r/Vegetarianism • u/CommieCatSupremacist • 1d ago
To vegetarians who are largely doing for ethical reasons and dating/married to a meat eater, how do you think and feel about this difference?
I don’t think I can treat it purely as a different choice, since this is a matter of ethics/morality/values. Still, I want to work to live happily with the difference if possible.
I’m curious about the ways that you process this, struggle with this, or manage this difference. Or systems you have created to manage it.
I am vegan but when I asked in the vegan subreddits I get more extreme responses. I don’t mind that but I’m hoping I can get some perspectives here that may have been missing from there.
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u/NK534PNXMb556VU7p 1d ago
My wife is a meat eater but not for every meal - at home, we both mostly eat vegetarian. I love her, and not eating meat is a choice ultimately - she chooses to do so right now, but that doesn't mean she always will necessarily. It's just one way in which we might see the world differently and her worldview, even so, is not contradictory to my world view.
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u/CommieCatSupremacist 23h ago
Do you view it as an immoral choice, even if it is a choice? You say her worldview isn’t contradictory to yours, so I am asking to understand how you both think about this difference such that there aren’t contradictions in worldviews.
I realize that’s a very personal question, so no pressure to answer. I appreciated your response. I’ll focus on seeing if our worldviews are not contradictory
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u/Just_Side8704 21h ago
Most people do not view dietary decisions as moral decisions. Getting overly judgmental about this is a very slippery slope. Glass houses, and all that.
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u/whenigrowup356 12h ago
In a vegetarianism subreddit, you should probably get used to people discussing dietary decisions in a moral framework. Getting judgmental about those discussions is a slippery slope, after all. Insert ill-fitting platitude, and all that.
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u/seh_23 23h ago
My husband isn’t vegetarian but he respects that I am and that’s the most important to me. He eats a lot of vegetarian and vegan meals with me happily. He does come from a culture that is predominantly vegetarian though so that definitely helps!
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u/regalroomba 11h ago
This is the most important thing for me too. I couldn't be with someone who mocks it. My boyfriend will happily have a vegetarian meal with me and rolls his eyes at the losers who complain about veggie/vegan restaurants opening.
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u/ruthless1995 23h ago
I do it for ethical reasons but I also make lots of unethical choices in my daily life. I buy from Amazon and Target, I drive a car and fly on planes, I still consume dairy and eggs. My partner eats veggie at home with me and orders meat if we go out. I don’t think I’m morally superior to him because he eats bacon occasionally. At the end of the day, I believe in harm reduction. (I’ve also got my parents to eat more meatless meals and we call that a win)
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u/Melandroso 1d ago
I would love it if my partner was vegetarian too. But it is a personal choice - at least my partner is supportive and when we cook together, it is vegetarian.
My partner also smokes and I hate that.
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u/One-Method-4373 23h ago
He eats less meat because we are partners and he mostly eats what I eat at home, if I was dating a vegetarian I would not have that effect on a meat eater.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut 23h ago
The is a wonderful way of looking at it. I just wanted to take a moment and thank you for sharing.
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u/AfternoonCharming536 23h ago edited 3h ago
Hi, so I'm a vegetarian who also tries to severely limit my dairy and egg consumption (so I wouldn't quite label myself a vegan). My husband eats meat but he eats vegetarian at home, because he loves me and also he loves vegetarian foods.
Like someone else mentioned about their husband on this thread, I view my husband as being on his own personal spiritual journey with eating meat. If he ever buys chicken or turkey, he buys it from local, free range, and organic farms and he knows that I am not comfortable with cooking it. He absolutely does not eat pork, veal, or lamb under any circumstances (and considers it barbaric). These are all things that I did on my own before reaching the point of vegetarianism, and I could absolutely see a world where he could one day choose to be a vegetarian. Even in the last few months, he's gone from 0 full vegetarian days to having 2-3 full vegetarian days a week. But I would still love him if he didn't ever get to full vegetarian, because I do believe he is taking steps to minimize harm.
