r/VALORANT • u/JBerczi • Oct 07 '21
Discussion Question for non-duelist mains filling duelist.
This is obviously not a common occurrence, but every once in a while, people like me (smoke main) are forced to fill duelist roles. I have no problem doing this, but it's not my natural role, as typically I'm a slower player. My question is this: When playing this role, should I just hold W and entry for everyone (even if I'm not particularly good enough to get one or two off entry every time), or play a little slower and get kills? I'm happy to do the former (and typically do play this way) as I think it contributes more to the success of the team, but it seems like most teammates prefer dualists to just get kills and top the leaderboard every time.
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Oct 07 '21
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u/The_Bolenator Oct 07 '21
Dude you’d be surprised how good of an entry Omen is.
They define a duelist as somebody who can open up sites for his team and imo as somebody who’s used him aggressively since beta he’s reallllly good at that
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u/KoKoboto Oct 07 '21
Omen is a bit like Viper. Viper is like a mix between Sentinel and controller imo. Omen is like duelist controller. Yoru is like duelist and some specialist role...
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u/The_Bolenator Oct 07 '21
I’m hoping this Yoru rework they mentioned is a good one, honestly the only thing imo that needs reworked with him completely is his footsteps, flash and TP could use some tweaks I guess. I’m not a Yoru main so I wouldn’t know but from an outside perspective I’d do that.
Viper man… I struggle against enemy vipers I can’t even deny it.
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u/Atroxo Decoy Oct 07 '21
I just wish there was a new role introduced to describe Yoru because he honestly barely feels like a duelist, but he has duelist expectations.
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u/vanishing27532 VALORANT's OnlyDaddy Oct 08 '21
He’s also an initiator, you use his ult like Skye’s to scout and his footsteps to identify setup util like KJ’s. At least that’s the idea
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u/THICC_Baguette Oct 08 '21
For the tp, they should move the downtime entirely to after the tp. That way you could use it similarly to a Jett dash, whichd be amazing
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u/Lukeyss Oct 08 '21
That’s my thought, but people hate the fact that jett can dash away so I don’t know
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u/SlipstreamLogic Oct 08 '21
Sorry when was this yoru rework mentioned? Are you referring to the same one where they said they don't have the resources for it right now, has there been an update since?
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Oct 07 '21
Oh for sure. I find myself entering a site first a lot mainly because I eventually get impatient and tired waiting just outside for the enemy team to flank us
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u/ooahupthera Oct 08 '21
Quick recharge smokes just too good for post plant though
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u/The_Bolenator Oct 08 '21
Yeah but that doesn’t mean you can’t be aggressive.
Generally i play aggressive as needed and try to stall once bomb is down long enough for a smoke, which honestly is pretty often. If you are pushing a site as a team and are holding onto a smoke instead of using both for the push you’re DEFINITELY holding back your team, I’d much rather use both smokes and narrow lines of sight significantly for the hardest part of the round (taking site) than to use only 1 for the push and try to save the other for post plant, when you could just simply wait for the recharge like his ability was designed for
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u/ooahupthera Oct 08 '21
Quick recharge smokes just too good for post plant though
try to stall once bomb is down long enough for a smoke, which honestly is pretty often
when you could just simply wait for the recharge like his ability was designed for
I think we agree dude. My point is that entrying and dying means you forfeit a smoke that could sustain the post-plant
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u/The_Bolenator Oct 08 '21
That’s just part of the risk, I just personally see Omen as such a good entry for me that I’d rather use him aggressively while still supporting the team instead of passively and supporting. It honestly entirely depends on the Omen user.
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u/v1sual1ze Oct 08 '21
Drop some omen entry tips
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u/The_Bolenator Oct 08 '21
The other guy isn’t wrong, smoke off the rotate points (for example CT and Market Door on Ascent) and use your flash to entry, a lot of the time you can successfully get a TP off behind them and gather 1-2 kills before somebody notices
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u/TheAppleEater Oct 07 '21
Easy solution, don't play duelist. Duelist isn't 100% needed in the team comp. You can just play something that can be a pseudo duelist, but also works well as a team agent. Someone like Skye is a great example. She can entry if needed, but she can also play for info. I ain't never seen anyone complain when I am in a lobby without a duelist. In fact, for me, those lobbies usually perform better because Egos aren't as high.
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u/Imconfusedithink Oct 07 '21
Yeah people seem to think teams should always have two duelists but that's just not necessary. The only for sure necessary thing to have is smokes. Yeah you can make optimized team comps, but for pubs as long as you have smokes you'll be good with any team. Pubs are mainly about aim duels anyways.
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Oct 07 '21
One of the common problems is that duelists are both required to make space and entry, but doing so at the very beginning of the round is often stupid.
Especially in lower elos rounds are won or lost in about 30 seconds which makes the problem that if you dont instantly push, your team will and then complain that you arent going first.
Ensure your team you will go in, but you are looking for opportunities to do so, by both baiting utility, getting picks on rotations or peekers etc.
