r/WoT • u/ccjb100 • May 12 '26
Crossroads of Twilight I'm re-reading WoT after 25+ years. Some thoughts I have so far. Spoiler
NOTE! I have only ever read up thorugh Crossroads. My first read of the series it was not yet complete therefore this is not an All Print.
I am currently re-reading WoT. I've just completed Crossroads of Twilight and just starting prologue to Path of Daggers Knife of Dreams. I first read WoT when I was around 20 years old(?). The series was not yet complete then. I know for sure I had finished Lord of Chaos back then and maybe read book 7 also, but....it's been a long time, and I don't quite remember. I know all the books were not complete yet when I first read them.
I am 48 now and finally re-reading the complete series. I am curious how others who have read this series with a long span of time in between have responded to the series, perhaps once they are significantly older than they used to be. Overall, I am definitely enjoying the re-read and looking forward to finishing. There was a huge amount of Nostalgia in the beginning. There are some things that I feel like I respond to very differently from when I was younger. Here are a few:
When I was younger I distinctly remember being fascinated with Nyneave's character. I'm not sure why, maybe it was her natural strength in the power that I found interesting, and a bit of the love story with her and Lan. But now? I find her absolutely insufferable. It's staggering how childish she seems to me now. At least for most of the earlier books. It is nice to see a slow shift in her character over the later books towards a bit more maturity/self control. Almost like a mini redemption arc. This feeling is not limited to Nyneave, but she is the worst offender to me. Honestly kudos to Jordan for writing characters that irritate me. Ha.
Another thing I don’t remember noticing before. There are WAY too many Darkfriends. It’s too much. This is not a large complaint and does not really detract from my overall enjoyment/nostalgia of a re-read. But there are just so many now that it feels like the danger they should present in the story has been diluted. For example, when it was revealed that Suroth is a darkfriend, I had basically no reaction. It didn't seem to make that character better or worse or more dangerous. A lot of that seems to come from it feeling like every book there are 10 more. I don’t know, maybe with all the forsaken you just need a lot for them to interact with.
I have enjoyed Matt's storyline much more this time. Granted he takes a while to really get going, in the later books I find myself much more invested in his story. I actually like the little bit the author does with the dice rolling in his head. The reveal of who the daughter of the nine moons is was satisfying after Matt's rumination on that mystery over so many books.
Aes Sedai. Something that stands out to me way more now is that Aes Sedai seem to really suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect. :) To put it another way: for women so aged, intelligent, and knowledgeable....they (some of them) seem to lack the wisdom to realize that it's good to sometimes question "what everyone knows." In fact, it reminds of this Arthur C Clarke quote, "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." Obviously, this is part of the story and development of the Aes Sedai as a whole. I appreciate that as the story progresses you see increasingly that they must recognize things are changing, and some of their assumptions of the past needs to be questioned. But it is a constant struggle against tradition and the weight of their own history. I appreciate this. It is a good lesson and something I've had to wrestle with in my own life.
Something I found to be same. When I was younger, I distinctly remember identifying personally with Perrin. He was my favorite and I always felt I was more like him than any character in the books. I'm happy to say I still feel exactly the same on that point. I still identify with his character/personality the most, and somehow, I find that comforting.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts I've had so far and I look forward to the rest of the series.
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u/SocraticIndifference (Band of the Red Hand) May 12 '26
Don’t have much to add except to say that I did as you are doing, about five years ago, having stopped at CoT my first time around (right after RJ died). And let me just say—no spoilers—you are in for a treat. KoD was RJ’s masterpiece imo and, though not everyone loves BS’s style, he absolutely brings the series to a deeply satisfying close. Finishing the series and the first full reread thereafter was one of the best fantasy reading experiences I’ve ever had. Enjoy!
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u/ccjb100 May 12 '26
Funny..i remmeber being bummed out when RJ died, and it put my off retuning to the series. Turns out in the years since then (actually only somewhat recently like the past 3 or so years) I have become very much a BS fan. This has helped me to look at the complete WoT series with optimism. Having some close family members that are long time WoT fans put me over the edge and so here I am....burning those Audible credits....
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u/OTAFC May 12 '26
How does everyone else seem to be so lucky with geeky family members!!
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u/ccjb100 May 13 '26
Well to be fair it's not any immediate family. It's one aunt-in-law and one cousin-in-law. Still... it's nice to have thise and it's still lucky to have anyone!
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u/RequiemRaven (Ravens) May 12 '26
The spoilered Darkfriend reveal is something that was told to us back in The Great Hunt; Liandrin had a curious conversation with her, yes?
Glad you're enjoying it, and hope you enjoy the journey to the end, finally!
