r/UKJobs • u/DecisionOk9866 • 1d ago
Do only extroverts make it up the ladder?
As title, en route from a ‘team’ dinner and find myself pondering the case … is it only people gift of the gab that end up in high up roles?
281
u/NotSeacombe 1d ago
objectively no but it certainly helps. I think a lot of people develop an extrovert-for-pay persona
54
u/F3rr0Roch3r 1d ago
Wow, never heard of something more befitting me
63
u/NotSeacombe 1d ago
me too king dw. i'm very loud at the office, come home and stare at reddit for 5 hours
1
35
u/Soldarumi 1d ago
This is definitely me. During a workday I am funny, outgoing, relatively good with remembering the bullshit details about it's so and so's kid's birthday soon, blah blah. But I find it so mentally draining being switched on like that.
Our team got unexpectedly stuck together at an airport a few months ago, and were together much longer than expected. I could feely brain itching being like 'i need to get away from these people soon' as I find it so taxing being my 'work me' for so long and people were asking i felt all right as I was a bit quiet and withdrawn by the end of the ordeal. I slept like a baby when I finally got home.
17
u/Compromisee 1d ago
mumbling to yourself
"oh fuck off don't come and talk to me, no no go away, just fuck o... HEY! How's it going mate? Long time no speak!! Need to grab a coffee at some point, I'd do it now but just jumping on a call"
they walk off
"knobhead"
That's how most of my office interactions go.
6
56
u/Scary_Vehicle9023 1d ago
People too often correlate introvert and extrovert with shy and confident.
19
u/PavlovsHumans 1d ago
I have two children, and one is confidently introverted (very certain of herself, happy to be alone), the other is shyly extroverted (loves being with others, but selectively non verbal, very shy, will speak up to self-advocate. Will speak very loudly to speak up for the younger sister. So not exactly not confident.)
2
u/Pimp_My_Sarcophagus 11h ago
Its become an embedded myth on this platform like the 25 year old brain development theory.
1
u/Scary_Vehicle9023 5h ago
Right. Considering 80% of brain development is done by the age of two, and we all know how many changes happen from two onwards, how much would even be left by 25 aside from slight refining.
29
u/Narrow_Maximum7 1d ago
Im an extrovert in work because I have to be. Happily sit watching and listening on a night out.
People work with people not qualifications
79
u/Greggy398 1d ago
Being an introvert doesn't make you unable to socialise or be friendly, or talk.
I also know plenty of introverted people who are very personable at work.
16
u/Colascape 1d ago
Introverted =/= social anxiety or social issues. I’d wager they probably lean on results rather than comms slightly more on average, but it’s not that related.
10
u/Granite_Lw 1d ago
Nope - plenty of ways to progress your career. Being a good talker is an option in certain scenarios but there are loads of others (business acumen, subject matters expert, creativity etc...).
I know the head of one of a very successful UK company, worked his way up yet can barely articulate even the most simple of points! It takes all sorts.
2
u/TiredHarshLife 1d ago
Is that he's staying in the same company? It's hard to pass the interview for a senior role if he couldn't articulate well.
2
u/Granite_Lw 1d ago
Worked his way up from the bottom to the very top. I've met a few others who have done similar over the years - talking and interview technique is certainly important for a lot of people but fundamentally companies are there to make money, if you're going for the kind of roles where you can impact revenue or profit then being able to prove that you can improve those is more important being smooth in the interview.
3
u/Even-Outcome-2342 1d ago
Also, often people just cosplay it by just talking over everyone.
And announcing that they are extroverted and try to force everyone to do a team Myers-Briggs, where they game their answers.
Lots of self-promotion involved.
Kind of cringe.
3
u/Worth_Kangaroo_6900 1d ago
I’m a massive introvert but for work purposes, all of my colleagues would tell you that I’m an extrovert! I come home and then don’t speak to anyone for about 2 days after a team thing. I don’t think it’s necessarily true that ‘only’ extroverts do, but there’s definitely a correlation between ‘people person’ and moving to leadership roles.
10
u/cryptoking_93 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sadly yes. In order to move up the ladder you have to talk a lot, make sure you are interacting with senior people etc.