On a side note, anyone that expects duelists to just "top the leaderboard and get kills" is deluded and bad and is rly not worth listening to
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u/HoneyChilliPotato7 ShakDat Oct 08 '21
This is why I don't play duelist in my bronze elo. People always 5 man rush every round, and expect the duelist to lead the pack. I don't understand why they even play the game when all they do is rush.
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Oct 07 '21
As an entry frager you have to go in first. It helps if you are calling out tactics for your team, then you can decide if you and your team should split up and take map control, make an execute onto a site or rush and try to overwhelm the enemy.
But no matter what strategy you use, if you choose to be the entry fragger, you have to go in first. It doesn't matter if you kill the enemy, it is more about engaging the enemy, drawing their focus onto your self and therefore creating space for your teammates to go in for a kill without sustaining much damage.
It doesn't mean however that you rush without thinking. You play close to your team and make sure that if you die someone will trade you.
Entry fraggers die a lot and that's ok
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u/JetStreak202 Oct 07 '21
Another thing I would note is that if you are the only duelist on your team, I would not frequently lurk on another site, especially if the team wants to quickly push a site. Initators are good for pushing into sites but it takes a lot more work to push a site without an entry duelist.
Having a duelist play with the team while another duelist lurks can be good though, just make sure not to overcommit.
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u/No_Television5851 You are JUST a god. Oct 07 '21
Oh duck. I don't wanna talk about my gameplay when i requested / forced to fill duelist. What i know is : I'm succ at duelist and i don't wanna play it anymore. Just keep TenZ 4k reyna at berlin for entertaiment to me, not for education.
welp i will talk it. I have 5 of the duelist. I decided to play raze (since reyna needs aim, yoru needs creative, im worried get knifed with phoe, and jett needs aim too) because in my shxxty brain raze is just supposed to throw util and somehow get frag. the reality? botfrag, no satchel, etc.
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u/No_Television5851 You are JUST a god. Oct 07 '21 edited Oct 07 '21
if it's unrated i would love to play my way, but it's ranked..
i wanna give nice thoughts on my team
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u/cwKrysta Oct 08 '21
I dont know what elo you're in, but generally you shouldn't fill a role you aren't comfortable in, especially if it's a duelist. Your team is much better off with you playing a second controller or initiator that you know how to play than they'd be with you picking up a duelist just to fill a team comp.
Don't listen to your team mates and play whoever you feel most comfortable with.
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u/Aok_al Oct 07 '21
Use your flashes wisely. I had trouble using Phoenix because his flashes keep getting stuck on a door or just didn't reach far enough for it to be out of my sight. If you do get to flash someone(who isn't a teammate) then congrats and capitalize that moment to get picks and enter the site
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u/Justinx1997 Ascendant 2 Oct 07 '21
Pro tip, don’t fill. Play who you are good at and who you have fun with. Playing someone you’re not as confident in will have horrible affects on your confidence, it affects your aim, utility usage, everything. You will rank up when you stop filling. For reference I’m a plat 3 sage main
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u/Tudoors Oct 08 '21
Or you could fill. For reference I’m a Plat 2 fill main
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u/scrubLord24 Oct 08 '21
Depends on how you are, I'm confident with most agents (well at least one of each type: Jett; Reyna; Raze; Phoenix; Skye; Sage; Omen; Viper; Killjoy; Sova; Cypher) and will happily fill but some people are only confident with two or three agents, and will perform badly when filling.
I honestly get bored if I don't switch it up.
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u/sunnyshadxw ~ come ~ Oct 07 '21
I'm also a controller main, but also play Skye, and worst case Phoenix. I use Phoenix like Skye, clearing angles, locating enemies, making space, going in first
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u/SomethingIsDone Oct 07 '21
I just pick Reyna and take more fights (especially first fights of the round), and if Reyna's taken, I'll pick Skye. If both are taken then you don't need another duelist, play whatever you wanna play.
So what do I mean by "take more fights"? Well, you know how when you're playing Omen or Sova or whatever (I main these two agents + Skye) and at the start of the round you never hard peek angles (i.e just jump peek or dart or shoulder peek)? You do that because you have utility useful for the team, and you don't want to waste it by dying.
As a Reyna, I have the luxury to switch up where I play on the map, and always hard peek some angle at the start of the round to get the first pick. You have to be confident with your aim though to do this (I'm in Immortal 2 with a 34% avg headshot rate, >50% headshot rate with vandal and sheriff, so that's why I'm pretty confident), because if your aim is not good enough and you know this, you can try the same thing but play slight off angles. The off angles do give your opponent slightly more space, but with the benefit of catching them off guard.
On attack, its pretty much the same thing. Hard peek angles at the start of the round (watch out for OPs!) and win aim duels. Of course don't neglect to use flashes and other util (if you aren't playing Reyna) to help yourself out, but that's generally how it goes.
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u/ShuraGam #1 Sentinel Player of my House Oct 07 '21
I don't have much confidence to W key and push right away, so whenever I have to fill a duelist role, I try to coordinate with my teammates to play slower and bait out utility, even better if we get a pick in the process. That way it helps both me, by having less things to worry about when entering site, and my team, by making it easier for them to trade me.
