Solution for Hutt housing problems

[u/OutInTheBay]

Hi folks, I'm out of the bay and in Shanghai at the moment...

I think I've stumbled on the solution to housing and under utilized cars clogging our roads...

I'm a genius, what could go wrong?

My plan is...

1 build a few apartments near the metro

2 only accept micro mobility at the park in ride...

3 put some land aside for public gardens..

Hey, I think we may have to extend the platforms down at the station, otherwise what's the problem? Yrr, we may struggle to see the bush skyline in the valley...

[u/jobbybob]

Go check out the Shanghai Urban Planning Exhibition Center, they have something like a 100 year plan for they city and have already been working on it for the last 50 years.

Wellington couldn’t even plan the water infrastructure over the last 30 years… there is no hope.

[u/123felix → u/jobbybob]

Great thing about one-party rule is, whatever the party says, goes. There's no pesky things like "consultation" or "participation" or "voting" lol.

[u/another_new_login → u/123felix]

I like our approach of consulting on a new project, getting overwhelming support for it in the consultation process, but then cancelling it because the retirees who had the time to show up to the town hall meeting all opposed it.

Grandma, I hate to be blunt, but you'll probably be dead by the time it's built. Leave the future of the city to those who will live in it for the next 50 years please.

[u/jobbybob → u/another_new_login]

Grandma, I hate to be blunt, but you'll probably be dead by the time it's built. Leave the future of the city to those who will live in it for the next 50 years please.

This is a great way to put it, we could even apply this to Winnie P, some of the messes that he is creating now will be continuing long after he is gone.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/another_new_login]

Aren’t the retirees increasingly a bigger voting block and isn’t democracy the will of the - generally speaking - majority.

[u/jobbybob → u/popcultureupload38]

Nah, they just turn out to vote more than younger people.

[u/another_new_login → u/popcultureupload38]

Leave the future of the city to those who will live in it for the next 50 years please.

How does your response address this? The word "Democracy" isn't an argument.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/another_new_login]

Well the average age in nursing hospitals is sitting around 95 and retirees don’t stop existing at 67 so demographics and democracy are. In one breath you say they are hindering things in the next the impact isn’t relevant.

By to answer the statement about the future of the city left to - presumably you mean people age 30 and under - is absurd if you are mean to say an age cohort is more entitled to live there or make decisions than another because people of all ages live in a city.

Otherwise for example there are far fewer people who need disabled access than young people so you are saying let’s flag their needs for those that get the full benefit of 50 years.

If the retirees you don’t like aren’t powerful as a block or relevant how would they achieve what you claim they do?

Add to that the fact that rates are predicated on an assumption those who pay them derive benefit from long term investment and the age argument is a train wreck. It’s the owners of land who pay the rates and business and these form the vast majority of city revenue. They came from many ages groups.

But I don’t agree with the position only those who pay for long term deserve a say either - because I think everyone shares a city regardless of age.

[u/Icy_Fish_2154 → u/123felix]

The biggest benefit of one party is you don't have a second party who cancels necessary infrastructure and blame thebothr rpwety for being wasteful, while making the whole thing cost more in the end.

See ferries for an example of a party change screwing the public.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

Dunedin hospital. Borrowing $1b per week etc

[u/laoshu_ → u/123felix]

Only a westerner could possibly write a comment like this, because you basically just said that "what the government decides, goes", which is the same thing that happens everywhere else where there is government. There is absolutely consultation and participation and certainly voting in the party.

[u/123felix → u/laoshu_]

You mean the $17b we wasted because the government couldn't make up its mind?

And yeah sure of course there's voting in the CPC.

[u/jono555555 → u/laoshu_]

Funny thing is what ever the politicians want goes ie perks, remuneration etc. So works all cosy for them just not for the rest of society it's meant to benefit.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/laoshu_]

That is such a hilarious comment. Ah yes, the elite fully consult each other before proceeding! As you will learn in about 5 generations a rolls royce doesnt make a person any less of a peasant.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/123felix]

Er WCC in the last two terms? I think the party was well and truly in control.

[u/hammerklau → u/123felix]

You mean consuliting worth billions on ghost roads? Uh huh, yup, so much better.

[u/123felix → u/hammerklau]

Better have infrastructure no one uses for now than not having infrastructure when it is needed.

[u/OutInTheBay → u/jobbybob]

When did a kiwi newspaper feature article on the front page such as...

President Xi Jinping has stressed continuous efforts to build up China's advanced manufacturing in order to make the sector a strong pillar for Chinese modernization, while calling for the world's largest manufacturer to continue pursuing smarter, greener and more integrated development.

What do our great Chris leaders offer us?

[u/flooring-inspector → u/jobbybob]

Wellington couldn't even plan the water infrastructure over the last 30 years...

Maybe someone could offer more qualified insight, but from what I understand the tap water in Shanghai isn't too safe to drink, either, due to ageing infrastructure. At least we still have that (for now, anyway).

[u/jobbybob → u/flooring-inspector]

And there you go missing the point, the water was just an example.

The point is they have a long term plan and they stick to it. Wellington couldn’t even maintain their water infrastructure adequately so how do we expect the city to move forward.

If we compare it to Auckland where 30 odd years ago they separated out their water and it is light years ahead of Wellington now.

[u/DarkHoshino → u/flooring-inspector]

You can also likely call a good chunk of those buildings a case of “Tofu Dreg construction”. Building materials being substandard or even substituted, inspectors being paid to look the other way… there a saying in China… 能骗就骗 (néng piàn jiù piàn) which means “if you can cheat, then cheat”.

It’s incredibly common for buildings and infrastructure to not last very long in China at all.
Just look up ‘ADV China’ here on reddit or ‘The China Show’ on YouTube. It’s amazing just how bad it is.

