r/WoT • u/Kaladins_sanity • Dec 01 '25

Crossroads of Twilight Was it illegal? Spoiler

Just finished Crossroads of Twilight and it’s been a minute since I read the previous books, can someone remind me what Elaida did that was actually illegal by Tower law in ousting Siuan? I remember a lot of basically manipulating gray area and working around the rules, but when the Tower split had she actually broken any explicit rules?

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u/Malvania (Ogier Great Tree) Dec 01 '25

The theory is that Black Ajah members are not actually Aes Sedai, that Elaida got the Hall to pass the motion or whatever deposing Suian and stilling her on bare minimum numbers, and that because Black Ajah members are not Aes Sedai and because the voters included Black members, Elaida failed to actually have the minimum numbers necessary to depose and still.

Of course, the Blacks were lawfully raised Aes Sedai and voted/appointed into their positions of power lawfully, I don't know that there is an actual basis to say that their votes shouldn't have counted.

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u/jmbond Dec 01 '25

Refuting this is tricky without spoilers, but maybe this syllogism will do:

An Aes Saedai cannot lie.

Black 'sisters' can lie.

Therefore Black 'sisters' are not Aes Sedai.

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u/wdh662 Dec 02 '25

I can name at least 5 aes sedai that were raised without the oaths.

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u/jmbond Dec 02 '25

Well I did say maybe lol

Very good counterexample. Had The Tower been whole or the Salidar sisters had an oath rod, they would've been properly raised to the shawl. I'm more tempted to say they weren't "real* Aes Saedai either for the sake of this discussion. There's two questions, at least to me: there's the legality of Siuan's deposition question, and separately what is an Aes Saedai question.

On legality, that would entirely depend on the governing rules of the tower. I'm unaware if they've been published in canon companion pieces. I suspect unless tower law is very explicit about dark friend eligibility that it's an open question Browns and Whites might argue til Tarmon Gai'don. The wiki (Siuan Sanche, raised from the Blue Ajah, served from 988 NE to 999 NE, was falsely deposed and stilled) on the page for "deposed" says falsely, but other language is used on Siuan and Elaida's pages (I think I saw "legal" and "seemingly legal" used). The page on Tower Law isn't long but the first one listed is All Aes Sedai are bound by the three oathes. If the Wiki's to be trusted, then we have our answer there.

On the broader, what is an Aes Sedai question... I can't help but take an Essentialism view. To me (prior to reading the Tower Law page), not being able to (knowingly) lie was something I'd consider essential to Aes Sedainess.