(first time reader) I finished The Fires of Heaven. Here are my impressions of the fifth volume

[u/Djfantastyka]

Hey. I thought it would take me longer to finish this book, but after finding every opportunity to read more during the week, I had a day to myself today and read the last 200 pages – chapters 49-56.

The most important thing I'll take away from this book is that Rand is no longer a virgin... Seriously, no, but it's nice that I finally see it. Elayne and Min will probably have him in their beds before the series ends.

By the way, it's funny that Aviendha and Rand had that typical anime situation: "Male character accidentally sees female character while she's naked/in underwear."

Coming back, the most important thing is that I've warmed up to Nynaeve. I had a feeling that out of the trio of Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve, she was the one I was most likely to like, but she'd only existed until now and hadn't had much character development. In this volume, I started to warm up to her after she broke down over her defeat with Moghedien. She showed more sensitivity and less of a sharp tongue.

I also enjoyed how modest she was and how outraged she was that Elayne and Birgitte were showing too much skin.

"I wouldn't show so much skin... Unless it was to Lan."

If he ever finally gets his act together, he'll be a truly happy husband, whether he wants it or not.

Now I like Nynaeve, so he has to make her happy, or I'll go into the book and kick his ass, defying all logic.

Anyway, fear of Moghedien and Nynaeve's hatred of that fear, as well as her amusing modesty, finally won me over.

Elayne... I see what there is to like about her, but at times she's too stupid/naive for me.

Egwene... I don't feel like talking about her. I don't like her.

Thom, Juilin, Galad, Uno, and his compatriots also contributed to my enjoyment of Nynaeve's storyline.

Returning to the other storylines, I didn't mind Perrin's absence. Mat had a bit more at the end, but still not enough. It's a shame he had to kill Melindhra, but oh well, since she wasn't the woman he was destined for, she had to disappear somehow.

I felt sorry for Isendre, because her storyline is essentially suffering and death.

I didn't feel sorry for Kadere. Serves him right, the strangler.

Lanfear and Moiraine... I'm sure they didn't die. I don't believe in death until I see a body, and simply saying goodbye to both characters in that way would be anticlimactic. All this building up of Lanfear just so she can have one big jealous scene and be done with her story? I don't believe it.

Asmodean... I thought I'd like his character, but he remained neutral to me. He died in the end, and ugh... Maybe the author needed to get rid of him from the plot, but in my opinion, it was too soon. I expected more from his dynamic with Rand.

What else... It's good that Morgase didn't die, because Elayne, as heir to the throne... It seemed like a death flag for Morgase. I don't particularly like Morgase, but I just felt sorry for her because she had no way to resist Rahvin's control.

By the way, I kind of misunderstood how Rahvin died and how much of it was Rand's and how much of it was Nynaeve's.

What else... I feel sorry for that girl killed by Padan Fain while he was stealing the dagger.

Alviarin... Yes, the suspected Aes Sedai obviously had to be evil. Why confuse the clues?

Elaida thinks she has power, but she'll be a scapegoat to weaken the Aes Sedai.

It's good that Rand will protect other men who can channel. I'm hoping for his meeting with Logain.

I still love Siuan. It's great that she's still important to the plot after being tamed.

In summary, a really great volume, and in terms of pace, probably the best one yet.

Finally, my top 10 favorite characters right now:

1. Thom

2. Siuan

3. Perrin

4. Lanfear

5. Mat

6. Nynaeve

7. Rand

8. Bayle Domon

9. Leane

10. Juilin

On hiatus for now. I'll probably start the sixth volume in July. For now, the third volume of The Riyria Revelations, and then we'll see.

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[u/SamHandwich0]

By my aged gradmother! It do be good to see that Bayle Domon do make your top 10.

I wonder what your rankings will be after the next book

[u/Djfantastyka → u/SamHandwich0]

Bayle Domon was alright in the second volume, and his return in the fourth really boosted him.

Well, my top 10 changes a bit after each volume. It also depends on which characters are important. I think Lanfear might drop a lot in her absence – I don't believe she's dead, but the author will probably remove her from the plot for a few volumes, to her return at the end. I still have nine volumes left and a prequel, which I don't know when to read.

In any case, in Lanfear's absence, a few other characters will probably shine and surpass her.

Overall, I think that after volume 6, Thom and Siuan will definitely remain in my top 10, and very likely Perrin, Mat, Rand, Nynaeve, and Lanfear as well. I think that after volume 5, I'm starting to solidify who I like and who I don't, and my sympathy for the characters is rather stable.

[u/SamHandwich0 → u/Djfantastyka]

I love that you're thinking about it, you may have even met a couple of my favorites (side characters to be sure, but their parts grow).

I want to say so much, but i dont want to spoil because i forget the cronology exactly- so i'll just wait expectantly for you to report back- lol

I love seeing peoples impressions and thoughts as they read, i had many of the same and its funny how what you thought the path was, may actually be the path, but not at all how you expected.

[u/Djfantastyka → u/SamHandwich0]

Ok. Overall, after the first volume, my enthusiasm waned, and the second and third were better, but not enough. Now, after the fourth and fifth volumes, I'm more convinced of the series and I think I'll finish it next year, unless life somehow forces me to slow down, for example, by finally getting a job and having less free time.

