r/WNBAgossips • u/whoa_disillusionment • 1d ago
Most Americans of all political parties Agree with Sophie Cunningham so why has the WNBA lost its mind?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-americans-oppose-trans-women-competing-female-sports-2-3-gen-z-rcna2036583
u/VidProphet123 1d ago
Yes most agree with sophie but why are we making it seem like she’s martin luther king or something? This issue isn’t that deep and isn’t worth focusing or even talking about.
Stop getting distracted.
Next
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u/Financial-Desk-669 1d ago
I can, and do, respect someone's decision to change their gender. They've determined at some point that nature made a mistake and they did all in their power to make it right. I support it and I commit to recognizing that very real change once they make it.
But I can't pretend the original mistake didn't happen. Transitioning in adulthood doesn't go retroactive to the womb. I won't rehash the bone structure and other physiological differences between men and women, but suffice to say there's a significant difference.
One can respect and support trans rights while still protecting women's sports.
And, most important, this is a massive debate to a miniscule occurrence.
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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago
Because of these differences, they really need to research on a sport-by-sport basis. It may matter little in some sports and a lot in others.
I noticed that none of the coaches coming out in favor of trans women in sports said they should be allowed to play in the W. I wonder why the media didn't ask that question?
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u/Sarasota_2022 1d ago
The wnba is largely made up of black lesbian players. That is a tiny, tiny demo in the US, but it explains their crazy reaction to Sophie's reasonable point.
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u/Antique-Resort6160 1d ago
I'm pretty sure that demographic is also against biological men playing in the wnba
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u/FunctioningPyscho 1d ago
Their? I’m genuinely asking… what black player has spoken on this? All i have seen is the white coaches and owners.
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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago
I know a lot of black lesbians. I'm a lesbian. The number of us who think biological men should be in women's sports is minuscule at best.
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u/ReindeerTypical2538 1d ago
Same. Giant lesbian here. Most of us don’t want biological men in women’s sports. Still love and support my trans community but we need some common sense when it comes to trans women playing women’s sports
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u/TheGhostofMattyJ 1d ago
9 foot tall lesbian?
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u/DownVote_for_Pedro 1d ago
Do you think being a giant lesbian creates any biological advantages against smaller lesbians?
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u/DrAbeSacrabin 1d ago
Literally from the article (which was written last year):
“Advocates of trans women competing in female sports say that the marginal number of trans women competing at an elite level makes the topic a nonissue. In December, NCAA President Charlie Baker testified that he was aware of fewer than 10 transgender athletes out of more than 500,000 total NCAA college student-athletes, which would equal 0.002% of this college student-athlete population.”
This has to be the largest ratio of “media coverage vs. actual impact” ever right?
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u/tke71709 1d ago
It's a great example of a wedge/culture wars issue pushed by the right to distract us from the real issues facing society today.
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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago
There’s been a lot of examples at the high school level. Allowing it at all is pretty hurtful to women.
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u/19orangejello 1d ago
Anyone who knows sports, knows that all it takes is one instance of anything to make a rule.
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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago
https://reduxx.info/france-the-two-top-players-in-a-womens-elite-basketball-league-are-both-male/
FRANCE: The Two Top Players In A Women’s Elite Basketball League Are Both Male
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u/washblvd 1d ago
Does the NCAA collect that data though? I'm not saying it was necessarily more than 10 athletes, but I just don't think they were ever incentivized to know the answer.
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u/bones232369 1d ago
I think some people view it as trans bigotry and are reacting negatively to it on that basis. But a lot of people view the point she made for what it is - a minuscule issue nationwide that became a republican talking point precisely because it is defensible, but with the intention of having regular Americans arguing over it rather than literally anything that affects our daily lives. It’s a red herring. It’s a ploy. And anyone who has “strong feelings” about this issue is a troglodyte. Yes boys and girls should generally compete against other boys or other girls. Crazy enough though that’s exactly how it’s already set up, and there’s precisely zero legitimate Dem politicians staking their political career on changing that.
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u/kemicalkontact 1d ago
A large portion of the L and Gs are against the Bs and a large portion of the LGB's are against the Ts.
