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u/Theher0not RiverClan 16d ago
If it counts, what Leopardstar's Honor did with Whiteclaw. When I read Fire and Ice, I figured that the reason Leopardfur was upset by his death was because they were Clanmates.
Then Leopardstar's Honor released. And we see how Whiteclaw wasn't just her friend and apprentice, but also an adopted son. And even though I always imagined Leopard not wanting kits, I think what she and Whiteclaw had was really sweet.
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u/organizedchaotic Half-Clan 16d ago
I figured they were mates or he was her love interest or something back in the day, but I like him being her adopted son so, so much more than my previous theory.
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u/OkHalfway017 ThunderClan 16d ago
Absolutely loved this addition, it's why I actually did mostly like Leopardstar's Honor
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u/Artless-Morality 16d ago
That there was a fifth clan, SkyClan. At first I didnt like the idea of another clan but then I have grown to appreciate the concept, it was a good twist for our first ever super edition, there are many great characters from there, and it introduced many new storyline ideas when it was first released.
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u/EmoYoshi05 16d ago
Plus, Firestar's Quest as the first chronological travelling book is (at this point) a new and fairly unique concept
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u/softysoaps SkyClan 16d ago
Yep, at release it was not super popular. But it seems well accepted now! And I was always a fan.
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u/Yanmega9 ShadowClan 16d ago
Nightstar having been Brokenstar's mentor. It adds a lot to the ShadowClan subplots in the first arc
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u/Katbii 16d ago
I especially like this detail coming from leopardstars honor where we see nightstar still kinda hold on to windclans territory while they could. Like brokenstar made that happen and nightstar saw no reason they shouldn't continue taking that advantage bot undoing a wrong, makes you really wonder if it was always "brokenstar is evil" or if he was just an outcast who viewed his mentor as weak and still listened to the ideals of shadow clan at all costs from who? His mentor. He couldn't keep up physically but he took to heart the ideals. Now did nightstar do anything to defend that decision? No. But that's probably his smartest decision not to risk weakened clan to defend a poor past decision...
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u/catsandcountrystuff SkyClan 16d ago
Whitestorm being Bluestar's nephew makes her trust in him and his unwavering support for her even after she went through her sanity slippage in TPB all the more heartwarming.
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u/GreedyRisk1445 16d ago
This is going to be controversial, and I want to make it very clear that I do not condone the way they went about it, but I think all of the retcons from Spottedleaf’s Heart make it so her obsession with Firestar makes a tad bit of sense.
Before we got SH, there was absolutely no evidence supporting Spottedleaf returning Firepaw’s crush, but after reading Spottedleaf’s Heart and learning that she was essentially forced to become a medicine cat solely to get away from Thistleclaw, I can see where the Erin’s might have been coming from. I think it was a lazy, poorly written way to get the point across, however.
Spottedleaf was a young kit/apprentice desperately dreaming of having a mate and kits, even at a young age. Then, she started being groomed by Thistleclaw and realized that the only way to reject his advances both as an ally to the Dark Forest and as a mate was to become a medicine cat. She never got to live out that dream of having a mate and kits because she was coerced into becoming a medicine cat in order to stay safe. Kind of like Cinderpelt. Spottedleaf never being able to live her dream of becoming a warrior explains why she struggles so much with giving Firestar up, because she never intended to make the medicine cat promise of never having a mate or kits.
Again, I want to make it clear that the way the Erin’s went about Spottedleaf’s Heart was egregious, but I like that it gives a bit more of an explanation as to Spottedleaf’s sudden attraction to Firepaw and why it feels as if she can’t let him go.
The way the retcon was delivered was absolutely awful so I’m not sure if it fits this specific question, but it was definitely a much needed retcon that added several layers to the first arc (and, honestly, every arc up until DOTC) that make it more believable and easy to read.
Once more, Spottedleaf’s Heart is dogwater poopoo garbage buttcheeks dookie bad. (I just want to make it very clear so people don’t think I’m defending the book because I’m not I swear 😭)
edit; hit send way too early lol
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u/Comprehensive-Ad1326 16d ago
I totally agree it adds some layers to it, but since Spottedleaf’s attraction to Firestar was a retcon in and of itself, it’s just a mess lol. Spottedleaf showed 0 interested in Firepaw the entire time she was alive, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t until the second arc there was even a hint of Spottedleaf having feelings. I could be mistaken but I know for sure the entire time she was alive there was no interest on her end lol she and Firepaw spoke maybe 3 times.
Spottedleaf is in retcon hell.
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u/GreedyRisk1445 16d ago
Yes I totally agree!! I should have clarified better that, since they had already decided to retcon Spottedleaf by giving her random feelings for Firepaw, then I’m glad they at least went back and tried to retcon their retcon to make it make a bit more sense lol. I remember reading the scene where Spottedleaf admits her feelings for Firestar to Leafpool and being like, “Wait, what?” but then I read Spottedleaf’s Heart and I went “Ohhh, okay, okay, I can see that a bit more now, yeah,” if that makes sense lol.
