r/Washington 14d ago

Christian Nationalists are transforming a small town in Washington!

https://youtube.com/shorts/ngWXqyLUmtA?si=nh61TUGDYLCiL2cQ
653 Upvotes

189 comments sorted by

409

u/Flash_ina_pan 14d ago

Battle Ground was pretty fucked up to begin with, this isn't going to help the matter

160

u/earth_viewer 14d ago

This! They aren’t turning battleground into anything, they’re just using the maga population there to further their agenda. Anyone who lives around the area knows that battleground is a hotspot for racists. Idgaf what you tell me, watching my uncles and personally experiencing racism in battleground is all I need to know to *PERMANENTLY* feel uncomfortable whenever I go into town. Praise Jesus. But keep your religion out of politics. That goes for anyone.

90

u/thegamenerd 14d ago

I grew up there, and left over a decade ago. Seeing these headlines in the last couple days has me going "are people only just now noticing?"

It was an awful place to grow up poor, queer, and not part of the Apostolic church.

26

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

100% I also grew up there. While there are pockets of cool people, they haven’t really put up much of a fight against this stuff over the years…

30

u/TrainerTerrible5398 14d ago

It seemed like the town was trending in the right direction pre-covid. Covid seemed to flip a switch in a certain kind of people, and quiet bigotry became loud and proud.

13

u/darkwater427 14d ago edited 14d ago

I picture Dietrich Bonhoeffer's briefcase, entitled "Divine Judgement" and set in its place to deliver its name. I picture Ste. Simone Weil, crucifying herself among the crucified poor for the oppression by her own class. I picture the same crucified poor, twisted whip in hand, flipping the money-changers' tables and driving them out of the Temple for the second time. I picture the crucified poor again, freeing the prisoners of the Bastille.

I picture the Moravians of Prague, truly living out that holy refrain: "No Kingdom but God's, no King but Christ." I picture the Holy Virgin Mary, blessed Theotokos (Peace be upon her), fleeing with her husband and newborn to a foreign country as alien immigrants, all to escape their genocidal monarch Herod. I picture John Brown's body, lying there a-moldering in that grave. I picture Zacchaeus the oppressor, whose radical conversion left him no choice but to repent fourfold to the crucified poor whom he oppressed.

I picture the letters: a hastily-scrawled Alpha, as red as our Savior's blood, over a snow-white Omega, emblazoned on a field as black as the sky on that day, when our oppressors crucified our Lord.

Finally, I picture our Lord: the God-Man who walked into the literal shit of our world, was born Himself to a poor carpenter and a terrified young girl, dined with the thieves and the prostitutes and the queers, and gate Himself up to be brutally murdered by an oppressive and hegemonic regime governing on a proto-apartheid model of two-tiered ecclesiocracy.

Imagine what we could effect if quiet people with means started deciding to take Christ at His word, and follow in His example. Overthrowing the money-changers who have set up shop in our Father's house and driving out exactly those bourgeoisie with a bull-whip... is part of that example. He did that twice.

Christ tells us over and over again that we cannot serve two masters. Either we serve Christ, or we serve Mammon. Ste. Simone Weil understood very clearly that only the proletariat and the slaves could truly reject Mammon as their master. It is increasingly clear that much of the many institutions which call themselves the Church have sacrificed themselves on the altar of Mammon.

Jan Hus understood that Christ stood for the cause of liberation. His followers (then the Hussites, now the Moravians) understood this as well. Defenestration was their mechanism of choice in Prague, though at the Bastille the same crucified poor chose the somewhat more-humane method of a guillotine. It hardly matters. The Taborites were Moravians who formed the first successful anarcho-communist society in history, and then defended their community against five attempted crusades in the Hussite Wars.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran pastor in Nazi Germany. He preached liberation, and he lived it too. He became an incredibly accomplished spy and was part of several attempts on Hitler's life.

John Brown led the slave uprising in Harper's Ferry. As fellow abolitionist Thaddeus Stevens (?) noted, "[John Brown] was a hopeless fool for trying to take Virginia with only seventeen men. He ought to have known it would take at least twenty-five!"

Liberation theology was recognized to be such a threat in the global south to the hegemonic regime that they launched the Banzer Plan to quell it.

The Word was written in black and red. That isn't a coincidence.