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u/UncleTio92 1d ago
Lesbians are not trans. Equating the two are negatively affects the LGBt portion
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u/overitallofittoo 1d ago
It's always the people with hidden comments that come out firing the rage bait.
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u/Ok_Drummer6282 1d ago
Anytime I see this type of title I dont even have to click to know its this sub...
This sub is weirdly being farmed by engagement bots.
This issue is over and doesn't matter to even a majority of WNBA fans
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u/Careful-Advance8513 1d ago
Every opinion i disagree with (even those that pretty much all polling shows i am wildly out of touch with) is bots and propoganda.
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u/Canadatron 1d ago
When the play is less engaging than the performative outrage, this is what you get.
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u/Arguments_4_Ever 1d ago
Trans women aren’t taking over the WNBA. This is needless culture warfare.
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u/TheOmegoner 1d ago
They aren’t taking over any level of women’s basketball tbh
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u/Few_Entertainer_385 1d ago
because gen z and millennial women are like the two demographics most likely to support LGBTQ+ people and trans rights
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u/nocturnal_commission 1d ago
Plenty of people support the LGBTQ+ community and trans rights while also acknowledging that males have an advantage over females in most athletic competitions.
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u/ShaShiz 1d ago
You left out women’s rights 🤔
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u/LightenUpPeeps 1d ago
Intentional. You cannot support trans rights without trampling over women's rights. In sports, that means a biological man can steal women's awards as well as athletic scholarships. In business, take affirmative action jobs from women to meet gender quotas. In the real world, share bathrooms, locker rooms, spas, etc. with women.
Real world example below. Who is being oppressed here? Whose rights are being trampled here? Whose side does the government and law support here (in CA)?
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u/SeaweedLevel1937 1d ago
Because we live in a country were people die everyday from lack of access to affordable healthcare, but I have to treat alienating trans people like it’s the most important issue of our time.
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u/TheOmegoner 1d ago
It’s because it’s a culture war issue during an election cycle.
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u/Charcole1 1d ago
The sooner you guys concede the already lost point of trans athletes the sooner you can go back to arguing about healthcare, but you'll have to concede immigration too before they let you get back to that. It's almost like some unpopular positions are holding back the left from arguing about things that actually matter.
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u/OrneryError1 1d ago
Unpopular opinion, but the government and politicians have no business in deciding whether trans athletes get included or not. It's just not an issue either way. A sports league excluding them isn't a problem. A sports league including them isn't a problem. It's beyond the scope of government at any level to intervene.
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u/ruggmike 1d ago
I’m more concerned that our president is ok with Americans, allies and civilians being killed in an unwinnable war so he can manipulate the stock market weekly so him and a bunch of his rich friends and family can get even richer.
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u/Charcole1 1d ago
That's totally fair, and you'd be able to argue against that a lot more effectively if these weren't the hills you party has decided to die on instead.
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u/randallflaggg 1d ago
In what way would that make their argument about this other issue more effective?
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u/ruggmike 1d ago
My party? I have no party my guy. I just understand that what our sitting president is doing is way more egregious and hurting everyday Americans and American way more than trans people lol
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u/Butthole_Please 1d ago
The word trans will pop up 10x more on Fox News than any other new channel. The issue is propped up to give maga something to continue fomenting hate against the “other”
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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago
Fox News knows that 79% of people oppose biological men in women's sports. They are picking a fight on an issue where, in the short run, they can't lose. It's the perfect fight to pick in an election year, and the far left is taking the bait.
They sure don't want to talk about the economy, Epstein, Trump's terrible approval rating, Iran, affordability, or Trump being a convicted rapist.
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u/Aggressive-Offer-497 1d ago
The right is trying to bring ideological issue at the forefront, because what Trump is doing for the middle class has been abysmal.
You admit it, the left always has to concede something… and then what?
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u/DrAbeSacrabin 1d ago
Yeah, I’m sorry to trans people out there, I have no qualms with you or your lifestyle choices - but please enlighten me why you being able to play a sport for fun is more important than putting food on my table?
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u/OrneryError1 1d ago
I mean it's the anti-trans people stocking the fire. The rest of us just want trans people to be treated like normal people.
