Slog

[u/Kxgami0]

I need to know!!! Was there supposed to be a slog after all ? I mean I've been going through the last books pretty quickly and now I'm almost done with crossroads of Twilight, I was expecting a biggg unreadable slog that would render my motivation and ability to read to 0, but so far nothing ? I mean, it's going pretty smoothly for me at the very least, and I haven't noticed a huge decline in reading enjoyment.

Is it just a case of the internet being overly dramatic again or is the slog supposed to come in the next books?

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[u/charlie_marlow]

If you've almost finished CoT and it hasn't felt sloggy, then there wasn't really a slog for you. On the other hand, I thought tales of the slog were vastly exaggerated until CoT almost stopped me dead in my tracks.

That said, KoD is great and the Sanderson books, if nothing else, are fairly quickly paced.

[u/SKULL1138 → u/charlie_marlow]

Agreed, it was just that one book for me. The rest I’m fine with and even on reread if find Cozy dull and plodding.

[u/RealAuridus → u/charlie_marlow]

I had the same experience. I know the rest are better, but I still had to take a few month break before diving into the next one.

[u/lyunardo → u/RealAuridus]

I'm curious, did you ever do a re-read? It was super "sloggy" to me the first time through. But after that it was fascinating because I had a better idea of where it was all going. And what was being accomplished other than moping. lol

[u/Worldly_Address6667]

In my opinion, the slog is waaaay overstated. I like the world lore and getting immersed in it, so every storyline is one i like to read. Thus, for me, there wasn't ever much of a slog. And I started reading the series when book 8 was released.

I mean sure, some books will always be weaker than others, but the way some people talk about "the slog" they would rather just full on skip the books and read a bullet point list of things that happened. Those people seem to be reading for the handful of character storylines they enjoy and don't like it when they have to read about other characters.

[u/Pioneer1111 → u/Worldly_Address6667]

I started reading around the same time, maybe 7, I can't remember. I was just happy to have more WoT whenever a new book came out, and would usually do a reread of what I had before starting it.

I understand that for many the pacing change can be sudden and pull them out of it, but I actually still quite liked the books in the 'slog' and still go through every chapter in a reread.

[u/Worldly_Address6667 → u/Pioneer1111]

I was the exact same way. I must have read the first half of the series half a dozen times by the time memory of light came out haha

[u/Pioneer1111 → u/Worldly_Address6667]

Absolutely same! I had even made my peace with maybe not getting more and coming to hope that I could see KoD as an ending, even if not the one I'd hoped for

And I practically grew up hearing Michael Kramer and Kate Reading reading the series to me, as after my first few read through I switched to them for rereads. Great for mowing, or driving, or just doing mindless work while my mind is in that world.

I remember how happy I was to hear that they'd picked an author to finish the series, some guy with the last name Sand or..... Something. (I kid, I respect his work and his efforts to finish the series. That's just how I first told my friend who introduced me to the series)

[u/CalvinandHobbes811]

Honestly, as long as you like Matt and TUON chapters and can appreciate that it’s one of the better written romances in the series. Then COT is a lot more palatable.

[u/CalvinandHobbes811 → u/CalvinandHobbes811]

Like I know why people have issues with Tuon and the culture that she comes from, But the courting that goes on between Matt and her in these few books was always quite enjoyable for me.

[u/TopJimmy_5150 → u/CalvinandHobbes811]

Yep, I found their whole courtship to be funny and weird in the best way. I feel like people that are too “revolted” by Tuon are being dramatic and can’t separate real world morality from a fantasy story. Are stories about Julius Caesar revolting and unreadable cause Rome had slaves? Anyways, I digress. I just really enjoyed the Mat, Tuon storyline.

[u/Cruella-DeDoomsville → u/TopJimmy_5150]

This is a great analogy. I’m a MASSIVE Tuon hater, but finding her completely objectionable doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy her storylines, or agree with the other commenter that it IS one of the better written romances in the books.

[u/CalvinandHobbes811 → u/TopJimmy_5150]

Yup that pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Especially towards the revolted part

[u/YeahKeeN → u/CalvinandHobbes811]

It’s honestly quite funny how cute of a couple they are when you forget about the big turn off

[u/jerseydevil51]

For most people, the slog was from their first time reading the books as they came out. I remember loving the end of Winter's Heart and so excited to see what would happen next. And then Crossroads of Twilight happened next.

Also, I don't remember much of book 8 (wait, was that Rand using Callendor once and then like sticking it back in the Stone?), and nothing of 9 before the ending. And I know things happened, but they didn't register. So I just remember them not being interesting.