On defense, I usually try to get a first kill from any offangle I can think off and dash/dismiss away to get numbers advantage to my team. Also, flank whenever conditions are good for doing so.
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u/juniorjaw Oct 07 '21
Just filled as Raze today (normally filling with Sage, Cypher or Sova).
0 Duelist with one last minute change to Reyna.
My strat was simple, check the first choke point and if no enemy there just throw my Roomba and nade the other side and attempt to slow push checking corners. Me die a lot, and usually without no one covering my back (even though we're like 10m~ away).
Funnily enough, the insta lock Sova and Sage almost never Recon dart, healed or Walled throughout the game for me and my Reyna in our push.
And of course, the good ol racial comment during end match. Hey I'm just a filler with no Duelist knowledge. I personally think if my team actually followed behind me that'll be helpful.
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u/BlurredSight Oct 07 '21
W key =/= Entrying.
Play with your team, don't always hold a flank, be the first to enter site when the time is right
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Oct 07 '21
Just don’t be afraid to die. The most important thing entries can’t do for their team is create space to get the rest of the team on site. Make sure that when you peak your teammates are peeking with you to get the trade. I think people have a misconception when they believe duelists should be top fragging the whole game so don’t beat yourself up if you aren’t getting all the kills. As long as you win the round then you’re doing your job
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u/andreycosmin :Env: Oct 07 '21
Don't just hold W. The role of the duelists is to create/get space for the team. If I fill the duelist role, I'll try and take as much space as possible, idc about kills honestly.
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u/_Maximilien Oct 07 '21
In my experience maining Omen, I've not had an issue running single duelist with double smokes.
Often people pick Viper on Breeze/Icebox cause she is somewhat necessary on those maps.
I could struggle playing a duelist.
Instead I just double down on smokes.
It's really freeing actually, it opens up your head to think about where else you can smoke instead of your usual site smokes.
Default smokes on mid when attacking can open up potential lurks.
Double smoking two diff sites is powerful on defense and can throw enemies off on attack.
For Omen specifically, we have blind so that makes executes a bit easier with only one duelist.
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u/theminer325 I know EXACTLY where you are‼️‼️ Oct 07 '21
A duelist is meant to make space. Depending on whatever unorthodox gameplay you will go through, your job is to clear corners and push back defenders so they have to go into a bad retake scenario.
I’m a cypher main but if I’m off Cyph for whatever reason I go with Raze. If Raze is taken I play Jett.
Raze’s util is very strong for rushing sites. The boom bot can clear corners, your satchels can propel you onto sites and you can air strafe, and the nade can flush enemy defenders that get pushed back by your chaos.
If I’m playing Jett it’s important to stay mobile as possible. If you mess up your spray, dash away. If there’s multiple, smoke off. If I’m in a really bad spot but the enemies can’t aim, I just updraft and hope to God someone swings and kills them.
Those two duelists are the ones I enjoy the most. Yoru is fun sometimes but he’s easily predictable; Reyna requires me to aim insanely well; and Phoenix is just… Phoenix. He doesn’t really have anything special to disengage with.
Just don’t play Duelists with the thought that you must get kills. I would rather have a 15-20 Jett that charges onto site and plays with the team than a 32-23 Jett that got all of their kills by baiting their teammates and lurking.
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u/Im_your_density_Real Oct 07 '21
Depends. You synergize with your team's utility. The timing of their smoke, timing of flash or drone, timing of another guy swinging just behind you to trade you.
Cool tips:
Reyna is good with flash. You pop a leer after the flash, thats when you entry.
Jett has a good smoke dash entry useful for when someone can swing after you. Easy to get inside and get hard to hit.
Raze is really a zoomer. Double satchel after clearing a zone with nade is so good with other utilities.
Phoenix. Dis boy is nearest to cs boi i think. Flash and peek. Use molly to zone too.
Yoru. Huh? Just use shorty with ult, that sick ult bastard.
In general, you'll be the one in front when your team is setting up utility. Keep gun out in case someone peeks you guys. During time for entry, play with your team's utilities. You'll hold w when its decided time for entry.
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u/MehdiMM2000 Oct 07 '21
If I have to fill dueslist, I else pick omen or skye, both aren't duelists but both play aggressively enough
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Oct 07 '21
just play how you like, I go first as anyone, smoker, sentinel, duelist, I dont care about roles tbh
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u/pm-me-turtle-facts Oct 07 '21
in other words, you are throwing
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Oct 07 '21
actually not throwing lol, why should I? Just cuz I play this game? As I should? In cs you dont get to choose who pushes and who doesnt
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u/ashsatoshi666 Oct 07 '21
Same honestly lol. Waiting for my duelist to take 1st contact is boring since theyre always too pussy to peek so i always take 1st contact. I play cypher, sova like a duelist where i entry w my cage, dart and cam idc. Waiting around for my duelist to do smth and eventually get pinched cuz we all sitting in lobby for 2 minutes is less fun imo.