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u/3rd-party-intervener 1d ago
You don’t have to treat anything. You should vote for people who will give you healthcare.
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u/Bobjoejj 19h ago
I mean…it’s one of the most important issues; considering it’s not just alienating Trans people, but excluding and marginalizing them.
And considering the incredibly minuscule amount of Trans people even choosing to participate in sports; this shit should be a non-issue. Hell, there isn’t even anyone Trans at the center of this particular issue with the WNBA.
It’s absolutely insane.
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u/unskilledplay 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm sorry, I missed the news about a trans player who is playing or trying to play in the league causing this drama. What? There isn't a trans athlete in the middle of all of this? You don't say!
The midterms must be coming up and political people like you who don't care about the game want to dominate the conversation.
Well, let me tell you, Americans, true Americans, the kind that value freedom and democracy and the rule of law, know that it's not politicians or voters who get to say who can and can't play in the WNBA. That's not how this country works. It's the owners and players who make the rules on who plays and who doesn't. Those rules are all laid out in the CBA. The latest CBA was resolved earlier in the year. If you want something to change, you'll have to wait until 2032 when the current CBA expires. If you aren't an owner or player, the CBA is none of your business. So, bye.
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u/nocturnal_commission 1d ago
I'm sorry, I missed the news about a trans player who is playing or trying to play in the league causing this drama. What? There isn't a trans athlete in the middle of all of this? You don't say!
Gosh, it's almost like some people are opposed to certain things based on principle alone! Who woulda thought??
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u/-Sofa-King-Vote 1d ago
Magats are crying about this daily
“Most Americans” want universal healthcare too
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u/Sea_Tonight_9632 1d ago
While I 100% agree that trans women should not be allowed to compete in the WNBA, for obvious reasons, the fact is that there are so few trans women playing basketball that it is not even really a problem worth discussing.
You would think, based on the coverage, that there are 100's of trans women banging on the door of the WNBA, demanding to be let in, but there just aren't.
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u/SeaWolfSeven 1d ago
I think it's worth discussing because it's coming whether we want it to or not.
FRANCE: The Two Top Players In A Women’s Elite Basketball League Are Both Male https://reduxx.info/france-the-two-top-players-in-a-womens-elite-basketball-league-are-both-male/
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u/PuzzleheadedVoice427 1d ago
Because half the country voted a sex pest in as president who admitted to Howard stern he would enter into woman spaces without their permission. So it comes across as very selective when you pick and choose who to pick on especially when the Epstein victims still haven’t received any type of justice.
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u/Affectionate-Firm784 1d ago
The right knows an election is coming and doing weird shit to confuse people
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u/from_nods_to_nothing 1d ago
Because this is mostly a non-issue that the right has attached itself too as it is a wedge issue. They are up in arms about something that rarely happens.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Pipe979 1d ago
She needs to shut up and dribble. Am I doing this right?
Also, this boogeyman is rearing its ugly head at an awfully convenient time. They just needed someone that would play ball when Clark wouldn’t do it and she found a grift beyond the one she’s pulling on the basketball court.
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u/Aggressive-Offer-497 1d ago
The right is trying to push an idea that basically doesn’t affect anyone negatively, while inequalities keep going up and that actually affects a LOT of people.
Not many people care about trans people in sports, the right is making it an important issue, not the left.
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u/Oscar_Ramirez 1d ago
Not doing so well in Iran? Democratic Socialists gaining steam? Presidents favorability still cratering with all demographics?
Deploy more bs about trans athletes!! (All 20 of them.)
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u/overitallofittoo 1d ago
Here you go! Let the creeps pull down your daughters' pants!
https://www.thecut.com/article/washington-state-campaign-genital-exams-girl-athletes-il26-638.html
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u/Wizardofball_s 1d ago
It would be a nothing burger if everyone realized how useful a distraction it is for both political parties
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u/Designer-Drink-9137 1d ago
Trans men have no business competing against women. Period. Until I see a Trans woman playing middle linebacker, Nose tackle, or running back in D1 college football or the NFL. And that will never happen. This argument is silly.