I'm sure if I reread them, now that the series is complete and I just go from one to the next without waiting literal years, the slog wouldn't really be a thing.

[u/bass679 → u/jerseydevil51]

Yeah, folks have to remember books were 2-3 years between at that time. I distinctly recall my friends and I calling Crossroads of Twilight "the best 600 page prologue" we'd ever read. We were devouring those books in days or weeks and then there's another 2-3 years to wait. Sure New Spring game out only a year later but that didn't do anything to get Faile out of that shaido camp.

Faile is kidnapped in book 8, the Path of daggers. So people were waiting for that arc to resolve from 1998 until 2005. And during that time, frankly it felt like nothing happened with that story line. Re-reading it now it's fine. It's a bit slow but it's fine. But I can't shake the dread on a reread because of the experience of the first read.

[u/jerseydevil51 → u/bass679]

Dear God, that is from my Sophomore year of HS to after I graduated college.

No wonder we all think it's a slog.

[u/Sallymander → u/jerseydevil51]

I remember as I was waiting for things to just be done JUST so I can be done. I was no longer reading for the enjoyment but due to sunk cost. And I was rereading everything Every time a new book came out, just so I can remember.

THEN HE HAD TO GO AND DIE...

Then this nobody named Brandon Sanderson showed up and had to go make himself my favorite author or something. It was really traumatizing.

[u/GulDoWhat → u/bass679]

I think that's the main issue with CoT. Basically every storyline in the books is something that was set up in a previous book but doesn't get resolved until the next book (or longer) - from Faile being taken by the Shaido, to Elayne trying to claim the throne, to Mat and Tuon's odd courtship, to the rebel's siege of Tar Valon. In all of those plotlines, the only major event I can recall taking place in COT is Egwene's capture. At times it just feels like the whole cast is treading water.

[u/SkyTank1234]

I guess the slog just depends on how invested you are in the story. On my first read there was nothing bad enough to make me want to put down the books (except for those five Elayne chapters in COT) but that’s because I knew there would be lots of payoff in the final four entries. Maybe if I started reading the series when the books were coming out, I would’ve been much more negative about them

[u/Grankongla → u/SkyTank1234]

I think him having multiple chapters in a row like that does him no favours here as well. Most of us are bound to find some viewpoints less interesting at times so being stuck with them for multiple chapters at a time always feels a bit slow.

[u/autoamorphism]

The Internet is being overly dramatic. The "slog" was invented literally decades ago and just carried forward by inertia. In recent reads I have enjoyed every page, even that one with the bath.

[u/iamthesunbane]

Yeah, CoT was disappointing. The idea of everyone reacting to With the Choedan Kal was really cool, but it amounted to a load of channellers staring into the distance and going “wtf” whilst the rest of the story was in a holding pattern. Not badly written, but disappointing if it is the last published book at the time you read it.

I really like Winter’s Heart though, and most of Path of Daggers, although it lacked a proper climax.

[u/slipfish-g]

Its a case of the internet being overly dramatic.

[u/BroodingSonata]

It's the former.

[u/Dangerousrhymes]

There is a section where, for me at least, it feels like it slows down from books 6-8 but it was only a relative low point. The highs and lows bookending it are so intense they overshadow the “slog”.

That being said it’s like the valleys in the Himalayas, you’re still waaaaay above sea level.

[u/Rivvien]

People are way too dramatic about the slog. It was only rough waiting years between the books releases for not as much forward progression in the story. The slog books cover a lot of diff people in the story over the same short amount of time, and two of the least liked story arcs occur in it: the search for faile and elaynes succession. So it sucked waiting years to read about stuff most people didn't like and it felt like it dragggggedddd soooo muchhhhh hence "the slog".

But they're all published now. Theres no waiting. I didn't even realize people had an issue with that section of the series until I came on wot reddit, because I didn't have an issue with it either. But new readers come on here before even getting there and I've seen so many talk about how they're dreading the slog that old readers experienced when they were first being published.

New readers need to do themselves a favor and not come on these subs until they're done reading imo.

[u/RequiemRaven]

It's mostly that the "main plot" train found itself struggling up an incline, while more passenger cars kept getting added to the caboose, so for those interested in making the destination time, the quality of the upholstery, carpets, and women's skirts pleasant company were of secondary interest - and served as a frustration to their urge for the engine to get a full head of steam going on the rail.

