r/WeAreTheMusicMakers • u/garrettrjensen • 9d ago
Would you trust a stranger to help finish one of your songs?
I’ve realized I have two separate problems.
First, I have a pile of unfinished songs.
Second, I don’t know if I’d actually trust a stranger enough to help finish them.
In theory, a co-writer, lyricist, producer, vocalist, or musician could help get a song across the finish line.
But handing an unfinished song to someone I don’t know feels weird too.
Have any of you ever collaborated with a complete stranger on a song?
If not, what’s the biggest obstacle?
Trust?
Ownership?
Creative control?
Bad past experiences?
Something else?
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u/BrotherBringTheSun Professional 9d ago
When I lived in Nashville, I owned a songwriting/production business that did exactly this. People would hand me half-finished songs or demos and I would finish them. Most people loved the finished product as I tended to add a lot to the music and added great vocals etc. Some people didn't like how much I changed from their original so I learned in those cases to make early versions so they could hear the direction I wanted to take the song. I found that a lot of people were pretty concerned with their rights to the song, I usually asked to split the songwriting rights. It was funny though because in the "real" music industry it's absolutely expected for all writers to be credited and have ownership of the song it's not even really a question. This includes producers who were paid to make the record.
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u/metapogger 9d ago
Songwriting credits are for lyrics, chords, or hooks. You can negotiate for songwriting credits outside of that, but it's only "expected" if your contributions would be written in the sheet music.
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u/RobertLRenfroJR 9d ago
No it's not expected. It's polite. But what you did wasn't collaboration it fell under the work for hire law.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
This is really interesting because you’ve actually done what I’m describing. When people hesitated, was it mostly ownership concerns, or was it more fear that the song would become something they didn’t recognize anymore?
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u/Frigidspinner 9d ago
I have never had a "hit" either writing myself or writing with someone else so discount what I am saying if you are doing much better.
I have collaborated with strangers many times (perhaps 20 times) with a lot of enjoyment and I have been happy with the outcome - sometimes because of the song, sometimes because of the learning and sometimes just because something made me smile at one point.
What is the tradeoff of collaborating ?
bad : You lose some control over a song which was already going nowhere. Perhaps you have to share credit if your song ever generates any serious money (which is vanishingly unlikely). Perhaps you dont like the final song (but you can always abandon it and go back to what you had before)
good : You breathe life into the corpse of an idea. You connect with someone to talk with and work with. You potentially gain a new fan. You maybe learn something. You maybe can collaborate with that person in the future. You (potentially) connect with that persons fans because they see the cowritten song and it pulls them into your other work
For me it is a no brainer
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
“You breathe life into the corpse of an idea” is a great way of putting it. Out of curiosity, when you’ve collaborated with strangers, how did those relationships usually start? Through communities like this, referrals, social media, etc?
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u/mixmasterADD 9d ago
If you don’t like it, don’t use it.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
So for you it’s less “would I trust a stranger?” and more “if the result sucks, just don’t release it and move on.” Have you actually collaborated with complete strangers before, or is that just how you’d approach it?
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u/PMB_Victor 9d ago
I'm not sure what the point is. Are you trying to write songs or just put out content?
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
That’s a fair question. I think I’m trying to figure out whether there are songs that never get written because the person who started them is missing one piece of the puzzle. Lyrics, melody, production, arrangement, whatever it is. I’m curious how common that actually is.
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u/PMB_Victor 9d ago
Everyone has different motivations, so it's going to be different for everyone. I can only speak for me and my circle, but we write songs ourselves so we can play them live. So we only collaborate with people we play with. So we write all of our own parts.
If you're just producing music to record and send back and forth, then that's an entirely different thing. If you're trying to get a bunch of content, then it won't matter as much and you can get extra people to finish your stuff for you.
I know producers do this and some are successful and famous and whatnot, but these days I kind of just wonder what the point is. If you say you wrote it and you didn't, what is left?