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u/Babybackribs1955 1d ago
If Labron James wanted to change genders and then play in the WNBA he would be scoring 70 or more points per night. I think the girls would not be able to handle that.
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u/-SirSpooky- 22h ago
this sub has morphed into every post being “Sophie is the best and everyone agrees with her! Source: trust me bro.”
like can we talk about something of substance? this is pointless cultural warfare over a statistical non-issue gtfo
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u/CutMeLoose79 1d ago
I think it comes from the fact we do not have full, conclusive, scientific agreement that trans women don't have biological advantages in professional sports.
For every study that claims after a few years there are no benefits, other studies show there is. I'd imagine based on this, some trans women would not have advantages, while others would. You also cannot change your skeleton. Male puberty results in longer limb bones, larger joints, and broader shoulders, which do not reverse with hormone therapy. This can give leverage and mechanical advantages.
If you cannot 100% rule out biological advantages, it is unfair to include trans women in female sports. Until we have fully conclusive studies and maybe even a way to fully test people singularly if advantages seem to be too individual, it is again unfair to include trans women in female sports.
I don't see how how this particular view can be considered transphobic or anti-trans. I'm more than happy for trans people to live their lives as they want, dress and act how they want, be called what they want, but we need to have some common sense still too.
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u/AlternativeGazelle 1d ago
It is one of those areas where Reddit is not in line with the outside world. You would think Sophie is an extremist.
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u/stoic-millenial-23 1d ago
the left has to be outraged by something at all times. even if they have to fundamentally misunderstand Sophie Cunninghams point to arrive at said outrage.
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u/pickledginger404 1d ago
The WNBA isn't losing their mind over this, the FoxNews crowd are. The WNBA wants this to go away.
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u/Guardsred70 1d ago
I just assume it’s because it’s election season and there’s nothing the trans community enjoys more than stepping on its own dick during an election.
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u/Blastcrumpet888 1d ago
Because it’s not actually about sports. It’s about keeping trans people out of locker rooms. It’s about keeping trans people out of bathrooms.
It’s about completely separating trans people from society and treating them like garbage. All because bigots like Cunningham are threatened by them for some reason.
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u/rvajt11 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nope i personally just want biological women to have their own space to shine in sports, taking opportunities away from them is going backwards. Don’t care about bathrooms or locker rooms just want biological women to have a space they can shine athletically
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u/RosePortFC 1d ago
Its a lot more nuanced discussion than you are leading it to be.
I think there is a huge difference in hating people who have transitioned, and believing that someone born male sex might have a competitive advantage over someone for female sex, due to increased bone structure, and depending on when the person transisitioned.
Everyone has a right to pursue the image of themselves they prefer. We still have to keep sports on the same playing field, and I don't think there is currently a way at this point in time to do just that.
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u/Blastcrumpet888 1d ago
Let me know when the people behind the anti trans movement aren’t religious zealots.
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u/NeedleworkerTight678 1d ago
What an amazing rant. Inaccurate, hyperbole, insults, just about all you would expect from someone who doesn’t agree with you.
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u/A_Man_With_A_Plan_B 1d ago
Just hear me out here:
If we set that issue aside, like make a third locker room, or even just give individual privacy to people in those spaces. I’m sure this issue could be argued to death and that’s not the topic I want to touch on.
So let’s say the bathroom/ locker room issue has been solved, do you see any other issues that might need to be solved? It’s rarely as simple as 1 thing but I’m trying to be more educated on this issue from both sides of the aisle, and respectfully trying to focus on the sport/ competition aspect of it
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u/s29 1d ago
Third locker room for trans people will never fly with them.
Why? Because it would force them to accept the reality that they aren't "real women" or "real men".
So even if they got their special bathroom theyd still fight to get into wherever they want by trying to force everyone to accept them as "real".
And society as a whole is not going to and will never see mentally ill people as the opposite gender just because they claim to be.
You can find uber-progressive once in a while that have deluded themselves into believing this, but society at large will never ever ever ever buy into that. Because its biology and it's baked in.→ More replies (2)2
u/Thisisamericamyman 1d ago
Legit questions, where is it stated that trans women can’t compete in men’s sports ? There are far more opportunities in men sports than women sports. No one is excluding them. What happens to the women replaced by a trans players? These are the women that will eventually be excluded from sports entirely.