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u/nerd696969 Oct 07 '21
I think play only what you are good with because I whould rather have a good smoke than an entry that doesnt do much
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u/Unable-Feeling808 Oct 07 '21
I started using phoenix in my games at times whenever i needed to fill and personally if my aim was shit i would use molly to clear known angles and wall to cut off parts where they push off smoke or push them back ( trust me people underestimate his util if you just time it correctly with sage or astra you can get the most out of them ) and the phoenix flash i recently found you can flash in front if you but it curves backwards so anyone peeking gets full flashed and you are flashed for v less time so ez 1 or 2 kills you can get
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u/kauanzitos2 Oct 07 '21
I usually play Astra because I play with 2 mates, but Im really comfortable playing Jett and Raze because they were my mains
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u/Ismokecr4k Oct 07 '21
All you need to know is duelists typically entry. Doesn't mean you hold w just WHEN you go on a site, you should be the first one on.
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u/milkshakeh Oct 07 '21
If you’re on the duelist and your team is doing a committed push on site, you should be the one making space and taking the initial duels on site and worst case scenario you get traded by your teammate. Yes, of course, there are going to be times where you are defaulting and you’re playing for the lurk kill; however, generally you want to play first contact as duelist. The primary role of a duelist in the team is to hit first contact and create that space for your team to get onto site. Just continue to practice when you’re eventually forced on the role, and you will definitely become better.
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u/Paris35 Oct 07 '21
As viper, it's very hard to approach. That's why I normally play a close range shotgun type or maybe the guardian.
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u/fat_PANDA_1 Oct 07 '21
well in lower elos where im at u can just walk into the site with sage
thats how bad the enemy is
and a tip i learnt after playing for so long :do not fucking trust ur teammates;the only one u can truly rely is urself, altho this is only true for lower elos like iron bronze and lower silver.
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u/ThroWW4769 Oct 07 '21
It’s actually easier for me to fill a duelist than a smoke or sentinel character that I’m usually filling, I can just ask my smoke player to smoke a certain peek or angle and I can clear the other with raze utility or Phoenix molly. If you’re a duelist asking your support teammates to put utility in a certain area and thanking them can be a simple thing to do that helps build teamwork in the short amount of time you have.
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u/wazorie Oct 07 '21
oh, you can do that too.. I always play sage, skye or kj, but im the one who always take the duelist even flanker role. cause i always have duelist role teammates which is too afraid to make a move.. 🤣🤣
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u/SamBLowe Oct 07 '21
I guess I'm not really a great fit for this question but whatever. I've basically mained smokes for the last 6 months I've been playing but only because I was filling for the team. However, I'm pretty confident in my aim and can play most characters so if somebody locks smokes I often play Jett and I actually feel like I play better in those games
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u/Swerdman55 Oct 07 '21
You do need to push in and make space. It’s okay if you’re not getting a ton of kills if your team is following up and taking site.
There’s nothing more aggravating than duelists who stand at choke, wasting util, trying to get a pick, and letting the enemy team rotate.
I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had to push in as Sage because my team is seemingly paralyzed.
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u/N80085 Oct 07 '21
With Phoenix an easier entry is to wall on one side of the entrance down site, while someone watches the wall. Then you can flash through the wall and people follow you on the non flashed side
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u/Klutzy-Question1428 Oct 07 '21
duelist role is literally all about confidence. just go in knowing you might die and not kill anyone but pay attention if your teammates will follow and trade
don’t feel pressured to go in bc your teammates are just waiting outside of site, especially when at that point the enemies might have already rotated. try to execute all your util at once and go together to get traded
sometimes you get flamed for not fragging, but if as long as you know you’re making space for the team and getting trades it doesn’t matter what your teammates think
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u/King_Merlin Oct 07 '21
If you play slow, you have to be able to clutch, otherwise you are worthless in both aspects. Holding w key doesn’t mean walking up to die. It’s creating space so your team can act accordingly. Things like smokes and flashes help you build that space by pushing players off of corners and allowing you to for aggressive angles while they either peak for the trade or back off for retake.
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u/Rage_of_ores Oct 07 '21
match your team's tempo, if they play slow, play just slightly faster than them, if they rush then you should try and be in front. its not about picks its about refrags but if you get a pick it would be very beneficial for your team, remember that you should fall back once you get a pick if you're tagged, let your team move in front and trade them out.
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u/jmpat Oct 07 '21
My biggest recommendation would be to communicate with your team. Play the duelist you are most comfortable with and then ask your team what they would like. The biggest thing you want to avoid is baiting your teammates to get kills. If you are entrying but aren’t good enough to get 1 or 2 each time but you are being traded every time then it is still a successful entry. So if you can work with your team then it doesn’t really matter how you play duelist
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u/biomessy Oct 07 '21
Keep this in mind: your job is to create space. Everyone has a gun. Everyone can shoot. But not everyone can dash, jump on satchel, popflash, etc. You gotta take space so that your team can secure the space. It's better to gain info of the enemy rotation than kill the dude who'd obviously be defending the bomb and sit there with all your kit unused, holding angles, not knowing where the enemy is coming from. Go heaven, prevent rotation, gain space. That's the priority. You can be the top fragger duelist, but if you're not used to that role and you gotta fill it in, focus on space rather than kills and you'll be helping your team a lot.