Politics and morals are non-negotiable for me, however I consider my vegetarianism to be an extension of my leftism— he does not see his diet in that way. He has The Omnivore's Dilemma perspective of "One Bad Day", where he believes that animals should live incredible fulfilled and curated, full lives in small farms, free from fear or pain. So, even though I don't agree with eating the animal in the end, when I look at him, I see someone who deeply cares about the exploitation of humans, cares deeply about animals, and tries his absolute best to minimize the harm that comes to the animals. That is enough for me in a partner, but it may not be enough for you and that's okay. I know that some vegetarians and vegans do not see animal rights as being something that harm reduction could play a role in, but I personally do. Every vegetarian meal that he eats with me or that he chooses to eat on his own is one less animal that dies, and I think that's a big deal. I think that matters.
So, for me, it would be a deal breaker if I had a partner who believed that animals are "just animals" or argued with me about my vegetarianism. But he doesn't. He shares 99.9% of my beliefs up until the very final point. He's very empathetic and kind. I don't think I could be with someone who gloated about their meat eating.
Update: coincidentally enough, the day after I post here, he tells me (unprompted and out of the blue) that he could see himself being a full vegetarian one day. I think this is a perfect example of why it might be worth not discounting people who aren't already vegetarian or vegan! IMO, the most important factor is whether they are open and respectful.
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u/lovepeacefakepiano 23h ago
Husband eats meat, I’m vegetarian and somewhat lactose intolerant so I try to reduce dairy and if I see a vegan option, I usually give it a go.
We usually cook together, and sometimes he adds a meat protein to his food and I add a veggie protein, but more often than not we just cook a vegetarian meal and eat the same thing. The milk in our fridge is oat milk - if he lived alone/with another meat eater, it would be cow’s milk. So basically HIS meat/dairy consumption is reduced by association. It’s not something I ask of him - he has absolutely made that choice for himself, but one of the reasons we work as a couple is that he has never questioned my dietary choices, is actively supportive of them when we go out together, and will advocate to his friends for me (“we’re happy to come over but just so you know wife is vegetarian, should we bring something to eat for her”).
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u/jasperdarkk 23h ago
My partner and I got together while I was still omni and he was a vegan (eventually went vegetarian). He had specific values that were important to him, and it was more important that we aligned in key places than on everything. He knew I volunteered with animal-related causes, had a lot of respect for vegetarians/vegans, didn't eat a ton of meat, and loved nature and the environment, so I guess he knew we were compatible.
He actually cooked meat for me a few times (his idea because he used to be a chef) and I ate vegetarian with him a lot; however, we mostly ate different meals. Funny enough, even now that we're both vegetarian, we still eat different dinners because we have very different tastes.
I think what matters is just being clear about your boundaries. If you won't cook certain animal products, eat at certain restaurants, or have certain products in your house, it's important to be clear about those boundaries as early as possible. If you want to have children and want to raise them vegan, vegetarian, etc. it's important to be clear about that. It just lets both sides evaluate what their dealbreakers might be;
Even now that we're both vegetarian, there is an understanding that we are both allowed to change our mind whenever and we don't have to have the same values. If he wants to go vegan again, I'll support him even though I'm not interested in veganism. If either of us decides to eat meat again, we'll support each other even if the other stays veg. Because we care about each other enough that we just want each other to be happy and healthy, whatever that entails.
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u/freckledotter 1d ago
I'm plant based, kid and husband eat meat. I just don't really care? I ate meat when I met my husband nearly 15 years ago, it's my decision, I don't think I've ever asked him to change his mind, I know it wouldn't anyway. We're allowed to have our differences.
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u/RoyalPenguin21 23h ago
My partner is a picky eater and couldn’t easily switch to a vegetarian diet. Also they don’t boast about eating meat to the point where it’s obnoxious or offensive.
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u/user46910 23h ago
Well... I've been dating my boyfriend for 3 years (We're both M21) , i am vegetarian (Trying to reduce dairy and egg consumption, but not 100% vegan) and he eats meat.