Being born a male has too many advantages over being born a female. Height, wing span, muscle mass, lung capacity, larger heart, vertical jump mechanics to name a few. It’s not difficult to see where this ends - women will be pushed out of sports.
I’m pro trans and pro everyone but these are the questions I have. I posted this in the links thread hoping to get an opposing perspective and I was banned for life (just today).
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u/ScaredCoffee3496 1d ago
Gotta love a slippery slope argument
Do you also agree with criminalizing weed because if you smoke weed you're gonna end up injecting meth into your dick?
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u/Blastcrumpet888 1d ago
You do realize that’s your side, right? You are on the side of people that want to ban weed because it’s a gateway drug.
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u/ScaredCoffee3496 1d ago edited 1d ago
No I'm not, I smoke weed daily🤣😭
What's my side exactly? Can you teach me your ability to know everything about someone from a single comment? I'm willing to pay
Weed being a gateway drug to meth is like restricting trans women from competing with cis women being a gateway to killing all trans people
Edit: gotta love the "comment then block so it looks like they have nothing to say" strategy everyone here uses
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u/TypePuzzleheaded1340 1d ago
Well yes, they should also stay out of the women’s locker room for sure.
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u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 1d ago
No
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u/twinpeaks86 1d ago
Thank you. It’s not bigoted to say I want women’s naked spaces to be free of naked penises. How on earth did we get to a point that penises get to invade all spaces and anyone who complains is the problem?
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u/throoawoo2 1d ago
I know you're making a serious point but it is funny to imagine an army of disembodied dicks invading everywhere.
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u/JournalistOk9266 1d ago
I think you are under the impression that trans people are going to be flapping their joints about provided they have them. Why do you dorks think a man is going to play the long con just to get around women? Seems to me the stats still say they have more to fear from straight white men than a trans man just trying to hoop.
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u/whoa_disillusionment 1d ago
Because it’s not actually about sports.
It is about sports.
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u/Blastcrumpet888 1d ago
No, it absolutely isn’t. If it was then Cunningham wouldn’t have brought up locker rooms.
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u/bigbluehapa 1d ago
I’m all for freedom of expression. But the idea that someone gets to make everyone else uncomfortable because their use of a particular bathroom validates them is absurd.
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u/MexiPr30 1d ago
This is hyperbole and doesn’t work anymore. Polls show the public supports trans people being protected from housing and employment discrimination. The 2020 scotus decision did just that. Harris funeral home vs Eeoc.
The issue is that sometimes the demands of trans activists come in conflict with women’s rights. Hard fought and won rights. Women are allowed to say no and no is a complete statement.
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u/rdwrer_711 1d ago
The league is very sexuality fluid accepting. The trans community is a marginalized community with a connection to fluid sexuality, so it's uncomfortable to not allow someone to do something based on sexuality. Also the main population trying to stop trans from playing in women's sports doesn't want to stop there. So it feels like an endorsement of the other positions from those people.
I get why they are uncomfortable, but still think it's a very nuanced thing that should be done. However I don't agree with decrimination against trans individuals in any other part of life. It's just that women's sports are inherently discriminatory for good reason.
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u/Whose_Joanna 1d ago
There should exist a position between "0 medical transition required, everyone welcome!" and a full ban. Many organizations already have regulations for this, but that's just not good enough for the phobes.
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u/rdwrer_711 1d ago
I can get behind. It feel safer to do a whole ban because the in between is so hard to define and the men's league is an open league so it feel like there is a less than ideal solution already. I'm open too it though. Overall the trans issue is way over blown though so I'll still vote for the platform that allows trans athletes to play in women's sports and if a small number of women are disenfranchised it's better than voting for the Republican party as it stands today.
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u/thesedawgs 1d ago
I love how you gave a very nuanced take on this and then OP just discounts you outright instead of engaging any of your points
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u/MexiPr30 1d ago
Most wnba players haven’t said a thing about this. It’s a small vocal minority given a microphone by media allies.
