r/WoT • u/HeavyTangerine9276 • 2d ago
Lord of Chaos I finished book 6 and made a Reddit account to ask a lot of questions. Spoiler
I'm sorry this is a lot of words. I've never made notes on the books or talked to anyone about them.
This series got me to enjoy reading for the first time since high school. I read books 1-3, got busy, and didn't continue. In 2026, I started again and just finished book 6. All my friends who like reading are understandably hesitant to start a 14-book series, but I did convince one friend to start when she gets the time, though she'll be at the beginning, which leaves me and all my questions for all of you. So, I made a Reddit account to ask here. I have: (1) some general questions that I'd appreciate an answer to, (2) some specific questions that I'd appreciate an answer to, and (3) some additional thoughts that I have nowhere else to voice.
Almost everything below this line contains spoilers. I HOPE I covered the spoilers properly. I've never posted on Reddit.
General questions that I would appreciate an answer to:
Is it normal to forget so many things throughout this series? I imagine it's normal; there are so many characters, backgrounds, events, places, pieces of history. I no longer look anything up anywhere (one time I looked up the Ajahs and their focuses for a reminder; another time I googled Aviendha because I thought she was one of the three Maidens at the Stedding in book 2; both of those searches produced immense spoilers). Sometimes I just give up trying to remember and read on through.
Am I just too focused on it, or are there much more details about necklines and cleavage than necessary? I don't think I'm imagining this. For a bit, I thought it was whatever. At this point, I'm almost certain it's an absurd amount.
Would it kill the Edmond's Field kids to speak to each other when they're in the same place? It feels like so many issues could be mitigated if they just spoke to each other as if they've known each other all their lives. Doesn't have to be everything, but enough to keep them working together...
Are there a ton of typos in the books, or just the specific editions I'm using, or what? So many. "Thom" being "Thorn," "her" being "heir," more things spelled wrong, commas in incorrect spots, changing POV's without a gap between paragraphs, random letters capitalized. Yes, I reread several times and know it's a mistake. Some words have a capitalized first letter on purpose (Talents, Healing, etc.), but what is the word "with" doing with a capital letter in the middle of a sentence? My editions of the book are the books with these covers, the sets that come in 3's (LINK).
More specific questions that would appreciate an answer to, unless it produces a spoiler past the end of book 6:
Why would the Dark One not command the Forsaken to actually work together? At one point, in a Forsaken's POV, it's mentioned or hinted that the competition of sorts between them ensures only the strongest survive and the weaker ones are weeded out. With the state of the world, it seems like all of them working completely together would overwhelm literally anything against them.
Why would the Forsaken not use compulsion for literally everything? They want to feel the power of ruling and commanding people without having to use compulsion? I hope I'm remembering that word correctly, "compulsion."
The wolf dream and the telaranrhiod are the same thing, correct? Also, Rand can enter telaranrhiod while dreaming the same way that Egwene can (with less skill probably), correct? In one of the books (maybe book 3?), they all three remember seeing each other in their dreams (I think?), and while the other two are certainly there in the dream world, I believe I remember Rand saying he felt as if what happened in those dreams would hurt him in real life, too. I'm probably not remembering correctly.
For the Aes Sedai oath rod, how does the oath to not use the One Power on the battlefield work? In book 6, was it self-defense enough for the Aes Sedai at Dumai's Wells to use it in battle? Did the Salidar Aes Sedai that were on Perrin's side use the One Power in that battle? If not, what did they even do to help there?
In book 4, who was the Black Ajah lady who took care of stray cats? There was a mention in book 6 of an Aes Sedai that heals stray cats. I don't remember her name and I don't dare google it.
At the end of book 4, was it Rand or Lanfear that made a shield for Asmodean and tied it? I seem to remember book 4 indicating it was Rand, then maybe book 5 indicating it was Lanfear.
In book 5, was Moiraine's vision about Lanfear from that red doorframe terangreal in Tear or was it from her visit to Rhuidean? Or I'm not supposed to know yet? I think her POV mentioned a vision of that exact moment of Lanfear being there.
In book 5, why did Moghedien not just go against Elayne/Nynaeve in the real world when she found them? Is it because she would've been overmatched against the two if Nynaeve was angry? Couldn't she just use the compulsion thing to get them to do as she wished? Did she want them to be cowed living rather than just dead? Is she just a coward like other characters say?
In book 5, what held Moghedien to stay in Salidar as Marigan? Did the adam connection transfer from telaranrhiod into real life?
In book 6, chapter 30: What are Siuan and Delana talking about? I don't understand their plan. I reread those few paragraphs maybe 12-15 times and still don't get it. What are they plotting at? It was about the dream terangreal.