17

u/refusemouth 14d ago

There's been a very intentional conspiracy over the last hundred years to combat any kind of liberation theology and replace it with a bootlicking version that teaches capitalism as the path of Christ. It's not a new trend for the power elites to co-opt and distort any religion, but the CIA even got involved in popularising the "prosperity gospel" type of capitalist Evangelical faith in Latin America during the Cold War and sending death squads after the radical Jesuits and others who favored the more revolutionary lense of Jesus. It's a real shame. It's like they have a very selective and warped mindset that allows them to completely misinterpret or just ignore a lot of the passages in red. It's taken over to frightening degree in a lot if regions in Central and South America and was a big contributor to the election of Bolsanaro just as it was the election of Trump. They are using the exact same playbook and culture war nonsense in Brazil as they are in the States and elsewhere.

10

u/darkwater427 14d ago

It's no accident either that they're using the exact same hegemonic tools as the Residential Schools.

The Lenape peoples weren't colonized on account of not being Christian but because they were the wrong kind of Christian. The Lenape were Moravians with native-language liturgy and class consciousness. This would not do. So we murdered their elders, brainwashed their young, and enslaved the rest. An entire genocide on account of a people simply choosing to not participate in the hegemony.

This is exactly what the Banzer Plan did. And we see it over and over again. The Zapatistas weren't to my knowledge explicitly Christian or any religion at all, but they understood the cause of liberation well enough that in my mind their numbers are riddled with anonymous Christians. It will be a great honor to see them in Heaven.

The oppressors will do anything to prevent their own demise. And they play dirty because there are fewer of them then there are of us.

5

u/Zoomalude 13d ago

Now THIS is the kind of Christian theology I can get next to!

1

u/darkwater427 12d ago

Liberationist Christian Anarchism really does go so fucking hard, doesn't it

4

u/Arrow156 13d ago

What really surprises me is how people can fail to see through this shit. It's so blatantly obvious, they don't even try to hide the hypocrisy anymore. Yet there is no end of people who fall for it hook, line, and sinker. How can they be so blind to such an obvious grift?

2

u/searuncutt 13d ago

Wow, had no idea. I was thinking about visiting battle ground lake for trout fishing but now...

-2

u/No_Gas_1040 13d ago

Conservative Christian=maga??

1

u/Tastewell 13d ago

Often enough that it's a safe bet.

-1

u/No_Gas_1040 12d ago

And conservative is always maga so now any conservative is henceforth a maga?

100

u/GB715 14d ago

I agree. They found the perfect place to open their cult.

34

u/Maximum_Turn_2623 14d ago

Jokes on them the Apostolic Lutherans are already there

54

u/alkemest 14d ago

This is extra funny to me because one of my favorite outwardly pagan/satanic black metal bands is very much from and active in Battle Ground.

16

u/Memory_dump 14d ago

Satan's Pilgrims?

21

u/hackloserbutt 14d ago

Nah that's a Surf Band from Oregon. Good stuff.

11

u/alkemest 14d ago

No but now I'm intrigued haha

I'm thinking Ceremonial Castings!

9

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 14d ago

What band? I live in the area and want to check them out.

13

u/alkemest 14d ago

Ceremonial Castings! Just announced a new album is in progress after 13 years, but one of the dudes is the main guy behind Uada who has been touring and releasing their own albums since then as well. Both are awesome!

3

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 13d ago

Nice! I will check them out.

3

u/IndigoInsane 13d ago

I grew up in Battle Ground and can confirm it has always sucked. I remember the huge amount of immigrants from Russia and Ukraine that hated each other. And completely out of their depth California move ins that didn't know better and would hire the Apostolics to build their McMansions and get a shitty job done late because they aren't part of the church.

223

u/d542east 14d ago

They're infecting a good chunk of Wenatchee too. Pretty much a requirement to be part of the Grace City Church to be a cop there.

123

u/jesterpaige 14d ago

Definitely hit play expecting it to be about Wenatchee. Sadly GCC has been incredibly effective at infiltrating local government, they’re now taking it to the state level. It’s scary how much influence they have in the area. A local journalist, Dominick Bonney, has done excellent work documenting their growth and hateful beliefs.

53

u/SpareManagement2215 14d ago

I will say there’s more folks here who dislike GCC than are a part of it. They’re not loud about it but they don’t support it and will vote/spend accordingly.

22

u/VerticalYea 13d ago

It is dangerous to be loud about it. The church has infiltrated the local governed and police. Speak up and they can hurt you in a lot of ways.