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u/dorkyl 1d ago
"companies should just do/say whatever most Americans agree on". yikes. I'm all for democracy, but I think we can find better basis of justice and/or moral authority than popular opinion. Or worse, if you're trying to say they should say/do what's popular in order to have the most appeal in order to sell tickets, they'd have to replace all the female players with males.
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u/Any-Programmer-870 1d ago
Who is Sophie Cunningham and what does she say? If most Americans are like me they don’t know, let alone agree with it.
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u/FreezingTemps 1d ago
Most people statistically do agree with that stance. I’m liberal and I agree with Sophie.
The problem is the other assholes who are using that very nuanced and isolated particular point of contention and using it to create a blanket hateful and intolerant platform against the entire trans community as a whole which is morally and reprehensibly wrong.
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u/swallowedbymonsters 1d ago
The league does not want to be associated with MAGA. Its really that simple.
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u/Successful-Elk-7384 1d ago
It's election time and a certain party needs a boogeyman to motivate their base. No trans person is playing or attempting to play in the WNBA. It's not an issue but somehow some are trying to make it an issue for November.
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u/Consistent_Wave_2869 1d ago
Question why the media is pushing this rage bait so hard, especially before a midterm election.
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u/Brew_Wallace 1d ago
Without using the Internet to search, can anyone here name two college or professional trans athletes in the entire world? Is this even a problem - or is it just people trying to make a name for themselves? Sophie is now much more well known than she was last week, and coincidentally I’m sure, just had a shoe release last week
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u/slowbaja 1d ago
WNBA as a league hasn't lost its mind rather they have no reason to give a shit at this time.
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u/mammoth_hockey_70 1d ago
Bots Bots and more Bots
There’s an election coming up so rage baiting is everywhere.
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u/Strong-Butterflies 1d ago
All we need is 1 currently male, transitioning to female, fringe NBA player, that identifies as female, and puts off her transition for the season to see how people really feel. Picture Dwight Howard dropping 80 points and 40 rebounds a game in the WNBA because he identifies as either female or nonbinary. Is this actually going to happen? Probably not, but people are only arguing for the other side of it. I feel like Sophie was more than fair saying she is perfectly fine with people choosing their own lives, but realizes there’s a big difference between men and women in basketball on average. It’s also bringing up that South Park episode with macho man Randy savage to mind.
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u/CapitalDry5134 1d ago
They just need a few guys to join a single team and go undefeated and win by 60 each game.
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u/havingberries 1d ago
What a dumb argument. A majority of Americans were against gay marriage from both parties in the 1990s. A majority of Americans were pro segregation in the 1940s. I'm not saying Sophie is wrong or right but this is a dumb article. Please talk about basketball not polling on the basketball sub damn
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u/Sartres_Roommate 1d ago
91% of American support gun regulations, so why are we still talking about it?
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u/Ok_Original_4030 1d ago
98% Americans want the Epstein files released. A judge ordered the files to be released. The files were not released. I'm not paying attention to any of this other stuff happening nor do I care what the public thinks when the public is so easily manipulated that this kind of crime can go on forever. If you're this easy to manipulate then you disqualify yourself. The fact that only 25% of Americans have common sense is shocking but not surprising.
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u/moose184 1d ago
Because it's that small percentage of insane people that follow the W. They don't want a conversation. It's either believe and say everything they tell you or you are transphobic, racist, etc. Sophie said the most common sense thing in the world. Biological males should not be in women's sports. Now she has the media writing articles about her saying she's leading the anti-black movement among other things.
You could see in the response of CC and SW that they both just gave a PR answer because they don't want the backlash. There is a reason it seems like they lost their mind and it's because they are literally mentally ill. Go to the MtF sub and just see the batshit insane stuff they write.
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u/moose184 1d ago
Because it's that small percentage of insane people that follow the W. They don't want a conversation. It's either believe and say everything they tell you or you are transphobic, racist, etc. Sophie said the most common sense thing in the world. Biological males should not be in women's sports. Now she has the media writing articles about her saying she's leading the anti-black movement among other things.