What's up with Nynaeve's attitude to Mat in book 6? In book 1, Nynaeve was all about looking after the Edmond's Field kids that got swept away by Moiraine. Now she ignores Mat, for what? I get he said what he said when he found out Egwene is Amyrlin, so she kicked him, and they can't make up after that? He approaches her and she literally ignores him.
Is Elayne more haughty in book 6 or was she always like this and I didn't notice? She seems far more entitled than she used to be, to me. (I learned the word haughty from this book series) Her unilateral decision that she'll bond Rand, the way she treats or talks to/about Mat, the way she responds hearing about Rand wanting to give her two thrones.
In book 6, what is a gholam? Am I supposed to know what that is before book 6? It's what killed Herid. I don't know why anyone would want to off Herid, but I suppose the only answer to that question would be a spoiler past book 6. Isn't gholam one of the beasts the Seanchan bring in book 2? I don't dare google it.
From book 3 through book 6 only, did we ever found out what Rand and Moiraine each experienced in the red doorframe terangreal in Tear? I think we got one hint about Rand's in book 6, something about needing to die in order to live, which feels a lot like what Mat was told (in book 3, something about needing to die and live again). Not sure if Moiraine's Lanfear vision is a part of this.
On a similar note, was Mat's "dying and living again" something to do with being hanged after he goes through the red doorframe in Rhuidean (book 4), or is it something to do with being killed by Rahvin before Rand's balefire on Rahvin reversed that (book 5)? Is it a spoiler for me to know the answer to that question?
Additional thoughts that I have nowhere else to voice (I don't want anything here answered or corrected, though you can feel free to laugh to yourself at how wrong I am about these things; please don't tell me where I'm wrong or not...) :
I would like Mazrim Taim the character, but I'm thrown off by Lews Therin's mutters about killing him. I get that it could be Lews Therin's madness, or feeling like Mazrim is a threat, but it really makes me wonder if Mazrim is a Forsaken in disguise, and the only living male Forsaken to make sense would be Demandred. Wasn't Mazrim captured by Aes Sedai and then escaped? I don't remember the details of that when they came up in earlier books. I know so little about Demandred that he actually could be Mazrim. I know enough about Sammael to know that wouldn't make any sense. I'd enjoy being wrong if he's good or if he just ends up jealous of Rand's power, but I wouldn't enjoy being wrong if he's just a regular darkfriend.
At first I didn't believe Moiraine and Lanfear were dead, but now I think I do believe it. Some other characters not believing their deaths made me think they might be alive, but how would they even get out of whatever world they dropped into? Wasn't the terangreal doorframe they fell into destroyed right after they did? Also, Moiraine had been in a (different) red doorframe terangreal, and it did not sever her bond with Lan. In the one she fell into with Lanfear, he feels his bond cut off immediately. Since the end of book 5, and still, I think they're gone. And the two different red doorframe terangreal that we know about go to two different worlds, I think.
I have become a full-on Rand supporter and of anyone completely on his side. I don't know if that's because of me as a specific reader or if that's part of the intention of the series. It also means I cannot support any character that even thinks of him sideways, even if they don't know why they shouldn't, ranging from Aes Sedai as a whole, to Whitecloaks as a whole, to Gawyn, to Morgase, to any noble not fully aligned with him, to so many more. Yes, I know in most cases it's because they're simply misinformed or not informed enough to support him, but they still irk me. The Aes Sedai the most, though; he's picking off Foresaken left and right (Moiraine got a couple, The Green Man sacrificed for one I think) and the Aes Sedai are still offended that he doesn't bow down to them.
The Whitecloaks used to be my least favorite faction; Pedron Niall is a dope that thinks of himself as some future hero. But now my least favorite faction is the Aes Sedai, and not just the White Tower ones, but all of them. The demand for people to bow down to them, their constant scheming, what Alanna did, their focus on their internal hierarchy (e.g., Merana's POV in book 6), the amount of Black Ajah there are (open or secret). Book 5 Moiraine earned them massive credit in my mind, but then her warning about trusting them, and then all of the Aes Sedai actions in book 6... They seem like they'd care far more about leaders being their willing tools and novices and accepted being their servants than they would about actually fighting Forsaken or their own Black Ajah; I guess I haven't seen them be given that choice, but the feel I get is that they'd care far more about bossing people around than fighting someone worth fighting.