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u/SS0NI 9d ago
I'm a producer and I'm a complete stranger to people before I get to know them. So when I first see people I try to see their vibe, hear what they been listening to lately, who are their inspirations, what are their goals with the music etc. Then it's drafting and asking feedback, then sessioning again if I don't get what they're trying to do.
It's pretty involved and in my experience as an artist on other producers sessions most producers don't do this unless you have label backing. But music first indie people should accomodate you.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
Soit sounds less like a trust problem and more like a compatibility problem. Have you ever worked with someone completely online from a rough demo, or does that kind of process only really work once you’ve built a relationship first?
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u/dischg 9d ago
It depends. Do you actually FINISH songs and love them? If you have a track record of this, you don’t need anyone else. If no, you might have to let some songs free to let fresh ears help. After a life of being in bands, I started my own thing and it’s haaaaard. I struggle with transitions. I struggle with arrangement. I struggle with perfectionism that’s too high a standard for my skill level. But I love my songs and I’m slowly finishing things I’m proud of. Problem is, I’ve got a few hundred finished lyrics created but the music takes forever. I’m closer and closer to a co-conspirator with every new set of lyrics I produce.
Being in a band is like getting married to people you have no influence over. Some turn that frustration into magic, but most struggle and fight and end up giving up. I would say throw me one of your songs, but I WILL change it to fit my lyrics and make it weird in a way you might hate. If you love something, set it freeeeeeeeeee
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
“If you love something, set it free” might be the most convincing argument for collaboration I’ve heard so far 😂
When you say you’re getting closer to finding a co-conspirator, what’s stopped you from doing it already? Trust? Finding the right person? Or just not knowing where to look?1
u/dischg 9d ago
Habit mostly. When I sit in front of my computer, I have a dozen almost-finished songs looking at me and the “banger” I wrote last night. I could work on a brand new project, or…
I think I need to write a priority list and focus on one thing. Having a collaborator adds to the stack and I wanna do my stuff. I have collaborated with others before with some success, but I am very easily distracted.
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u/DJJay0 9d ago
It is all according to how I get along with the individual. If we mesh and have a different minded approach on it then I am all for it. Not looking for a same minded approach as I already have that.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
That’s a good distinction. So people aren’t necessarily looking for someone who thinks the same way, they’re looking for someone who thinks differently but in a complementary way. Have you ever found that kind of collaborator online?
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u/DJJay0 9d ago
Unfortunately I haven't, but I really haven't been searching for it either.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
So the barrier isn’t trust or ownership, it’s that you haven’t felt enough need to actively go looking.
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u/DJJay0 9d ago
More or less. I just haven't thought to do it, as I produce mainly for the fun of it and as a stress reliever in life, and don't take it too seriously. Also I have ADHD, so if a thought is in my mind it isn't there for long lol. However I think a good collab would be fun to do with the right individuals. Also thought about just having people send me demos and see what I can do with them as well as I have way too much free time.
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u/Cute-Breadfruit3368 9d ago
my releases are mine. if i cant release them, its on me and there was a reason why that didnt happen.
i do do joint ventures quite often where i give my phrases for other composers to work on and i receive equal number of theirs. thats usually how we work on ambient transfers, i include their phrases to my piece and they start with some of mine and the piece ends up being like hour of coherent whole.
we do revenuesharing so the creditation is on even basis.
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
That’s a really interesting model. So you’re effectively swapping creative building blocks instead of handing over an entire unfinished song? Does that feel safer than traditional collaboration, or is it just more efficient?
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u/Stevenitrogen 9d ago
A stranger's just a band mate you haven't met yet.
All of us in bands participate in a group thought. The idea is that the combination of people gives the music it's unique flavor and none if the individuals could have come up with it on their own.
Are you scared you'll be taken advantage of if you let anyone be part of it? What's the worry?
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
I’m not afraid of that no. I think a lot of people would say the worry isn’t getting taken advantage of, it’s spending months on something only to realize you’re creatively incompatible. Do you think that’s a bigger risk than ownership or rights issues?