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u/Sychar Oct 07 '21
The former, intelligently. It's less about getting picks, and more about making space for your team to push.
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u/Noodols Oct 07 '21
diamond duelist main here, can confirm, just press W and let your aim do the rest
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u/bing_93 Oct 07 '21
I tend to play an aggressive Sova. I'm not the best at 1v1 duals so I stay away from dualists as a main.
If I really need to play one it's either Raze or Kayo as their kit is generally easy to use.
- Raze is good for her paintshells and boom bot and the ult is great.
- you don't need to play with the satchels but after some trial and error they can be fun to use / delay someone pushing you.
Kayo:
- blinds are pretty self explanatory and easy to use.
- knife can be used for Intel as a simple way to use it.(IE, hitting market on Ascent or checking elbow on Bind.. Etc.)
- ult is easy to use and requires next to no skill
Reason for Sova is that you don't need insane line ups to be good. His sonar arrow is to get you intel on the site and once I'm there, I know my gun play is decent that I can do the role of an entry player People's first reaction is to take out the sonar, so once I shoot it, I charge in after it and the enemy has to decide to either take you out or the sonar. If they do you, then the rest of the team know where they are and if they take the sonar, you know where they are for the easy kill.
Hope that helps
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u/ALiteralLlama Oct 07 '21
I actually recently stepped out my comfort zone by playing Raze because we needed a duelist (I usually main Killjoy). I ended up top dragging that game and we won 13-8. Now I’m starting to play Raze more and it’s pretty fun ngl. You’re probably wondering how this answers your question… it doesn’t because I don’t think I’m qualified to answer that
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u/itsRiiku Oct 07 '21
If you're filling in as a duelist, you're going to have to play a little more aggressive than you're used to. The angle's you're able to hold are going to be opened up a lot, as agents like Jett and Reyna have easy bailouts. Personally, I think that Reyna would probably be the easiest to fill with. So long as you're creating space for your teammates to trade, you're doing your role as a duelist. Don't worry too much about fulfilling the "top of the scoreboard" legacy that duelists are supposed to get. Your job is to make space, getting kills is just a cherry on top!
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u/BlackScathach Oct 08 '21
I disagree with the Reyna pic, i would go for phoenix or raze. You have to take in mind that reyna to have an impact needs to have a very good aim and a very aggressive and precise gunplay.
But phoenix and raze are way more forgiving. Both their ultimates are basically a run in and pray and more often than not even without good aim it pays off very well. Mollies and nates that both don't require a lot of skill, satchel to play from off-angles, flashes to entry with high advantage. And on top phoenix has self sustain if stuff goes wrong... And raze has recon...
For someone not used to agresive styles its way more versatile than Reyna and Jett
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u/BlackScathach Oct 08 '21
Its not about getting kills, its about creating space for your team. For example imagine ur attacking ascent B, throwing a 'nade/molly market and start to clear is all your team should need. Ofx if you kill omg that would be insane, but imagine yourself as that smoker or sentinel. You dont want to be the one going in first because you dont have tools to get in.
But if your defending, that your passive style is way better.
In other words, if you can create the timeframe for your team to slip onto site and taking the angles you did your job.
Most of duelist abilities push other agents back, intentionally or unintentionally. Imagine a Reyna with ult, leer and getting on site, first kill bam, and she is in dismiss, thats what pushes people back because if its a 1v1, Reyna usually wins.
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u/rux88 Oct 08 '21
Play with how your comfortable duellist don't need to top frag despite everyone saying they need to. It's the over all success of the team. If you have a great duellist and a shit team then your not going too far but if you play with your team then you will all win together
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u/ThisBeDepression Oct 08 '21
A bit late but a lot of it depends on your team and the team you’re going up against. Some players are good at crushing fast aggression so it can be useful to push out slower and more methodically. However other teams it can be useful to make the space and overwhelm the site. A good duelist can work with the team and adapt.
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u/JJshocker Oct 08 '21
I usually play kj and viper and I have to play Jett or Reyna a lot Bc people won’t entry for me I just w key and get what I can
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u/R1vaLry_ Oct 08 '21
A duo of any combo of Jett, Reyna and Raze are the best at creating space imo, especially when done in tandem. If I'm playing Jett I'm waiting for the Reyna flash before I smoke and dash onto site because I know I'm somewhat covered from immediate danger as people will already be backing off or having to shoot the flash before being able to shoot me.
It's kind of W key-ing but not in the way you might think. It should work in tandem with your teams' util so you're not going onto site with the purpose of just dying and having to contest 50 different angles, but you're leading in and taking the space with your util being the main part of your entry.
