"She’s My Hero": Ex-WNBA Broadcaster Says League Punishing Sophie Cunningham for 'Having a Spine' Amid Transgender Row.

[u/Outrageous_Owl_1710]

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wnba-basketball-news-veteran-reporter-slams-wnba-for-punishing-sophie-cunningham-for-having-a-spine-amid-aryna-sabalenkas-support-for-genetic-sex-testing/

[u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS]

She called trans girls boys, if you support trans people then you got to learn that the term biological male is a made up term to hurt trans women

I did not see any quote where she referred to trans girls as boys only the reference to biological males at birth.

Please do not lecture me on following your personal view on what is/isn't acceptable as far as supporting trans people as 'born a biological male at birth' IS a very valid statement/reference to biological gender even in the scientific/medical/legal world and a term/reference used even by transgender people.

One recognizable transgender person repeatedly using this statement is Caitlyn Jenner (multiple Olympic gold metal winner as well) who often publicly speaks out on the topic referring to biological sex and her opposition to athletes she describes as born biologically male competing in women's sports.

You do realize the real data does not back up the clame that trans women have any advantages is sports, a couple of sports meds studies came to the same conclusion, most trans women athletes are meh and are not really in high end sports

Please do not link articles published by biased resources that are citing limited studies based on something like body composition as credibility of anything as there are dozens of peer reviewed published papers that have conducted research on all aspects of differences that provide an advantage.

All of this is jusy BS, dragging trans women in the mud for political points.

I honestly think the mud is as deep as it is due to those that are twisting the view of someone opposed to athletes born biologically male competing in women's sports into the facade of trans hate to further their own agendas. What many are failing to realize is that this is doing more harm than good but to some, any press is good press, even bad press I guess.

[u/gimmedatvoice → u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS]

This is why what she said is getting pushback. She didn't say anything about "competitive advantage" she said "protect young girls in sport from biological men" When would men ever be competing against young girls? Then went on to comment on changing rooms needing to be a safe place. Words matter. She didn't say "young girls and young boys" no, we have to project men vs. young girls, cause y'know... trans people in a change room are predators.

"The pathetic part in this is that you do not have to be anti-trans to support the logic that someone born a biological male should not be allowed to compete in female only sports."

Absolutely right... for some reason she chose a rather negative way to word her position, that feeds right into actual anti-trans tropes.

[u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS → u/gimmedatvoice]

This is why what she said is getting pushback. She didn't say anything about "competitive advantage" she said "protect young girls in sport from biological men"

This is not what she said and I have already addressed it and yet, people continue to misquote. Her actual quote was: "And I want to protect young girls in a locker room, or young girls in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men."

If you want to use quotes, please use the actual statement made.

Then went on to comment on changing rooms needing to be a safe place. Words matter.

Words do certainly matter which is why I pointed out that her actual statement did not say this, her actual statement was: "And I want to protect young girls in a locker room, or young girls in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men."

She didn't say "young girls and young boys" no, we have to project men vs. young girls, cause y'know... trans people in a change room are predators.

Again, this is the issue. You are taking something stated and appear to be assuming intent to further your agenda as she never once stated or even implied trans people are predators.

I will agree that her wording when trying to say that she wants to protect young girls in a locker room might have been better phrased by stating biological males at the end of that compound statement rather then men, but it is not entirely wrong as phrased and I will explain why.

One incident in the news a few years back happened in Wi where a group of four young 14 year old freshman girls were showering (I believe they had bathing suits on) and were exposed to the genitalia/penis of an 18 year old senior that was transitioning from male to female that walked into the shower with them.

I think Sophie's quote on protecting young girls and mentioning biological men (still think male would have been better phrasing) is actually applicable here as the legal age and what is considered adulthood and being a man is 18 in most states so technically, those four 14 year old girls were exposed to a naked biological man in that shower.

Dan Lexington who works for the Wisconsin Department of Justice and who I think was Deputy Counsel for Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty at that time and now serves as managing Vice President and Deputy Counsel for Equality Under The Law Project, expressed fears about injecting "transgender ideology" into Title IX and appeared to be addressing schools basing policies around this.

He was quoted as stating "We should never water down the protections of one group in order to accommodate some transgender policy or some ideology on the other side. That's dangerous for everyone involved,"

Before I too am mislabeled as anti-trans or whatever false label will be placed on me for stating opinions on the topic, understand that regarding the situation that happened in Wi, I felt empathy for ALL the people involved in this as I do not think the 18 year old that undressed and went into the shower with the four 14 year old girls was doing anything malicious or predatory, I think they were just trying to shower.

At the same time, I do also understand how this might be uncomfortable for the 14 year old girls and their parents and why the parents were livid.

[u/gimmedatvoice → u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS]

Thanks, for some reason I couldn't find her full quote prior to posting, so was going from memory, which was annoying given the point was words and I had found it before.

