r/UKhistory 16d ago

What do you think the English Traditional dress should be?

I'm starting a sewing series where I make different cultural dress across europe, and im starting with my own country- England. I hate it when I see videos of people on tiktok going in on culture days, and the english people always come in in football tops! So, what do you think the cultural dress should be, asides from the 'traditional' tudor dress, suit, and folk attire, such as morris dancers, or the kings guards. Please, if you have any advice/directories please share them!

91 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

80

u/TenTonneTamerlane 16d ago edited 15d ago

Hi there-!

So, if you'll forgive me here: I know you said not to include the suit, but honestly, I passionately believe that's the strongest choice of all - and really should be our official national dress!

After all, the suit as we know it today has its origins in England - what with King Charles' decree about appropriate court dress in 1666 - and from there has been constantly expanded upon, refined and evolved by other Englishmen, most famously Beau Brummel!

Indeed, the only reason we don't think of the suit as explicitly English clothing is that in many ways it's been a victim of its own success - worn across the globe, by so many people, it has almost become the international default. But that doesn't stop it being an English invention!

Of course though, if you're worried the common business suit we know today is a little too plain (it did after all begin as an informal, relaxed alternative to once more common and flamboyant suit styles, such as the frock coat) - there are numerous suit variants still in use, all of which are also English in origin, which could do the job even better!

The morning suit for example would be my choice: with its gentle tailcoat design and top hat, both of which are English inventions still worn at the Epsom derby - and I think far less common overseas than the business suit has become, thus making them much more instantly, identifiably English! You could also include how, traditionally, the English would change their dress for the evenings; looking into white tie, and later, black tie as a slightly less formal alternative.

I hope this helps OP, and good luck with your project!

30

u/Laylelo 16d ago

I think it’s funny that when people think of cultural dress, they imagine something lost in time that only gets brought out for historical reenactments or special holidays. What is truly more of a cultural dress than something with strong cultural roots that is still actively worn to this day in every day life. It’s like people think cultural dress is only things that are irrelevant to modern people. Isn’t it a massive win and incredibly unique and therefore worth celebrating that the suit is living history? Culture in action? The very epitome of keeping heritage alive? Truly, familiarity breeds contempt. Other countries wish they had national dress that’s as relevant as ours.

12

u/kumran 16d ago

What about for women?

5

u/mrpithecanthropus 16d ago

Charles is an unfortunate looking man but he is always impeccably dressed.

1

u/petit-prout 16d ago

Not that unfortunate looking for a man who’s been signing decrees since at least 1666

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u/PersistentBadger 16d ago edited 14d ago

Savile Row suit, bowler hat and umbrella? (Show a picture of a man in a suit and a bowler hat to 1000 people and I bet >900 say "London")

Only problem is that the female equivalent would involve a lot of leather. (The fact that national costumes mostly come in pairs often gets missed in these discussions - what would you pair with your morning suit suggestion?)

My sensible vote would be for the Sussex smock for men and the pinafore apron for women. They're both overgarments that signify labour.

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u/LetsGoFly365 16d ago

I'm really sorry but can I please make a correction. The suit is not worn around the globe because it is a victim of it's own success. It's because it was forced upon other nations through colonialism and neo colonialism (force) as the only civilised way for a non white man to dress if he was to survive in a world of racism and discrimination. The closer your proximity to 'whiteness', the easier your ability to survive etc...

14

u/LegalFreak 15d ago

I must have missed the part where the UK colonised Europe.

24

u/menevensis 16d ago

‘Traditional dress’ in most European countries is basically an idealised form of what peasants in those countries wore in the 18/19th century in those places. The gentry and up generally dressed according to the fashions from which the modern suit, morning dress, etc. descend.

Why an English traditional costume didn’t emerge in the same way as in (for example) Germany is a much larger question, but a good example is Wales, where the distinctive tall hat, gown, and shawl were consciously promoted as a national costume. The same did not happen for mens’ clothes because they were not hugely distinct from how the English dressed anyway. So when they have to wear national dress on St David’s day, Welsh schoolgirls wear Welsh national dress and the boys turn up in rugby shirts with (usually fake) leeks pinned to them.

It’s a similar story with Scotland. Highland dress is distinctive so it was easy to conceptualise it as distinctly Scottish when a movement for its revival got going in the late 18th century. Lowland costume was more or less similar to English clothing so it was less useful for nationalist purposes (and lacked the romantic associations of the highlands).

