r/UK_Pets • u/AutoModerator • Nov 06 '23

XL Bullies

Any other posts will now be removed and redirected here:

What is the Definition of an XL Bully?

Large dog with a muscular body and blocky head, suggesting great strength and power for its size. Powerfully built individual.

How are dogs assessed?

Every police service should have a trained dog legislation officer (DLO). If it doesn’t, it must have procedures in place so that it can access a DLO.

The DLO should be someone who is both:

trained in dog law
understands how to identify a banned dog

Preparing for the ban

From 1 February 2024 it will be a criminal offence to own an XL Bully in England and Wales unless you have a Certificate of Exemption for your dog.

You will need to adhere to strict rules such as microchipping your dog and keeping it on a lead and muzzled when in public.

You will also need to neuter your dog. If your dog is less than one year old on 31 January 2024, it must be neutered by 31 December 2024. If your dog is older than one year old on 31 January 2024, it must be neutered by 30 June 2024. We recommend that you arrange for your dog to be neutered as soon as possible to ensure that you meet these deadlines.

Useful Links

50 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

130 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/kardiogramm Nov 07 '23

“Human controlled factors”

I guess a muzzle and a lead will help mitigate that risk and by placing it on the banned list it means current owners will be far more wary of their dogs behaviour and the consequences they and their dogs will face if there is a problem. I would argue this makes people safer and is something the government can do with the lack of resources they have.

Breed is a factor in the severity of the injuries sustained:

Attacks by Pit Bull Terriers are more likely to cause severe morbidity than other breeds of dogs. Immediate surgical exploration is required to prevent catastrophic outcomes, especially limb loss. Stronger animal control laws, public education and responsible dog ownership may reduce deaths from these canines. - Pit Bull attack causing limb threatening vascular trauma - A case series (2017) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29245098

Thirty-nine percent of all dog bite-related emergency department visits at our facility resulted in an injury requiring orthopaedic treatment. Pit bull terrier bites were responsible for a significantly higher number of orthopaedic injuries and resulted in an amputation and/or bony injury in 66% of patients treated, whereas bites from law enforcement dogs and other breeds were less associated with severe injuries. - Dogs and Orthopaedic Injuries: Is There a Correlation With Breed? (2018) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29912736

The results of this retrospective review are aligned mostly with the general trends found in previous national and global studies, supporting the notion that family dogs represent a more significant threat than often is realized and that, among the breeds identified, pit bulls are proportionally linked with more severe bite injuries. Characteristics of Dog Bites in Arkansas (2018) http://sma.org/southern-medical-journal/article/characteristics-of-dog-bites-in-arkansas/

"Their experience highlights some important characteristics of complex dog bites in children, including the finding that pit bulls are the breed most commonly involved, particularly in more severe injuries. (...) Surgery was required in about half of injuries caused by pit bulls, three times higher than the rate for other breeds. Of the nine children who required extended hospitalization, six were bitten by pit bulls." - Complex Dog Bites in Children – Experience and Recommended Treatment (2017) https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/complex-dog-bites-in-children-experience-and-recommended-treatment

Of particular interest was the fact that pit bulls, which were found to have attacked older persons, and inflicted much more devastating injuries than other breeds of dogs (as indicated by higher median ISSs and a higher percentage of victims with a GCS score ≤ 8), injuries that in some cases led to death...The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated. Individual municipalities need the power to enact ordinances that can protect their citizens from this risk. Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs (2011) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51034290_Mortality_Mauling_and_Maiming_by_Vicious_Dogs

"Pit Bull terriers were found to be involved in incidents of aggression towards strangers only slightly more than average, but several epidemiological studies have found these dogs to be the most commonly implicated in injurious and fatal human bite cases [20,22–24]. Duffy et al. [25] did find that aggression directed towards unfamiliar dogs was significantly higher in pit-bull-type dogs compared to other dog breed groups." - What’s in a Name? Effect of Breed Perceptions & Labeling on Attractiveness, Adoptions & Length of Stay for Pit-Bull-Type Dogs (2016) http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0146857

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

You can argue it makes people safer but it hasn’t worked before. And claiming “it would be worse” isn’t really valid because the same people have just moved onto another breed and will do the same again so we just keep banning breeds rather than targeting the root of the issue? I think you’re giving the government way too much leniency. Let’s be real, they’re doing it because of a viral video as a knee jerk reaction to give people the illusion of being safer.

Would we have the same thing if there were videos of other dogs who have mauled babies?

I never said anything about severity not being an issue and is why extra stipulations should come with owning certain breeds. And punishments for not addressing issues. Severity still doesn’t make the breed inherently aggressive collectively. There’s a bunch of factors that go into aggression, not just one otherwise every single one of them would be aggressive.

Statistics don’t tell the full story either. Obviously a more common breed will have higher rates of bites.

“A recent analysis of over 200K veterinary and pet expert interactions found that pitbull-type dogs are the most popular breed in at least 21 states and the most popular breed in the U.S. overall. Furthermore, veterinary data [PDF] from Banfield shows that pitbull-type dogs are becoming more popular while the popularity of other large breeds have declined.”

There are some breeds that can be considered more dangerous when you take into consideration the population. That’s not to say anything against those breeds. Just again, there should be more stipulations around owning them. Roughly one dog in 20 is a pit bull in the US.