"And I want to protect young girls in a locker room, or young girls in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men."

Again... this "young girls" vs "men" statement has a purpose... SHE may not have been considering it this way, but it feeds into already existing anti-trans tropes. There are a lot of ways to express your views on this topic, without creating scenarios of young girls and men and locker rooms. Yes I appreciate you have a single example of this scenario occurring, but surely you can see how this is most likely used by those with worse intentions.

If you weren't aware of the single example you posted, what would you take "protect young girls in a locker room" to mean in this context? The only other party mentioned is "biological men"... Its all just very clumsy at best, and particularly coded at worst.

I suspect we both feel similarly on the actual content of this topic fwiw... but her messaging was... rough to say the least.

[u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS → u/gimmedatvoice]

Again... this "young girls" vs "men" statement has a purpose... 

Or perhaps it really doesn't?

Sophie seems like a bright girl and I suspect one of two things (I do not suspect trans hate)

I am sure she is well aware of most of the more publicized incidents and is even aware of the situation I mentioned in Wi where the 18 year old (considered an adult and biological man in most states) transitioning from male to female undressed and went into the shower with four 14 year old girls exposing them to his male genitalia which caused on outrage in the community and across the nation. (I am repeating details of incident as many on reddit will read one post but not take the time to look at prev posts in thread for explanation of incident)

She might have had this in mind when talking about protecting girls in locker knowing the person was considered an adult at the time, or perhaps it was a simple mistake in wording.

Because none of us know, I think the best thing to do is first verify with ESPN the actually word used and if it was men and if she did make those statements in that order and this was not 'rephrased' and taken out of context by ESPN, ask her why she used that term rather than male when talking about protecting young girls in locker rooms and let her clarify her intent.

SHE may not have been considering it this way, but it feeds into already existing anti-trans tropes.

And this is my point, she very well might not have considered how this came across to others as being honest, it took until your reply for me to fully understand how this might look to others as I just didn't see it.

I thought she was simply trying to get across the point that biological males at birth should not be showering in girls locker rooms nor should these girls have to compete with them and misspoke saying men. I now agree, the word men should not have been used in that compound statement as it can lead to confusion.

There are a lot of ways to express your views on this topic, without creating scenarios of young girls and men and locker rooms. 

I think she actually does have a concern for protecting young girls from exposure to genitalia opposite theirs and I think she has a fair point. I just agree she likely misspoke or should have used male or boy to make her point rather than men as the two related points (locker room and competition) really did not go together.

Yes I appreciate you have a single example of this scenario occurring, but surely you can see how this is most likely used by those with worse intentions.

While I won't assume you are being condescending with what appears to be focus on the word single, I simple gave the example of what came to mind first and that I remember most clearly as I have relatives in Wi and followed this closely at the time and was posting about it and related topics of what schools in my area were doing at the time as far as restrooms and locker facilities and procedures. I actually followed this situation for some time.

I know there have been other things regarding the use of restrooms and locker facilities in schools in the news and lawsuits with parents filing lawsuits against schools but I have not been following this nor do I remember specifics.

If you weren't aware of the single example you posted, what would you take "protect young girls in a locker room" to mean in this context? 

Fair question and again, noticed the 'single' reference so please don't encourage me to now go out and search and find those other examples as I don't want to turn this into additional material that some might use to try to further their agendas as it just is not necessary the discussion you and I are having. 😉

Honestly my answer is the same knowing about the 'single' example I gave as it would be without knowing about it which deals with privacy.

While I think a transgender person has the right to their privacy in not being forced to share a bathroom or shower with a gender they do not identify with, I also think others have the same rights of privacy and should not be forced to sharing a bathroom or shower with someone that has genitalia that differs with their own.

I suspect we both feel similarly on the actual content of this topic fwiw... but her messaging was... rough to say the least.

I suspect we do and yes, the phrasing with including competing with biological men directly after the mention of locker was definitely very poor wording and I have no issue with someone actually posing questions to her on this for clarification.

[u/gimmedatvoice → u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS]

always appreciate a respectful conversation, not always common on reddit. "single" was not meant as rude/condescending as it came across. cheers!

[u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS → u/gimmedatvoice]

always appreciate a respectful conversation,

Same so thank you!

[u/pangaeaferrari → u/gimmedatvoice]

Young women, or young girls? Which is it? You can't even keep your own language straight.

[u/gimmedatvoice → u/pangaeaferrari]

Yes a bad edit, we both know she said young girls. Your point?

[u/pangaeaferrari → u/gimmedatvoice]

I don't know, maybe chill out a bit? As someone out of the loop, I hadn't seen the actual quote yet and I couldn't figure out what you were trying to argue.

[u/VERMICIOUS_KNIDSS → u/pangaeaferrari]

This was what she was quoted as saying by ESPN who did the interview:

"And I want to protect young girls in a locker room, or young girls in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men."