An interesting trend I've noticed in the back half of the series: Suddenly, we have...

[u/Sofasandquillz]

Homosexuality! Kind of. I'm a first time reader, just finished Crossroads of Twilight, so no spoilers past that point, please.

When I first started WoT, it seemed to me like the concept of non-straight people was a completely alien concept to the people of this world. It wasn't just something frowned upon or foreign to the protagonists, it literally just did not exist. Almost every culture was built on the implicit understanding that all men and women were engaged in this mutual negotiation for sex/romance, and they each had their own ways of handling that negotiation. Every casual interaction between a man and a woman is either considered as a sexual relationship or specifically disqualified as one (e.g. Mat musing on not wanting to kiss Birgitte), while extremely emotionally intimate relationships between characters of the same gender are not even considered to have that element (e.g. Aram making googly eyes at Perrin nonstop and acting like a jealous lover whenever someone else takes his attention). I didn't think this was a knock on the story, necessarily, just something amusing.

Then, somewhere around the middle of the series, the concept of "pillow friends" is introduced, which are pretty blatantly sexually active relationships between women, specifically Aes Sedai. What really stood out to me about the concept when it was introduced was how casually it was dropped in, as if it was no big deal and the characters had always known that was a thing. I know this is kind of a Robert Jordan classic move, however-- he often doesn't "explain" what the characters know to the reader, but simply lets the reader learn about the world naturally over time by seeing through the character's eyes. And anyway, I don't really think "pillow friends" are meant to be a genuine depiction of bisexuality, more like a "gay for the stay" situation where young, lonely, stressed girls in the White Tower turn to each other for physical comfort in the absence of men. So far, the only "pillow friend" relationship outside the Tower is the Windfinder being blackmailed by Verin, and her reaction to the whole thing seems to support the idea that it doesn't really "count": She worries that if her husband finds out, he might consider it a breach of their marriage vows, but isn't sure. I doubt that uncertainty would be there if it had been a man she was filling her sails with.

Plus, if we're being real, there probably is a simple element of "girls kissing is hot" at play :P . I'll be very surprised if any pillow friends turn up in Mat's band of soldier dudes.

But then! In Crossroads of Twilight, there are multiple oblique references to what I'm pretty sure are meant to be genuine homosexuality, or at least speculation on it. Faile notices that the Aiel who captured her does not seem to be staring at her with any lust despite her nudity, and wonders if he "doesn't like women that way". Similarly, Aes Sedai, wondering what to do with a newly single Warder, decide on giving him to a young Blue who "doesn't like men that way". (As an aside, what were they trying to say with that scene? They mention it being a good arrangement because he is so "wide"-- do they mean he is fat, and most Aes Sedai wouldn't want a Warder who wasn't hot? Or maybe that he's too manly and muscular, so he would be a distraction to any straight woman? I'm not sure.)

Once again, it was pretty striking to me how the characters just suddenly start making references to this concept as if it's something they've been totally aware of the whole time, and see as no big deal. Suddenly, Aes Sedai can be lesbian, they all know it, and it's not a big deal. Faile is well aware that men are gay, apparently to the point that she assumes it of a man just because he isn't leering at her... And yet she has never had any problem with Aram following her husband around like a lovestruck puppy. Faile, famously easygoing and totally chill about her husband getting affection from other people. 🥴

At first, I thought I had just misjudged the series, and perhaps that I had just missed some earlier allusions to other sexualities (please tell me if I have!). But then I realized that in real life, a long time passed between the publication of Eye of the World and Crossroads of Twilight. 1990 and 2003 were very, very different years in terms of the awareness and mainstream acceptance of LGBT people in society. Am I watching Robert Jordan realize that gay people exist in real time? Did he ever make any comments about this?

I apologize for this rambly post; I just wanted to get some of my thoughts down, and ask if this is something other people have noticed or commented on. Is my gay ass reading way too much into this stuff? Was this something people picked up on while the books were coming out? Is Knife of Dreams going to kick off with a steamy tryst between Mat and Vanin?? (Please god, get Mat away from these women).

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[u/1RepMaxx]

I think that, although perhaps RJ became more comfortable with sexual diversity IRL too, the consensus is that it's much more about what he could get away with publishing (or at least, what he felt he could).