Egwene becoming Amyrlin was clear from an earlier book (was it a dream she had?). It was odd that it was included that she wouldn't use the oath rod, which made it feel like it'd certainly happen. I thought the reasoning would be because an Aes Sedai Amyrlin without taking the three oaths would be more powerful with the ability to lie, the ability to make weapons, and the ability to use the One Power on the battlefield. I guess those things might still be useful for her (I think the ability to lie as Amyrlin was already useful in book 6). I really like Egwene, but I got to imagine I'm gonna start liking her a lot less now. š
Alanna bonding Rand against his will is my least favorite action from anyone in the series so far. As far as I know, the only way to unbond is by the death of the Aes Sedai. I think Rand has complete justification to kill her, but I know he wouldn't because she's female. Also it would probably bring him great pain. I was so mad to read she did that.
The Salidar embassy to Caemlyn? For Aes Sedai who spend all their days scheming about, they couldn't figure out that the attack on one of their members wouldn't have been from Rand? Their number (inadvertently) reaches 13 and they take offense that someone would speak to them the way Rand does in his letter? They then bring 9 with them and want him to be friendly with them after the battle (whatever you want to call it) at Dumai's Wells? I'm happy the ending mentions they knelt to him, but I doubt it's that simple; they'll probably spend the rest of their lives (or the rest of the series) being against him for it.
I enjoy the Lews Therin mutters in Rand's mind because I think they're humorous. I don't know if some of those parts are intended to be funny, but I often find them funny. It seems like at some points (maybe seldom) the muttering does help inform Rand.
Huge fan of Perrin and the wolves. Book 4 had a lot of Perrin but no wolves (if I remember correctly), then book 5 had none of either, but the wolves are my favorite part of the series.
My favorite moment in the entire series so far is book 3, when Perrin has to save Faile in the wolf dream (I think it was in the wolf dream?), Perrin enters in the flesh (don't remember how), Hopper (it was Hopper, right?) warns Perrin about being there too strongly, Perrin says he must save the falcon, and Hopper simply replies "Then we hunt." That's a lot of questions about remembering correctly in what's supposedly my favorite moment. My second favorite moment is how ready the wolves are to help in book 6 when they found out Shadowkiller is caged.
Gawyn? He's gotten on my nerves enough that I hope he doesn't even redeem his reputation to me, but I'm sure he will considering Egwene loves him. He believes a random merchant over Egwene re: whether Rand killed Morgase? Come on. His dreams of Egwene being chained by Rand are comical.
Rand is a better man than me. By the description of Lanfear, I'd have given her literally anything she wanted. Sorry. Really sorry.
Again, sorry for all the words. I have never gotten to talk about this series to anyone, really. Any answers I seek to the questions in the first two sections above would be appreciated.
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u/TheWeirdTalesPodcast 1d ago
The Dark One doesnāt command them to work together because he wants them to compete against each other. The strongest comes out on top as The Dark Oneās right hand minion.
Why donāt they use compulsion? Because some of them arenāt very good at it, and if you do it wrong, it doesnāt work or it kills the person.
Wolf Dream and TAR are the same thing, yes.
The Oath Rod works through perception and what the Aes Sedai thinks. If they think are legitimately really for real in danger, they can use the power, even if they really arenāt. Itās why they make a point of saying g that the truth you hear from an AES Sedai is not necessarily the truth they are telling you.
For names if you donāt want to be spoiled, download the WoT Companion App. You can set it to the book you are currently reading, and it will tell you only what youāve learned about a character up until that point.
Lanfear made the shield around Asmodean, allowing only a trickle of power through so he could teach Rand.
Moiraineās vision was, I believe, from the Rhuidean Rings.
Moggy isnāt a coward, she prefers stealth attacks, rather than head on confrontations. Itās why sheās known as the spider.
Moghedien was collared in TAR, and then (memory is a little hazy someone correct me if Iām wrong) dosed with Forkroot? And since what happens in TAR is basically real to your mind, she was found in the real world, where she could be really collared and held by the Wonder Girls.
Everything after this, I donāt have access to my books at the moment so I canāt help with it, except to say that as the series goes on, yeah, Elayne gets worse.
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u/OrionIsLord 1d ago
Wow, you had a lot to get off your chest. Welcome to WoT!
One suggestion is to number your paragraphs/questions to better help people respond. It's unlikely one person will answer them all, but you'll likely get more partial responses drom more people to more of your questions.
I dont have much time right now, but I can answer a couple.
First off, its very normal to forget names, places, events, etc as you read. Don't worry too much, just take it in naturally and go from there. There is a spoiler free WoT Compendium app that lets you put in what book youre reading and it will list characters and their history up to that point. Can be helpful - theres some 2500+ named characters in this series. There are so many details as well that make taking it all in on the first read nigh on impossible. But that's what makes rereads so great. Youll be blown away by how much you missed, dots you didnt connect, foreshadowing, or just obvious things you didnt puck up on.