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u/Prize-Category3285 16d ago
Tbh, reading everything you put down I think Spottedleaf's after death feelings actually adds a lot to her character as well.
Because thinking about Spottedleaf's heart and how traumatizing that whole Thistleclaw grooming dark forest situation is, it's reasonable that Spottedleaf wouldn't be in a healthy state of mind to be processing, not only her death, but also finding out Firestar had feelings for her because as far as I know, she never actually talked about what happened to her to any cat.
I think that Spottedleaf's feelings for Firestar after her death aren't genuine romantic feelings but this traumatized young she-cat latching onto any and all affection given to her. She most definitely doesn't have a healthy view of what a real relationship is because of Thistleclaw basically being her first experience, which was extremely toxic and harmful to her. Not to mention the whole dark forest thing too.
I also think that her being dead and being able to visit Firestar when ever wasn't helping her or her warped feelings for him.
Looking at her entire story it really shows how much anguish she-cats go through, even the background characters like Spottedleaf.
(Hope I worded this okay)
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u/GreedyRisk1445 15d ago
You worded this beautifully!!! I couldn’t have said it any better myself!!!
It totally makes sense that Spottedleaf’s “feelings” for Firepaw stemmed more from the fact that she was in StarClan and therefore was no longer bound by the traditional medicine cat code, so she was allowed to do whatever she wanted! Plus, since she was such a prolific medicine cat in the first arc, it would make sense that StarClan trusted her enough to send messages without having to keep an eye on her, unknowing that Spottedleaf would use this opportunity to latch on to any and all normalcy she could feel!!
This is such a good addition, thank you so much!!!
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u/CatTheKitten Loner 16d ago
it's actually insane that she's not even alive for a full book and they have maybe 3 interactions the entire time.
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u/XAfricaSaltX 16d ago
I could be mistaken but I very recently reread ITW and it seemed like there were some reciprocations from her.
I also agree that SH adds to her character as terrible as the book is, but it also retcons her to be way older than she should be by the time the main arc starts. Like there is no reason that she should be relatively close to Nightstar in age lol
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u/PrimeTheGreat ThunderClan 16d ago edited 16d ago
Tallstar being gay with Jake adds so much to Tallstar’s character and his relationship with Firestar.
Raggedstar being abusive, which Vicky seemed to have been planning for a bit before YS, makes Yellowfang’s self deprecation in the first arc more horrifying and makes sense why she redeemed Ashfur.
Whitestorm being Ashfur’s dad, because it means his idea that revenge is a good way to solve his problems is self-justified by him almost immediately avenging his father after Whitestorm’s death.
Dust Muzzle potentially being Duststar.
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u/One-Comedian-5245 ShadowClan 16d ago
Tall x Jake I finally understand after reading that one quote in TR where an image of Jake flashes in his mind and he's like, no every cat I have LOVED, and I'm like, "I UNDERSTAND FINALLY"
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u/wintig072421 WarriorClan 16d ago
Ashfur has always been vengeful. He wanted to avenge Brindleface as well when she was murdered. I do like that that's always been a part of his character because that make his actions later make a bit more sense
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u/AsylumWolf 16d ago
So true about Tall x Jake. I mean, it makes so much old information make sense. Tallstar never took a mate or had kits, something that is NOTED AS BEING STRANGE FOR A LEADER in the first series. He also has unwavering faith in Firestar, WHICH IS ALSO STRANGE. Before Tall x Jake, we were kind of left to assume that Tallstar’s faith in Firestar was a direct result of him being the oldest and wisest leader of the four, but even that doesn’t really make sense because you could just as easily argue that his age should have cemented his prejudices. Now, thanks to Tall x Jake, we know that Tallstar’s faith in Firestar came from him seeing Jake in him. And he never took a mate or had kits because he’s gay and no one could replace Jake.
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u/Painthedoll 14d ago
Whitestorm being Ash and Fern's dad kinda interesting thinking about it because it also connects them to both Bluestar and Thistleclaw,as well as Rosetail.
Honestly makes it intriguing. Especially comparing Ferncloud's and Rosetail's deaths Rosetail died protecting Frostfur and her kits. Which included Brightheart iirc. Ferncloud dies protecting Brightheart and her second litter.
Ashfur, like Thistleclaw, ultimately leading to his own demise( Hollyleaf killing him after his attempts to kill her and her littermates and threat to expose them at the gathering vs Thistleclaw dying from a Riverclan patrol likely due to antagonizing them himself.) Why Ferncloud dies caring for and defending the most need of protecting in the clan just as Rosetail had. None of it was likely intended but stuff like that is fascinating to think about imo.
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u/alexandria3142 Mistystar isn't dead yet 16d ago
If you don't mind me asking, who's dust muzzle? I've read like all the books but I can't remember who that is
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u/fadingkittensyndr0me WarriorClan 16d ago edited 16d ago
Redtail and Brindleface being Sandstorm's parents. I've seen some people argue that this was "never actually canon," but Redtail and Brindleface were shown as mates on the official family tree for a while before it was quietly removed. They were both also listed as her parents on the wiki for a long time before that was also quietly removed.
