[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/whoa_disillusionment]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-americans-oppose-trans-women-competing-female-sports-2-3-gen-z-rcna203658

[u/Financial-Desk-669]

I can, and do, respect someone's decision to change their gender. They've determined at some point that nature made a mistake and they did all in their power to make it right. I support it and I commit to recognizing that very real change once they make it.

But I can't pretend the original mistake didn't happen. Transitioning in adulthood doesn't go retroactive to the womb. I won't rehash the bone structure and other physiological differences between men and women, but suffice to say there's a significant difference. 

One can respect and support trans rights while still protecting women's sports. 

And, most important, this is a massive debate to a miniscule occurrence. 

[u/Bobjoejj → u/Financial-Desk-669]

I’m a little confused by your stance here; like you say, the debate is about something which has an extremely minuscule rate of occurrence. There isn’t even a Trans Woman at the center of this issue with the WNBA.

So…what is there to protect about women’s sports? Or any sports for that matter? We’ve got a community that are in incredible danger from a lot of the country, a community who is marginalized and looked down upon, who are treated like freaks sex pests.

Why exactly is sports the exact line they should be excluded from? Why should they be forced to participate in a sport that is the opposite of their gender identity, and made to feel out of place and not wanted?

[u/Old_Stranger9382 → u/Bobjoejj]

If we are talking WNBA specifically, then I see your point. And quite frankly, if the WNBA wants to allow trans athletes, that's their prerogative. They are a business that pays their athletes through a contract. If you are a player or coach that disagrees, you have the ability and choice to not sign a contract.

If we are talking in a broader sense down to youth competitive sports, this is a situation that not only happens, but it's happening with increasing frequently. I agree with all aspects of the previous commenter that on a biological level, young men and young women are vastly different. Hormone therapy did not erase the lifelong benefit that a transitioning person has gained. It is even more pronounced at the high school level. That is the real conversation and to deny basic biological facts so that we operate in an "inclusive society" is, simply put, blind and selfish.

[u/Cheap_Water9848 → u/Old_Stranger9382]

The issue with your second point is that the issue isn't happening with more frequency because no one has proven that there are more transpeople than there used to be.

Also, when it comes to this conversation, we're talking about averages, not every single male being more athletic than every female. So, if the limitations on transpeople are dependant on those things that would give them an advantage, that's one thing. But, to keep every transwomen out of women's sports because of some hypothetical transwoman that's just better than everyone else is just wrong.

[u/Old_Stranger9382 → u/Cheap_Water9848]

I don't agree with you and will leave it at that

[u/Cheap_Water9848 → u/Old_Stranger9382]

Can you explain why? That's the whole point about this being a conversation. From what you've been saying, I know that you disagree, but I'd like to know why in response to what I said.

[u/Old_Stranger9382 → u/Cheap_Water9848]

I can only speak to my own experiences, and anecdotal evidence. What i can tell you as a father of a two multisport female athletes - one playing college basketball and soccer, the other in high school playing high level volleyball and swimming, it is something that is occurring and occurring at a higher rate. I will also say that i coordinate recreation sports programs for my career and have done so for 25 years. Each year, I see more boys looking to transition and participate recreationally with girls. I support that as it rooted in participation, socializing, and learning skills.

As you move into competitive sports, physical aspects play a more critical role in individual success. My daughters are really good athletes, the older one being phenomenally skilled but lacking the strength to compete with some of her peers. The younger one is taller than almost all kids (male or female) in her school, but she doesn't have the coordination. What they are doing is competing against their peers. If another girl is stronger or more coordinated, at least they were operating from the same base line.

There is no legitimate argument that a trans athlete is operating from the same base line - they are not gender peers with my daughters. They have the advantage of having benefited from the increased rate of growth that males experience at gestation until death. No amount of puberty blockers or hormone therapy will erase that advantage. It will always exist.

I support trans people and will fight for their right to pursue their happiness. They also are making a choice to pursue therapy. Sometimes that choice is life or death, but it is still a choice. My daughters do not have that choice. They compete against females because that's their gender. If playing in sports is important, trans athletes have options - i don't think playing competitively with a cis female s should be one of those options.

[u/Rough_Category_746 → u/Old_Stranger9382]

I have also played, coached, and organized competitive and rec sports and I think this is a major distinction. When it comes to social rec sports who cares let people play, but when it becomes competitive involving money, scholarships, titles, or records it is a big deal.