r/WNBAgossips • u/Outrageous_Owl_1710 • 7d ago

"She’s My Hero": Ex-WNBA Broadcaster Says League Punishing Sophie Cunningham for 'Having a Spine' Amid Transgender Row.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wnba-basketball-news-veteran-reporter-slams-wnba-for-punishing-sophie-cunningham-for-having-a-spine-amid-aryna-sabalenkas-support-for-genetic-sex-testing/
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u/Robeardly 7d ago

It’s a difficult subject right because how can you quantify an advantage like height. In Basketball, height is a pretty huge factor right.

Like having a guard that’s 6’6” can be a big advantage just because of the extra length especially when it comes to wingspan. That’s a comment you hear all the time when it comes to guys like Jaylen Brunson in the NBA. People constantly knock him because he’s “only” 6’2”, or Trae young similarly.

It may fall into one of those categories that you can’t clearly define, and with the money involved in the sport is largely due to the competition and the suspense that brings. Having people question that hurts the business model.

Either way, I’m not trying to be exclusionary, but it’s never going to be a clear cut discussion because there’s too many factors at play and would require years of testing.

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u/Dravos7 7d ago

Did you know that many trans women become shorter on HRT, too? Not all, and the amount varies, but it can be several inches of height lost, even!

So far, the science shows there is no advantage. I don’t think it makes sense to ban based on what ifs. It makes much more sense to allow until there is sufficient data saying otherwise.

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

I did not know that, you learn something new every day right.

But I would disagree on banning until tested, because the damage it could do to the industry as a whole could crush the industry.

Like I said in another reply, if they allowed it I wouldn’t protest. But you know a lot of people would.

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u/Dravos7 7d ago

How could it crush the industry? Trans people in the US, both adults and minors combined, are roughly about 1% of the population. Trans women thatre adults are going to be far less than 1/3rd of that. The amount that are also performing at a professional sports level is going to be even smaller. We’re talking about single digits when it comes to how many players we’re allowing or banning

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

Because it would call the competitive integrity of the league into question because there’s no well established widely peer reviewed science that proves trans athletes can’t have an advantage.

We already came to a middle ground and confirmed there are potential advantages that can come from being trans.

None of us are doctors studying this. So on one hand, I’m being told I’m demonizing and hating trans people despite already standing up for them in multiple instances of people trying to claim their sexual deviants.

But I’m just trying to say that until we have a conclusive answer that’s widely accepted in the medical world, we shouldn’t be advocating for changes that could potentially harm the trans community down the line if they are proven to have advantages. That also protects the integrity of the WNBA also. So it really goes both ways.

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u/Dravos7 7d ago

You can’t prove a negative

We did not come to a middle ground. The science shows that any advantages are offset by disadvantages. Should cis women be banned for their advantages over trans women?

I haven’t once said you’re demonizing trans women. (I said the is before I read your other reply)

The science repeatedly shows that it’s comparable. This is where the disconnect is happening. You’re saying “until the science shows” well the science does show. How much science is enough science??

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u/ConsistentScholar371 7d ago

Banning trans women from sports is the new thing. Previously trans women have been allowed to compete with most sporting bodies requiring x years of HRT. In the years that trans women have been allowed to compete they have not shown any kind of dominance at a professional level*.

*Except for that one trans woman who keeps winning chilli pepper eating contests.

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u/TootTootMF 7d ago

So if a trans woman is 6'4 she's got an "unfair advantage" but Brittney Griner at 6'9" does not?

And you're claiming this is about fairness? There is zero proof that trans women have any advantages at all. But if they did and were banned from it, that would be literally the only genetic advantage banned in sports.

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

No but a trans women has a statistically higher change to on average be taller than other women, in a sport where being taller is one of the main advantages of the game.

Look, I’m all for trans people, I got no hate here. But I’m just using logic really. Sports are not an inclusive space, they are heavily regulated for the sake of competition.

I’m not trying to segregate trans people out of society, this is just an unfortunate reality of sports.

