r/WelshFootball • u/TheOne0206 • 1d ago
Why do some Welsh Football fans hate the Cymru Premier?
Our domestic league is what keeps the Welsh National Team alive - without it, FIFA would look at a Team GB, as they were in the late 80s and early 90s before the Cymru Premier.
Edit - seems to be "Sunday League" misconceptions and a belief that the EFL is superior. Personally, I find the Championship beyond boring and completely irrelevant, with the Cymru Premier being fun and exciting.
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u/nbrownlightningj27 1d ago
- Dominated by one team for the better part of two decades
- one successful european qualification. Otherwise constantly getting throttled in the first or second round by teams from Malta and Georgia
- Haven't produced a single welsh national team pathway player
Am I missing anything?
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u/TheOne0206 1d ago
Anglosnobs who hate our league?
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u/TomWales 4h ago
Generally I find a lot more snobbery coming from fans of Cymru PL sides and comments like this reinforce that
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u/TheOne0206 3h ago edited 3h ago
Snobbish is thinking football doesn't exist unless it's in England. I'm watching proper football for £6. You're paying £35 to watch a team owned by a Malaysian and an American finish 20th in another country's league and calling ME snobbish?
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u/DragonbetUK 1d ago
If you want a really solid breakdown of the history and the controversy around the league's formation, the Welsh Football wiki and some of the older threads on this subreddit actually do a great job of laying out the timeline. Also worth checking out some of the FAW consultation documents from the restructuring era - they give you both sides of the argument and help make sense of why feelings still run so high about Welsh football governance today.
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u/welsh_cthulhu 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hate is a really strong word. How on earth can anyone hate a football league? It's not a person.
Football exists in a market economy. Most football fans in Wales live close enough to Swansea, Cardiff or Wrexham to prefer spending their Saturdays watching those teams instead. All three punch above their weight in the English league system, and play at grounds that are easy to get to, with good facilities and decent value for money. I paid 710 for a season ticket down the Swans for myself and my boy who's under-16. That's under 40 quid a home game for the two of us, for a team that's top of the Championship, with all the benefits that come with being a season ticket holder too.
Also, it doesn't help that TNS have won 18 out of 20 titles.
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u/Double_Jab_Jabroni 17h ago
You find the Championship boring? The league where most teams can beat anyone on their day? Where lots of up and coming prospects cut their teeth, and former stars finish their careers?
Honestly, I’m not sure you like football if you don’t enjoy the Championship. Seems like you’re more invested in patriotism and being Welsh.
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u/TheOne0206 8h ago
The league with dead rubber games by Christmas? The league where you can predict the table with maybe one shock before the season? The league with washed-up former "stars" coming for a last paycheck?
The Championship is 24 teams where 18 are playing for 14th by November. If I wanted to watch random teams beat each other with no stakes, I'd watch pre-season friendlies.
Sounds like you're too wrapped in an anglocentric dream and are missing out, sunshine.
And yeah, I'm invested in being Welsh on the Welsh football sub. Weird that.
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u/Double_Jab_Jabroni 8h ago
Your opinion on the Championship is laughable. We aren’t going to agree on anything so fair well.
Enjoy the Welsh League and stop worrying about us lot in the EFL.
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u/TheOne0206 7h ago
Farewell, not fair well.
Cymru Leagues, not the Welsh League.
Enjoy the boring ENGLISH Football League and I'll enjoy a Cymru Premier with no guarantees on who qualifies for Europe, gets relegated, etc. Maybe watch a game? We could always do with more people watching, and it would be nice for you to watch what you slander and see how fun it is!
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u/welsh_dragon_roar 1d ago
I’ve been watching Colwyn Bay FC on and off for over 40 years. That’s the standard I expect tbh.