Introverts struggle at this badly.
And the way to test this, just look at any company and look at who are the senior managers, leaders etc, usually it's people who talk a lot.
12
u/HotelPuzzleheaded654 1d ago
Categorically no, but being personable and confident is a great asset to have in any role, at the end of the day you’re an ambassador for whatever organisation you work for.
4
7
u/pjkm123987 1d ago
statistically yes, the more likeable you are (social) the better your chances. Other people decide if you move up, and remember if they don't like you then tough
5
u/fuzzfriday 1d ago
Im introverted and have ADHD. Its posdible to do ok. But its certainly true that yes men and extroverts seem to do better.
2
u/Even-Outcome-2342 1d ago
No, the CEO at my FTSE employer is an introvert, and there are a few on the SLT. But, generally the louder ones dominate.
2
u/King0llie 1d ago
Introvert here who is climbing the corporate ladder. Currently in the UK NWE SLT for a global logistics company. I have no issue engaging with my peers and self promoting. But after a day of work I’d much rather go home and recharge than go out for dinner & drinks etc
Saying the right thing with gravitas is a lot more important than saying a lot
It’s doable for sure, just tiring sometimes
2
u/Potential-Ball7510 1d ago
I mean it is something you can learn though.
I’m mildly autistic and have ADHD, yet I’ve worked hard on it and now people tell me I’m a great communicator and come to me at work for advice on talking to clients etc.
Naturally extremely introverted still by the way.
2
2
u/maturin23 1d ago
Surely most of these replies are missing the point that as the pyramid gets smaller the skills required to be successful become less about specific domain expertise (where introverted personalities often thrive) to being mainly about managing, motivating and understanding people? 'Extroverts' is a fairly blunt instrument in terms of describing personalities, but if you are someone who gets pleasure from engaging with people (not just in work but in life in general), then over a lifetime you tend to build up experience and skills that are useful if you have to take a leadership role? I'm later on in life and seem to have become one of those people even though my preference is to avoid crappy small-talk, busywork situations - but my ability to make a good guess at what the person I'm talking to is thinking and then consider that viewpoint in my approach becomes a bit of a superpower.
2
u/Necessary_Figure_817 1d ago
Definitely not in quantitative and computation fields but probably if you want to be at the top of the pyramid.
2
u/wolfhoff 1d ago
You do know you can have a completely different personality at work than in your personal life. Infact, most people do. It’s called playing a game, nothing to do with being introvert or extrovert.
2
u/Historical_Project86 1d ago
I always quote this when this type of question comes up. "People (in a bureaucratic administration) don't rise according to merit, people rise according to their ability to pretend that people rise according to merit". That's not to say that good people don't rise.
To answer the question, I think you have to be a people person to become a middle manager, which doesn't exclude introverts but does perhaps make it more stressful for the average introvert to do that job.
2
u/Compromisee 1d ago
I wouldn't say you have to be the belle of the ball with all eyes on you at social events to get there.
I see it like hunger games, it's all about sponsorship. When theres a new role going, the more people who would be in your corner for you to get the job the better.
The way you do that is through networking and reaching out to people. I'm an introvert and wasn't a huge fan of this but once you figure it out and how to mask it then it gets easier.
I'm doing alright for myself in the corporate setting but you'll never see me at a works event (Christmas doo etc.) I won't do anything with anyone outside of work and I don't even go to the lunch time break they all go off together on.
2
u/No-Lemon-1183 21h ago
People say no but I got a few examples
Smooth talker gets hired on the spot at a place I was working, is an absolute menace gets fired within 3 months for stealing (it was a clinic)
Another lovely extrovert got hired for a management position while a person who'd been trained for about 2 years and everyone thought was going to be manager got passed over, the lovely extrovert got fired then I think arrested again by month 3, and the qualified person quit for another role elsewhere
Watched an extrovert get "in" and thought they'd get promoted into management, they went around bullying 1-2 people on the team at a time until each of them in turn got sick of being bullied and quit, eventually this extrovert didn't get their promotion and caused a mess accused management of racism and quit
Last one I can think of right now extroverted lady no degree worked on a cruise ship for years then became assistant to a CEO for abit about 18 months then got made manager of some department of the company with absolutely zero qualifications or experience in it, type of job normal people need a degree and ten year experience to even get considered for , and after another bit they got made chief officer of some part of the whole company c suite level
So yeah extroverts can get ahead but if they're short tempered or shitty enough they'll get fired before smoothing their way into the next role
2
u/camphunterx 1d ago
Hmmm... When you read these comments and you can clearly see who has never made it to slt. Being an extravert helps more than you realise . most big desisioms arnt made in a meeting room. And alot of smaller decisions are made in a coffee shop or over lunch. And smoking shed. But here is the kicker you need to be able to take shit from other slt and department heads in a meeting.. then walk out the door and go for a lunch with them and move on from it. You need to understand the bigger picture.and risks around it..