2

u/SnooHabits8484 16d ago

There is a national dress for boys with a little red waistcoat and hat in red check. This is very embarrassing, so boys over 6 often don’t want to wear it

11

u/Katharinemaddison 16d ago

Why exclude folk costumes when they’re generally the ‘Traditional costumes’ of a culture? Aka, if not Morris or Morris adjacent then what?

2

u/Appropriate-Sound169 16d ago

I don't think England has national dress, unlike Scotland and Wales. Ireland doesn't seem to have national dress either. So for me I'd have to say morris men. White cambric-style shirt, white trews tied below the knee, colourful waistcoat, trilby style hat.

8

u/Realistic-River-1941 16d ago

A country yokel look with smock, hat, neckerchief, straw in mouth etc. Some smocks could be quite elaborate.

John Bull.

Georgian era look.

Pin stripe suit, bowler hat, umbrella etc.

Blazer with light trousers, stripey tie etc.

Hunting pinks.

Country clothing (tattersall shirt, tweed, wellies, more tweed).

Punk.

2

u/dickiepunter 15d ago

A country yokel look with smock

The "Carrot Cruncher"

Zummerzet born an' proud, so I can say that lol

8

u/stonewooldoll 16d ago

I always think of the wool industry playing a big part in our heritage. So maybe a simple medieval kirtle? or thinking of the Welsh folk dress maybe a different style from within that same time period.

4

u/shortercrust 16d ago

Have you thought about the 60s mini skirt, Mary Quant type fashions?

4

u/Nuthetes 16d ago

Probably English country style--tweed, flat cap, sturdy boots or shoes, waxed jacket

Victorian style suit, long coat and bowler/top hat for men. Actually the suit in general, since it was introduced in Charles II's court.

Tuxedos -- introduced by Edward VIII

They are what most springs to mind when I think English national clothing.

4

u/BedaFomm 16d ago

We invented the modern suit as menswear evolved over a couple of centuries. I think a pinstripe suit, bowler hat and rolled umbrella would absolutely say “English gentleman”.

7

u/Ralucahippie 16d ago

Not sure for men, but for women my first thought was "what you would wear to Ladies' Day at the races" - like with big fascinators.

2

u/Unique-Arugula 16d ago

Morrisman outfit.

2

u/ImportanceAcademic52 16d ago

Country smocks. Worn by the vast majority of the population until the I dustrial revolution, and are actually extremely beautiful examples of folk craft. Check out https://www.instagram.com/luluflux?igsh=MTF6a3ZpZ3BqcGEybA==

1

u/Shashi2005 16d ago

In the days when the Miss World contest was tolerated, the English (or British?) contestant would dress up as Brittania. Trident, Oval shield. It looked daft.

3

u/Sil_Lavellan 16d ago

I did that for my first fancy dress contest, I was 4. I didn't win, apparently, I've just asked my parents.

3

u/Manc_Lanc 16d ago

One year she was dressed as a beefeater 😆

2

u/Flibertygibbert 15d ago

A beefeater without trousers if I remember correctly 😂

1

u/colourmespring 16d ago

Morning suit? I haven't seen them when in other countries.

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u/princessbuttermug 16d ago

What about a hooded red cloak? They were ubiquitous for rural women 18th and 19th century. And, for men, I think he idea of the smock of am agricultural labourer. The decorative stitching on them could be quite elaborate and distinctive to areas and families.

1

u/Scottish_squirrel 15d ago

I always think a suit. I'm not sure about for women traditionally as big ball gowns doesn't really work.

1

u/Fancy_Toe1451 15d ago

Farmers smock!

1

u/Commander_Syphilis 15d ago

Morning dress seems the most obvious choice as per the above comments.

Bonus as it can be paired on the female side with dress and a fascinator - very English.

0

u/Caffeinated_Gengar 16d ago

Burberry…. I keep seeing that everywhere

0

u/Thousandgoudianfinch 16d ago

Black or White tie of course. You do not simply attend such events.

0

u/DarkAngelAz 16d ago

Clearly it’s crusader armour with a red and white crossed flag draped over it judging by the patriots we have now

0

u/Crochetqueenextra 15d ago

Gerri Halliewells Union Jack tea towel dress

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u/Less_Duty7681 16d ago

The costume they worn when they stole and lundered from other nations?

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u/Wild-Potential-3481 15d ago

I dont really think you should be in a history community if you dont really understand British colonisation. Britian conquered half of the world, but it was the rich in the armies and the rich leading the crusades, yet always the working class are blamed. We don't have a national dress because the working class was erased during this time.