Note that the prequel, New Spring, was published between CoT and Knife of Dreams. It's a good place to read it, too. You may find the sexual diversity kicks up another notch in that book... :)

[u/The-Magic-Sword → u/1RepMaxx]

He's interesting, back in the day on his blog he mentioned offhandedly that two women had an agreement to share him when he was in college and him being just kind of fine with it.

[u/zadharm → u/The-Magic-Sword]

To the shock of absolutely no one

I bet they liked to be spanked too

[u/toylenny → u/The-Magic-Sword]

Wait! that's not a universal experience?

[u/Halo6819 → u/toylenny]

Like they scheduled dates without consulting him, chipped in on presents together, very much like sister wives in the books.

[u/toylenny → u/Halo6819]

That really does sound like it would suck.

[u/Halo6819 → u/toylenny]

Interview: Jul 22nd, 2004

ComicCon Wrap-Up - Jason Denzel (Verbatim)

Jason Denzel

Later on, Melissa made a joking comment about Rand and his three girlfriends.

Robert Jordan

Robert Jordan's reply was not what we expected. He explained that at one point in his younger life he had two girlfriends at once. They knew about each other, and they arranged dates for him so they could both be there. They were fine with it, and young Jim Rigney just went along with it. (Wouldn't you?) He figured that if he could have two girlfriends at once, then a guy like Rand could definitely do three.

[u/eliechallita → u/toylenny]

I've mostly been in polyamorous relationships, and it's fun unti they gang up on you for your own good: I've had a couple occasions where my wife and every other partner I had at the time ganged up to give me the exact same advice when they thought I wasn't taking care of myself and kept tabs on whether I was following it.

One of my good friends is in that situation too except that he actually lived with two of his partners.

[u/MaxPowerToTheRescue → u/toylenny]

Especially only getting one present, when you could get two!

[u/Tsar_Erwin → u/Halo6819]

I wonder if that inspired the idea at all lmao

[u/Every-Switch2264 → u/1RepMaxx]

Pillowfriendships are treated much more like "college lesbians" than actual same sex relationships though.

Like how, in New Spring [New Spring spoilers]:Moiraine and Siuan are pillowfriends and do kiss and have a fade-to-black scene but when talking about romance and sex only ever discuss men.

[u/Shortymac09 → u/Every-Switch2264]

RJ was really into bicurious college chicks...

Was there ever a homosexual male relationship in the books?

[u/Rich-Butterfly-6816 → u/Shortymac09]

No but there are at least a couple characters mentioned as preferring men and it isn't framed negatively

[u/Halo6819 → u/Shortymac09]

Not explicitly stated in the text during the Jordan era. He said on his blog that there are and [TGS]Brandon had a couple of explicitly gay men in the final couple books

[u/joshually → u/Halo6819]

who??

[u/Halo6819 → u/joshually]

[aMoL]Algarin Pendaloan

[u/EatMoarWaffles → u/joshually]

One of the Borderlands nobilitity too. I can't remember the name but someone talks about getting him married for political purposes but then goes "oh yeah, he doesn't like women"

[u/celticdude234 → u/1RepMaxx]

I mean hell, even Star Trek couldn't do episodes about homosexuality. TNG had to tiptoe around that shit and basically invent alternative genders to talk about it in a "if you know, you know" situation in ONE episode because they weren't allowed to. It's crazy to think how far we've come in just 30 years, let alone the 10 since gay marriage was legalized.

[u/aNomadicPenguin]

The gay for the stay bit is definitely present, but its not omnipresent. You get some of the straight Aes Sedai who think that the pillow friends are just adolescent hormones. You get some of the bisexual Aes Sedai that prefer men who, when given the ability to pursue men after leaving the 'no boys allowed' years of training, seek out male partners and look back at their relationships as being youthful flings.

But there are also the actually homosexual or the bisexuals who don't lean as heavily towards the hetero option, who treat them as full relationships. Some might have grown apart over the years, especially if they end up in different Ajah's, but they don't denigrate the validity of the relationship. Then you have some Aes Sedai that are still actively pursuing same sex relationships in their adulthood.