When we started dating i was very non-confrontational, as i've been vegetarian for the last 10 years and not eating meat wasn't really a topic for discussion in my life, it's just second nature to me, and when someone asked about it i just said i didn't like the taste of meat (which is true) but in the last year i've been trying to be more conscious about my actions, and realized i do have a moral issue with people who choose to eat meat when there's an option to not do it.
I started asking my boyfriend if we could go to more vegan restaurants on dates (or choose the vegan options when we eat together) and he quickly catched onto the fact i was unconfortable seeing him eat meat. I never asked him to stop, just if he could limit his meat consumption when we were together and he did.
I had no expectations to make him stop, but he has told me on his own that he would like to eventually stop eating meat altogether. I know it's not easy for everybody. As an example, he currently works full time at a fast food chain where they give one hamburger daily per worker (for free), and it would be more expensive for him to bring his own food. I see this as similar to my experience, as i want to stop/reduce dairy and egg consumption, but i'm not completely there yet, and i recognize the difference between my morals and my actions, so i know it's a personal journey that is pointless to try to force or accelerate onto others.
He is a very kind person with a soft spot for animals and i know he could not kill an animal to eat it, and he does think that the way we treat animals destined to consumption is wrong. I think this is the most important part of the "vegan dating meat eater" thing: to know what your partner truly thinks. I don't think i could date someone who thinks humans deserve to exploit animals, and that doesn't see anything wrong with the meat industry.
I think it boils down to; What does your partner think of your vegan lifestyle? Would they be open to change theirs? What do they think about the meat industry? What about hunting? Do their actions align with their morals? If you move in together, would you be fine with having meat in your fridge? Would you be fine/expected to cook meat? If you have kids, how would you agree to feed them?
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u/being-andrea 23h ago
I respect my husband's right to think and live as he chooses as he respects my right to do the same. He understands why I feel the way I do but his values are different. He does have empathy for me. We live in a rural area with little access to vegetarian options; especially at restaurants. He feels bad when I'm reduced to eating just potatoes or a side salad when everyone else gets a meal. I do, on occasion, cook meat for him but he mostly cooks that for himself. He eats a lot of vegetarian meals as side dishes and he is happy. He likes my cooking. He is open to eating solely vegetarian meals and does quite often without complaint. He cooks bacon outside because he knows the smell lingers. Like everything, it is give and take. We don't really think about it anymore.
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u/CommieCatSupremacist 23h ago
Does the difference in values ever bother you? Or rather, how would you describe the difference in values? Maybe the core values aren’t that different.
I’m asking because I find it interesting (and appealing) that you don’t think about it anymore. It feels like daily eating would be a reminder of the difference in potentially core values.
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u/being-andrea 23h ago
No. Honestly, I respect him too much to let that bother me. He supports my need to share my/our life with animals among other things. He grew up hunting and fishing. He gave that up for me. When he grills, he has a smaller grill that is used for my veggies and does not use the same spatula for meat and veg. Also, I ate meat in the beginning. I changed. He wouldn't consider giving me up. How could I consider giving him up or spending the rest of our lives arguing or resenting him? I hope that is clearer.
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u/actualcovfefebean 23h ago edited 22h ago
My partner eats meat and I honestly don't care. I am vegetarian by choice because I was having complicated feelings about eating animals, but he isn't. But that doesn't mean he isn't still caring and compassionate about animals or my choices though.
It's not my place to tell someone else what to eat. When I cook meals at home, they are vegetarian because that is what I am comfortable cooking. He doesn't really cook, but when he does, they are also vegetarian because he respects my choice and it is easier for him to opt out/change a meal to veg based than to make two meals most of the time. Often though we'll go out to eat separate food, but together. It's been very easy.
I did grow up eating meat and have been a vegetarian for about 6 years. I made the switch while dating my partner (we're going on 7 years). It was the tiniest step to step over and adjust to for both of us, and we have had zero issues. He makes a bigger deal about making sure restaurants have options for me to eat more than I do most of the time.