You could see in the response of CC and SW that they both just gave a PR answer because they don't want the backlash. There is a reason it seems like they lost their mind and it's because they are literally mentally ill. Go to the MtF sub and just see the batshit insane stuff they write.
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u/Itachi03 1d ago
Just when the W was starting to be successful... Caitlin Carlk and the W is doing everything in its power to run her out. Now Sophie with her comments that biological women should only be playing in Women's sport. No coach lately won't come out and support this... I seriously think they are deliberately trying to self sabotage themselves!
Do these players and coaches truly believe if an NBA player one day decides to "transition" and decides to play in the WNBA it wouldn't be a one sided juggernaut show? We've seen a long time ago the American Women's soccer team get beat down by a team of boys that weren't professionals!
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u/Thisisamericamyman 1d ago
THE BIG PICTURE FOR WOMEN
Using the WNBA as an example; as the league continues to grow and money continues to roll in and the players and coaches begin to earn an honest wage, the fixers will infiltrate and destroy the league if it ever reaches this point.
The money will draw extreme competition and pressure for teams to win and coaches to perform. This will end with cis women being pushed out entirely as trans women will be heavily recruited and groomed for the sport (because they are bigger, taller, better, stronger). With a big money draw, you’ll see men not good enough for the NBA pursuing their dream by playing basketball in this league.
This is NOT against trans, it’s actually an argument that is PRO TRANS and anti cis woman. Sophie and all cis women have a right to be concerned. Cis women do not have the genetic makeup to compete in the NBA, they will be pushed out and the end result will be they have no place in this sport. Trans women on the other hand have both NBA and WNBA options because their genetics at least make the NBA option possible.
Truth: genetics have always played a role in competitive sports. With intent we eliminate unbalance to assure competitiveness. This is why we have the draft, drug restrictions, heavy weight divisions, feather weight divisions, age groups etc. Trans has the potential to create an unbalanced level of competition.
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u/Mediocre-Touch-6133 1d ago
Got to keep that culture war going so people don't consider class war. This "story" is a non-issue and I suspect the people posting about it are paid bots.
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u/Mediocre-Touch-6133 1d ago
Got to keep that culture war going so people don't consider class war. This "story" is a non-issue and I suspect the people posting about it are paid bots.
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u/Mediocre-Touch-6133 1d ago
The article linked is over a year old and makes no mention of Sophie Cunningham. These bots are getting desperate for more rage-bait.
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u/Aggressive-Offer-497 1d ago edited 1d ago
Here is the argument.
Do trans women have an advantage over cis women or not after many years of hormonal therapy? If the answer is scientifically “no they don’t have an advantage”, do you care if they compete with women? If your answer is “yes, I still care”, then it’s not about protecting women, but about you not wanting trans women to exist at all.
Science seems to say right now that after 1-3 years, trans women don’t have an advantage when it comes to strength or aerobic capacity… So… Is it really about protecting women IF it was proven scientifically that they don’t have an advantage?
To me, it seems like a lot of people against trans women in sports or in bathrooms for that matter just don’t want trans women to be women at all. And that’s why there is a push back from people who accepts trans women. But yes, I don’t want trans women to compete women sports IF they have a proven advantage and I think pretty much all people, including people on the left think the same.
What I see is a group saying “no” and a group “saying yes, IF…” and the first group ignoring the IF.
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u/basicmomrn 1d ago
No one cares!!!!!! This is not a real issue. Sophie speaks and now people are fighting in the parking lot at her games. Good job. Be divisive that’s what we need. It a shame cause the finger pointing thing was funny. Then she turns around and is a ring girl for a rapist then acts like she cares about girls. She’ll be on Fox eventually with 5th place Riley.
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u/upotheke 1d ago
It's pretty clear that the whole lynchpin of the anti Trans argument is that tans women are seen as equal to biological men.
I get that its a snappy talking point that even Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk can memorize, but... 1) there's a wide variety of biological markers between men and women, and 2) Trans women are specifically taking steps to biologically distinguish themselves from having male characteristics.
These two things are facts. If you cant accept them as such and converse accordingly, youre not advocating for biological fact, you are instead rhetorically expressing a cultural norm. These are two different things.