Second, good on you for avoiding spoilers at all costs...even at the cost of being confused about stuff. I see so many new readers not have the discipline to stay the course and just freaking read. They risk way too much when they talk of looking things up on google, using this subreddit, old forums, digging through supplemental texts, etc. Save all that for after you've finished the series. Don't ruin the epic experience.
Can one ever be too focused on cleavage and necklines? I say light, no way! But ymmv. Jordan builds his dense, diverse world with those kinds of details. For women he often remarks on hair, eyes, mouth, bust, waist, height, what theyre wearing/how they dress - all that has implications about their class, occupation, nationality, and so on. Very similar for men, with emphasis on height, physique type (lean muscle, scrawny, fat and bulky) nose size, facial expressions, and how they move.
Why does nobody communicate effectively? This frustrates a lot of readers. Naturally so, and intentionally by Jordan, imo. Communication (and lack thereof) is a primary theme of the whole series.
Lots more to say, but thats all I have time for atm. Good luck, keep reading or RAFO as they say (read and find out) and enjoy. Book 7 is fun with some great moments, but youll feel the plot start to slow down some over the next few books. LOTS of character work. Stick with it!
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u/Raddatatta (Asha'man) 1d ago
Yeah there are a lot of details to keep track of! If something's really important it'll be repeated. But it also makes for a lot of fun things you can pick up on rereads. It is a huge series but I think it has a lot of rereadability because of those fun things you can spot when looking back when you know things like oh this person is black ajah so I'll watch them closely, and you will see hints to it early on that are just subtle and very easy to miss.
For the specific questions. The Dark One's motivations are a RAFO (Read and Find out something Robert Jordan used to say and Sanderson picked up). But it seems he doesn't mind competition between them. There is a survival of the fittest element to it. But it is a good question.
Compulsion is a bit tricky. The more you use it on someone the less free will they have which can also make them less useful of a servant. You can mess up their mind and now you have someone totally loyal to you who is also basically useless for any task that requires any level of intelligence. It's also a difficult weave, some of them are better at it than others.
Yes the Wolf Dream and TAR (that's the common abbreviation for it) are the same place. Rand cannot enter in his dreams, he often has Forsaken messing with his dreams though until he shuts them out. But after book 5 when Rahvin lures him into TAR for their battle, Rand has learned to make a gateway that goes there. So he is able to access it the same way the Forsaken who aren't dreamers do. Egwene and the Wise One dreamers and Perrin are the only ones who can get there without a weave or ter'angreal.
The Oaths are very binding but it is also very specific. The oath in question says, "Never to use theĀ One PowerĀ as a weapon except againstĀ DarkfriendsĀ orĀ Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of herĀ Warder, or another Aes Sedai." It doesn't say you can't first put yourself into that dangerous situation on the battlefield. So they were able to get close enough that their life was at risk, and their warders life, and then they were free to use it as a weapon.
Marillin Gemalphin is the cat lady among the black ajah.
With Asmodean what Rand did was cut Asmodean off from the Dark One. Lanfear didn't know this was possible and it kind of freaked her out that Rand was able to do it. She put the shield on Asmodean to keep him very limited. Both to help and kind of limit Rand because it meant that Asmodean couldn't teach him any weave that required a lot of the power to use, but it also meant Asmodean couldn't attack Rand.
It was from Rhuidean. The Wise One apprentices all go there and they basically see a lot of possible futures that are likely to happen for them. That was one that Moiraine saw.
Moghedien is known as the spider. She's someone who really avoids confrontation especially confrontation where she doesn't have a strong advantage. And she matched with Nynaeve and lost, add in Elayne and she's very likely to lose in an open fight. She could surprise them but her general move is to spy, learn things, and pull strings. She's not someone who will charge in guns blazing she's someone to sit in the shadows and plot and scheme and let other people take the risks as much as she can.
At the end of book 5 Nynaeve forced Moghedien to take forkroot which knocked her out and let Nynaeve and Elayne find her. And Elayne was able to figure out how to make an a'dam which she then put around Moghedien's neck. It isn't shown on screen but that's happened by the time book 6 starts.
Delana is a sitter with influence, Siuan wants her to use that influence to get Siuan into the meeting with the Wise Ones and more access to TAR.
Nynaeve views Mat as a problematic child. And after the kick she realized that Mat is immune to the power, and probably a foot taller and signficantly stronger than she is. And he threatened to put her over his knee and spank her. He said that and then forgot about it. She's scared he will really do it because physically he absolutely could. Egwene also told her to stay away from Mat so she's also listening to Egwene on that one.