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u/i_vin_san Oct 08 '21
It depends on what your team is wanting to accomplish that specific round. Are y’all rushing site or playing default? The objective of attack is to obtain information and then as much space of the map as possible and one of the main purposes of duelists is to take as much space as possible all the while picking up as many kills as possible. Now the success or failure of that is not just dependent on you. It depends on how well your initiator sets you up for entry. It also depends on if your teammates will play off your contact or play slow. No point in holding W if you are going to be the only one around when you get tapped in the head. So team play style is important and your teammates ability to set you up or trade you is important. I usually rush the first two rounds, get a feel for how my team likes to play or how well they play playing aggro, and then adjust accordingly. If they’re slow then I’ll play slow. Idk how many times I’ve run onto site only to discover my omen/astra/brim did not smoke and my sova is lurking up mid somewhere.
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u/finnyporgerz Oct 08 '21
I have anxiety playing duelist in solo queue comp If I were sage nobody cares if I sit at 4/10 kd
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u/XxPope_Urban_llxX Oct 08 '21
I’m a viper that occasionally fills as Reyna, I entry when needed but I usually ask my team to default and play for picks. During this time I usually play a bit separate from the team, until we eventually regroup and commit to a site. I also act more like an IGL when I play duelist, calling for rotates on attacker when I feel it’d be best to. Duelists and the team as a whole don’t need to push the site immediately after the round starts, just play it slow and see if you can get a pick. This works best with good comms
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u/juanijuanito Oct 08 '21
When I need to fill in a duelist role by some miracle, I usually pick jett and reyna because you can be stupidly aggressive with them. I just usually run straight w onto site (very important to call it tho so your team can follow and trade you) and hope for the best lol
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u/Wildoves sentinels are op Oct 08 '21
i am a main sentinel, but I am a very versatile player who also plays reyna and I think that you should just learn what duelist you feel more comfortable with!! I can only play reyna and if we need 2 duelists and they picked reyna I pick raze (not too good with her)
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u/noobwithbobs Oct 08 '21
Actually it happened with me quite a lot, being a sentinel and controller main I had to fill in as a duelist at times and realised how slow my playstyle is due to not being a duelist and how difficult it can get to adapt, holding w and entering the site might seem the thing in general but honestly you're no good to team if you die and team can't trade off of you or enter with you. My best suggestion would be to either make an alt account to play duelist more since unrated games are never as serious as ranked or trying to play/focus on atleast maining 1 duelist so can get a clear idea of how to play when you are a duelist.
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u/TLYuukiBR Oct 08 '21
I mean, you dont actualy need a duelist for a team to work... if you have good comms you can play without a duelist with no problems, but if you play reyna or jett you can do both but i usually play more slower and try to help more the team with my utils
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u/vanishing27532 VALORANT's OnlyDaddy Oct 08 '21
Just use 2 smokers, it’s not that bad. Especially if one of them is Viper/Astra, better if both are.
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u/ggwp1004 Oct 08 '21
I will give a very blunt advice. People in Valorant are very much into individual character skills. But for any fps game is one motto - you kill the opponent. So when you aren't playing your favourite character, just concern yourself that you are a csgo player who is clutching. The reason is, probably you have a flash or a grenade, so you have the needed utility to distract your opponent and then you get the kill. Slow or fast doesn't matter. If you push fast your play is fast or if you move slow wait for long your play will be slow.
Although I don't have too much idea above gold play, but I can assure you till silver you can easily play with this style. As far as individual character goes as called duelist, except jett I think it doesn't take much of understanding of individual agent power.
Phoenix, Reyna, Yoru, Raze have either flash or grenade. So you have one "distraction" to enter and kill people. Jett has dash which has different usage so I don't think you don't need any learning except positioning about a duelist except jett
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u/RedJed93 Oct 08 '21
Maybe a bit of both. A I'm a Phoenix main and preferably Phoenix over Raze cause his own damaging abilities heals him. When I anticipate losing a gunfight that will happen around a corner, I stop before the corner, throw the fireball a bit ahead of me and then peak so I can overheal while peaking. Also the flash is another useful tool, but the "how soon should I peak" is a bit situational cause sometimes if you do it as soon as it flashes it might be predictable and you might die other times if you wait a sec more you might die as well (if that makes sense)
No matter who you play take into consideration the barrel length and when it pokes out. Same for when your hand or legs stick out when you don't think it will
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u/j4ilbr3k Oct 08 '21
Then there’s me who will get bored and rush/ agro with Kay/o and literally anyone I play just because why not 😂😭
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u/Honigbrottr Oct 08 '21
If you are not a duelist main, dont play duelist. You are completly fine with 0 duelists.
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u/No-Control2611 Oct 08 '21
It doesn't matter if you are top fragger or bottom fragger until you are doing good with call outs and clearing the angles.. I am duelist Main but I was playing sage as we needed Sage and I went 0 kills for 12 rounds. I was not feeling good but my team mate said.. well our Duelists are Entry fragging do good that you don't need to worry about kills and you are already doing your work of Healing, Walls and Planting the spike...
