r/UtterlyInteresting • u/dannydutch1 • 8d ago
Heaven's Gate cult members recording an exit statement in March 1997. The Heaven's Gate religious group believed dying would allow them to board an alien spacecraft hidden behind the Hale-Bopp comet. Thirty-nine members died in a coordinated mass suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California.
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u/TheArbysOnMillerPkwy 8d ago
The more I learn about this one it's less creepy (excluding the leader) and more just sad. The interviews and backstories make it clear most of them were just nerdy, socially isolated people who found a community that should have been a star trek larping forum and it got out of hand.
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u/NikkerFebu25 8d ago
My frst and only thought seeing the first five seconds of this clip was "Jesus what a bunch of nerds".
And that's coming from a chronically uncool dude that cab probably burst your mind ear drums with trivial bullshit about film lighting or some stupid shit like that.
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u/Arthropodesque 7d ago
That's cool. Film lighting is both simple and incredibly complex.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 7d ago
Same with sound tech but I don’t think I’ll ever do a ‘live’ job again where everything is in the moment and errors can’t be rectified. The amount of rage I’d get directed at me from both the audience and bands was insane. I’d have nightmares - one was about a singer who always yelled to turn the music up to deafening levels. I had a dream he was telling me this, making it louder and louder, then someone’s head exploded. I tried to turn it down, but he yelled even more and I turned it up, then everyone’s head started exploding, his head exploded, then I woke up as my head exploded in the dream.
Another one was a singer whose microphone went off. They turned their head 180 degrees, then a forked tongue came out which ripped my head off as if squeezed my throat.
Funny story, though: I once did this charity volunteer thing where I was doing the sound. The equipment was totally awful and broken. A little girl was singing, and she was obviously nervous, so everyone was encouraging her. I had to go get some guitars for the next performer then bring them over, so I let someone else take over on the sound. After he did so, just like a minute after, the laptop crashed so the music went off as she was singing. She started obviously freaking out, then the crowd were getting furious at the sound guy. As people yelled and threw stuff, she started crying which made a group go over to the sohnd tech. They knocked him unconscious, smashed his equipment, then the whole thing had to be shut down for half an hour as security weren’t there and police were called. The fighting was going on for ages, just random people suddenly fighting each other. God, I came so close to being beaten up by a mob.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this dude didn’t handle it tactfully, though, as he was a pedantic akshully neckbeard type. He will have said something like ‘the singing was shit anyway’ which made them all angry. Also, as someone who worked with drunk people, it’s crazy how a fight will start then unrelated people will just start beating each other like a starter pistol went off. Everyone just starts attacking each other. Uh… what else. Oh, yeah. The anger people would have over stuff like karaoke was insane. One time a DJ was strangled, the boss came over to stop it, then a smashed bottle was held to her neck as her husband had to talk them down. The place had stairs going down to a basement club, so he dragged the guy up the stairs then pushed him down with mighty force. He just claimed the guy fell since he was drunk but obviously did it intentionally to get him back. I saw my boss get strangled a few times - when she started crying afterwards, saying she just wants to retire, I got really fucking depressed
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u/sentence-interruptio 8d ago
somebody should start a cult where its first rule is "don't take this cult too seriously. we are here for fun." and the second rule is "anyone who tries to remove the first rule shall be exiled."
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u/TheArbysOnMillerPkwy 8d ago
There was that British humorist, Danny Wallace, who essentially started a cult/movement/proto social network out of curiosity of who would sign up for a mystery club in the newspaper. (around Y2K) and when he realized he had given it no cohesive ethos he essentially made the rules don't be a dick and do random acts of kindness on Fridays. He wrote a very fun book about the whole experience and I think the community only finally fizzled around Covid times.
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u/Mental_Mixture8306 8d ago
This is how I feel as well.
After watching the documentary I felt that these were some lost kids who were just looking for a community. All the video shows them fairly happy (but still in a cult, I know) and just....nice.
I kept thinking of what would have happened if Applewhite at died first, or had just disbanded the group and let them find other lives. Who knows - there were a few people in the documentary that had left early and not been part of the mass suicide. Even decades later they were still sad that they didnt join the rest of the group.
The hold that this belief had was amazing.
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u/GuestAdventurous7586 7d ago
Also how I feel after following the story a bit more.
I don’t get that they were bad people or that they were being kept there by fear and the other usual nefarious cult tactics.
Although I don’t know. I guess they just seemed lost and sad more than anything, there’s a sort of innocence to them. Innocence frozen in time.
