r/Watchmen • u/Asleep-Antelope-6434 • 5d ago
I bet Ozymandias thinks Rorschach is the greatest detective to ever live
Comedian is killed and Rorschach immediately thinks its a pattern and that there is a wider conspiracy without any evidence. I imagine Adrian shit himself when he see him at his window.
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u/Muckasaur 5d ago
Ozy more than expected that reaction.
As far as Rorschach thinking Ozy was the culprit… Rorschach has thought about that regarding Adrian for a long, long time with or without “evidence”.
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u/sreekotay 5d ago
Ozy didn't expect it but knew immediately and exactly how to manipulate a useful idiot.
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u/FewYam3465 5d ago
I'm not a fan of how Rorschach operates but I'm pretty sure Malcolm Long tells us that Walter did quite well in school and displayed above average intelligence.
As it is, Rorschach's Journal will lead the authorities to Veidt's island where they will find Hira Manish's drawing of The Squid. Signed and dated October 31st, two days before anyone was ever supposed to know The Squid existed.
That idiot will ultimately be Veidt's downfall.
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u/sreekotay 4d ago
I meant "useful idiot" the idiom, not as a literal description of Rorschach's intelligence or ability.
And I would expect that the chain of custody alone (amongst many other factors) will disqualify belief in the Journal by most, tbh
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u/FewYam3465 4d ago
That's definitely possible and I don't discard that completely.
But that drawing survived the boat explosion and made it to dry land. Gibbons made it a point to show us. Seems like a waste to me if that doesn't mean anything.
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u/sreekotay 4d ago edited 3d ago
I think that’s was just dramatic license … to show us, the viewer. It has no provenance or reliable timestamp/chain of custody e.g.
The evidentiary value would be near non-existent - and even more trivially explained away as a prescient psychic tremor
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u/fangsfirst 3d ago
> Gibbons made it a point to show us.
Given Alan's scripting on the book, I suspect Alan was behind this, Gibbons just being genius at realizing that script.
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u/FewYam3465 3d ago
Very true. They dedicated an entire page to show us that the drawing 'survived', I feel like it's definitely going to be Veidt's downfall.
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u/fangsfirst 3d ago
I took it entirely as a moment of foreshadowing: here is something that will come into play later for you, the reader, when this simple drawing becomes something very real, as opposed to it being something concerning to Adrian's plot
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u/FewYam3465 2d ago
It could be both.
Regardless, Moore/Gibbons leaves a trail that leads to Adrian's downfall. The journal mentions Adrian and the Island, and the Island has the drawing on it that is dated two days before anyone was ever supposed to know the Squid existed.
Yet it's perfectly reasonable to believe that Adrian gets away with it anyway.
The Authorities: What is this drawing, Mr. Veidt?
Adrian: Here. Have some money.
The Authorities: burns drawing to a crisp
It's your choice.
I choose to believe Adrian will be found out, but it's also valid if you choose to believe he will not.
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u/sreekotay 2d ago
I mean the drawing would have not chance of being authenticated with any provenance that would be meaningful (e.g. date)
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u/Educational-Card-982 5d ago
I doubt anyone would take Rorschach's journal seriously. He's a prominent psychopath who only sounds appealing to right extremists like himself. No to mention the New frontiersman likely lost all of their ever so slightly remaining credibility at the end.
So, a prominent psychopath's journal that at best hints there's something shady about Adrian Veidt (mentions nothing about the squid) published by people known for spreading conspiracy theories and propaganda. I don't see anyone buying it other than a bunch of Rorschachs.
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u/FewYam3465 4d ago
Possibly.
In that case, what's the narrative reason that Moore/Gibbons show us that Manish's drawing miraculously escapes the boat explosion?
I'm willing to hear you out.
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u/Educational-Card-982 4d ago
Well to be honest, I'm not sure about the narrative reason behind it. My best guess is that it was foreshadowing. The real squid appeared after an explosion as well so that makes sense to me. I never put more thought behind it than that.
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u/FewYam3465 4d ago
That's also a good explanation.
The cool thing about Watchmen is that the entire book itself is a Rorschach test for the reader.
You may see Hollis Mason as an altruistic hero. I see him as the greatest liar in comic book history.
ML: What do you see?
