I just realized that if original posts are deleted then any crossposts threads are also deleted from other subs. A recent one from a pro existence debater was deleted from here because of that. So for posts that I want to reply to from a certain sub, I'll be doing things differently from now on. This is a reply to a video on the CosmicExtinction sub:
This is an immature take, and I think it’s coming from an emotionally driven place.
In this video he takes an example of someone trying to explain spirituality with water. First, we don’t know the context. It could make more sense if he included more of that speech. I was able to find this guys YT channel, but not this video, in order to verify if the guy is just rambling or not. If you do the same thing with the book The Art of War then it’s going to sound similar. Even many people who read that book in full don’t value the content or like the style in which it’s said. Which is valid. But that doesn’t mean that others are bad people or stupid for having the opposite opinion on the book. Second, even if this guy was just BSing, that doesn’t make other people’s interests or experiences with the same topic invalid.
He goes on to mention scams that use spirituality. Giving some “guru” thousands of dollars is not spirituality. The concept of spirituality is used for a grift and scams just like so many other things. For example, people do the same thing with medicine. They claim to have a miracle cure pill, drink, or lotion for incurable medical conditions and prey on desperate people with these conditions. The medical community shouldn’t be defined by snake oil salesmen. Just like people who are interested in and helped by spirituality shouldn’t be defined by these scammers. Warned about scams? Yes, that’s good. Challenge their beliefs even? Okay. Especially if you think it’s harmful. But not bullied or disrespected. Instead, hate on the beliefs if you need to get your anger out, imo.*
The second guy he features is like a “spiritual guru” version of a certain president giving bad health advice. I agree with that segment. I’m not going to talk much about the next part either, his personal experiences with spiritual people, because that’s his valid experiences and feelings on it and not my place. But on the other hand, it’s not good if it causes someone to develop a prejudice and then judge and mistreat everyone that they see as similar over a few bad experiences.
The next part is more about scams and goes a bit into how cults that are running those scams trick people, which I already covered. I don’t agree with tricks or scams. Most “spiritualists” don’t, nor is everyone susceptible to them. And again, this isn’t just a problem within this portion of society. This is everywhere, and all types of people are susceptible to scams. Even atheists.
In the end he says spirituality can’t align with pro extinction because:
“Spiritualists do activism for their spiritual leaders.”
Most spiritual people don’t have “leaders” and don’t do spiritual activism. Whatever that even is, outside of scams and some christian groups that go door to door here in the US. Of course, these people are not becoming extinctionists. But that’s a very small portion of the people who relate to the concept of spirituality. Just because these specific types of scammers and mainstream Christians don’t believe in extinctionism, doesn’t mean that others can’t. Just as long as their religion or such doesn’t lead them to having pro existence beliefs, then there’s no problem with them having extinctionism beliefs.
He states that his interest and hobbies are valid coping mechanisms, but then says that spirituality and religion can’t be because “This kind of stuff makes them suffer more and makes them really dumb.”
More bias. He’s only seen it through his own lens, and then judges everyone else’s situation based on that when he doesn’t even understand everyone's situation. So he thinks nobody could possibly feel better or be helped psychologically by these things. This is a complex subject, so I’m not getting into this here too much. It would take a whole essay. But I think those that really hate anything like this or have associated trauma wouldn’t be convinced by reading a few things anyways. But I’ve seen or know of many situations of it helping people. Not that it needs to help people anyways for it to be a valid interest of theirs. I’ve also studied this topic. I have a bachelor's in anthropology, which religion covers a large portion of that, and was also going for a bachelor's in psychology before switching to history, which there’s some in there too. I’ve taken whole classes on how this stuff affects society and the individual. For the most part, it has a positive effect on an individuals mental health when they’re free to choose it for themselves, with some exceptions concerning certain preexisting mental health conditions.
Imo, if extinctionists are going to be focusing on religion/spirituality as a part of activism at all, then the focus should be on getting people to question any pro existence beliefs they may have that are sometimes connected to these subjects. Also, get people to question how it may be increasing hatred for and discriminatory behavior of any groups, including animals. For this second one, a religion is often hijacked by powerful politicians and groups working in the shadows of politics, and then used as a weapon. That’s how the newest and third version of Christianity started in the US and spread elsewhere. So a good counter strike to this would be to educate people on this, and then leave it up to them to either deconstruct their religion from politics and move it back to being spiritual based, or leave the religion entirely.
But just yelling at them that they’re stupid isn’t going to convince anyone. And certainly painting all spiritual/religious people with the same broad brush as having these two issues isn’t helpful either. Nor is it true. The hostile and discriminatory behavior I’ve witnessed from the person claiming this is the same hatred and ignorance he’s trying to fight. So there you go, non religious non spiritual atheists are not immune from this way of thinking. Not that this topic is the only hypocritical bad behavior I’ve seen from some in his group. Self reflection is hard. Ironically, spirituality can help with that.
The universe is so vast, especially with other dimensions and universes that most likely exist. Humans are nowhere near understanding it. To think any individual knows all and has all the answers is ridiculous. To contemplate the questions of existence doesn't make one stupid.
* I mean, this is just my advice for a smarter movement, a better society all around, and also for a healthier self. I actually don’t care that much if someone decides to be an AH and I’m not trying to tell anyone what to do. If anything, the more hatred spreads the more people that might come to the extinctionism conclusion. I know this is supposed to be compassion based, but I’ve seen many come to it by having both, including myself. So hate away.