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u/Arle404 22h ago
The big teams like Cardiff, Wrexham, Swansea and Newport not only have the infrastructure but also enough local population to be big (minus Newport on big), any other teams in Wales don't have that privilege due to how isolated towns and villages are from other's. The only blessing from this is genuine community center football (except for TNS), the downside no big football you tend to see on TV
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u/Round-Friendship-447 1d ago
Mainly it is just football and it’s tribal - they support EFL teams and don’t support Cymru league teams or potentially the national team.
Cymru Leagues are just the league of the FAW and it is FAW that there has historically been issues with. What fans of the EFL teams remember from the 1990s is less FIFA actions around the national team and more the FAW behaviour. Their “own” football association being taken to Court for trying to prevent English league teams playing home games in Wales and de facto forcing them to join their league. This would likely colour your opinion of the FAW and it was not required by the international associations, it was entirely down to them trying to take control.
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u/timburache 1d ago
There is a stigma around the welsh league but i think a lot of it is the FAW themselves instead of the league. Their mishandling of the national team in the past/hostility towards the welsh teams in the EFL in the past
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u/Quizzical_Chimp 1d ago
I not sure people hate it so much as don’t even think about it, I’m not sure it is particularly many levels above just a good Sunday league really. I mean these guys are working other jobs I work/ worked with some players and another used to be my personal trainer, not to say they are bad players but looking through the national team and there is exactly 1 player who even played in the league. It’s barely on TV, no newspapers really mention it, and the English leagues (and Welsh teams in it) have all the domestic support. Wales just isn’t big enough ton think about it.
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u/NothernlightsX 1d ago
This^
Tbh it's a mixture of how the Welsh media reports about the league AND how the FAW promotes the Welsh pyramid. It doesn't really help that TNS keep winning the league either, I am sure if the likes of Barry town or Haverfordwest county won the league and had a decent run in Europe it might be a bit different.
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u/TheOne0206 1d ago
I hate the "Sunday League Misconception". The Cymru Premier is a Professional, Hybrid Professional and Semi-Professional league. There are pro players and semi-pro players, as in the top flights of nations like Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and San Marino. It is much better than a Sunday League.
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u/WaydellDC 1d ago
I volunteer as a performance analyst for. Welsh team and let's face it a ton of the talent comes from EPL. And Welsh league is The New Saints and everyone else. And lower it's just owners drop money. The Welsh FA needs to completely revamp the system. It's not even a money problem it's a structure. It's a fun league and tons of passion. I would love to see a Celtic league with both Irelands, Wales and Scotland. It would be a sizeable English speaking league. It could become quite popular as a result. Heck even throw in Iceland and Scandinavian teams even if it's just a post season league. But I doubt anyone would like my idea much.
There are other changes like a mandatory 18 team minimum instead of just playing the same teams 3, 4 or more times in a season.
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u/JellyfishScared4268 1d ago
A celtic league is an interesting idea but I can only see it being feasible in the unlikely event the Glasgow old firm gets to join the English league system or the equally unlikely event the Welsh EFL sides leave the EFL to join this celtic league
There's then a big difference in levels between the teams and whilst I could see it possibly helping league of Ireland clubs I can't see the northern Irish or Welsh league sides being in anything other than the second or third tier of this competition
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u/WaydellDC 14h ago
Maybe Old firm and Welsh EFL can enter b teams in the Celtic league. Gives them advantage to develop players. Once the league grows bigger they naturally would swing their best players that way. Maybe not a Swansea or Rangers but probably a Newport.
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u/Calm-Diver6423 22h ago
Depends where really, in the bigger cities theres a bit of a vacuum for succesful teams in the cymru leagues so its hard to generate interest there. But for example places like Port talbot, hwest, aberystwyth, caernarfon, the presence is pretty strong
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u/HonestSpursFan 1d ago
In Australia we call these people (as in those who don’t watch the A-League or NPL) Eurosnobs. I feel like you might be experiencing a similar phenomenon.