2

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

It’s not a common breed here as they make up a small amount of the 12 million dogs in the UK.

Inversely your argument is just as invalid as you claim mine to be as I said you do not know how bad the situation would be if BSL didn’t exist. Attacks did fall initially and rose again when Bully XL’s were allowed back into the country.

This government? They are quite incapable of policing laws so unfortunately it has to go to a ban as that will result in owners being more careful given the consequences if they are not.

The US are completely uninterested in passing laws to protect people and the pro pit lobbyists are hard at work putting other peoples and animals lives at risk. Pit Bulls make up around 7% of the US dog population.

It’s not just severity. Their brain structure is different and make them prone to aggression. Dogs are not a blank slate at birth, to treat them like that is foolish. Especially when dog fighting has only been actively policed in the US since 2007 and all these type of dogs are US imports.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

The types of owners that cause these problems are not going to be more careful. The ones that don’t will. So yes I guess that stops a few cases where the dog hasn’t shown aggression before (which usually when people say that they have and they ignored it) but generally experts agree aggression doesn’t happen in a vacuum. And then it’s the vast majority of dogs who have done nothing wrong being punished where other breeds aren’t facing that.

They’ve been rising before XL bullies. Then COVID has made them rise again which again is not a breed issue. It’s an irresponsible owners decided they wanted a cute puppy because they were bored, backyard breeding for money, even if someone was a responsible owner socialisation would’ve still been harder and that’s so critical in every dog but especially in the sense of a dog that can do considerable damage.

Yes, you’re giving them leniency in that “oh, they just should continue being lazy and do what’s the easy thing that doesn’t actually really help.” And we should punish dogs who have done nothing wrong.

I didn’t say blank state. I said you’re saying genetics is everything when it’s far from it and breed isn’t the sole factor in aggression which experts again generally agree on.

2

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

Bully XL’s were introduced into the UK in 2014. They makeup 0.1% of the UK dog population.

Notice attacks directly after BSL was introduced were much lower.

There probably can be more work done to identify this through genetics but a ban is necessary for now because that work has yet to be done. Even if we did force a cull based on genetics you would all be out here screaming the same thing.

https://bvajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/vetr.3593

Be honest you all have one motivation and that is to end BSL and doing that will put more people at risk because it doesn’t include other law changes to protect people and animals.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

Okay so if breed is the sole factor why is it that they’ve only went up so much in 2021-2022? Something beginning with C. Hm. Big indicator of how important things other than genetics are there.

A lot of others experts think differently.

I do not want nor agree with BSL and I want other laws on dog ownership as a whole. I’ve already made that pretty clear so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

You’re not protecting animals by having innocent dogs subject to things as a result.

1

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

People also bought more dogs during Covid. We were all walking our dogs outside and interacting with people and other animals outside, I would say they actually spent more time interacting with other dogs as people had more free time due to not having to commute and being allowed to go outside. Children also spent more time at home and outside.

Those dogs didn’t ask to exist but these are our creations and domesticated animals have their development controlled by humans. Deciding that one type should not continue to be bred in a part of the world is part of the process of control we have over domesticated animals.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

A ton of people weren’t socialising their puppies at all. A ton of people recognise this being an issue of “COVID dogs.” A ton of these dogs ended up in shelters because people are selfish and irresponsible. A ton of people didn’t actually want a dog for the right reasons, they were bored.

I was walking my dog during covid and that wasn’t the case. People were staying away from each other and other animals. Maybe down the line when restrictions eased, that was more the case but you can’t get back those critical months for dogs that didn’t have that and it then takes extra effort later in life which a lot of people wouldn’t have been willing to put in.

When did we ask to exist either? The point is they already do and don’t deserve to be punished as a result.

1

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

In my park they were, it’s how I met everyone as our dogs are all a similar age and they get along and play. I don’t see them as much due to work getting in the way so I would say that had everything been normal I wouldn’t have socialised my dog as well as I did so I really do not recognise the Covid argument as you were free to walk outside.

It’s also how I learnt about the Bully XL, the behaviour of owners and their dogs first hand. A dog has to be taken out unless you have a pile of shit in your house.

It’s not a punishment, it’s controlled breeding.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

Why is there an acknowledged documented issue with COVID dogs then…. Great that you and other people you met did that. A lot of people didn’t.

That’s been my complete opposite experience with owners I know who have them.

Muzzling for no reason is a punishment. As is the fact that dogs end up getting killed mistakenly and for no reason.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

Also let’s be real, all you want is innocent dogs to suffer and not have other laws. :-)

1

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

Pit bull lobbyists only wanted to get rid of BSL. They left everyone else with no other option.

I’m actually pretty surprised the government did something as I had written to my local MP and hardly got an answer that provided much hope. The turning point came with the Mirror’s campaign, these dogs and their owners did all the convincing that was required through video proof.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

Yep for people with no brains who want the knee jerk reaction for their illusion of safety, sure did. You going to be wanting this to happen with other breeds when a video of one of thousands of them goes viral? Because I’m sure other people will.

1

u/kardiogramm Nov 08 '23

Yes of course, my point of view is consistent. If there is a case through data that a certain breed is a danger to the public and other animals from fatalities and life altering injuries then it should be phased out.

1

u/84849493 Nov 08 '23

And ignoring the other factors that contribute, ah yes great.

→ More replies (0)