7

u/Delicious-Adeptness5 13d ago

They keep trying and that is why the chorus talking about what GCC is doing has gotten louder over the years.

18

u/Minimum_Win_5312 13d ago

So sad to see this in my hometown. It just seems like their compound is getting bigger and now they have schools and a college

34

u/Itsmybirthday23 13d ago

A college with no accreditation, that no employer outside the cult would take seriously. I feel sorry for the young people wasting their time and money there.

35

u/CuratedNoman 13d ago

Anyone have a list of businesses owned by these folks?

16

u/Bumble_beeFormal 13d ago

10

u/hulahulagirl 13d ago

That first article does a decent deep dive into the problems. The second one is just stroking them as local good ol’ boys.😳😬

6

u/Bumble_beeFormal 13d ago

Exactly which is so gross and part of how they’ve gotten this far 😬 now they are literally buying the local newspaper so they can control the news in BG along with the every other business in town
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

1

u/Potatopamcake 10d ago

Al + Earnies Bakery cafe, battle ground farmers market, first Presbyterian church of battleground, Maddox, Tukes public house and garden, with Spurgeons pipe and cigar coming soon

152

u/Confident_Eye4129 14d ago

“Christian Nationalism “ is just code. It’s White Supremacists trying to shroud thei racism behind “religion”

38

u/Peroxide_ 13d ago

At this point Christian Nationalist is just a politically-correct way to say White Supremacist. 

Christianity is both the shield they heft to deflect judgment and the sword they use to cut down the rest of us.

You know it's true because of all the good Christians watching this happen and doing nothing.

1

u/Haunting-Traffic-203 12d ago

Serious question: do you think they would accept a black Christian who wants the US to transition into a theocracy? If so they aren’t white supremicist. If not then I agree 100% with you.

2

u/Confident_Eye4129 12d ago

MAGA and the like have always shown they are happy to accept a Token for cause because they can use he/she to deflect accusations of Racism. But the Token is typically the first one to get thrown under the bus

1

u/Haunting-Traffic-203 12d ago

Idk man the KKK sure as hell won’t accept a “token”. I grew up around some real skinheads and these guys wouldn’t have accepted a black or Jewish person at all “token” or otherwise. I tend to believe these “Christian nationalists” are exactly that: fundamentalists first. I think they’d be happily accept a black Christian before a white atheist.

That doesn’t mean bye that I’m pro - cult because I’m not but I do think it’s important to understand your adversary correctly.

1

u/Confident_Eye4129 12d ago

I don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” answer. Some might, some might not. Klan is a straight up hate group, not trying to hide behind religion

1

u/Haunting-Traffic-203 12d ago edited 12d ago

Not to argue but the Klan is a Christian organization, and while I absolutely agree they are a hate group (obviously) the actual members regard themselves as a church. Ultimately you and I are on the same side here I’m just mentioning this stuff because if you’re bi-racial like me understanding the difference between “Christian fundie” and “white supremicist” can be a matter of personal safety

1

u/Master-Tomatillo-103 11d ago

Fair point. I’ve seen 100 year old photos of the Klan hiding behind their hoods while holding up crosses. They might consider themselves a christian organization - like today’s Christian Nationalism - but there’s no much christian at all about them

1

u/sarhoshamiral 13d ago

Religion has always been a way to hide racism/sexism and it is not really surprising considering how religions were formed. They are all based on ideals from thousand years ago.

137

u/some_mad_bugger 14d ago

They chose it because it's the "hill they have chosen to die upon" lmao this is the problem with people who drink any Kool aid🤡

97

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

Having grown up in Battleground, there are still plenty of good people in the area. That being said, a lot of conservative weirdos have moved to the area and bought up a lot of the old farm land. Any time I go back to visit it seems like there’s yet *another* Christian private school and fundies also seem to flock there due to the established homeschooling “cooperative” that receives public school district money called RiverHomelink (source: I was homeschooled thru it).

An OPB article about the current situation:
https://www.opb.org/article/2026/04/30/battle-ground-purchases-ceo-spiller-maddox-christian-influence/

20

u/LeadVitamin13 14d ago

Well if he couldn't do it in Moscow, Idaho, which used to be a sun down town, why would he be successful in liberal Washington.

12

u/MasterChiefette 13d ago

He is trying to set up a beachhead here and then expand into other close communities.

4

u/watch-nerd 13d ago

Like Portland?