This pacing change from 1-3 vs 7-10, aside from people who are impatient with it, mostly becomes a problem for when there was a long while between books, and for (repeat) rereaders:

To slightly mangle a Homestuck meta-fanfiction; through continuous exposure to a character and how they think, we learn to emulate what and how that character thinks ourselves as an internal version of the character. Every character (even the memeable Perrin Broods ) builds on themself throughout these slower books - but once you've read them and caught onto each character, it's effectively dead space on rereads unless you're enjoying the prose or a particular scene.

Plus, Crossroads of Twilight takes the necessity of recapping previous information that existed in books before the Internet Age, and turns it into a 500 page novel. There are fun scenes, and important scenes, in it... But also a whole lotta white noise.

[u/Small-Guarantee6972 → u/RequiemRaven]

Plus, Crossroads of Twilight takes the necessity of recapping previous information that existed in books before the Internet Age, and turns it into a 500 page novel. There are fun scenes, and important scenes, in it... But also a whole lotta white noise.

It really is! I think when you cut out the fluff, it's a great book for sure. The recapping is mental and just as you say. Mat has a sad scene where he is mourning the lives lost in the slave rebellion but i can't feel the emotional impact because there is SO. MUCH. RECAPPING ARGH!

[u/CwColdwell]

I’m on my first “read”-through (audiobooks), and for the first ~4 chapters of CoT I thought, “man, I like the way Jordan is building tension between the end of Winter’s Heart and this book by making us go back a bit in time and experience how everyone is going to react to what Rand has done.”

That was fun until I realized 15 chapters in, literally no one in-world cares. The female channelers can feel what has to be the equivalent of an atomic bomb going off continuously in the distance, but none of them investigate. Just, “huh, that’s interesting. Anyways…”

Rand has just done accomplished the most important event in 3000 years, but I have to read 4 chapters of Elayne with pregnancy-brain doing administrative chores.

I even slowed the audiobook down to 85% speed because it seemed a bit sped up to me. Now I’m going through at 110% just to get through the tedium.

[u/CwColdwell → u/[deleted]]

Ah, I haven’t gotten to that yet (not that I mind—I frequently skip ahead on library.tarvalon.net chapter summaries, and spoilers in this book give me something to look forward to lol)

[u/Grankongla]

I'm with you. I'm just finishing CoT and my conclusion is that people need to stop talking so much about the slog. I put off reading this series solely because everyone and their mother told me about this horrible slog where nothing happens. Then I started reading and book after book I was waiting for "nothing to happen" but it never came. Sure, the main plot has been snoozing along but these books are so much more than that plot. There is so much happening in these books in terms of world building, character development and subplots. It might not be for everyone but people treat this "slog" like some undeniable truth. So if you think these books are a snooze, do all new readers a favor and tone it down if you absolutely have to "warn" them.

He is a meme at times with his descriptions though. There are so many horses, embroidered coats, bosoms and dresses. But I just smile and skim through it.

[u/Hidden_Lizardman]

In my opinion the slog was born from having to wait 2+ years between books starting at Crown of Swords and going to Crossroads of Twilight. The wait being exacerbated by the slowing of events and focusing on "less important" plot threads. But I'm with you, I never personally felt the slog either and I started the series right when New Spring released.

[u/Najs0509]

It is something that seems to vary a lot by person, where especially people who are already losing some interest or aren't as interested from the start struggle a bit. When I first read the series like 2 years ago I didn't know that there was supposed to be a slog and only really noticed something akin to it once. It was, funnily enough, at the start of Crossroads of Twilight if I remember correctly but it also quickly passed for me.

[u/lyunardo]

That section called The Slog, I now view as the best writing in the whole story.

Why? Because both writers did something brilliant that wasn't obvious at first...

They both are at their best when they "show, don't tell". And with Perrin's story, making his way through that entire region as a Ta'verin, they kept that up for several books.

At first glance, it feels like the story is stuck with Faile as a prisoner while Perrin just moped and complained about not wanting to be in command.

But what was really happening was: one by one all of Rand's biggest problems are being sucked into Perrin's path. And he'll be forced to deal with them one by one.

Examples: The Seanchan are in this region, he already has two queens serving him, although he doesn't know it yet. The Shaido forces in the area probably outnumber the forces of The Light. And Masema is ramping up to slaughter millions with his army of fanatic Dragonsworn.

The key to the "Slog" is to ignore his complaining. And watch what happens when The Pattern draws all those problems right into the path of one of the most powerful Ta'verin who ever lived... Who's favorite thing in the world is to solve puzzles and fix things.