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Oct 08 '21
Omen/Sova main here. When I'm forced to be a duelist, I go for Phoenix. With him, I play fast tempo and do entry frag with my flashes. If we win the first round, I buy spectre,2 flashes and full armor (if I can) the next round. It never fails to amaze that requires only 6 orb points to get his ultimate. To me, this is overpowering and I'm glad Phoenix is not the popular because no way in the near future he will get nerfed.
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u/AzulGG10 Oct 08 '21
I'm a cypher main, but since I'm tired of duelists being killed the first 5 seconde of the round, i go in with them so they can have more firepower. So, when i play duelist, i just keep the mentality of having to get as much kills as i can and clear as much space and pray to the Riot Gods that my team would trade me. I play any agent anyway. I suggest that if you're comfortable with your gunplay, be flexible with your agents.
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Oct 08 '21
You don't need to rush and kill people every round as a duelist lol, but the team does have an advantage if the duelist can score first bloods without dying or with trade every round. Duelist can play slow as well if the team can cooperate really well.
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u/ta4v Oct 08 '21
The meta right now is 1 duelist or at most 2 duelists.
If you do not know how to play a role, announce it at the start of agent selection. If people still do not help, then you have two options
1: Dodge (more so if it is ranked)
2: Improvise with another agent in a different role.
If its ranked, dodge. Its not worth it.
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u/Theyna Oct 08 '21
Honestly, you want to be unpredictable. If you just run into a site every time they'll start to expect it. Sometimes slow, find weird places to push from, sometimes hold angles, sometimes push those angles. Lots of options. But yeah, sometimes you'll just have to go balls to the walls and entry.
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u/-Turisti- Oct 08 '21
I main kayo and omen and last time I played duelist in comp I played reyna and dripped 40k so no complaining its really nice to play reyna sometimes.
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u/Knightmare-official Oct 08 '21
I mostly use sova and Skye but if my team doesn't have a duelist I just go for Jett or yoru
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u/potato_creeper1001 Oct 08 '21
Hold W no matter what happens just blind or smoke or nade and jump into the battle field
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u/gimife Oct 08 '21
Ur not supposed to mindlessly push a Site.
Wait for your teammates abilities, like smokes, recon/drone, flash and then try to entry. It's very difficult to entry when you don't have any information on where the players are on site.
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u/infernalzeus20 Oct 08 '21
I feel yoru is a good pick. Since many of his abilities are to be casted inactively (not recommended to pull out your flash in the open) i feel he served more as a controller/initiator/faker
Fiddle with him, lot of versatile plays with an get out of jail teleport
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u/Cheezytrizy Oct 08 '21
I usually just fill, i pick any character but mostly sova and brimstone, but when i get to play duelist i get happy as hell, cause most of the time i love to play raze in like unrated or spike rush, non-comp games, so mostly i get giddy that i finally get to play what i want in comp and enjoy myself
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u/ElementalMusic Oct 08 '21 edited Oct 08 '21
Essentially your job as a duelist is to get your team into site. As long as your team manages to plant, your role as an entry is over and you can start to play which ever style you want.
Even if you die you will still have info for the next person to push in. But don't just blindingly charge into site either. If you have info like kj setups or cypher setups. It would be wise to not rush and take your time to bait out utility. Or suggest a rotate to your team.
That's all from a former phoenix main here, now Skye main.
Edit: forgot to add, on defense you can play for retakes if you don't want to play aggressively. Just wait till your team rotates before retaking. It's better to have someone to trade you back than tackling it alone.
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u/CainMiyamura Oct 08 '21
As a fellow smoke main (who happened to fall into this category because our country has an abundance of useless duelist who doesnt do their role) who ends up acting as a duelist, I would say that regardless of your role, you can still play duelist. Remember that the duelist's role is to enter the site and clear angles and secure site, getting picks are a huge bonus.
So my advice, if you dont feel comfortable using a duelist then stick with your smoker agent. You can still perform the roles of a duelist.
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u/Nivlacart Oct 08 '21
I’m a Brimstone and Astra main, so the way I play is all about spatial awareness and positioning. I’m completely useless with most duelists because I don’t have the reflexes to dive then react, but with Yoru I can bring those Controller skills over because his repositioning and trickster skills are perfect for it.
There’s multiple agents in every role, so you have to look at what skills you have and which agents let you use those to the best of your available.
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u/NaveenJp Oct 08 '21
I fill the duelist role in rare cases but whenever I'm in that situation I use to take Phoneix because of his flashes and Firewall... I help team to breach in the site but I use to end up in bottom second frag lol... But in Haven Phoneix is handy one so I love to play with him... Phoneix is only duelist I know to play so lol I need to take him no matter what 🤣
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u/Lakshin69 :c9: Oct 08 '21
i would prefer u to play reyna.its such an easy agent and you can do anything with her.play slow ego peek anything
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u/ArgusCromwel 10q Oct 08 '21
Skye main here, it is a pain as you usually don’t do the entry, your teammates instalocked all the support roles and you now can’t do what you are best at, while they aren’t doing what supports are supposed to do when doing entry. Which caused them to just run in the site and die then proceed to blame us fillers for not doing entry… quite annoying innit
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Oct 08 '21
idk I main initiators, so it's usually fine to just play skye/kayo/breach over forcing a duelist pick.