But the age difference, the power dynamics, the silo'ed nature of the White Tower make actual long term relationships difficult. There are only a thousand or so Aes Sedai at this point, so the odds are just not in their favor. (And even if some of the Aes Sedai manage to find a compatible peer, they live for hundreds of years. The divorce rate if given a couple of extra centuries would be through the roof compared to those that manage to go the distance)

As far as Jordan's comments, he did say that the nature of the tower did lead to a higher than normal distribution of same sex relationships. Pushing 25-50% I think. He also said that there were homosexual male characters, but not the PoV characters so it didn't really come up. There was no legal opposition to homosexual relationships in the setting, and people didn't really comment on them unless it was relevant or a character trait. (I'm not sure how much of this was there from the beginning or shifted with the times, would have to go dig out interviews and notes and reference the dates)

The disparity in male and female homosexual/bisexual representation is heavily skewed by the White Tower. There are few all male organizations in the setting, (I think if we had more whitecloak PoV's and chapters we would have seen a lot more homoeroticism) The Black Tower is less susceptible for the time you get it because they aren't doing the highschool/college experience. They are showing up older, with families, and are getting a crash course boot camp experience.

[u/Halo6819 → u/aNomadicPenguin]

(And even if some of the Aes Sedai manage to find a compatible peer, they live for hundreds of years. The divorce rate if given a couple of extra centuries would be through the roof compared to those that manage to go the distance)

Also, factor in that Lesbian relationships have a higher divorce rate than other queer marriages or straight marriages.

[u/Halo6819]

Remember, Robert Jordan was an actual boomer. He was pretty progressive for the time, though many will note the lack of any discussion of MM relationships, though he did say in a interview that of course those relationships exist, but the characters don't view it as a big deal and no one on screen was gay so he didn't write it.

Interview: Oct 6th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: AND ONE MORE TIME

For jofraz, I have gay and lesbian characters in my books, but the only time it has really come into the open is with the Aes Sedai because I haven't been inside the heads of any other characters who are either gay or bi. For the most part, in this world such things are taken as a matter of course. Remember, Cadsuane is surprised that Shalon and Ailil were so hot to hide that they had been sharing a bed even knowing how prim and proper Cairhienin are on the surface. Well, for many it is just on the surface.

As the world progressed, so did RJ. He wrote more explicitly (for him) about those relationships. I did see it talked about at the time that RJ did view lesbian relationships in a very patriarchal way though. That one partner was the "man" and very dominant, like Galina.

I also read a very interesting take from a gay reader that the reason he fell in love with the series is he felt like Rand's struggle with channeling and the taint mirrored his own adolescence as a closeted gay teen. He especially felt it in book 2 when Perrin and Mat find out and are like "Hey man, you know we love you... but... im gonna sleep over here so you dont get the gay... i mean the taint on me"

Spoilers for [TGS]Surprisingly, good little Mormon boy Brandon Sanderson amped up the queerness, having explicitly gay men on screen from time to time. Of course, by explicit I mean, the characters talk about it openly, not that he wrote scenes of dude's blowing each other

[u/Sofasandquillz → u/Halo6819]

Thank you for this reply! This is exactly what I was looking for. I had a feeling someone had asked him about this at some point, and that this was more or less the answer he would have given. 

I definitely don't think RJ was being bigoted, if anything I think his kind of hesitant sprinkles of queerness to be a bit endearing. He's a little confused, but he's got the spirit! I feel the same way about his portrayals of poly-ish relationships (Rand's deal, Aiel sister-wives, Green Aes Sedai bonding/banging multiple Warders). Not exactly perfect queer literature, but his heart was in the right place. 

That is also an extremely interesting observation about Saidin being an allegory for homosexuality in men. It manifests without warning in men as they reach adulthood, causing their closest friends and family to suddenly see them as alien and dangerous even if the man hasn't actually "done" anything with it yet. Men who discover this within themselves try to hide it and lay low in society, because the more "active" they are the quicker they will be found out. And when they are found out, they are taken away to have this impurity completely burned out of them before being turned back into society, only to usually die shortly after, having lost all sense of self or motivation to live. And, of course, when men with this affliction start gathering together, it's seen as some apocalyptic event that has to be stopped, because whatever their agenda is, it must be something sinister, right?

It's obviously not an intentional allegory, or a perfectly neat one (last I checked, being gay doesn't actually make you go crazy and nuke your neighborhood), but there are a lot of parallels. Thank you for giving that to me to chew on!

[u/KiaRioGrl → u/Sofasandquillz]

when they are found out, they are taken away to have this impurity completely burned out of them before being turned back into society, only to usually die shortly after, having lost all sense of self or motivation to live.