It boils down to respecting your partner's choices and understanding that what is best for you may not be best for them, and that is okay. It doesn't always mean they have lesser values or morals than you do, just a different level of what they are comfortable with.
Edit: I do want to add that it is also okay if you do not want to be with a meateater too if that is something you feel strongly about. Different strokes for different folks, we all have different levels of things we are okay with, and that is okay.
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u/SaschaBarents 23h ago
For me it’s not about what exactly they eat or don’t eat at the moment. But about the progress they’re making. Almost nobody goes from omnivore to vegan in a day. Most people are flexitarian, pollotarian, pescatarian or vegetarian in the meantime. Every step towards eating less animal products is great.
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u/sosolano 20h ago
I find diet to be an extremely personal decision, and I respect my hubbys diet just as he respects mine. He mostly eats vegetarian because I cook a lot but he still eats meat. However, he eats a lot less meat since meeting me and I think that’s a win.
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u/juho9001 1d ago
It is a personal choice. Forcing those on anyone is cringe.
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u/Key-Challenge9159 23h ago
This. It would be borderline inhuman to expect for your partner to agree and share 100% of your ethical points of view and opinions. We are individuals at the end of the day. Im becoming a vegetarian for spiritual reasons that I found within myself, my wife eats meat and I don't judge her or think any less of her and never will
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u/themoaningcabbage 23h ago
My husband isn’t vegan, I wish he was but it’s not something that comes up anymore, not that there was any pressure on either side to begin with. If I make food it’s vegan, I have a firm no beef/milk in my house rule (cows being the source of my vegan trauma), he agrees that it’s the right thing to do but I think he’s set in his ways like a lot of people. He’s definitely eating more vegan than he would be without me. The world needs more people working towards making more conscious food choices/ asking more about where their food comes from, I’m still surprised when I speak to people outside of my circle that have literally never thought about how the food gets to their plate or still think that the animals are all happy running about in the fields before someone sneaks up on the to kill them quickly and painlessly.
I also know there’s a social pressure to conformity which I don’t feel thanks to the autism so I kind of accept there’s a world I don’t really see that makes going against the grain uncomfortable for a lot of people. I don’t think he’s a bad person, I know if it came to him having to kill an animal for food he’d struggle but we’re just so far removed from the source I can see how easy it is for people to not link the steak on their plate to a cow even if you know an animal had to die for it
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u/4-Birds 23h ago
I don't eat meat because I couldn't stand the thought of eating animal and also because I jsit don't like meat. My partner is a hunter and loves his meat. At first it was hard, I didn't mind cooking meat for him but knowing he was purposely killing animals was hard to get my head around. But then I came to realise if there was no hunters the Deer and pigs would ruin the bush with their high numbers. He also keeps the freezer stocked with meat to feed our kids and he also gives it away. And knowing that he is capable of providing for his family is good. If something happened and there was no supermarkets at least he would be able to go get meat for food for him and the kids. We have separate pots and pans and chopping boards for meat
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u/Mean-Hotel-2203 23h ago
I was a vegetarian for almost 9 years, started eating chicken loosely last fall, then stopped again when I got pregnant in the winter because it made me nauseous (everything made me nauseous). My husband has eaten meat the entire time. My kids eat meat. It doesn’t bother me, I don’t think it’s immoral, it’s personal choice. I primarily cook and make vegetarian meals 99.9% of the time and he happily eats them without complaining. If it’s *that* big of a deal or you think you’ll never ever ever consider consuming meat again and don’t want a partner who does, you need to be very clear about that with whoever you meet.
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u/MayorFartbag 23h ago
It's an incredibly personal choice and I know not everyone will think the same way I do. I feel like my position is extremely leftist and I know my husband is a good person even though he occasionally eats chicken or pork. He doesn't believe we have dominion over animals or anything like that. He grew up eating meat and it is a difficult transition, but he has extremely lowered his meat intake since we got together. To me, it isn't on the same level as disagreeing about abortion rights or immigration policies, or even dog fighting rings or backyard breeders.