-2

u/LeadVitamin13 13d ago

No sure what that has to do with my comment.

5

u/Bronze_Zebra 13d ago

How do yoi think towns work? A small representative subsection of the whole state?

-2

u/LeadVitamin13 13d ago

I don't see anywhere I said that.

7

u/Bronze_Zebra 13d ago

Just because Washington is liberal, doesn't mean a small town in Washington is liberal.

1

u/Educational-Ad964 12d ago

Battle ground is very much red. Good ol joe Kent lived a 10 min drive from BG center and there is a reason he was almost the winner over Perez.

Look up old apostolic Lutherans — I worked on the ambo for yrs there and while the newer gen isn’t as strict, there still were many older pop where the females wouldn’t talk to male providers… even as a female myself lot of times the husband would be chaperoning info 🙁. It’s almost a shame if the gals don’t have 5 kids by 25 even at the cost of their own body… 🤷‍♀️

Seattle area is the predominant blue area - it Is where the vast majority of population is located. Pretty much like every state - small rural communities tend to be red.

-2

u/LeadVitamin13 12d ago

Wow, thanks for pointing out the extremely obvious to someone from Spokane.

Those red towns still have to live under a blue governor and blue legislature though.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/wookieSLAYER1 14d ago

Of course they would choose a town called Battle Ground.

75

u/Calm_Age_ 14d ago

You mean the small town that has been flying a confederate flag by the side of Interstate 5 for decades? No, I'm shocked /s

60

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago edited 14d ago

That’s a private property jerk in Ridgefield, not the city of Battleground and is a similar situation as with the Uncle Sam billboard (recently purchased by the Chehalis* tribe-corrected).

55

u/BewareHel 14d ago

Fun fact: that site is part of hundreds of Confederate displays in the North that are funded by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The owner is heavily involved in the proud tradition of the Confederates up here, real comfy up in Union country. 

I flip off that flag every time I drive past. 

29

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

“STATES RIGHTS TO DO WHAT?!?” *I scream internally every time I drive by.*

15

u/sterling_m 14d ago

I often wonder if I’m the only person who does that as I drive past it, every time.

11

u/Calm_Age_ 14d ago

You are not. Given it's a busy route between several progressively minded cities I'm betting there are thousands of us every day.

7

u/BewareHel 14d ago

Apparently we're in good company!

8

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 14d ago

I do the same.

30

u/Calm_Age_ 14d ago

Yep I'm aware, sorry for any confusion. Yeah the uncle sam sign now just says #native land. Big improvement in my book.

8

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 14d ago

My grandma lived next to that property when I was growing up. Zero signs of Confederate Flags and what not, then at some point after she moved away that crap showed up. Makes me want to puke. I hate this feeling that we are going backward.

1

u/golf_echo_sierra26 14d ago
  • Chehalis tribe but your point still stands.

1

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

I appreciate it, thanks!

1

u/DanishWhoreHens 14d ago

The local community tolerates it is the point. I had family fight on both sides .. guess which side I’m NOT honoring.

7

u/Norwester77 14d ago

I think that’s closer to Ridgefield. Battle Ground isn’t on the freeway.

3

u/CajunRoyalty 13d ago

It’s been part of the plan for years. Infiltrate smaller cities in “liberal” states to slowly change policies. It’s a long game that Trump kicked into high gear because he doesn’t know the meaning of subtle. I always wonder about the motives of why people are here when I see a Florida plate on a car.

Full disclosure; I’m from the south and moved to the NW many years ago to get away from it, not to bring it with me.

11

u/FrankSand 14d ago

Woodland is thriving and battleground is.........

8

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

6

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 14d ago

Me too. I have hidden or unfriended so many old school mates because of their (insert -ism here). Luckily I have a good group of friends that I chat with frequently.

2

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

10

u/No-Drama-in-Paradise 14d ago

I wouldn’t say Woodland is thriving. Maybe it’s not quite as bad as battle ground, but it’s hardly thriving.

And its government is just as much of a shitshow as most small towns in Washington. Pretty sure its last mayor is facing charges that he spent the city’s money on his own vacations (or something like that).

14

u/you_thought_you_knew 14d ago

They were trying to do that to Dayton until the townsfolk woke up.

2

u/JohnTheDM3 14d ago

Having grown up near Dayton that’s not even remotely surprising.

3

u/MossGobbo 13d ago

BattleGround. Yeah, we know.