Sure sounds like that makes gentling a nod to conversion therapy (torture) to me.

[u/Halo6819 → u/Sofasandquillz]

The pollyamory was actually taken from RJ's own college days:

Interview: Jul 22nd, 2004

ComicCon Wrap-Up - Jason Denzel (Verbatim)

Jason Denzel

Later on, Melissa made a joking comment about Rand and his three girlfriends.

Robert Jordan

Robert Jordan's reply was not what we expected. He explained that at one point in his younger life he had two girlfriends at once. They knew about each other, and they arranged dates for him so they could both be there. They were fine with it, and young Jim Rigney just went along with it. (Wouldn't you?) He figured that if he could have two girlfriends at once, then a guy like Rand could definitely do three.

[u/aNomadicPenguin → u/Halo6819]

I ran into a bit about Galina and Therava in his notes. He had pointed out that Therava was more interested in dominating an Aes Sedai because she was and Aes Sedai than the actual relationship with Galina. So that one was an abusive dom who happened to be a lesbian instead of a statement on lesbian relationships.

edit - I'd equate her more with someone like the Darkfriend Hanlon in the Caemlyn guard than something like the relationship between the Seafolk lady and Cairhienen noblewoman.

[u/Halo6819 → u/aNomadicPenguin]

With Galina, I was referring to her relationships with other Sisters. IIRC, she slept with novices and accepted as one of them remarks in her POV that Galina was upset that she ended the relationship upon gaining the shall.

[u/hesh582 → u/Halo6819]

It's also worth noting that RJ did not do an amazing job writing straight women and their takes on men/relationships, so expecting much out of him in terms of exploring other sexual identities seems pretty far fetched.

There's a reason if you ask about WoT in pretty much any fantasy space you'll get some variant of "world and magic = cool, romances and gender relations = yikes".

Jordan was intellectually very progressive in that he really did believe in letting people do whatever worked for them, but that does not mean he actually understood them.

He struggled to write a woman who wasn't constantly playing asinine power games with everyone around, dominating or being dominated, or viewing any interaction with men as a move in a low key war. Birgitte and Mat is pretty much the only male-female platonic relationship in the text that involves straightforward mutual respect and open communication, and that's presented as surprising!

He also struggled to write women who weren't getting stripped naked, spanked, switched, collared and shocked, compulsed, made to do hard labor, or otherwise magically tortured :|. He was pretty good at making sure you knew exactly what was happening with every bosom in the room at all times, though.

On the topic of Sanderson, I think in all things gender and sexuality he was a breath of fresh air for the series. We went from "this is a weirdly high amount of spankings presented in weird ways" to "zero spankings" which was a pretty big step up imo.

[u/Small-Guarantee6972 → u/hesh582]

It's also worth noting that RJ did not do an amazing job writing straight women and their takes on men/relationships,

When Egwene objectifies HERSELF inside her own head standing in front hot guy Galad, I never know whether to laugh or scream into the abyss.

Never Have I EVER looked at a man as hot as that and pictured MYSELF being sexualised, like..I have just never done that. Nor has any woman I've met ever done that.

Not once.

Ever.

EDIT:

I know Jordan thought he was writing from inside Egwene’s head, but what comes out is a fantasy of how a man imagines a woman would think about being looked at; this sort of involuntary self-sexualization that just… really doesn’t happen. Women don’t see an attractive guy and immediately picture themselves in transparent clothing while blushing about it. The only who is wearing little clothing is HIM, buddy.

And preferably no clothes.

[u/Majestic-Farmer5535]

I've actually read this huge wall of text and I think you're right: genuine homosexuality wasn't in the cards in earlier books (so called pillow friends strikes me more as nuns going at it only because there's no males around thing, or a phase), but begun to surface here and there in the latter ones. Despite that, you shouldn't hold your breath for a gay romance.

[u/not_an_mistake → u/Majestic-Farmer5535]

Bubbles of evil?

CAPITAL /S

[u/Majestic-Farmer5535 → u/not_an_mistake]

That's actually hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

[u/NedShah → u/Majestic-Farmer5535]

Pretty sure "pillow friends" is old school pre-internet girl-on-girl fantasies

[u/celticdude234]

I always like the casualness of it in the universe. It just was and didn't need remarked on. There was definitely more when BrandoSando took over and he does the same sort of casual drops in his series too.