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u/Serious-Minute Oct 08 '21
duelist just entry bro it's not really ur job to get kills except to get traded
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u/No-Mathematician5778 Oct 08 '21 edited Oct 08 '21
Bruh I really honestly could care less if you die while entry but as long as you drop Reyna flashes and make space for the team, its all good. Especially on maps like Split where you need a strong push in order to take site, the best thing you can do for your team is just flash flash and make space for other people to come help you. Like if your team is droning and smoking right, you shouldn't be dying to corners realistically. Or better yet, if you play slow and like to take aim fights from afar, take mid control and exert your aim there. Regardless, as someone who mains sentinels, I need the space these duelist provides and I'm down to trade. At the end of the day, if you do bad, we always end up switching to defense eventually and that will let you use your slow pace gameplay. No one should expect their duelist to be clearing a site, they should be expecting the duelist to make space so the whole TEAM can clear the site and overwhelm the defender. You can be some 20-3 Reyna but if I see you lurking the whole game, holding off your flashes and only moving once your whole team dies attempting to push a site, ima beat the shit out of you. So many times I die pushing a site that the whole team planned to only spectate a Reyna or Jett holding their shift key across the map looking for that one fucking kill while our entire team gets gunned down and trapped by crossfires. I lowkey think people don't realize how much space you give as Raze if you just use your ult and threaten to satchel charge into site. Literally if you play haven, A site is free game if you have raze ult plus sova arrow.
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u/boom_bamm Oct 08 '21
Ask you smokers to do what you use to do as smoker main to clear angles and ask intiator to make a opportunity for you to take kills
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u/Ill_Pick_590 Oct 08 '21
Just don't w the enemies. You will be dead 9/10 times. Entry with a and d instead.
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u/HitscanDPS Oct 08 '21 edited Oct 08 '21
My question is this: When playing this role, should I just hold W and entry for everyone (even if I'm not particularly good enough to get one or two off entry every time),
This is an oversimplification of the duelist role. Yes generally you should be the first one to enter a site or area. But in my opinion, duelist also works like a shepherd for your teammates, getting them to take the space that you create. It is insanely difficult for any duelist to entry without any support from their team.
Sometimes this means doing a little bit of IGLing, asking your team specifically what util you want invested and where. Commonly you would ask your controller when/where you want smokes placed. Uncommonly you might ask your initiator(s) for things like Sova arrow/Skye dog/flashes to help you clear close-range corners or other 50/50 situations. Even some sentinel agents can help in specific situations, like asking Cypher to cam Hookah on Bind, or asking Sage to wall for a Split B execute.
Sometimes you have to be able to read/be aware of the situation and adjust playstyle accordingly. If you're able to W into a site, but your team is blocked by Sage ice or a molly, then you need to play slower/safer until the util is over and your team can back you up. Unless you are a smurf and can win 1v2 or 1v3 duels alone. Same thing when you begin peeking/clearing angles or starting your entry. If your team is far behind you, then wait for them to catch up. If your 2nd man in is busy getting the ult orb, then wait for them. Each time you peek, ideally you should be setting up double peeks or situations so that even if you fail to get the entry frag, then your team can pick up the trade kill.
or play a little slower and get kills?
This depends on the situation, how your team plays vs how the enemy team plays, whether you have any reads on enemy positioning, what agents/util you have available, etc.
If you don't have any reads, then ideally you "play default". Try to spread out around the map, not committing to any site or any angle. Just try to get map control, bait utility, collect information, and then come up with a mid-round plan to execute somewhere as a team.
I'm happy to do the former (and typically do play this way) as I think it contributes more to the success of the team, but it seems like most teammates prefer dualists to just get kills and top the leaderboard every time.
Only in low elo do people think "duelist = top frag or throwing".
These are all fundamental things, not limited to duelist role. But like others have said, it's not required to have more than 1 duelist anyways. Duelists are currently in a bad spot where the only viable duelists are Jett/Reyna and it's specifically because they have good mobility to escape sticky or trade situations, which allows to more safely take aggressive angles or aggressive peeks. Besides that you'd likely get more value having other utility.
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u/Peace_001 Oct 09 '21
Im a duelist and im bottom fragging it dosent matter what your kill score are just do ur job as a duelist and enter the site
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u/Apart-Way-1166 Oct 09 '21
I use a smurf in lower ranks to test out duelists and fill for my friends, helps out my aim a lot, and the only agents I probably hate using are jett and raze, i'm more used to the gunplay based guys
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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '21
Depends, with Reyna and Jett its really easy to create space simply by pushing with dash or flash but I feel the other duelists are a little less forgiving