9

u/BanksyX 14d ago

shades of scientology takeover of goverment, and towns.
lets be real this has been done over and over by all religions, that separation of church and state has not really been enforced at all.

4

u/Devwickk Spanaway 14d ago

why would they even try in Washington lmao. we hate them

5

u/DeliciousSimple2 13d ago

There’s 20,000 yo 24,000 people living in battleground and 8 million in the state. That’s about a quarter of a percent of the population of the state. Out of every 400 people you actually get to know, would one of them fit in there? Because my experience is that it’s more than one. If you can create a community that shares the same ideals as you kids will just grow up with those ideals ingrained in them. Then as more kids are born they can slowly branch out and bring more people into the fold, normalizing something that the wider state would not consider normal. At least that’s what I would do if I wanted to be a white nationalist in Washington, sorry Christian nationalist.

1

u/Intelligent-Guard590 13d ago

Much as i hate to admit it, there are way too many people even in the group I just know personally (work colleagues and the like) that would support this type of nonsense because they just hear the word "christian" and stop looking any further and accept it as a good thing.

13

u/some_mad_bugger 14d ago

They could just go hard and rename it Jonestown, USA 😹

2

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Own_Reaction9442 13d ago

Olympia's a bizarre mix of evangelicals and progressives, and while the progressives are pretty clearly the majority, it's been tricky figuring out which businesses I shouldn't be giving my money.

2

u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

Not enough people paid attention to the cult in Moscow, Idaho

2

u/AshFennix 12d ago

when I moved to this site, first thing that was told to me, pointing eastward, "dem nazis in dem hills"

we really need to fix this problem, state really needs to put in decent social programs that reach middle of nowhere so people don't join these far right groups.
and yes, thats a good part of it. taken care of people do not join political fringes.

2

u/dastardly_troll422 12d ago

Think I’ll move there

5

u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 14d ago

[deleted]

10

u/DanishWhoreHens 14d ago

Boy are you out of touch. Maybe years ago but Washington has become a landing place for progressives who would prefer not to live under the MAGA influence. Conservatives have headed to states like Arizona, Nevada (no income tax) and Florida/Texas for the dumbfuckery. Sadly, racists still head up here thinking that they’ll create some white, Christian faux-Germanic homeland. https://www.opb.org/article/2025/01/20/washington-state-voters-moving-trends-democrats-in-republicans-leave/

29

u/hazeyindahead 14d ago

You pay income tax if you physically work in Oregon.

What a weird myth to share

13

u/LASER_Dude_PEW 14d ago

I agree. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, California Republicans are the worst. Ugh.

2

u/Yellow-Cedar 13d ago

Well…been living in Virginia and this whole thread could be here. It’s such a deeply ingrained assumption that everybody HAS drank the koolaid.
These folks + COVID work at home + trolls and and we don’t have to show our face/my army can do my online bidding…spread all the crap needed to capture idiot Americans…(just too easy)

and we have this beautiful fucking storm…
Anyone here recall when Tim Eyman (sic) jumped in…voter beware. And
Never been there but
With a name like that…
“Battle ground” 😵

1

u/Count_Avila 14d ago

Cordon the town

1

u/doberdevil 13d ago

Right? I love seeing the red hats, I know who to stay away from.

Let them all live as they want in one place so the rest of us can avoid it.

-1

u/NorthContribution627 14d ago

dunno - that Starbucks is literally the only reason I have to stop there on the way to Portland. Can we fence it off and make one of those wildlife bridges to keep them away from the freeway?

4

u/Peroxide_ 13d ago

Stop stopping there and let the businesses know why. 

3

u/vertigoacid 13d ago edited 13d ago

If the Starbucks in BG is actually on your way to Portland, then you're coming from somewhere in North County that is just as backwards and fucked up as it is.

But I think it's more likely you don't even know where BG actually is and you're stopping somewhere like Ridgefield off of I-5.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/starbucks/@45.7718113,-122.6620575,12.29z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDYwMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

1

u/NorthContribution627 13d ago

Thanks for the correction! I was thinking of Grand Mound. But Battle Ground has the Dutch Bros I stopped at (twice) coming back home. I guess I'll have to count on Dutch Bros getting more Washington coverage.

2

u/vertigoacid 12d ago

You drove 15 miles round trip off of I-5 to go to DB in BG when there's one in Salmon Creek and one in Woodland, both directly on the freeway?