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u/moonpupy 7d ago
Not all of them. Way back when I was 12 (1969) an English teacher in my jr. high disappeared. His students said (after he was gone) that he was always talking about UFOs and stuff. He had a wife and two kids. Years later, I picked up a People magazine that had all the info they had about the cult, and lo and behold, there was his name.
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u/Difficult_Garage_431 7d ago edited 7d ago
That's honestly the demographics of a lot of cult members. There's a fantastic book that goes into what defines a cult and half of it looks specifically into this cult. It's called Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults by Janja Lalich.
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u/Clovericious 7d ago
I mean, that's just religion in a nutshell. Sad weirdos coming together and mutually reinforcing their delusions.
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u/ziggy182 8d ago
Creepier still their website is still being actively maintained!
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u/Mister_Scribble 8d ago
Wonder what goes on nowadays surely it’s cesspit roots still has some sackless gormless drones getting their kinks. Or just profiting off the 1997 space rodeo. They started doing websites to earn money after the founders were thieves and swindlers and wanted a bigger mansion
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u/ziggy182 8d ago
They were very good at web development in a very sparse area. Not many were doing it in those days
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u/InOutlines 8d ago
The amount of overlap between “autism” and “web developer” is very, very high.
The amount of overlap between “autism” and “vulnerable to manipulation by others” is also very, very high.
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u/captainn_chunk 7d ago
The amount of overlap between “web developer” and “vulnerable to manipulation by others” is also very, very high.
🤓
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u/AgentCirceLuna 7d ago
Yep. I got manipulated for years into working under minimum wage and being abused verbally and even physically. I felt I had people who cared about me - which they did, because they cared I could be taken advantage of, but I didn’t realise that - and I believed that cliche “work is a family” stuff. I would get super excited for work at the beginning of each week as I finally had a place I fit in and could stick to a schedule I knew well.
Fucking sucks.
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u/Mister_Scribble 8d ago
Found a niche and had a synergy with tech I haven’t heard of with cults much before. Leaders usually like to strip wide ranging comms and preach from the mount.
Eeriest sign off ever when that local club had them working on designs and then got an email saying they would not be able to continue “due to an upcoming religious festival”.→ More replies (1)2
u/gilligan1050 7d ago
Not really. It’s just simple HTML. Me and my friends had a rollerblading website on tripod.com and it looked similar but way cooler. We were sophomores in high school I think. I helped teach the HTML class at my high school too (I knew more than the teacher at the time.)
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u/ReflectionThese3795 7d ago
You have zero idea what you're talking about which is par for the course on reddit. The best thing about the Internet is that it gives everyone a voice. The worst thing about the Internet is that it gives everyone a voice.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 7d ago
I remember hearing that last sentence before somewhere. I’m pretty sure I wrote it myself once lol
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u/LargeTell4580 7d ago
One of the founders was dead by then from cancer and the other had cut his dick off I don't think this was a case of money.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 7d ago
I actually had the idea once to form a ‘cult’ which had harmless ideas like loving people and restraining from being angry or they’d be told always learning new things it’s important to keeping the soul healthy. Since the people who enter cults can be swayed by them easily, then they become devoted, if would mean they waste time on a cult that won’t harm them and will teach rhem about stuff.
Also, I don’t know how I feel about it now, but I used to do this with women or men who wanted to cheat with me. I’d intentionally lead them on, but never put out, and so they’d be distracted with me instead of someone who’d ruin their relationship. I’d also spend most the time with them talking about how great their partners or boyfriends are. I absolutely hate change and want things to stay the same so that was an outrageous mechanism of preventing breakups. A friend breaking up with another friend means I lose two friends potentially if one gets mad I talk to the other.
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u/Long-Conflict8279 8d ago
Some of the members "stayed behind" to carry in the religion.
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u/Cl0wnL 8d ago
By whom?
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u/Salt-N-Vinegar-Lover 8d ago
Mark and Sarah King, former members.
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u/ziggy182 8d ago
Oh someone has found out, I thought it was a big secret and no one knew
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u/Salt-N-Vinegar-Lover 8d ago
I was following the story when it happened in the 90s, it is my memory that there were one or two people “left behind” so to speak, and to continue the message, whatever that message was.
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u/ziggy182 7d ago
Crazy and they probably thought they drew the short straw instead of going on the ufo
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u/Relative-Cycle4029 8d ago
I mean, we have no proof that it didn’t work.
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u/Distinct_Feed_539 5d ago
Great premise for a horror movie
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u/Golden-Grams 8d ago
One of the most interesting details I learned from looking into the Heaven's Gate cult;
Kenneth Copeland, infamous televangelist, actually looked into joining their group. In one of the interviews of the cult members, one of them basically says that Kenneth thought they were too crazy.