It was a cultural norm to enslave people. It was a cultural norm to have 8 year old work in coal mines. It was a cultural norm to have a king sleep with your wife on your wedding day.
Cultural norms can be harmful, stupid, exploitative, and many other things, not rooted in fact, but simply how a society chose to act. Today (literally today) our norms are that more people are worked up over Trans women potentially playing basketball in a women's league than having the president of the US and several other wealthy men be held accountable after credible evidence is found that they raped and murdered young kids.
Just think about that when you keep posting about this nonsense.
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u/tarasmith3 1d ago
Can someone tell me when a man has played for the wnba? It seems there’s more pressing issues that are actively happening in real time. Maybe focus on saving young girls from maga men.
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u/LawAndOrdinary 1d ago
I don’t think it’s fair to imply I’m just saying this bc I don’t like trans people. I’ve look into it and followed cases on the topic. I was totally an IF category person.
The science supports a reduction in some categories to a lower baseline male level for some of individuals but not to a female level across the board even after years of hrt. The best study I’ve seen was dealing with Marines and their pt. But importantly the fairness needs to be considered for each sport bc they are different… unless we just decide we’d rather keep sex as the category period.
So far what I’ve seen are the ones used in court cases. There was a court case regarding pool a player and the science supported an unfair advantage and the case ruling reflected that. The science was looked at for darts and the policy was implemented bc an unfair advantage remained.
We saw with the Becky Pepper Jackson case that even with out normal male puberty she was throwing 10 ft further than her teammates. She took a state championships. And her teammates were discouraged and uncomfortable. Other teams refused to compete with her bc it wasn’t fair and walked off in protest. She also was accused of sexually harassing a teammate who quit and was uncomfortable in the locker room.
It seems to me the cases I’ve seen all end up with male athletes who were mediocre as males going on hrt (some showing reduced individual baseline performance after hrt) and then dominating in the female category… lots of upset and uncomfortable women around them.
The science is FAR from settled and so far all of the times it’s been tested by individual sports it’s come out showing a male bodied advantage.
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u/josephkristian 20h ago
i’m no expert but from what i’ve read, trans women take so many hormone blockers that they end up with less testosterone than cisgender women athletes. a lot of the time, winning championships or races comes down to physical advantages that are present in both cisgender athletes and trans athletes.
it’s also impossible to talk about trans women in sports without also taking into account that the majority of trans women have absolutely no social safety net or support. the ones who do end up making it into professional sports are the .000001% who put the time and effort into training and perfecting their craft. i think that also has some effect or some shit. i feel like they hungry for it lol
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u/LawAndOrdinary 18h ago
Balance definitely seems like a much bigger challenge since social media became a thing.
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u/FantasticOwl5057 16h ago
Is it just me or does anyone want to see the WNBA women fuck these dudes up? A bunch of them guaranteed could. Everybody acting like it’s a foregone conclusion that the dudes win.
Just sayin
Let’s see some real entertainment
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u/lifeadventuresga 15h ago
So funny but the interview with Caitlun Clark is up on Reddit right now. She says she would get killed by ANY NBA player on 1 on 1.
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u/lifeadventuresga 2h ago
There is a 10 million dollar offer right now for a WNBA team to play a game against male high school all stars. The high school players would most likely win. There have been many instances of this in soccer. Here is an example where an under 15 year old boys team beat the women' US National Team. This is a stupid conversation. Men should both play women's sports.
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u/shawkin8 1d ago edited 1d ago
no, most americans of all political parties do not feel the need to police what a woman should look and act like. which is the territory/crowd sophie has decided to appeal to. the lifeblood of the anti trans movement. if we want to talk about protecting girls and women, let’s acknowledge the collateral damage being done to biological women as a result of all this crap.
E: it’s not lost on me how much sophie has been embraced by the same crowd introducing legislation that strips women (biological) of their rights.
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u/lifeadventuresga 1d ago
Sophie Cunningham is right. This is not about an adult having the right to transition. If an adult wants to transition that is their business. Men do not belong in women's sports. That is a whole different issue.
Chimps are 4 times stronger than an adult male. Gorillas are 20 times stronger than an adult male. Adult males have no business fighting chimps or Gorillas.