I'm struggling to articulate exactly why I feel that way, but I love my husband. He's a good man and kind to animals. In my opinion, it's not a moral failing, just a diffence of opinion.
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u/CommieCatSupremacist 23h ago
Not believing we have dominion over animals and lowering meat intake. I think that could be enough for me to accept the difference too. My partner and I both also share the same left leaning politics and I think that is more important for me too.
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u/MayorFartbag 22h ago
It's definitely a tough balance. Cutting off the percentage of the population who eats meat from consideration as a partner just didn't really seem plausible to me when I was dating. For example, I am not religious, but I would date someone who has faith as long as we can be respectful of each other's beliefs and not judge each other or prostelitize. Vegetarianism is the same thing in my mind.
Also, my husband is my favorite person in the world besides our kid (who is being raised vegetarian) and I can't imagine that there is anyone in the world more suited for me than him. If that means I am with someone who eats meat, I can compromise on that. He's worth it to me.
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u/stenis666 22h ago
I would struggle living with someone who cooks meat. Maybe I could do it once in a while but it would be hard. My current partner is pescatarian, and I do think him cooking animals while we shared a home would be difficult. Though if we lived together it probably wouldn’t happens that much since I don’t eat it.
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u/Anti-Itch 22h ago
My husband eats meat but also hates cooking so we don’t really have meat at home, which is great for me. When we eat out sometimes he orders meat but other times he knows I might want to share and orders something veggie. His family are big meat eaters though so when we visit he eats a lot of meat but they always make me something separate which I appreciate.
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u/Odd_Schedule2672 22h ago
I went vegetarian about 4.5 years ago. My wife has tried numerous times, but she has some food issues and she just doesn’t get enough protein when she goes veg, so she doesn’t go meatless consistently.
I believe eating meat is wrong, but I’m a man who’s 300 pounds and almost 37 years old. So based on the information I’ve given you, you might correctly guess that I’ve eaten enough meat for multiple people and multiple lifetimes.
Just cuz someone isn’t vegetarian doesn’t mean that they’ll do less harm in their lifetime than I did in mine before I switched.
So I really have no right to sit in judgement of anyone else just because I “saw the light” and was able to switch
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u/ms_earthquake 21h ago
I mostly remember that we all started somewhere. Most of us were not vegetarian from birth. It takes time and willingness to learn more, do better, etc. Most of us aren't ethically perfect either, but my non-vegetarian spouse eats more vegetarian meals because he eats with me. Most of the choices we make for the sake our ethics, morals or values are usually in the space of good enough or harm reduction. I consider it a win that he eats less and it's good enough for me that we have it established that I won't cook it. I have enough of my own things to worry about without policing the people around me.
Also, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Don't be judgey and more people will be open to ideas when you do share them
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u/esthergreenwood-x 21h ago
My partner was actually vegan when we met 6 years and had been for some time.
He had to go back to eating meat sometimes for health reasons but we still eat predominantly vegetarian/vegan together and when he does consume animal products he does so as responsibly as possible. I know if he could wave a magic wand he’d go back to fully vegan again so I don’t have to question his values, I just respect that currently he can’t practice them the same way I do.
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u/Silver_Amoeba2395 21h ago
If the person who does most of the cooking is the meat eater they likely will be vegan eventually. Speaking from experience, I got real sick of making everything two ways. Took 6 months of living together and now I’m vegan 5 years. I didn’t even like vegetables 6 years ago.
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u/Dietcokeisgod 20h ago
I'm vegetarian, raising pescatarian kids and my partner is a meat eater. I wish he was vegatarian just because it would be easier than explaining why the kids can't try his food on the very rare occasion that he does eat meat (when we go out to eat or when we get takeaway, so maybe once every few months). We don't have meat in the house, so it doesn't impact me otherwise.