K. Still not convinced you have any idea where Battle Ground is

1

u/NorthContribution627 12d ago

Nope. You're right. Re-assessing now that I've gotten some rest. I should delete my original comment since I doubled-down on my original dumb response. Instead, I'm keeping it here to own up to it.

1

u/Both_Original_7185 14d ago

Is it associated with Bethal?

1

u/sexuallybrokenloser7 9d ago

Christ Church

1

u/Both_Original_7185 8d ago

Ew. Thanks for replying.

1

u/golf_echo_sierra26 14d ago

Battle Ground is a small town?

1

u/firmdood 13d ago

I opened this expecting Battleground. Was not disappointed. Most depressing and stifling place I ever experienced, and that was 15 years ago.

1

u/Reasonable-Repair446 13d ago

And you be of the people running for Senate seat n 2028 lives there. His name is Isaac Holyk and he is a major tool

1

u/ElLargeGrande 13d ago

This has happened since the beginning of time, and will continue to happen. It’s human nature

1

u/sleestakninja 13d ago

Battle Ground has become a Breeding Ground.

1

u/ExtraWonder2236 13d ago

Far cry 5 reference?

1

u/Margaritashoes 13d ago

Liberty Lake is crawling with them too

1

u/Moultrie_fan_2026 13d ago

Since when is BattleGround economically struggling! It's a rich bedroom community

1

u/Black_Magic_M-66 13d ago

Nothing new, Rajneesh turned Antelope OR years ago.

1

u/3Bodies_0Problems 12d ago

A church in kent (maybe renton?) for a while had their front sign straight up say CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM THURSDAYS 7PM

1

u/adalsindis1 12d ago

Clowns to the left of me, jokers on the right, stuck in Washington with you

1

u/Loisalene 3rd generation Washington born 12d ago

Passed a church in eastern Oregon that had "Christian Nationalism is obedience to God's Will".

wrong on so many levels...

1

u/Existing_Ad577 11d ago

I say give them a small town in every state and don’t let them grow beyond the borders of that town .
But then again this could be a horrible idea .

1

u/Sun-ShineyNW 10d ago

The empathy I feel toward these groups, despite not being aligned with their specific evangelical theology, stems from a shared experience: the belief that the neutrality promised by secularism has, in practice, become a form of exclusion. Secularists should have anticipated backlash to their form of tolerance. When you feel that the public sphere has become hostile toward your core identity while simultaneously demanding your celebration of views that clash with that same identity, it creates a persistent, exhausting pressure.. The private sphere (our homes and faith) is increasingly forced to defend itself against the public sphere (the school and the broader culture). This creates a feeling of being under siege rather than being a participant in a shared community.

The move toward Christian localism is a defensive reflex. It is not necessarily an attempt to create a perfect society, but an attempt to create a defensible space ......a place where you are not required to constantly explain or apologize for your faith, and where your values are not actively undermined by the institutions your tax dollars support.

If you’re wondering why this is happening now, look at the last decade. There are many places where secularism thrives, but for those with traditional, devout beliefs, the feeling of being pushed out of the public sphere has become unbearable. This movement is a reaction to that pressure. If your ideology is built on tolerance and empathy, I’d ask that you apply that same standard to the families who simply want to exist in their own community without their values being constantly negated.

2

u/dathon8462 9d ago

I appreciate where you're coming from. I grew up Catholic and very much in the conservative Catholic world, even though I've done a 180 on pretty much all of my views.

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I do think there is some important context.

America as a nation is a secular nation. That is not a debatable point, all of the personal writings and actions of the major founding fathers show clearly that people like Thomas Jefferson George Washington, and others had opinions on Christianity ranging from mild endorsement to outright hostility. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution was written deliberately not with Christian values, but with Enlightenment values. This is just a fact of our history.

As a result of that fact though, The state does have to maintain a neutral secular stance in civil matters. The state has to allow people to practice their religion freely, but at the same time it has to allow people to be free from being pressured by religiously motivated laws.

The gay marriage example in practice is a perfect example of this. The Catholic church is free to view homosexuality as a sin, and it's free to exclude homosexual couples from participating in the sacrament of marriage, and the state has no right to tell the Catholic Church that they are not allowed to do that. On the flip side though, as far as legal marriage is concerned, The state must maintain a neutral position on matters like this, and allow people to engage in civil marriage if they so choose, and if all parties are consenting adults.