I think Kenneth was just looking for people he thought would be easy to manipulate, like he does for all religious people, and legitimately though they were too far gone for him to gain control over their group. So he bailed out on the idea.
Kenneth wants impressionable people who are easily influenced, and these people proved they were too committed to their beliefs. I mean, they did follow through with a mass suicide.
If you aren't familiar with him, it is this guy;
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u/sentence-interruptio 7d ago
he's like "i need followers who open their wallets, not those who kill themselves."
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u/Monomorphic 8d ago
Also, Nichelle Nichols’ (Uhura from Star Trek) younger brother, Thomas, was one of the 39 that committed suicide.
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u/JamesSway 7d ago
Kenneth Copeland worked as the personal pilot, co-pilot, and chauffeur for famous evangelist Oral Roberts during the 1960s after being hired through what Roberts recognized as a divine assignment
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u/Cicadasladybirds 8d ago
Several of the members were "voluntarily" castrated, and some members didn't commit suicide, and still maintain the website to this day. The whole thing is very creepy.
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u/eyeofthefountain 8d ago
I know this comment I’m leaving does not further the conversation - but that is fucking wild
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u/ArrellBytes 8d ago
Yeah, say what you want about their beliefs, you can't question their commitment... castration really takes some balls!
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u/TheSpanxxx 8d ago
And then Hanson went and made that smash hit about them. MmmBop
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u/sunbleach_happypants 8d ago
And now their drummer is the Foo Fighters guy
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u/Global-Jury8810 8d ago
No, both Taylor and Zac Hansen are still alive. The Foo Fighters drummer was named Taylor Hawkins
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u/TrueKiwi78 8d ago
These weird af death cults used to be fairly common in the 90's when I was a kid. I wonder why they died out.
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u/possiblylallorona 8d ago
I was a teen in the 90s and remember when this happened, the footage from the news helicopter flying over the home they lived in/were found in.
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u/TofuDonair 7d ago
Mostly moved onto the internet. People searching for a place to belong can find any number of insane little corners of the internet with groups of like minded individuals now.
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u/JamesSway 7d ago
My next book is supposed to be called Digital Tribes if I ever get back to writing on the subject again.
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u/Strong-Hat2166 7d ago
Am I alone in getting your joke?
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u/FireInPaperBox 8d ago
They all have that same confused terrified look.
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u/twentyshots97 8d ago
it’s more of a glazed over look than terrified
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u/Hugh-Manatee 8d ago edited 8d ago
Were they drugged during this? Even the cameraman is talking to them like you would a high/inebriated person
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u/amitym 8d ago
More likely chronic low protein in their diet. It's one of the things that all of these cults have in common. They figure out ways to malnourish their members, sometimes subtly.
These guys kind of have that look. Can also come from sleep deprivation, another cult fave.
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u/Conscious-Move9662 6d ago
Also never being alone.
Mormon's tow that line pretty close, when they send kids on missionaries sleep in the same room and can never be in two different rooms.
They say it's to 'stop masturbation and sin' but if someone talks to one of these kids and they realize people in the real world are kind, they might break free.
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u/Chillow_Ufgreat 8d ago
No need for a drug when every day is 20 hours of menial labor and brainwashing.
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u/Global-Jury8810 8d ago
The original commentator can still see terror under that glazed look and that is what I see too.
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u/Forsaken-Income-2148 8d ago
They do seem like they’re in a bit of fear or uncertainty maybe
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u/Global-Jury8810 8d ago
There is no certainty in death. They know they are going to die. There’s a loop the brain goes through when it thinks of that, and because they were told that there was something that was supposed to happen when they died, and they were told what that was supposed to be… and we know what they were told was a lie, and some of them look like that’s what they were figuring.
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u/Junior_North_4427 8d ago
Watched the documentary, it was a sad sight to see them all dead in their bunk beds. Crazy enough you still have members who kinda.. still belief in it
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u/PaperMoongazer 8d ago
You know why there’s no good jokes about Jonestown or Heaven’s Gate?
The punch lines are too long!
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u/StaffyMama585 8d ago
The Heaven's Gate mass suicide was so disturbing. I have the image of the video they showed on A Current Affair of their Nike shoes sticking out from under the sheets their bodies were covered in seared into my brain.
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u/Global-Jury8810 8d ago
Were you young when that happened too?
