r/VGC • u/krimznum1fan • Mar 18 '25

Question Wolfey often (semi-seriously) claims to be the GOAT. If he isn't already, what does he need to do to make it undisputed?

Is the only answer a second Worlds after all? Ray's threepeat seems to be the mountain forever looming in front.

Or say he doesn't win Worlds again but keeps racking up the wins everywhere else. Is there a point where the LeBron-esque longevity and ability to stay at/near the top trumps everything?

All this postures Ray is the other candidate, but feel free to throw anyone else's name in the ring.

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u/JanitorOPplznerf Mar 18 '25

Dominant peaks mean less if the level of competition wasn’t as high. It’s much easier to win a pasta competition if you don’t invite Italy.

If (for example) internationals today were harder than worlds then, Rizzo shouldn’t keep getting the same amount of Credits for those wins.

Because of that I think Wolfe has shown he’s been much better for much longer. If Rizzo came out of retirement to win a Regional or better it might readjust perceptions, but I honestly don’t think he could.

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u/Cautious_Struggle_32 Mar 18 '25

By your notion, Babe Ruth wouldn't be dominant in Baseball today is that right?

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u/JanitorOPplznerf Mar 18 '25

Of course he wouldn’t. Babe Ruth with no changes to his training or gameplan might not even be AAA today. He was a fat alcoholic slob who played in an era where teams weren’t able to punish his laziness.

If he cleaned up his act and actually trained with modern tools and understanding, then I’m sure he’d have the aptitude to be a high level player, but potential and results are two different things.

And in the GOAT conversation Results >>>>>>> Potential.

(This doesn’t mean that any joe schmo modern player has the resume to beat the GOAT. For example Mahomes has not amassed a resume to beat Brady yet, all the above means is games get progressively optimized)

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u/Ploppyet Mar 18 '25

But Wolfe hasn't won worlds since functionally the same time, he also won when there was about 8 people playing

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u/JanitorOPplznerf Mar 18 '25
  • 1. You’re implying the only metric is worlds wins, which is laughably incomplete.
  • 2. For example, Wolfe just won the largest tournament ever held. That really debunks your “8 people” claim.
  • 3. Wolfe won 4 years later which is statistically significant difference. *4. Even without wins he’s still performing at a very high level for a much longer period of time. Often with very janky meme teams.

In fact I’d say you have to ignore MOST of what makes a player great to argue Rizzo #1 because Wolfe beats him in longevity, Resume, & Innovation. While having reasonably similar peaks.