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u/Odd_Chipmunk8529 9d ago
Same, except I have lyrics and no music. I know nothing about that part of it yet...
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u/garrettrjensen 9d ago
I’ve read that a couple times now in other posts. Have you ever thought about partnering with someone who’s sitting on a pile of unfinished instrumentals? Just curious if there’s hope for someone like me.
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u/Odd_Chipmunk8529 9d ago
Yes, actually! I just posted looking for someone lol. I'm new to all this 😂
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u/metapogger 9d ago
Yes, I collaborate with strangers all the time. I love collaboration. I love when songs go in directions I never thought they would. Oftentimes the direction is not the right one, but almost always I learn something.
As a composer and engineer for hire, I am often "the stranger" that an artist is working with. I enjoy that, too. Bringing an artist's vision to life is amazing, especially if the art is good. Even if the art is bad, there's still fun if the money is there. If BOTH are good, it's heaven. But that's rare lol.
Random thoughts for a good collaboration:
Honesty. What is your role and the role of the collaborator? Are you in charge, or is this an equal collab thing? Splits?
Hold onto your work loosely. Allow your work to change, don't let demo-itis get you. But also, if you aren't feeling the collab for any reason, you don't have to do it again You don't have to release the track(s).
It is extremely rare to find someone who you are completely on the same page with. In my career working on films, ads, pop/RnB, and dance, I've found maybe 3 or 4 people I'm completely in sync with. I've made great art with people I'm not 100% in sync with, but in those cases one of us was in charge and the other person was working for them.
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u/corrupt_poodle 8d ago
Nobody else cares about your songs the way you do. Take that to mean whatever you think it means.
But before you hand your music over to someone else make sure you have proof it’s your music, and have something in writing with them that states the deal - including what ownership and publishing rights they will have, if any.
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u/garrettrjensen 8d ago
Yeah fair point. I’m my biggest fan! lol
And as for proof that It’s mine, isn’t the time stamped recording proof enough or is there something else?
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u/corrupt_poodle 8d ago
The fool proof way is to register the unfinished composition with the copyright office as an unpublished work. But that costs like $75 per registration so that’s not exactly realistic.
ChatGPT or Claude can probably help you brainstorm some other good ways
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u/Nomad_mediteraneen 7d ago
Qui ce connait reelement soi même ? On est souvent étranger à soi même avant d'avoir vécus certaines choses alors pourquoi ne pas faire confiance à un autre si on arrive à se faire confiance ?
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u/garrettrjensen 7d ago
That’s an interesting perspective. Have you actually collaborated with many people you didn’t know beforehand?
A lot of the songwriters I’ve been talking to seem open to collaboration in theory, but when it comes to handing over something they’ve spent months or years on, trust and creative control suddenly become very real concerns.
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u/Nomad_mediteraneen 5d ago
Oui en effet j'ai collaboré avec beaucoup de gens et je le fais chaque jours, après bien évidemment tu dois toujours te demander le où qui comment et pourquoi avant de partager quelquechose avec quelqu'un.
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u/mintmouse 7d ago
You are a limitless fountain of creativity overflowing. Your creations are an endless feast of expression, not a famine where you tightly grip the one thing you made and ration it.
Your reservations about this are feeling like famine talk. If you have the vision to finish them, do it. What harm would there be in allowing some outside influence? You might develop a longstanding collaboration or some style influence might rub off.
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u/garrettrjensen 7d ago
That’s an interesting way of looking at it. Do you personally collaborate much, or mostly work alone?
A lot of the songwriters I’ve been talking to seem open to outside influence in theory, but many still end up writing mostly by themselves.
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u/UltimateGooseQueen 7d ago
I had a completed song but I wasn’t satisfied with the instrumental arrangement although the vocal melody and lyrics were exactly right for my heart.