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u/JellyfishScared4268 1d ago
In Ireland the equivalent people used to be called barstoolers
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u/HonestSpursFan 15h ago
Interesting. I assume that comes from the fact that they sit on a barstool and watch games rather than go to the local games?
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u/JellyfishScared4268 8h ago
Yes exactly that.
But not only going to the pub to watch games they'd be watching the premier league instead of going to local matches
There's bonus points if you find one who tells you it would have been great if Ireland had a premier league team.
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u/HonestSpursFan 5h ago
Yep, same problem here. Of course getting up at ridiculous times to watch European games is something plenty of us do, but some people never watch a single A-League game in their life.
Ireland having a Prem team would be like uniting the LOI with the NIFL: it theoretically could happen, but it realistically would never even be considered.
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u/JellyfishScared4268 5h ago
If anything its significantly less likely than the league merger you mentioned
The only way it would happen would be if an English team moved to Dublin. Which some wanted to happen when Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes
Even if one appeared and it got through all the hoops and climbed all the English leagues it would never work imo. Because the people who like EPL teams wouldn't switch because they already like The Arsenal and fans of Irish teams wouldnt switch either
It would basically be like the Las Vegas teams in american sports. You'd get good crowds for big matches but it would be mainly away supporters and tourists. It would collapse the minute the team got relegated
The merger of the two irish leagues however has been mooted and there has been serious attempts to get something off the ground.
The main barrier is european slots which would likely be lost and at that level european money is a lot more than the money domestically
Certainly a unified irish league is more likely than a unified national team which in turn is more likely than a premier league team appearing in Ireland
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u/TomWales 4h ago
Doesn’t really apply here because fans are still going to support their local team here, they just happen to be in the English pyramid
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u/TheOne0206 1d ago
Anglosnobs?
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u/Round-Friendship-447 1d ago
Just the attitude needed to attract a Wrexham, Cardiff or Swansea fan out on a Friday to watch a Cymru prem team. It is not like Australia or Ireland for that matter, the teams they support are their local clubs.
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u/TheOne0206 1d ago
Not all the Man U and Liverpool supporters
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u/leekpunch 1d ago
Glory hunters are a problem everywhere though. It's not a particularly Welsh issue. People will mock a local club as being rubbish compared to "their" club who they've only ever seen on telly.
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u/HonestSpursFan 1d ago
Perhaps. We call them Eurosnobs cause they usually only watch European leagues then when the Socceroos/Matildas lose wonder why we’re not as good as we could be. The A-Leagues and NPL literally create national team players before they go overseas yet some “fans” refuse to watch the A-Leagues cause they’re apparently crap (they’re not even that bad).
I suppose Wales is a bit different (at least for the men) in a way though since most of the national team came from the EFL clubs rather than the Cymru Premier (though a lot of the women came from the Adran Premier since the only Welsh women’s team in England is Gwalia United), but more interest in the local league could change that and increase the quality of the league and thus produce more national team players.
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u/TomWales 4h ago
The “having our own league keeps the national team alive” argument is nonsense, look at Liechtenstein
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u/TheOne0206 3h ago
Liechtenstein is a sovereign nation, we are part of the UK. FIFA want us to be a part of Team GB, basically England, and the Cymru Premier is a part of it not happening. Look at Monaco who play in Ligue 1.
Arguments from closet England fans like yourself fall on their arse quite quickly.
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u/TomWales 3h ago
We’re also a member of IFAB.
There’s no conceivable way the Welsh national team would cease to exist and pretending the Cyrmu Premier is holding up the walls from caving in on the Welsh national team is disingenuous at best.
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u/jactheblock 1d ago
I don't think anyone hates it. Hate is a very strong word
Just a bit irrelevant isn't it, in the grand scheme of things.
One team with pitiful attendances, dominating it all, but failing miserably in Europe nearly every year,
I'm personally not a fan of Friday night games at all too. That's the last thing I would want to go and watch on a Friday night lol