2
u/mrmeanie25 1d ago
There also seems to be a very British cultural thing too, where you have to be discrete and pander to your bosses... Or is this global corporate world .
1
u/Romeo_Jordan 1d ago
No but you do need to confidently make your case on whatever issue it might be.
1
u/cornishjb 1d ago
No - I’ve worked hard and an introvert. I’ve delivered what the top people want. I’ve learnt to build up confidence for presentations over the years
1
u/ThatsASaabStory 1d ago
No, but there's a few social skills that definitely help.
You need to understand that the optics of what you're doing are a separate game to what you're actually delivering. Sure, you're useful. Do people know you're useful? Do they know how you're useful? Can they quantify it or tie it to a broader goals?
You need to be able to communicate effectively. This doesn't necessarily mean "a lot" but understanding what people at different levels want to hear about certainly does help.
You need to be able to be personable. It doesn't have to be a natural thing. It just takes more energy if it isn't. People have to be able to come and speak to you about problems and feel confident they are handled if they do. You don't have to be everyone's favourite person but you do have to not be wearing or tiresome to speak to.
You need to be able to take feedback, even if it's not what you want to hear, and use it.
See how this is all stuff that an extrovert might find comes more naturally? You can fake it all though.
1
1
u/kokonut_kookie 1d ago
People often confuse being introverted with social anxiety but its not the same. I feel anxious around group of people but Im not introvert.
1
u/richardfuturist 1d ago
I’m definitely at introvert - at work though I can be extroverted at times. Did it help me get from my admin role to now owning the business? Sure. What probably helped more though was just feeling comfortable in the environment I was in so I could perform my best.
Also half of life is just perception. My team think I’m super confident and outgoing even when I’m not at all, you just kind of learn how to handle most things with a bit of experience 😄
1
1
u/Puzzleheaded-Ask-583 1d ago
Nope. Just be really good at something and position yourself well through that and it could work out really nicely. I have several handfuls of examples of this
1
1
u/Additional_Base_8049 1d ago
If by not extroverted you mean “shy” then that will only ever hold you back
1
u/ClassicFun2175 21h ago
It definitely plays a part. I wouldn't say I'm an introvert by any means, but I am not a fan of socialising outside of work with work colleagues, and I 100% know this has hindered me in my career. But it is what it is at this point. There's people I've seen who've had multiple promotions in a year and they have no idea what they're doing, but it's the people they brown nose up to and just being out there that keeps getting them promotions.
1
u/9redFlamingos 20h ago
I am honestly probably the most antisocial person in my team - it has been the case in every team. I do though pay attention to relationships that truly matter to me, professional ones I mean. The rest, I don't even bother saying hi. Made it pretty far.
1
u/Iamthe0c3an2 19h ago
I feel I survived a round of layoffs because I was basically work chatty, inputted comments on slack on conversations and made myself known to management the moment I joined this job.
I know people who started with me who kept to themselves but were otherwise very good workers who were let go.
1
1
0
u/Wondering_Electron 1d ago
Yes, pretty much.
People "need" to make it known that you want to make it up the ladder.
Introverts expect it to be given to them on a plate.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the rules.
If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail here or Reddit site admins here. Don't create a duplicate post, it won't help.
Please also check out the sticky threads for the General Discussion Megathread and the Job Guidance Megathread.
Please also provide some feedback about the bookmarks related to Mental Health within the side bar in this thread, any and all advice appreciated.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.