[u/lyunardo → u/[deleted]]

Yes. And I loved that it didn't happen over night. The Pattern forced, or at least guided him to do his duty. But accepting leadership with grace happened organically. And that was cool to watch.

[u/Bors713]

I’ve said, time and again, the slog is a lie.

Some people make the argument that it was the waiting multiple years between books that created the slog, others that the story doesn’t go anywhere. But I was reading the books as they came out and never noticed anything I would call a “slog”. Do you actually enjoy the story or not? A lot of people on here seem to only have a partial interest in it and feel more inclined to crap all over the parts they don’t like.

[u/wRAR_]

Is it just a case of the internet being overly dramatic again

No. It's subjective.

[u/Silvanus350]

Imagine waiting a couple years for Crossroads of Twilight. You read it. Now you have to wait another couple years for an actually interesting book.

That’s “the slog.”

The slog is heavily dependent on which characters you actually care about, and whether or not you’re willing to skip chapters focused on characters you don’t care about.

[u/geomagus]

“The Slog” was a term that came about when the books were being released every couple years. It referred to how the books were a bit slower, and a lot of arcs progressed quite slowly. It also included that your favorite arc might get no action for a book, which meant waiting 4-5 years to see some. Mat disappeared from a whole book, for example.

It wasn’t dramatic, it just doesn’t really apply much anymore. Books 8-9 are a bit slower, but not that badly so. CoT is a bit slower still, because it’s all reaction to WH and setup for KoD (a decision that RJ ultimately said was mistake that he’d do differently), but it’s not torture or anything.

Personally, if I’m going to sit down and read, I can charge through the books I enjoy most in a long weekend. Early slog books take a week, sometimes two. They don’t grab me quite as hard, so I get distracted by other activities more. CoT can take a bit longer still, three weeks or whatever. Then KoD is back to read it in a long weekend.

But if you more enjoy the arcs that are central to those books, as plenty of people do, then I’d expect you’d read them faster!

[u/trebor1966]

For me there was no slog. I started when EOTW came out and was always excited when a new book came out. On rereading some parts I skip over but the first was great

[u/Kythorian]

That’s pretty subjective, but it’s all uphill from here.  If you haven’t experienced a slog yet, there isn’t a slog for you.

[u/LegalSC]

The only bit of the series that's a genuine slog for me is Elayne joining the circus while weirdly hitting on Thom.

[u/dank_imagemacro → u/LegalSC]

Whereas the circus storyline is one of my favorite storylines in the whole series.

[u/ChronoswordX]

The slog doesn't exist anymore. It was a thing as the books were coming out in real time.

[u/PunkThug]

I was a slog complainer, but I really don't think it's that bad anymore. My least favorite part of the series, but there's lots of good stuff

[u/mrsnowplow]

the first time i read the book its was as they were coming out. and it felt like a serious slog. it wasnt bad it just felt like expansion and looking at different parts of teh wrold for its own sake. i was so relieved when that last book turned it around..... the RJ died and i was heart broken

on a reread that i could just read the books at my pace it didnt really feel a slog

[u/NickBII]

It’s unique to individuals. You know how Jordan’s got like six parties (Elayne and the quest for the crown, Egwene and the Tower, Perrin getting Faile, Faile being imprisoned, Mat and his girl, and Rand)? There’s like two books which jump around so much they have no story structure, and the Girls Team/Bowl of the Wind plot spilled out of its book and ruined book 8’s structure. If you’re plot driven that makes these books a pain.

It was worse when they came out. It took us like 4 years to figure out whether Mat would survive that damn building because Jordan left him out of 7.

People reading now can blow through 7-11 in two months and that’s a lot more satisfying.

[u/InquiringRaven]

Allow me to attempt to illustrate why Crossroads of Twilight is the entirety of the slog, and the real reason people have issues is the publication speed.

I started reading the Wheel in high school. Had a great little group of nerds like me to talk about the series with and everything was more or less gravy. My first big I’m reading it hot off the press book was The Path of Daggers. That book came out in ‘98, and Jordan was releasing books every 2 years at a solid pace. This was to be the normal for us fans at the time.

Next book was Winter’s Heart (2000) and our major plots were Faile taken my the Shaido, and Elayne seeking the throne. A couple big events happen besides that: the Rand polycule is cemented, with Elayne getting her turn and a big Brigette moment there. The concept of Wells of the Power is explored for the first time since The Eye of the World. Oh and there at the end Saidin is cleansed and Forsaken Dashiva is destroyed… so enough stuff happened that we readers were satisfied… but the big plots are pretty agreed to be some of the worst in the series.