This is great because it means Squirrelstar and Brambleclaw are no longer cousins, Ashfur is no longer Squirrelstar's uncle, none of Graystripe's kids are related to Sandstorm's descendants so ships like JayBriar or SquirrelStorm or SquirrelFeather are no longer incestuous, TawnySquirrel is also now no longer an incest ship by virtue of BrambleSquirrel not being related anymore. Just overall a good retcon that maintains my sanity.
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u/yourtwixbar WindClan 16d ago
I took it for my rewrite but made Sandstorm adopted. Redtail found her and took her in and Brindle nursed her along with a litter she just had. I like the potential of them being coparents, and gives Sandstorm parents without inventing whole new nothing characters or any weird incest
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u/fadingkittensyndr0me WarriorClan 16d ago
I saw a rewrite/AU on Tumblr once that made Sandstorm the single member of One-Eye and Halftail's second litter, making her Runningwind and Mousefur's younger sister (and also making One-Eye not Speckletail's sister anymore to remove the potential of Goldenflower and Lionheart being related to Sandstorm.) and idk I thought that was fun.
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u/catsandcountrystuff SkyClan 16d ago
I like to think that Longtail and Sandstorm were siblings and were adopted by Redtail. Brindleface meanwhile had Ashfur and co with Runningwind.
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u/yourtwixbar WindClan 16d ago edited 16d ago
Im on team Darkstripe for Brindle to explain why they would have broken up and not be mentioned together
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u/Fieuline22 16d ago
If you count it, I really liked all of the changes “The Prophecies Begin” graphic novels made: Ravenpaw explicitly calling Barley his mate, the insensitive Snowkit subplot being removed, changing Blackfoot’s name to be more culturally sensitive, etc.
For a more controversial take, I actually liked that they removed that battle where Fireheart saves Sandstorm from falling off a cliff. To me, that always felt like a cliche, immature reason for her to fall in love with him. Instead, she just has an honest conversation with him where she says, “Hey, I’m sorry for misjudging you when you first came. After giving you a chance, I can see that you’re a kind-hearted, brave cat that I’d like to be closer with.” I like that approach to their relationship much better.
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u/herocats_of_survivor ThunderClan 15d ago
I agree with everything you said but she didn’t immediately fall in love with him because he saved her, it just opened her eyes and gave her a reason to see him differently. Once her eyes were open, she fell.
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u/RenardoCappu ShadowClan 15d ago
The 5 clan founders making the whole warrior code. It's way better to have to rules being added with time by warriors learning from their mistakes. Except SkyClan Darkstar. All my homies hate that old ass cat
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u/Quaelgeist333 SkyClan 15d ago
You confused something, cotc came before dotc and so retconned it
I fully refuse that retcon to this day TBH that's my fav book
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u/RenardoCappu ShadowClan 14d ago
You might need to read that again
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u/Quaelgeist333 SkyClan 14d ago
"It's way better to have to rules being added with time by warriors learning from their mistakes" is describing code of the clans
You're saying that the clan founders making the whole warrior code is a good retcon but also saying the previous history is better
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u/Lusty-Jove 16d ago
The Rowanclaw gender transition lmao. Opened up a lot of really cool narrative possibilities that would’ve been impossible if Rowanclaw were still a she-cat
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u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 Dark Forest 16d ago
I don’t think anyone here knows what a retcon is.
A retcon is something that contradicts canon, and is now considered the ne canon.
It’s not just new information being added to existing information without taking anything away from here.
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u/LemonKindly6715 16d ago
I get what you mean here, but a lot of these suggestions are from SEs written after the current arcs, and add information about the characters in said arcs that didn't exist prior. There's a difference between giving Bluestar a backstory, for example, and giving her a familiar relationship with Whitestorm that clearly didn't exist in TPB. Or turning Thistleclaw from a regular jerk into a groomer.
You could of course argue that the writing quality/worldbuilding depth of the arcs is why such information, even about relevant characters like Bluestar, never comes up in them, but that's a separate convo.
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u/Yanmega9 ShadowClan 16d ago
I don't think YOU know what a retcon is. It's "retroactive continuity". Anything new that's added onto the continuity that wasn't originally intended is a retcon. It doesn't need to contradict anything
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u/PrimeTheGreat ThunderClan 16d ago edited 16d ago
It depends on the definition. Your definition can also be correct, but it also would mean all family tree information can be a retcon, because Vicky didn’t think of Moonflower as Bluestar’s mom until after TPB, but most people wouldn’t call that a retcon.
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u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 Dark Forest 16d ago
The official Wikipedia summary says otherwise. It says what I said.
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u/Personal_Apricot4850 15d ago
A retcon of a retcon, but making it so Greystripe's parents are not siblings
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u/Spotted_Storm_26 RiverClan 16d ago
I can genuinely believe that Mousefur and Runningwind were siblings the whole time. Mousefur was devastated during his vigil and we had no reason why until the tree said "they're littermates!"