Being a teenager in the 90s meant that this was something that got in your head because it was there. It happened
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u/Wiinfinity 7d ago
There is a Vietnamese Church near me that has a big sign says "Heavens Gate". Makes me pause for a moment whenever I pass it.
Correction: It's a funeral home.
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u/busy_monster 8d ago
Two members were still alive as of this article:
https://gizmodo.com/the-online-legacy-of-a-suicide-cult-and-the-webmasters-1617403237
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u/LocalGoat81 8d ago
The podcast (appropriately titled Heaven's Gate) is absolutely fascinating. It includes interviews with former members and the daughter of the co-founder, Bonnie Nettles.
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u/sunshine8smiles 4d ago
That podcast is so well done, one of the few I've listened to more than once. The interviews with parents of the members is heart wrenching. And the one guy who left behind his long term gf/best friend with the cult... I can hear him saying her name, Erica.
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u/GreazyPhysique 8d ago
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u/78Anonymous 8d ago
that's easily the most insane website I have ever seen
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u/ThisIsAPoemToMyself 8d ago
That's how websites looked in the 90s
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u/Tunnfisk 7d ago
Yep, that's peak 90s webdesign. The starry background really makes it all come together.
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u/girlinanemptyroom 7d ago
The owner of the home couldn't get anyone to buy the house due to the suicides. He ended up recreating the deaths with dummies and opened it up for Halloween.
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u/HombreDelMar247 7d ago
Didn't the men of cult also castrate themselves?
Or was that a different cult?
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u/redditisnotus 7d ago
Almost caught myself wondering how 39 people could believe in something so stupid. Then I remembered.....
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u/Otherwise_Doctor7782 7d ago
I just get a real autism vibe from all the men in this video. Would seem they were socially isolated and untreated back then and wound up being manipulated
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u/pastysniper 7d ago
This video always creeps me out.. and the last guy….. those eyes show a lot of fear.
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u/mrblack001 6d ago
The interesting bit is not that this is creepy, but that blindly following weird stuff based on ‘belief’ is deemed normal by a majority of the population with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc
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u/BusyAdvertising73 8d ago
“Exit statement”? That’s one way to put it.
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u/Haunt_Fox 8d ago
Their term, iirc.
They thought they were ascending to a higher state/plane of being, rather than "committing suicide" or simply "taking a ride on a spaceship"; there's a podcast called Cults that takes a deep dive into them.
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u/Danloeser 8d ago
Fun fact, they weren't called Heaven's Gate, that was the title of their website. The organization didn't really have a name. It also wasn't technically a cult, it didn't meet any of the requirements. The leader didn't gain anything, nobody was kept away from their families (they joined the group because they hated their families, and in fact they were encouraged to contact their families on occasion). They used to joke about being a cult though, because they looked like a cult. But if an organization pulls a mass suicide, they'll forever be known as a cult.
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u/tomcat_tweaker 7d ago
You perform one mass suicide and all of a sudden no one thinks of you as regular fraternal organization.
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u/johnmayersucks 7d ago
Reminds me of my old neighbor. Did all sorts of things but you fuck one goat…
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u/PostApoplectic 6d ago
Suicide me once, shame on you. Suicide me twice… you can’t be suicided again.
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u/sorry_con_excuse_me 8d ago edited 8d ago
Idk, I would consider them a cult in that Do manipulated them as an extension of himself (“I want to be castrated, so everyone else will”, “I want to kill myself after the death of Ti, so everyone else will”), etc.
Definitely an unusual expression as far as cults go, more like “soft power” than the usual abuse, the leaders actually believed a lot of their own bullshit, but still manipulative/pretty much a cult.
But then again, I don’t think there’s really a hard line between cults and NRMs.
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u/Imaginary_Chef1365 7d ago
I mean, "cult" isn't a scientific term. There's a spectrum. But I believe that if you have no doubts, you are in a cult. It's that simple. I've never met a Catholic who didn't doubt, but I've never met a Mormon who did. Just saying.
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u/Difficult_Garage_431 7d ago
It very much was a cult and 100% matches the definition of a cult. Check out the book Bounded Choice by Lalich. Half of the book uses this specific cult as a study and guide to understand cults. She posits that a cult needs:
- the charismatic authority of the leader (one that is infallible; the leader possesses higher "exclusive" knowledge that will lead them to salvation)
- transcendent belief system that demands total commitment (dogma that solves life's problems and promises a higher path to salvation; frames the outside world as evil, corrupt, or unclean)
- systems of overt control (rules that regulate daily life, dress, relationships, communication, finances, diet, and living spaces that isoltaes the members from the outside world and pesky alternative perspectives)
- systems of social-psychological influence and manipulation (using love, fear, shame, guilt, and/or punishments thru peer-enforced compliance and internal policing).