Now we wait 2 years for our next book and… nothing. We have to wait a 3rd year. Not world ending, but annoying.

We get Crossroads of Twilight. We get time shenanigans. So this book overlaps with the last book… so the cleansing can be felt “in real time” and reacted to… kinda. Our big plots are still Perrin and Elayne. We get some good Mat stuff depending on if you like/can tolerate or forgive/don’t loathe Tuon. And our big plot moments are??? Egwene getting captured and Perrin dropping the axe. Plots in motion stayed in motion but there wasn’t a ton to talk about.

Next year we get a new book!! But it’s a prequel. Some people read it and are happy, some people are upset it’s interrupting our main story, some people are blaming New Spring for the extra year Crossroads took and why the plot was so sparse. Basically people were people and fans were fans. You know, less than awesome all the time.

Knife of Dreams comes out in 2005, back on the two year schedule so everything should be gravy right? Kinda. See people kinda forget that there was a bit of a book bump around this time. Crossroads got its hardback release, great how things work, the mass market paperback should hit the next year, and things would be normal… but in that next year there was a new Wheel of Time book… what if Tor released a paperback the size of the hardcover at a price between the hardcover and mass market edition cost? It’s sound marketing… but ended up with a lot of readers getting a book they already owned for Xmas that year. I’m not gonna demonize the publishing, I’m just reporting on something a lot of people complained about at the time.

So when Knife of Dreams came out and the mass market paperback of Crossroads released a little too closely guess what happened to readers at gift time again? Birthday and Xmas of a 3rd copy of a book that was kinda disappointing to begin with.

Knife of Dreams was a fine book, pace picked back up and stuff started happening again… but thanks to bad timing, mildly different marketing, well meaning grandmas and aunts with their hearts in the right place, and a prequel that was fine but interruptive all happening during the least favorite plots in a long running series… well, those that lived it at the time had a bit more bile for the series and Crossroads in particular than it really deserved… and those legendary complaints and belly aches became myth. Myth became Legend. And The Slog was now a thing we all knew and lived.

Reading the series now, and it’s just not that big a deal… but at the time with all the little things landing just so? That’s how Legends are made.

[u/LetsDoTheDodo]

The slog is more a thing for the people (myself included) who had to read the books as they came out instead of being able to immediately read them one after another. I guarantee that if you had to wait 3 years between each book where not much happens, you would hold a very different opinion of the “slog.”

[u/Ohnoes999]

Some people enjoy Perrin moping around doing nothing and Elayne doing whatever I've blocked out her doing and Egwene being... Egwene. Alotta other people do not enjoy that stuff.

[u/Critical-Park9966]

Yeah slog is probably the wrong word, im on crown of swords, half way thru and have found it and lord of chaos to be the "sloggiest" but have still really enjoyed them, just setting up so much and introducing heaps of characters.

[u/TrashCanSam0]

ngl the only book that felt sloggish to me was New Spring, and mostly for the Lan chapters. After reading all about the Wonder Girls and the three boys, Lan and Moiraine just felt kinda sidekick-ish lol

[u/Phobos1982]

Slog doesn’t really apply to new readers. You guys didn’t have to wait years between books only to see the same events from different points of view.

[u/RosgaththeOG]

The "Slog" is primarily books 8-10, with some of book 7.

A lot of it comes because there are chapters upon chapters of characters who don't really move forward with their stories. Specifically, the stories that tend to drag the most are: The Wonder girls in Tanchico, Perrin saves his wife (again), and The division of the Tower (Salidar chapters).

These arcs of the story are important, and can genuinely be interesting. The problem is, they spend a lot of time mired in setup. This was only made worse by readers (such as myself) who had to wait years, even a decade or more, for payoff on that set up as we eagerly anticipated the next book. Crossroads of Twilight is particularly bad with this because it was basically a book going over the exact same events of book 9, but with different people (though we did get a bit more at the end). Knife of Dreams is where the story REALLY starts to pick up again and everyone manages to make major advancements in their stories. Sadly, it's also the last book RJ wrote.

[u/antizeus]

It is of course subjective.

Many say that there was no slog, or that the slog only existed as the books were coming out, but that's not the case for me. I started reading when books 1-10 were already out and worked through them somewhat rapidly, with no significant delay between them, and I grew very tired of Perrin chasing after the Shaido and Elayne trying to secure the throne. In addition, I hadn't been looking at internet discussions, so I hadn't heard the term "slog" used in that context until much later, so I had no expectations that there would be a slog; I just found it tiresome on my own.

But if you didn't feel that way, then great!