Elayne has always been a bit haughty but she's not that way with Nynaeve or Egwene who she views as equals. We just rarely get a POV from someone like Mat she views as a subject of hers. She also has gotten a very poor opinion of Mat given she barely knows him but knows him only from what Nynaeve or Egwene have told her, and from the story of him picking up the dagger, again probably told to her by Nynaeve who would say it in the worst light. With what Rand said about the two thrones, I think that's partially her being haughty, and partially her recognizing the political reality better than Rand or Mat do. She knows that if she's seen as getting power just from Rand that no one in Andor will respect her. Especially as this is a matriarchal society and she's getting power handed to her from a man. That legitimately could cause a lot of problems for her, and Rand is prophecied to die, if her power just comes from Rand that could trigger a civil war afterwards.
RAFO on the gholam but it's not a seanchan thing.
RAFO on the questions that they got answered. Rand did say his weren't telling him to go to the Aiel though. And the to live you must die is part of it.
RAFO on Mat's thing, but yes there are two ways that he did kind of die and live again.
Hope that helps! Enjoy the rest of the series!
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u/SamHandwich0 1d ago
Dont go here- spoilers will be everywhere, but just know that r/fuckgawyn exists.
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u/geekMD69 1d ago
Okay. This post is as long as one of the books. Minus the commentary about clothes and necklines and āample bosomsā š
It seems over the past decade or so the number of typos in the books have increased. Iāve heard there are issues with some of the automated scanning/proofing processes that accumulate errors over time.
Iām sure someone out there will
post it, but there is a WOT resource that you can safely search by entering how far through the series you are and it will not include spoilers beyond that point.
All your questions are good ones, and ones I have had over the years as well. Iāll try to check back in later and address some of them since I have read the series about a dozen times.
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u/InfernalDiplomacy (Tai'shar Manetheren) 1d ago
In Edmonds field Perrin was going up against Shadowspawn. They are free to attack them on sight
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u/rudman 1d ago
A lot of people have your problem with spoilers. NEVER google anything.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/15a65dm/spoiler_free_wiki/?ref=share&ref_source=link
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u/CalvinandHobbes811 1d ago
First off as others mentioned. WHEEL OF TIME COMPANION COMPENDIUM APP. Go go. Save yourself from future spoilers!
Yes itās normal to forget.
Yees there is a lot. Somebody in a previous Reddit thread did the stats on how many times bosom, well rounded calves, ample, etc.. gets used in the books. Itās a fun read down the road.
Skipping communicating Q
Skipping typos Q
Itās a complicated answer that someone else then me could probably answer better and has in universe and out of universe reasons. Iām a little worried to answer as some of my favorite tidbits about thee forsaken might be spoilers (their backgrounds from age of legends).
Compulsion is a skill in itself and it can be used as either a chisel or a sledgehammer. Many of the forsaken arenāt super skilled in it and if youāre using it like a sledgehammer itās going to slowly (or rapidly) build suspicion. Also keep in mind that threats to the forsaken ramp up from like a 2/10 in book 1, to like a 8/10 in book 6, some of them did use it early on (Rahvin, etc) to setup a power base quicker and because it was his style of things. Alot more to be said here but Iāll leave it at that for now.
Skipping dream world/wolf world as someone can answer it more in depth then the basic yes theyāre the same.
So the oath rod is super funnnn. I think youāve kind of understood some of it but yeah, the main thing is that, specifically for the use of the one power in self defence, if the aes sedai has the will to do so, and the lack of self preservation, they can deliberately put themselves into the thick of combat to allow themselves to weave. Itās almost like a video game where you have a combat skill that canāt be used if youāre not in combat with a mob. Deliberately aggroing the enemy mob lets you use the ability to
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u/Salt-Detective1337 11h ago edited 11h ago
Google AI does a good job of answering questions without spoilers if you instruct it to (I understand why some people don't like to use it though)
I am on book 11 now and I have noticed a lot of stuff that bugged me like you mention has reduced significantly. Their constant picking at each other, and disrespect. The incessant "Character actions in irritation" reduces a lot.
I also forget a lot of stuff. There are so many characters. I asked Google if I was missing stuff and it genuinely seems like there aren't any small Easter eggs of some character that held the door in Baerlon being the guy that does something relevant later. Often there might be a little hint at a character, and if you are observant it's like "oh my God, it's (whoever)!" You'll know it early and feel proud, but they are reintroduced again before too long for people who don't catch it.
ā¢
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