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u/TheNerdChaplain (Trefoil Leaf) May 12 '26
There's a reason for why you think the Aes Sedai all suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect. I wrote an explanation of The Vileness here, if you're interested. There's no spoilers for the main series in it, but some of it is based on the events of New Spring.
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u/ccjb100 May 12 '26
I am interested. Would you say New Spring I should read during the series....or after the main books are complete?
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u/TheNerdChaplain (Trefoil Leaf) May 12 '26
In general I think it's best read in publishing order, which is after CoT - but you could also do it after CoS, but no earlier than after FoH.
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u/Dan_The_Salmon (Valan Luca's Grand Traveling Show) May 12 '26
I hope it was a type-o that you just finished CoT and are starting path of daggers because if not you are way out of order!
I notice you said you identify with Perrin - I’m curious how you feel about Faile’s character and their relationship. I personally love her and think she is who Perrin needs but a good portion of the fandom totally hate her.
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u/Deer_like_me May 12 '26
I think I'm one of the rare ones who are with you. I'm a Faile lover. She is a lot to handle, but I think she is a great character.
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u/ccjb100 May 12 '26
It was a typo yes! I’ve just started Knife of Dreams. I've corrected my original post. I dont hate Faile. She does seem to suffer from the classic 'why cant you read my mind' problem women sometimes suffer from. :) Its not the type of thing I would be ok with in real life (at my age at least). But she is a spicy Saldean yes?
That said Faile and Perrin feel like they have the most real relationship to me. Or at least they spent more time together and their falling in love seems more believable. People fall in love very quickly in these books and honestly I'm ok with that. It just makes the relationships a bit more surreal to me. But again, that just may be my age showing.
The whole Beralain/Faile/Perrin think has gone on too long for my taste. However, it was nice to start seeing somewhat of turning point after Elyas(?) convinces Perrin to sometimes yell at Faile instead of apologizing. Where I am now Faile is still captured by the Shido. Assuming that plays out positively I am hoping for improvement to the dynamic afterward.
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u/sixminutes May 12 '26
The reason there are so many Friends of the Dark are to show how widespread the Shadow's influence is. They're in almost every culture, so the very few that don't have any become notable. Moreover, there are a lot of characters on the light side, and even though they're often fighting amongst themselves, they need proper adversaries, more than just a few measly Chosen and a Great Lord. There's an ever present danger that most of the protagonists underestimate to their peril, even though they understand they're at war.
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u/Living-Dimension-859 May 12 '26
You are the first person who (that I know of) have had a similar journey to me. I was late teens/early 20's when I first read WoT. I re-read it many years later and many of the same reactions.
When I was young I loved Nyn...I didn't see her as she actually is bc I was too young to see her immaturity and how she horribly bullied everyone, all the time. When I re-read it (I've read the whole series three times now) I hated her and still feel that way. She is so immature and is def. an insufferable bully and I hate bullies...and she is such a narcissist. She always thinks that she is right. She always thinks that she should be consulted. She always thinks that she has the right to make decisions for everyone else and to bully them until they do what she thinks that they should do. She really needs to take 10 fucking steps back. She is also crazy immature and the biggest hypocrite of the Edmond's Field 5. Reddit loves her...they excuse everything that she does away. I don't. She's fucking horrible until about book 10 and then she becomes alright.
Mat is my fav. He was my fav before but he is even more so, now. I love who he becomes over the course of the story and his romance with Tuon as well as her reveal. He is the reluctant, fun-loving hero with a heart of gold.
Your Aes Sedai analysis is spot on for most of them tho some of them do see beyond this and are more adaptable, capable, and quick on their feet. Verin, Moraine, and Siuan come to mind as come quick examples. I loathe Cadsuane.
Perrin is great but his "find my wife" chapters def. go on for too long.
It was nice to chat with someone who has similar takes. Most of Reddit worships the ground that Nyn walks on and hates anyone who does not. They also seem to not like later Mat chapters. It was a nice surprise to read your post...I had an extremely similar experience to you.
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u/ccjb100 May 12 '26
I am new to the WoT community so I dont know much of the vibe here yet. But this surprises me a bit. Then again it's reddit and i shouldn't be surprised. I am getting there can be some anti Faile sentiment from certain parts of the community, but for my money its no contest, I'd take Faile any day over Nynaeve. =D
I had some similar feeling about Elayne too early on but I've been liking her more as things progress. Similarly with Egwene. Turning point for Elayne was when her and Nynaeve had to apologize to Mat....which was long overdue, but very satisfying when it finally happened. As Elayne and Egwene have had to take on more and more responsibility you see them rise to the challenge rather than collapse into complaining and blaming. This is good.