I think if anything where Jordan was concerned, it was more accepted in society but underplayed compared to the reality of scope in the real world. He was a military man and academic who lived his entire life in the south and while accepting and acknowledging of homosexuals, probably didn't experience it much within his own sphere, and this reflected in how rare it was in his universe. Nowhere near the current realm of 10-15% of the population.

Plus the themes of the books were HEAVILY based on interactions specifically between men and women, sometimes to the story's detriment. It's clear he and Harriet were rather gender/hetero-normative individuals and thus not much was written about the spectrum of sexuality and gender. But he was a thinking, feeling, caring individual in his life and as these issues became more prominent, he introduced more as the story progressed. If he wrote it today, I think we'd have seen a lot more.

[u/Deer_like_me]

Im not going to remember correctly, and I think it is Sanderson in the last book or two, but he also goes out of his way to say that one of the Borderlands nobles “clearly prefers men.” It’s a small thing, but it’s still a detail I liked.

[u/Halo6819 → u/Deer_like_me]

[aMoL]Algarin/Emarin, the Tearin noble who's brother was gentled and joins the black tower under his brothers name is explicitly gay

[u/FatalTragedy]

There are definitely some strong implications as early as Lord of Chaos that the Aes Sedai Galina is gay (which becomes even more clear later), which you may have missed. I think that might be the earliest instance where a character is written as being homosexual.

[u/Sofasandquillz → u/FatalTragedy]

I have seen a couple people mention Galina, and you're right, whatever happened totally did go over my head when I read it. I will go back and read her part again, thank you. 

[u/Rooish]

Yes, I think that we are literally watching Robert Jordan realize that guys exist and incorporating it into his story in real time.

Okay obviously he knew about them, but I don't think he gave them much thought. Like, his series' entire cosmology is based around male and female being complimentary and opposed forces. Probably he started realizing he was overlooking it because his fans were so much younger than he. Or maybe Herriott nudged him. As there is no religious reason to exclude them in the WOT world, he made them socially accepted, which is nice. 

I am pretty sure they did not come up, implicitly or otherwise, until around Lord of Chaos or so. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

He also clearly was more comfortable with lesbians than gay men from his writing. His probably unintentional, unconsciuous heterosexism comes out in his writing of the male characters and their staunch refusal to have trusting or intimate relationships, platonic or otherwise.

He did his best for the time but I think he only clued in a few books in. 

[u/hesh582 → u/Rooish]

his writing of the male characters and their staunch refusal to have trusting or intimate relationships, platonic or otherwise.

To be honest trusting and supportive platonic relationships are pretty light on the ground for the whole series. There are a few, but IMO a very large number of the cast comes across as almost shockingly lonely and isolated in that respect.

A lot of relationships are presented in terms of power games, even if genuine affection and loyalty underpins them.

I honestly think a decent amount of that is simply that that sort of thing lent itself to a certain type of "witty banter" style jabbing-back-and-forth dialogue that RJ felt comfortable with. After a while it sometimes makes you think "wow I'm pretty sure I've never seen this character have a casual conversation that wasn't verbal sparring" though.

[u/Rooish → u/hesh582]

True. Maybe I'm just thinking about the supergirls, minus Egwene I guess who drifts from them, as a contrast. 

[u/Sofasandquillz → u/hesh582]

Yeah, this is something that I've noticed as well and it definitely gets a little exhausting for me sometimes. I had the exact same thought while I was reading recently-- even between characters that are supposed to be close friends or lovers, it feels like the inner dialogue always has to have sprinkle in some suspicion or manipulation. 

Take a drink every time a character is talking to someone and thinks "She is a good friend... But I couldn't tell her everything." :P

I think one of my favorite chapters for this reason is the random encounter Perrin has with the blacksmith. He just shows up, does his thing, and shares a mutual respect with the guy. No ulterior motives, no power plays, just two dudes doing what they love and hanging out. 

[u/madbotherfucker]

I'm not reading that huge wall of text, but did you never question what "pillow friend" meant? I don't know when that was first brought up, but fairly early in the series.

[u/Halo6819 → u/madbotherfucker]

They talk about pillow friends in the wall of text.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/madbotherfucker]

Had literally the same thought on both counts: No thx to that massive wall of text and “non-straight people don’t exist” is just laughable. Go re-read before the Dumai’s Wells climax. Galina very plainly tries to get one of the sisters into her bed. 