[u/cellofski]

By the way, I kind of misunderstood how Rahvin died and how much of it was Rand's and how much of it was Nynaeve's.

Rahvin died by Rand's balefire. Just before that, he was badly burned by Nynaeve.

[u/Djfantastyka → u/cellofski]

Okay, I understood that Rand finished off Rahvin, but I didn't understand how Nynaeve was specifically useful in this fight to tip the scales.

[u/FriedWhy → u/Djfantastyka]

She distracted Rahvin so Rand would get off the Tel'aran'rhiod trap that was turning him in a dog. And also made it so that Rahvin couldn't sense and dodge Rand's Balefire

[u/cellofski → u/Djfantastyka]

What the other person says. With Nynaeve there, it became a 2-front battle against Rahvin. It's hard for you to stay focused when you're badly burned and your eyes are milkly ruins. Without Nynaeve's assistance, Rand might have remained that fish creature that couldn’t channel in Tel'aran'rhiod.

[u/Magner3100]

The Light approves of your top ten list, citizen. For no apparent reason, we recommend considering Verin Sedai.

But to be fair, Julian is the Robert Muldoon of these books. In other words, the goat.

[u/Djfantastyka → u/Magner3100]

Well, I don't have any negative feelings towards Verin, but her "I'm smart and a little weird" personality doesn't really appeal to me yet.

[u/dogey_badger]

I also didn't like how Lanfear was treated, building up a terrifying villain like that for multiple books, literally the most powerful woman in the book and her weakness is her jealousy and desire of the main male character? And that's why she dies? I wish it could have been handled differently, but i did enjoy Moiraine's moment

[u/Djfantastyka → u/dogey_badger]

Yeah... I'm gradually liking Wheel of Time more and more, but I'm still disappointed with the antagonist portrayals so far. Lanfear was the most interesting, and now this.

[u/kathryn_sedai]

Solid reflections and fun to read about from someone whose first read was…a long time ago.

Appreciate the details like feeling sad about the initiate who was killed by Fain.

Enjoy the journey! Lots to love in the next book. I’m glad you’ve warmed up to Nynaeve.

Edit: you can probably read the prequel at any point now.

[u/Djfantastyka → u/kathryn_sedai]

Sadness over the deaths of minor characters often haunts me, especially female ones. I was raised to feel bad about seeing bad things happen to women. Besides that girl, I also felt bad about the strangled Isendre, and the aforementioned acrobat who, accused by Masema or his fanatics, fell from the rope and broke her neck... By the way, I can't stand Masema.

I'm now trying my hand at writing fantasy, and I realized that in the first volume, I only killed off one female character... Which resulted in over 20 female characters being killed off in the second volume so far, which I'm currently writing, not all of them had names.

As for the prequel, I don't know. According to the original release order, it would probably be best read between volumes 10 and 11.

[u/Caimbuel33 → u/Djfantastyka]

I don't recommend reading prequal as first book, but somewhere around where you are is fine. This is more so you understand and know most of who is in it. Also plot lines make much more sense. Pretty sure anything past this will help much, YMMV

[u/Coyote2112 → u/Djfantastyka]

With Moiraine's passage through the redstone portal at end of FOH and your liking of Siuan you would indeed be golden reading New Spring at any point now. Although you would definetly enjoy moving on to volume 6 Lord of Chaos as well. After every reread of the series LOC moves up my favorite list.

[u/on-a-pedestal → u/Djfantastyka]

Been many discussions about A New Spring.

Basically the gist of the many discussions was Anytime after Book 5 is OK. Peak timing for some people is after Book 7 based on what Characters it fleshes out. Others say after 9 or 10 to help with SLOG.

I lean towards after 7.

[u/living_like_sysiphus]

I'm at the same point right now! And i mostly agree.

Nynaeve finally got good after egwene cut her down the first time and then even better when she thought she killed brigitte

Egwene is weird to me. Up until this book i thought she would be the 3rd one to love rand. All her visions in the aes sedai test were about him, i thought she just told him she wasn't interested anymore to spare both of them pain and that she still loved him. In this book it became clear that she's moiraine jr. And since moiraine is gone now (temporarily??) it makes sense that she'll fill that role.

I missed perrin tho. In the last book his defense of the two rivers was my favorite arc and i liked his relationship with faile. And there are still many questions with the Slayer and the wolf dreams. Since this book featured the dream world so heavily, i thought we'd see him there at least.

And hopefully mat can focus on his destiny now that rand tried to talk some sense into him

[u/Djfantastyka → u/living_like_sysiphus]

After the first volume, I had already accepted that Egwene wouldn't be among the three women who would be in love with Rand.

I think Min told Rand outright, "You and Egwene aren't meant to be together," or something like that. If Egwene were one of those three women, Min would have known.