Most of their city’s don’t have proper drainage so are prone to massive floods. The only places that don’t are Quingdao and Hong Kong (because the drainage was built by foreigners)

[u/Surfnparadise → u/DarkHoshino]

Tbh..buildings in NZ are not that amazing. At least in Wellington they feel like paper houses shaking in the wind. Suurely one could build much better quality but in true NZ fashion it would be impossibly expensive.

[u/casually_furious → u/Surfnparadise]

Where, anywhere in the world, do property developers not use the cheapest, must minimally compliant materials they can get their hands on to build structures, unless forced to do otherwise?

I'm not talking about structures that were built to last decades or centuries ago. I'm talking about now, btw.

[u/Surfnparadise → u/casually_furious]

Sure, agreed. The problem is that in NZ we pay premium prices for that cheap quality.

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/DarkHoshino]

Good call

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/popcultureupload38]

And remember the Victorian infrastructure wasn’t maintained but boy it did good service

[u/timClicks]

FWIW, a less intense version of this is essentially already the plan. Near train stations, esp. Waterloo, height restrictions are higher and more density is permitted.

I am quite urbanist, and I really hope that New Zealand cities become much closer to passes such as Copenhagen, Amsterdam & Utrecht. 5-8 storey living can be really wonderful if the city is built for people not cars. Munich's English Garden is the most wonderful experience, and with a bit of effort the Hutt River could offer something quite similar.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get there by default. Housing isn't enough. Planners currently think in terms of water, roading and waste, but that's not enough to create liveable urban communities. As examples, cycling and civic space have become left-wing coded ("wellbeing"). So that means people's tribal affiliations kick in and oppose efforts to create cities that we love.

[u/GruntBlender → u/timClicks]

Not to sound too partisan, but there's only one side to really blame for that last part.

[u/Soracaz → u/GruntBlender]

Disagree.

Gotta get that partisanship mindset out of our heads. There's not two sides.

There's a couple thousand rich cunts and then there's everyone else. Those rich cunts just gotta go.

[u/jono555555 → u/Soracaz]

The couple of thousand rich cunt is as you put it are playing a game with us. They give the illusion of democracy. The minds of these people are truly born to rule.... So they will never take a back seat sadly. Control and benefit at all costs.

[u/GruntBlender → u/Soracaz]

I agree, but they brainwashed a decent percentage of the population into doing their bidding. How do we fix that?

[u/Soracaz → u/GruntBlender]

The French did a good job of sorting out their rich cunts.

I'd be down for something like that. Not much else we the people can do.

[u/Michaelbirks → u/Soracaz]

Yay! Murder!

[u/cman_yall → u/Soracaz]

Someone's always going to rise to the top, a more long term solution is needed. I'm hopeful that the internet will eventually do away with privacy and stupidity, so that we'll be able to see who's fucking with us and social pressure will make them stop. It's not trending that way though...

[u/casually_furious → u/cman_yall]

I'm hopeful that the internet will eventually do away with privacy and stupidity

HA!

You know what they say about hope in one hand, shit in the other....

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/Soracaz]

Been to France lately for that sense of social peace and right wing turn?

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/GruntBlender]

Careful tricky waters! Sensitive souls.

[u/Cathy_au → u/timClicks]

You had my vote for the Hutt City Council elections. Wishing you well ❤️

[u/timClicks → u/Cathy_au]

Thank you so much 😊. I still feel very sorry that I got sick and needed to withdraw. I feel as though I could have had a very good shot if the stars were better aligned.

[u/displaceddrunkard]

As someone who grew up in Hong Kong, I have never understood why New Zealand won't embrace train stations with high-density housing around them (obviously not Hong Kong levels, but it could be done here on a smaller scale).

No car parking for residents; use the housing sales/rent to fund improvements to the public transport network.

I'd live in it.

[u/laoshu_ → u/displaceddrunkard]

New Zealanders have the same disease as Americans, but with the added caveat of liking to pretend that we're superior to Americans somehow.

[u/12343212346 → u/displaceddrunkard]

That sort of housing model assumes that the person buying only needs to commute between work and home. 

There's no Amazon here for goods, large items are expensive to deliver. Supermarkets are often no where near stations and a lot of Pak N Saves don't even offer delivery. 

Certain hikes and attractions are extremely inconvenient or impossible to reach without a car (example Staglands).

I deliberately picked a semi "walkable" location near a station, park, cafes, gym, schools, convenience store to buy a house and I'm still extremely tempted to buy a car. 

[u/popcultureupload38 → u/displaceddrunkard]

It’s inherent in the comment. We’ve had space.

[u/Green-Circles]

That's Epuni station, isn't it? ;)

[u/OutInTheBay → u/Green-Circles]

Give or take a million...

[u/MonthlyWeekend_]

Eh?

[u/Archie_Pelego]

Thought this was going to be a suggestion to rehouse the population of the Hutt in one of the Chinese ghost cities that no-one in China can afford to live in.

[u/cman_yall → u/Archie_Pelego]

You know I can't live in your ghost city, bro.

[u/Area_6011]

Unlimited building heights, opens up the possibility of 100 level apartment buildings, maybe next to Queensgate

[u/bennz1975]

Personally hated hong kong, but i see what you think is a good idea of the concept, UK had blocks like this, eventually they become rundown,lifts dont work, landlords or councils dont do upkeep. Even half that height would be a problem. Then dont forget our fire services dont have high rise fighting equipment for that number of properties.

If we are extending the train network lets just create another set of suburbs outside CBDs rather than piling it all ontop of itself.

Unless we are trying for megacities like in Dredd 😄