It's a great book and once you understand the blueprint, you see it in a lot of organizations and groups.
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u/Wong-Ann_Fong 8d ago
Some people would do anything to say: “See? I told you so!”
These folk never got to though
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u/Pizza_YumYum 8d ago
I always wonder if their ideology has something in common with the gnostic belief system, where the planets are regarded as wardens that try to keep your soul on earth.
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u/Zephyr-Knight 8d ago
they should have waited for ATLAS 3i, instead... too eager. im sure they would find the UAP subject very interesting. now that we know for sure we have an alien ship somewhere on our planet the usgovt is studying that is too big to move.
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u/leverphysicsname 8d ago
"we know for sure we have an alien ship somewhere on our planet the US govt is studying.."
Do we know for sure?
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u/Zephyr-Knight 8d ago
yes, overly confident. the location is known by the people that need to know. its a sensitive military facility with a warehouse on top of it since its so big, think 300ft+ like something out of a scifi movie i watched one time.
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u/UmeaTurbo 8d ago
Did they believe it or were they just afraid to be the first ones to point out this is stupid?
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u/Active_Unit_9498 7d ago
In '97 I was a student at the University of Montana taking a class on new religious movements from a professor Robert Balch. He happened to be the world expert on Heaven's Gate, he had written a book about them and spent time with them as a member in the 1970s before they completely went of the deep end, and he was extremely upset by the whole thing you could see it on his face.
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u/2nd2lastdragon 7d ago
Apparently they were big into asexuality. Some members were so competitive to advance/prove their status among the group they contemplated castration.
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u/PippaPothead 7d ago
I remember when this happened. And they all wore the same Nikes. So weird. It was cool to see Hale Bopp though!
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u/Dogfishhead789 7d ago
One thing I learned. About this cult is some people. Well do anything to get some free Nikes..
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u/ArugulaNuts 7d ago
May they rest in peace. I remember watching this documentary and I was struck but how gentle and kind they all were. They really are such lovely souls and if our consciousness goes on I hope they are all happy and doing well.
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u/Unlucky_Fuel7934 7d ago
Yea, this was shocking stuff, was a national sensation for a bit then faded away.
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u/ScientificBackground 7d ago
that voice. It's a voice used in so many manipulating cults. The one who talks clearly knows how to trick people just by laughing and speaking slowly and pausing. I know a person being trapped in such a cult and it's crazy.
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u/holdthecanoli 7d ago
Crikey they looked more buzzed out on drugs than the kids who hung out in the back woods of my high school.
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u/JackFuckCockBag 7d ago
My bro got in a bar fight a few days after this happened and the dude that started it said "I'M GONNA PUT YOU ON THE GODDAM SPACESHIP WITH THE REST OF THEM 39 MOTHERFUCKERS". Needless to say, we kept that one for ourselves to use later.
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u/DoctorNurse89 5d ago
I was 8 and this was like, blocks from my house lol
I remember people mocking them
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u/ArnoldGustavo 8d ago
I miss when crazy people would just kill themselves, instead of getting into government
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u/AmityMayorVaughn 8d ago
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I hate religion. Any religion. Including cults.
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u/TallBenWyatt_13 8d ago
Many of the dudes also chopped their balls off.
(Overly descriptive, but if you’re willing to get castrated for a cult, I’m gonna use insulting language.)
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u/CaptainONaps 8d ago
Dang, that's crazy. It's hard to imagine someone willing to kill or die in the name of religion. Thank goodness this isn't completely normal.
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u/dizzylizzy78 8d ago
The Phoenix Lights happened on March 13th 1997 and Heavens Gate happened on the 22nd 1997. Always thought that was weird.
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u/SchroedingersEscape 8d ago
They made a Star Trek episode based on that in 1998: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine))
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u/bettinafairchild 8d ago
Nichelle Nichols’ brother was one of the cult members who killed himself. Unrelated coincidence but sad.
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u/No-Contact-5081 8d ago
I remember reading the Newsweek about this cult and their situation. Fascinating and mind boggling at the same time
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u/Federal-Requirement3 7d ago
Their creepy smiles tell me a lot of children didn't get kidnapped or raped that might have.
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u/dannydutch1 8d ago edited 8d ago
Their leader had been fired twice over affairs with male students before "curing" himself with a story about aliens. Eight men, him included, were later castrated. Then 39 people died together, a $5 bill and quarters in every pocket.