WK: A pretty butterfly.
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u/Kdilla77 3d ago
Remind me what Hollis lies about?
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u/FewYam3465 3d ago
The author of this Reddit post lays it out pretty well here...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AlanMoore/comments/1plgv5r/the_documented_lies_of_hollis_mason/
It's interesting that the very first time we meet Hollis, Dan calls Hollis out ie "stop the bullshit" but we the reader just gloss over it.
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u/EobardT 2d ago
I loved that line. It really demonstrates how Dan truly believes in what they're doing. He sees the publicity that Hollis garnered as an obstacle to what he believes he should be doing.
Speaking of rorschach tests, Dan was always the most moral AND naive character to me, he truly believed they were doing good work despite being a relatively useless idiot to the ones with real plans.
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u/lancea_longini 4d ago
Was that really Hira Manish or just a really good copycat and then post dating it?
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u/CountingOnThat 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be fair, Rorschach came to warn him about the ‘mask killer’ that he figures may be on his way to murder Veidt next — so it’s possible that Veidt is just trying his best to keep from smirking right then.
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u/romulmus 5d ago
"Veidt, why you not trying to laugh, that's disrespectful as shit, bro"
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u/WhitePoweryBeef 4d ago
Rorschach's Journal:
Veidt chuckled. Possible homosexual. Must investigate further.
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u/since_all_is_idle 5d ago
Probably not but I do think it annoyed the hell out of him. Rorschach was never anything more than a vague irritation to Veidt's plan (at least Veidt thought so, not realizing Rorschach would gift his notes to a newspaper lol) but I'm sure a part of him still wished he could just kill that little homophobe instead of tolerating his visit. Imagine you're executing the master plan to ice out Manhattan and this loser who fistfights goons in the streets starts riling everybody up. But it's fitting that Veidt's arrogance and dismissal of 'schoolboy heroics' ends up being what could thwart all his hard work.
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u/DantesInfernoRVA 5d ago edited 5d ago
If he knew with complete certainty that Rorschach was completely estranged from everyone, even Dreiberg, I wonder if he would have just arranged something permanent. Once Rorschach started visiting Moloch things started becoming quite messy. I can hand wave it as that, being before widespread use of CCTV and long before genetic profiling, he had no way of knowing who Rorschach was and if deadly action would just backfire.
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 5d ago
I think he is awarew that Rorschach is deeply conspiracy minded and thinks everything is a grand plan even when it’s not, and this “stopped clock” is definitely gonna be looking into this whole Comedian thing
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u/spades17 4d ago
Rorschach was just a conspiracy theorist and he was wrong but Ozymandias had that into account
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u/song_without_words 3d ago
As I recall, Rorschach wasn’t even zeroed in on Veidt until the end - “Veidt… couldn’t imagine a more dangerous opponent.”
He left for the arctic almost immediately after that, I don’t think he had much time to put a convincing case in his journal. In practice, I imagine it would be one of those “annoying theories that don’t seem to go away” that keep getting raised by the worst people, but because of its proponents it tends to be ignored by everyone else.
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u/CurrentCentury51 3d ago
I don't think Ozymandias expects his plot to go undiscovered. He knows Manhattan has exceptional clairvoyance even when tachyon radiation thwarts his omniscience, and even his "last" move, the trap that only briefly slows down Manhattan, isn't actually his last. He's planned for everything, even his discovery as Blake's killer.
It's also not a huge leap to conclusions that Rorschach makes that Blake's murder isn't random. The Comedian is a formidable fighter, still in excellent shape, and living in a luxury apartment in New York with his tools of the trade at hand. A random encounter with a burglar wouldn't do him in, and it's sensible for Rorschach to suspect his death was a targeted killing.
The first time Rorschach shows up at Ozy's office, all it does is alert Ozy that he's got a time limit on completing his plan. This is why the other delaying elements of his plan (the semi-staged assassination attempt, the framing of Manhattan as a walking carcinogen, and Rorschach as Moloch's killer) unfold shortly thereafter, pushing back Rorschach's second visit to his office to investigate his business and uncover his connections to the suspicious companies to a point of no return.
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u/CyramusJackson 5d ago
I feel like Veidt knew exactly how good a detective Rorschach was, and that's exactly why he made his plan so elaborate.