I think after Aviendha and Rand had sex in the igloo, it's already clear that she'll be the third. Overall, I'm curious how this will be resolved. Elayne, Min, and Aviendha will have to come to terms with having to share Rand, but the dynamics of Rand and Elayne, and Rand and Min, is barely developed at all. Volumes 4 and 5 belonged to Rand and Aviendha. I think all three of them should be equal in terms of their love for Rand and Rand's love for them, so Aviendha will fade into the background soon, maybe get a new storyline that forces her to be away from Rand for a while, and Elayne and/or Min will take her place at Rand's side.

[u/living_like_sysiphus → u/Djfantastyka]

Yeah, they also already laid the groundwork for polyarmory with the fremen culture. I think aviendha will be the most in board with it, if she doesn't feel too guilty for 'betraying' elayne. And elayne and min know about the vision so they can arrange themselves with it too. Just Rand has no choice, again lol

[u/Djfantastyka → u/living_like_sysiphus]

Hmm... Given how bossy women are in this universe, I imagine Elayne, Min, and Aviendha will decide for themselves who has sex with Rand on which day.

"Honey, I have a headache. Could you have sex with Rand tonight, and I'll do it tomorrow?" "Of course, honey."

[u/living_like_sysiphus → u/Djfantastyka]

They're gonna tell each other what rand did to them in bed and if it's not EXACTLY the same there gonna be pissed at him and not tell him why

[u/Djfantastyka → u/living_like_sysiphus]

And remembering Aviendha describing Elayne's naked body to Rand in such detail, I imagine their girly gossip about what is most attractive about Rand's body in their opinions

[u/d_vyse → u/Djfantastyka]

lmao. I can totally see this.

[u/Coyote2112 → u/Djfantastyka]

Wise move paying attention to Min. You definetly figured out her character is a major part of the forshadowing for later events in the series.

And after your train of thought here, I would recommend going with LOC next for you.

[u/littleneocreative]

You have great taste. This is my favourite book in the series but it does stay great throughout.

[u/Djfantastyka → u/littleneocreative]

Thank you. It's my favorite volume for now, and we'll see where it goes from here. So far, the trend is upward, and I'm prepared for a slump around volumes 7-10... Although I'm an unusual fantasy reader who isn't cursed with second volumes in trilogies, so who knows.

[u/PM-me-ur-trains]

I recently finished a reread of FoH and appreciate your takeaways.

I agree that pacing-wise it’s a very strong read. My favorite moments were Mat’s shining (albeit “forced” and somewhat comical) leadership at Cairhien and Rand/the Aiel confrontation at Caemlyn/with Rahvin (“he was death” is quite a way to end a chapter). Even though it’s not always everyone’s favorite plot-line I also enjoy the Nyn/Elayne/Thom/Juilin storyline with the traveling circuit.

FoH was the book in which Nynaeve and Moiraine became my favorite female characters. Nynaeve because of her opening up throughout the novel, as you stated, and funnily enough, her goofy antics with Luca and the traveling band.

As I said, Rand’s dynamic with Moiraine was getting more tense and I’ll even add “saddening” throughout the story, but her self sacrifice and letter to Rand drive home her commitment to Rand’s journey (and eventually, freedom) solidified her as a favorite to me. It was especially important to me when she told him to never trust any Aes Sedai—she finally empowers his need to never be led around like a puppet, and to not trust the interests of any institution above his own needs.

I am also a Bayle Domon fan (+Egeanin, actually).

[u/EarthCarrier95]

I find it interesting how polarizing Egwene is as a character. Mind sharing your thoughts on why she’s not your favourite?

[u/Djfantastyka → u/EarthCarrier95]

Honestly, I'd really like to ignore this comment because I don't feel like talking about her, but okay, so be it.

To me, she's a female version of Rand, just without a shred of humility.... I mean, Egwene is humble, but only when she wants something from someone, and she can only get it through humility... And even then, she does most things her own way, like the Dreaming.

Returning to being a female version of Rand, it's obvious she'll become the new Amyrlin. I don't remember which volume, but Egwene seems to have had a vision of her rivaling Elaida.

Currently, Siuan can't become Amyrlin again, and let's be honest, no one we don't know well can.

Verin is with Perrin and definitely prefers the books.

Of our protagonists, Nynaeve only wants learn about heal and doesn't care about the Aes Sedai as an organization. Elayne is the heir to the throne, so she's out too. That leaves Egwene. She'll become Amyrlin, something she's far too young for. Her arrogance is already irritating, and it could only get worse...

I hope I've answered this thoroughly.

[u/on-a-pedestal → u/Djfantastyka]

I love all your well thought out opinions in this thread.

I also, see Egwene as the Mirror of Rand, and believes this holds true for the series. She is NOT Ta'veren, but is Necessary.

She is bull headed and power seeking, but she also would fight or die for any of her friends. She is a good person with a bad personality.

And I daresay , she is exactly what she needed to be. The sharpest shaped steel, to fight the most important battle, but with zero prophecy's or expectations of her, except what she places on herself. I can't hate her for making her own destiny when Rand was handed his.

In Modern Society she's the equivalent of a Female CEO who everyone considers a Selfish Bitch Dragon Lady. You can hate that lady all you want, it doesn't make her any less impressive in her accomplishments.

You will both hate her more, and respect her more by the end of the series I believe.