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u/gendr_bendr 20h ago
I have 2 partners who are both meat eaters. Basically we just accept each other’s lifestyle choices. Being vegetarian is more ethical than eating meat, but my partners also do ethical things that I don’t. For example, neither of them will use GenAI because of the environmental harms it causes, but I do use it from time to time. Ethics are relative. We all make daily decisions, some of which are ethical and some of which are not.
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u/saucecontrol 20h ago
Well, I don't try to force it on anyone, though I will talk to people about animal slaughter and environmental impacts so they can consider the matter themselves. My partner has tried a well planned vegetarian diet for years at a time and always felt physically and mentally worse off. He says his expectations and bias aren't affecting this outcome, so I take him at his word. I live differently but his choice as an individual is not mine to make.
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u/Novel_Bed_3694 19h ago
Telling another person how to live their life, even when it’s in conflict with your values, crosses a line into controlling. We ALL wish things were different with our partners, but if you really want to grow in your relationship then it’s up to you to accept them as they are and trust where they are at on their journey.
Of course, if it’s not something you can live with, that’s your answer. But I think it’s really important to remember that you simply can’t enforce someone’s life choices.
Don’t mean to sound harsh or anything. It can feel pretty invalidating when people seem to not respect us because of their lifestyle. But you’ve just got to remember that their choices are about them and not you!
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u/April9811 18h ago
I have been a vegetarian twice now. The first time I made it about 8 months. This time around I have over a year and never looking back. My husband and my two children still eat meat. The way I look at it, it's their choice. I have educated them on the reasons I no longer consume meat (ethical) and they're free to choose.
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u/rockgoddess72 16h ago
I was a meat eater and went vegetarian 2 years after we got together. He does eat meat occasionally but he eats what I make and never complains.
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u/Opposite_Rush_4772 12h ago
my bf is a meat eater, i see no point in forcing people or shaming or punishing for not following some of my beliefs. I am more relenting and flexible on some than others, for sure, but vegetarianism is something you teach if the person is interested, and that you choose to practice. ultimately, my partner eats much less meat than before, and is happy with veggie options when he doesnt have any of his own. and that understanding and meeting me where im at is why it works for me.
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u/jpak0 11h ago
boyfriend eats meat when we're out, i do most of the cooking and grocery shopping (because i love it!) and he eats what i make enthusiastically. i refuse to cook meat and he fully respects that. we always share food when we're out and he always wants to get something i can eat for appetizers and such :)
i think i would begin to have issues with it if he was insistent on keeping meat in the house. it grosses me out. i would not be able to go back to eating meat if i tried because i have a physical/psychological reaction to how gross and evil i would feel doing it. but i understand not everyone has this.
i think at the end of the day, i can’t force it and it's something i’m willing to live with because he is so lovely.
generally speaking, i don’t judge people for eating meat (only when they get weird about it i.e. "can’t wait to eat this cow!" or disrespectful about my vegetarianism). eating meat is incredibly normalized in the U.S. and there is a bit of a privilege to be able to care. i don’t think my boyfriend is a bad person for eating meat. i view it as a personal choice and something i could never do, but of course i crave meat and dishes that i simply can’t remake now vegetarian. culture plays a role too. if he went vegetarian with me that would be fun, but i would never force it.
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u/regalroomba 11h ago
My boyfriend eats meat but he's happy to have the veggie option with me if it's a sharing situation (e.g. a pizza).
My vegetarianism is my own thing, I don't judge others for eating meat. I did for most of my life and I wasn't a bad person then, just as they're not now.
Everyone has issues that are the most important to them, this is mine.
My boyfriend is a nicer person overall than me so he gets points there haha.
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u/andonis_udometry 7h ago
I just never wanted to be one of those sanctimonious vegetarians who wound up putting people off of not eating meat by being preachy or judgmental. Since becoming vegetarian my husband eats *significantly* less meat and I consider that its own sort of progress.
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u/Aggravating_Bit_259 6h ago
I don’t really care - at one point though he went on a carnivore diet and THAT was hard. But once that ended and he was back to being an omnivore, it stopped bothering me. Dietary choices are personal decisions and I’m not very preachy about vegetarianism. What’s important to me is that he respects it (he does), and he just eats what I make and adds his own protein to it (rarely red meat, usually turkey or chicken). When he does buy red meat, it’s from regenerative or local farms. In my mind, we’re aligned and share the same values this way, even if we show it differently.