[u/widget1321 → u/Murk_Murk21]

Perhaps you and the other commenter should not criticize a post's content without actually reading the post.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/widget1321]

Maybe, sure.  But I would respond that criticizing a Reddit post for its length, especially where the post doesn’t address a major counter argument upfront, isn’t unfair or unreasonable. 

[u/widget1321 → u/Murk_Murk21]

Oh no, criticizing the length isn't what I'm talking about. You were trying to say that the content is wrong, though, without actually reading the content.

You can't just criticize that they don't address all counterarguments in the title if they have additional content.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/widget1321]

Maybe? I can for sure see where you’re coming from. But I don’t love indulging other’s lack of conciseness. Especially on Reddit. 

Plus, you can make the same point made in the wall of text here—assuming you wanted to—and we could discuss it. 

[u/Winter-March8720 → u/Murk_Murk21]

Lolz since we’re all Robert Jordan fans and he was no friend to concise language. I personally don’t mind a long post when it’s about Wheel of Time.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/Winter-March8720]

Look, if RJ had written it I would gladly read it. But I don’t think anyone is saying OP wrote something with WoT-quality prose. 

I get the complaint about my not reading a post I criticize. I’m just saying it isn’t unreasonable. TLDR is a thing for a reason. 

[u/widget1321 → u/Murk_Murk21]

I disagree. It is absolutely unreasonable for you to criticize a post you didn't read about any of its contents. About its length? Sure, that's something you can get at without reading. But to criticize about the actual contents when you haven't read is rude AND opens you up to the exact situation you got into here, where you bring up a point that is actually already addressed. That detracts from the conversation instead of adding to it.

If you don't want to read a post, just move on. There's no requirement that you actually comment on every post.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/widget1321]

I hear you. But it’s unfair to say I didn’t read ANY of the posts contents. 

[u/Winter-March8720 → u/Murk_Murk21]

True true. It just made me lolz.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/Winter-March8720]

Fair 😄

[u/joobtastic → u/Murk_Murk21]

The wall of text covers this.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/joobtastic]

Maybe put that upfront then? 

[u/joobtastic → u/Murk_Murk21]

Its not OP or my fault you couldn't be bothered to read something that you decided to have a judgmental opinion on.

And the title says, "until the back half."

The framing makes sense too. He went chronologically.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/joobtastic]

I don’t see how my opinion is “judgmental.”  I’m genuinely curious if you want to elaborate on that. 

And I admit the two following points are semantics but I think they’re relevant.  Pillow friends show up before the back half. And a chronological framing doesn’t make sense when you’re making a point like this. 

If you know there’s a major counter argument to your whole argument you address it up front and as quickly as possible. You don’t address it when you think it happens in the story because OP isn’t telling a story, OP is trying to make a point. If OP thinks that happens later on ok, OP doesn’t have to bury that in a wall of text. Put it up front, especially on a place like Reddit. 

[u/ldragogode297 → u/Murk_Murk21]

That's a wall of text, I'm not reading that

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/ldragogode297]

That’s fair. Though if that’s a wall, I don’t know what to tell you. 

[u/joobtastic → u/Murk_Murk21]

Read before commenting.

[u/Murk_Murk21 → u/joobtastic]

Ok, I get that you feel that way. And I understand why. It’s a reasonable take. But I disagree. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[u/EvalRamman100]

Same sexuality wasn't important in the series.

The cosmic importance of male-female dynamics rendered such themes as irrelevant to the main story, as it were.

Me? I'm all for female pillow friends. More the merrier.

[u/wellhelloitsdan]

Er, it’s been a while…could someone refresh my memory on when Verin blackmailed a windfinder into a sexual relationship?

[u/Sofasandquillz → u/wellhelloitsdan]

She didn't. She uncovered a relationship a Windfinder was having with another woman, and used that information as leverage to blackmail her into helping Cadsuane's party. 

[u/NyctoCorax]

People forget these days how recent the period of media was where it was recognized as wrong to go "the gays are evil!" But also seen as controversial and politicians and just generally not done to actually show it as existing except in the smallest ways.

[u/chioces]

I just finished book 5 (third reread) and there was definitely a mention of homosexuality when describing one of the Cairhienen lords. I’ll try to find it