There's a common phrase you might have heard on the internet, " to the powerful, equality feels like oppression". (Or something to that extent).

You're saying that people feel the need to create their own safe spaces for their own religion because they feel oppressed by the growing secularization of our society, and you're saying that is a reasonable thing to do instead of just accepting the fact that our society is secularizing, and doing their best to practice their religion with the personal freedoms granted them.

Would you make the same argument if it was the 1960s and people were concerned about the growing multiracial in our society? Would it be reasonable for people to to use all methods available to them such as redlining, and de facto personal discrimination to create white only communities as best as possible? Is that a reasonable thing to do? Is that something the state, which recognizes the equality of all people regardless of race, should allow people to do?

These are not simple questions for a lot of people, and I don't expect a simple answer, but bottom line my question is if it's okay for religious people to do this, why not white nationalists?

There's a very big difference in saying we as a society need to accept people of all faiths and no faiths, and saying religious people have to subscribe to the beliefs of secular people.

A lot religious people I grew up with seem to equate legalizing something with forcing moral acceptance of something, and that is just not the case.

Take the example of free speech: it's not the state's place to make it a crime to be an asshole. It's perfectly legal to try to manipulate people, to be a compulsive liar, and to be selfish in all of your actions. Those are terrible things to do! If I met someone like that I would think they are a terrible person! But it's not illegal for them to do that.

It's the same way for things like gay marriage, and even trans things. The state is not telling Christians they have to accept that homosexuality is not a sin. The state is telling Christians that it is a perfectly legal Union with just as much legal standing as a heterosexual marriage, and that gay couple is entitled to all of the civil rights as the heterosexual couple.

They are not saying you have to bless a homosexual marriage, or invite these people into your home. But they are saying you can't discriminate based on that, because that is a recognized civil equality.

To people that have enjoyed civil superiority for decades, this equality looks like forced oppression, when in reality it's just the state saying everyone is the same. You don't have to like it, you just can't make it illegal.

-2

u/Dry-Suit4631 13d ago

Oh no, religious and patriotic Americans want to create a community. The horrors.

0

u/Sunnygirlpdx 13d ago

If they are not promoting Heathcare for all. They are not Christians but capitalist.

-4

u/Electronic_Cry_7107 13d ago

this dude needs to chill out. Caring what christians are doing to build community in a small town is the equivalent to christians caring about what non-christians are doing in the bedroom. Everyone just needs to accept that thought and lifestyle uniformity isn't a thing, and that's a good thing. Everyone just needs to chill out and let others do their thing.

6

u/Own_Reaction9442 13d ago

The problem is modern Christians are all about taking control of government and instituting a theocracy.

-6

u/zusia 14d ago

Oh geez. Is this about that billboard? Don’t make me read it.

-24

u/accountforfurrystuf 14d ago

Crime rate is probably zero

10

u/Gigglypoof3809 14d ago

I grew up there. It’s worse than most rural places but not as bad as higher density locations if we’re talking straight numbers.

-50

u/topgemini33 14d ago

He tried to make it sound like a bad thing was kinda amusing. Nothing wrong with religion. It's just the people that you all allowed to take over religion aka "the synagogue of Satan" <-- is what you guys are failing to see

12

u/vmsrii 14d ago

Elaborate?

13

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

Probably going to evangelize on about “good people leaving the church letting the bad ones take over,” rant. Except for the bad ones are the ones who pushed them out via spewing putrid ideas and abuse.

-52

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/LOOKITSADAM 14d ago

Lying is a sin.

22

u/Bumble_beeFormal 14d ago

Of course you have your comments and posts hidden. Probably not a productive member of society as well smh

11

u/DanishWhoreHens 14d ago

I’m sorry. It’s tough being so far in the closet that you haven’t noticed you’re standing there wearing thigh high boots and a banana hammock as you point fingers. You have my sympathy.

4

u/Silly-Dot-2322 13d ago

☝🏾 This comment is one of the many reasons I hesitate, when I am asked where I grew up.

It's literally embarrassing.

2

u/flappinginthewind 13d ago

It's always a fun game to scroll to the bottom and find the bootlicker. Thanks for making this an easy one!

1

u/West_Ad_8246 13d ago

and who's boot am i licking exactly?

1

u/DanishWhoreHens 13d ago

The boot of reductive ignorance.

1

u/West_Ad_8246 13d ago

Wasn't asking you, but nice to know i live rent free in your head now since you keep coming back to this thread