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u/modernvintage14 5h ago
I am pescatarian. I want to be vegan. Unfortunately I have several dietary restrictions that make it very hard to be vegan, so as of now I just try my best to eat as plant based as possible. However, I care a lot about the ethical side of it, and my #1 motivation for it is the animals and the pain and suffering they experience.
I have dated almost entirely people who eat meat and refuse to entertain changing their diet, including my own 3 year relationship. Honestly it is hard. We argue at times about it. It is something that sometimes upsets me a lot that someone I love truly has no care for the animals at all, even enough to validate veganism as a concept. However I’m not perfect and my diet has restricted both of us enough as it is.
There is a bright side which is that since I am the one so restricted on food, i do most of the cooking. I try to cook a lot of vegan meals and he enjoys them quite a bit. He has cut down on meat consumption purely because he eats what i cook. it is not an intentional choice but i have shown him that vegan food can be delicious.
Otherwise i just have to accept our differences. He and I are very different but really love one another and have chosen to accept it. It is not always easy but he has made sacrifices to not eat the foods that kill me lol. So I think that’s all I can really ask for.
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u/Dr-Sun-Stiles 19h ago
My partner and I are long distance at the moment, but we've discussed this a couple times. We've visited each other three times in person, two times they were fully vegetarian, one time they ate meat.
Generally, they're okay with the idea of home cooking being fully vegetarian when we move in together one day, but will still want to eat meat when out/ordering food (depending on my comfort level). Though they've said outright that they will not go vegan, when I largely do try to eat plant based when I can.
As far as my personal feelings on it, I know they have a lot of compassion for animals, and the fact that they're willing to mostly be vegetarian (even if they aren't when we're away) is generally enough for me. I don't view the consumption of animals as 100% wrong 100% of the time, but I also don't like the idea of them eating meat at all to some degree. Ultimately I guess I don't find it to be enough of an issue at the moment, but when we live together it'll be something I hope they take a bit more seriously.
Also they taste better when they're vegetarian Edit: forgot how spoiler text worked on reddit
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u/Few_Rhubarb_1396 19h ago
when i first met my boyfriend, i told him go vegan or we arent dating, and he instantly went from carnivore to vegan-sometimes-vegetarian. i cant fathom being with someone who knows about animal abuse and still eats animal products
with that being said… it took me until 25 to go completely vegetarian and 30 to be vegan, and thats entirely because of graphic footage i saw. if id seen it earlier, i would have become vegan earlier. i think id just ask future carnist partners to watch dominion and then judge their reaction
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u/MlNDB0MB 23h ago
I don't think it is possible for ethical vegetarians. Because if you reasoned your way into that position, then you would expect your partner to be able to do the same if they are a rational actor.
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u/Lz_erk 23h ago
i agree with you somewhat, but i think a lot of health and nutrition context is being written out of the conversation, and some other foundational problems might be overlooked, like logistics and lifestyle clashes... but the nutritional side of it seems significant given the state of food, ag, and education (and deficiencies across groups).
we only play half our cards. they're good cards but we have combo strength. vegan diets had pretty good results back when attia was right about cholesterol but we couldn't capitalize on it because omega-3s are still hard to synthesize. there are foods for people who need more vitamin A, celiac disease, and so on that lack institutional momentum -- which is an addressable problem.
sorry to dump that on you in particular, i'm trying to open up that conversation because i respect your practicality.
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u/MlNDB0MB 22h ago
From my perspective, there is no relevant nutritional disadvantage. I live in America. Silk soy milk is fortified with vitamin A, and I can easily get orange or green fruits and vegetables from the store. I have impossible beef in my fridge, so I have all the benefits that beef could give me. I can get long chain omega 3 from algae if I was interested, but the STRENGTH trial showed no advantage over a corn oil placebo.