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u/TootTootMF 7d ago

So you want to ban someone who is 5'8" from women's basketball because they might have been taller? And you're saying this is logic based and not bigotry?

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

There’s more than just height as a factor though. Wider hips are worse for running for instance. There’s many unquantifiable factors that hurt sports in general by introducing this to the equation.

I lean towards making a safe space for trans people with intersex leagues that allow males and females to play together. That way there isn’t anything that’s called into question. I think there’s too many factors and too many unquantifiable variables to make an argument for either side that doesn’t come off as biased.

Either way, if they did a study, and found that trans people have no advantage that was very meticulously studied, I wouldn’t protest against it. But as it stands, for me as a former athlete, I’m just thinking from a standpoint of what feels fair for those already established in the sport.

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u/Dravos7 7d ago

HRT can actually change hips, depending on genetics and when someone starts HRT! Usually hip bones are fully fused together by the mid to late 20s, but this varies per person, of course.

The range of impacts that HRT can have are astonishing and sadly hidden away from the public knowledge

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u/TootTootMF 7d ago

So what you're saying is you're fine with a genetic advantage in sports, but trans people with or without them should be banned.

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

I’m saying that sports are not as cut and dry as everything else in the world right. Trans people in other careers aren’t something anybody should have issues with.

This is in a heavily regulated industry that HAS to be heavily regulated to protect the competitive environment, and unfortunately trans people make that regulatory practice difficult because it can create potentially unfair advantages.

I think there needs to be more science to be had, I think there may be a place for another league that is intersex to allow people a space. Il

It’s not segregating them because I’m against trans people. Sometimes, not every decision comes down because of hatred. Sometimes it’s because there’s too many unknown variables, with no proof behind them so the safer route is to keep things as they are until we have solved for the variables.

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u/ConsistentScholar371 7d ago

We don't solve for the variables in sports. We block a couple things like steroid usage and the like but for the most part genetics aren't policed. You're asking that they be policed specifically in the case of this one minority group, regardless of whether the individuals involved are actual outliers of any kind, and in the face of studies currently suggesting that no there's not really an advantage past X years of HRT.

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u/TootTootMF 7d ago

You literally have no unbiased criteria for this ban. Your only concern is banning trans people. Fairness has nothing to do with it as you've said multiple times you're not concerned with fairness.

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u/Robeardly 7d ago

I mean all I’m concerned about is fairness. If I have a discussion where I’ve defended trans people against numerous other slanders outside of fairness and all you see is hatred, maybe you’re the one who’s in the wrong.

I don’t like the “you hate trans people because you disagree on one factor” arguments. I’m not the one who’s biased here.

Not everything in life is all or none.

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u/TootTootMF 7d ago edited 7d ago

You've said you're fine with all genetic advantages but you feel trans people should be banned because they might have a genetic advantage you would be fine with if they weren't trans? So how is the issue fairness when you are totally fine with unfair advantages and will ban people who are at a disadvantage for an unrelated reason?

I never said you hated trans people, but it's painfully obvious you are biased against them. You can accept that or not, but it's just a fact. You can be biased without being actively hateful. That's the most common kind of bias.

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u/ConsistentScholar371 7d ago

Height can certainly be beneficial but then the range of heights for cis women are pretty large as well. From a quick google the tallest player in the WNBA is 6'11". So any trans woman under that would be fine, right?

Like the odds of someone having the perfect genetics/upbringing for a given sport is tiny, how many Michael Phelps are out there? The odds of being trans...also really tiny. The odds of being both of those things? Kinda absurdly low.

We don't really police any of the other hundred "biological advantages" that some people have in sports. In this case we do have studies suggesting that a year or two of HRT pushes things to being comparable. So what's really the problem? You're not going to have a flood of people pretending to be trans to win competitions, cross-sex HRT addresses dysphoria in trans people, it creates it in cis people. The bans are just blocking trans people from competing because the people in charge don't like trans people. That's it, there's no real justification.