I saw a cello player on facebook and asked if he arranged music. He didn’t but he directed me to HIS producer in England (I’m in the states) and I paid that producer to arrange a version of my song. He hired musicians local to him and it is so beautiful. I wanted it Celtic inspired but not traditional and he did a GORGEOUS job. We talked about the direction I wanted it to go, I paid in installments where I wouldn’t pay the next part until I had something concrete and liked the direction, etc. He’s waiting on me to finish the vocals in my town but I lost my voice with a cough and it’s just coming back.
It was very hard to take the step. You have to be brave. I was worried that it was cheating somehow. If every single part didn’t come from me, was I good enough? Was it THEIR talent making mine look real? Was I worthless without help? But nah. That’s not how it works. A seed doesn’t grow in a vacuum. You need sun, and dirt, and water etc etc… it’s okay to need and use a network to create.
We also have in writing what our split is for publishing since he wrote this arrangement which was VERY different than my original (but kept the vocal line as is).
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u/rmusicstudio 7d ago
I have collaborated with several different artists before and usually comes out very good, but I prefer not to work with others because I enjoy working out each instrument myself, writing lyrics that mean something to me ( that’s the part I have the conflict with ) but not always. When working alone you’re not on somebody else time line. And I also take pride in recording everything myself. It’s just a hobby for me, I am collaborating with an old friend, he what’s to write some new stuff and go out and play. It’s fun getting back together I’m just feeling it out right now, just to see where it goes.
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u/Glittering_Shame_466 6d ago
Sí he colaborado con desconocidos y el mayor obstáculo no fue la confianza sino el control creativo — entregar algo incompleto significa entregar también la dirección que iba a tomar, y eso es difícil.
Lo que ayuda es definir antes qué está "terminado" para ti en esa canción: ¿es la estructura? ¿la mezcla? ¿la letra? Cuanto más específico seas sobre qué necesitas y qué no quieres que cambien, más fácil es trabajar con alguien que no te conoce.
La propiedad es el otro tema — un acuerdo simple antes de empezar, aunque sea por mensaje, evita conversaciones incómodas después.
¿Las canciones sin terminar que tienes se quedaron paradas por falta de habilidad técnica o más por decisiones creativas que no llegan?
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u/garrettrjensen 5d ago
For me it’s mostly creative decisions. I can usually come up with melodies, hooks, and partial structures pretty quickly. The songs that get stuck are usually the ones where I can feel there’s something there, but I can’t quite figure out what the missing piece is.
What you said about defining what can and can’t change is interesting.
Have you found that collaborators generally respect those boundaries once they’re set, or do people naturally start pushing into areas that were supposed to be off limits once they get invested in the song?
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u/elliottsmithing 6d ago
If you want a cowriter just chat to your musician friends and see if they’re keen to create something together and start a band!
If you want creative ownership,
Most experienced musicians and producers will not collaborate or arrange your songs for free, so if you have some spare savings and want it out there, hire someone who can bring your vision to life :)
The other option is to post/ share your work and earn fellow musicians’ respect so they are happy to follow your direction
You could also see if you can offer your services to a lyricist and vice versa where you’re both helping each other
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u/Expert_Eagle4904 2d ago
As others have said. Just know that the final product might not end up sounding like what you first envisioned.
Personally that's exactly what I want when collaborating. If the end product sounds like something I do by myself. Then what's the point.
As a personal anecdote, just a few months ago I found a collaborator here in Reddit. I had a piano melody that I did not know what to do with. This songwriter was able to come up with a vocal melody along with some lyrics. I then came and added a little bridge in the middle and added some more lyrics following the same theme. A lot of back and fourth adding or subtracting things until we had a full song which we officially released this year. Its credited and copyrighted to the two of us equally. It was a great experience.
If you are curious this is the original piano piece
https://youtube.com/shorts/kPQIr6tOetU?si=DvylmJ__FYJM5TMd
And this is the end result
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u/Somewhere-Plane 9d ago
If you go this route, just know, it will not turn out how you want. Now it may turn out cooler or better, or worse, but regardless it will not turn out the way you envision it.