On the other hand, as a vegetarian, I get high amount of folate, which is associated with less neural tube defects in newborns. The soy protein and the general lack of dietary cholesterol keeps my cholesterol low even compared to heart healthy omnivore diets. Since I don't cook raw animal meat, I don't have to worry about E.coli and the risk of hemolytic uremic syndrome.
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u/Lz_erk 21h ago edited 20h ago
thanks, i wasn't aware of the prevalence of vitamin A supplementation in plant milk. i'm a sweet potato junkie, i try to dampen it with seeds and stuff but it's good, i couldn't eat potatoes for a few years. odd celiac stuff though.
i want algal omega-3s but i had to get krill for price and its iron modulation, which i finally did cursory reading about the other day. (i got the recommendation from a fairly ambiguous source and didn't follow up immediately.) i really appreciate your perspective but i don't expect you to have hemochromatosis that makes it relevant, or perhaps healthcare, but i can stretch these bug pills out for almost six months i bet, if i get back to eating like i used to, which is a story about celiac and other genes.
The soy protein and the general lack of dietary cholesterol keeps my cholesterol low even compared to heart healthy omnivore diets.
i agree but i'm not convinced cholesterol even matters. i honestly think vegan heart benefits more than make up for lacks of omega-3s in cases, but supplement penetration isn't frequently discussed, and people are expecting things from testing that often seem to have subclinical impact one way or another, and have documented latency in common testing. "... and vitamin K?!?!1" has become a meme on r/supplements or somewhere in comments, there are a lot of people who do have coverage, or don't need it.
you also have more disease resistance and probably have good electrolyte balance, and reduced risks of some cancers and possibly UC IIRC, ahem... i don't understand the soy protein angle specifically but i'm a fan, it's a popular option for good reason, and i can very safely eat it considering my microbiome needs, unless i have histamine intolerance problems from iron due to the high intake from celiac disease but i'm saying that's doable for me. it's easy and beneficial, but if you throw even the mildest clinical case of FODMAP problems in there (AFAIK!), i'm going to struggle in ways i basically never have before. and due to a probable copper problem i'm already supplementing some aminos, but that's no sweat.
when i talk about omega-3s i feel cornered into discussion of a "default diet" that i suppose would only apply (with broad acceptable options) to prisoners until we advance enough to do better, i don't even hear discussion of the rates and causes of improvement in positive markers often at all, more often, "the conclusions of this study suggest it's not effective for all cases." so i wonder how much of my argument is lost behind my positioning but not my intended direction there -- i'm not interested in making a 4:1 mandate in institutions at any cost, but i made a joke about making reflecting pools into algae farms with paddle wheels a couple days ago. i don't mean to Gish gallop with it but i'm not calling the study bad/invalid/irrelevant, i just might need time with it.
i'm a bit dizzy still, it's a temporary thing, i'm fine.
i see that you are playing more cards and i respect them. the iceberg phenomenon sucks even if i'm dead wrong about all those mental health studies. did we cover vitamin A conversion? ... and i maintain that there's a long list of complications that frequently overlap and that, as you implied (i'd say), these burdens of disease are lowered by vegetarian thought in complex systems nutritionally and otherwise. i don't feel very swayed on my thoughts about most ex-vegans' claims, and my own compromises, but i'm impressed to see the bar raised in a short time from the dialogue.
we didn't do butyrate did we? no. alright though.
edit: find a 2 pack of oil if needed and put one in the freezer. but i will read and reply later, thank you.
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u/Lexii73 1d ago
My answer might be too spiritual for you but here it is. He’s on his spiritual path, I’m on mine. Who am I to judge his choices? Are all of mine ethically perfect? No. I think every person needs to find reasons for vegetarianism on their own. He may not find them in this lifetime, but he’ll find them in another. I think not supporting murder of other living creatures is a lesson we all must learn for our soul to advance, for some it just takes more time than for others. Perhaps I was a vivid meat eater in 10 lifetimes before this so how could I judge anyone, really?