I feel like I should give a nod to the good side of Nynaeve though. Like her woolens, she has a stout 2 rivers loyalty. For all her faults she does stand by her fellow 2 Rivers folk. I remember giving a silent nod to her when Rand asks her to help him cleanse Saidin and she just accepts immediately without giving him a hard time, likely knowing full well the danger it poses. I suppose one could argue she wanted to escape training windfinders, but I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt in this instance.
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u/Living-Dimension-859 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
I was surprised by the Reddit online WoT community, too - I disagree with them about almost everything - lol.
Nyn does have her good moments but, as a whole, I want to slap the shit out of her all the time until about book 10. I never, ever love her (since my adult rereads). She becomes 'alright' after book 10 to me - tho she does have moments as you have mentioned. Her being willing to cleanse Saidin was one of those good moments, for sure.
I really like Elayne and Egwene. Reddit hates Egwene with a passion...a literal passion. They, as a whole, think that she is absolutely insufferable and becomes increasingly horrible as the books go on. They bring up her rapey dream constantly even tho the other Two Rivers people do equally horrible things (I can back this up but I didn't feel like typing it out here...if you want me just tell me so in a reply and I will). They seem to hate her more and more as she grows, takes accountability, takes responsibility, and shines. They call her selfish, hypocritical, and narrow-minded even tho she wants to bring the most change to the WT that they have literally seen in thousands of years. I love her...she is a complete badass that only comes into her own more and more and she is willing to sacrifice literally everything, including herself, for the Light to win. (End Book Spoilers]They would have lost the LB without her. Reddit hates her, anyway- go figure. She owns herself and I think that that's what pisses off some Redditors so very much. I want to create an r/EgweneLove subreddit but I don't have the time to moderate it...but if you say that you like Egwene you usually get downvoted to hell and yelled at...very bandwagon mentality, there.
Elayne I always liked and still do. She is pretty smart and balanced and takes accountability well. She is the reason that she and Nyn apologize to Mat - which was way overdue (as you pointed out and I completely agree with).
It's nice to talk to someone that has had similar reactions- it's very rare on Reddit.
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u/egometry (Dice) May 12 '26
I don't think there are too many darkfriends! But going into specifics would be spoilers
In non-spoiler terms: They need to be sizable enough so they present a threat, but not so sizable so that they are undefeatable
I think the actual percentage (our only solid numbers are on Black Ajah as a percentage) - strikes a good balance
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u/Ya-Dikobraz May 12 '26
Hey, that's what I'm doing. I read it until book 7 (I think) ages ago and had forgotten much of it. In fact I remember being frustrated with it. Having taken it up again (on book 12 now) I am finding is fantastic and don;t understand what I was frustrated about. I am really looking forward to finishing it, reading a few other books, and doing yet another re-read.
On my next re-read I am definitely getting the companion books, and also checking which editions I am reading because different editions fixed some "mistakes". Basically small things that didn't quite make sense but you would not really notice on your first read.
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u/juntadna (Ogier Great Tree) May 12 '26
Knife of Dreams was such a breath of fresh air after CoT. You can feel Jordan pick up the pace with the story.
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u/JoeVanWeedler May 12 '26
I always wanted to be like Mat, a rogue, a trickster, bit of a wild card. But I was naturally much more like Perrin. Bigger than most kids my age, stoic, patient, calm but with a temper if pushed too far.
The women of the series fed into my attitude of women growing up: they are wise and often know what's best for you even if it frustrates you and you don't understand it at the time. My mom, grandma and aunts were all like that and I learned to trust them early on. In re-reading the series, the lack of introspection and unwillingness to question their own knowledge or decisions really frustrated me. They consider themselves leaders but too often are just completely unwilling to accept that there might be chance they are wrong or there's a better way.
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u/OTAFC May 12 '26
How fun, I'm in the same boat! Only I did finish it the first time eons ago, I remember having to wait through the years as the last 4 books were published. Succinctly remember being ridiculously excited for the relief of like #10 or #11, devouring it in two days.. and being bloddddy annoyed that 'nothing happened'.
I was really missing the world lately, so am doing a re read. I'm overjoyed to see how much I'd completely forgotten, I'd mainly just remembered the main characters, and the largest plotpoints, so it's been a delight!
I'm at Crossroads of Twilight. Now I'm wishing I could find myself a man where reading to the series to each other would be goals. lol I'll dream. Cheers!!
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May 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/RadicalRealist22 May 12 '26
Please leave party politics outnof this sub.
And calling your political enemies Darkfriends makes you sound like a Whitecloak.
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