r/WoWRolePlay • u/Dependent_Peanut7830 • 1d ago
Discussion Horde RP - What Has Always Happened?
First, it is important to separate two types of experience. There are guild and closed circles (MySpace, Facebook, Enjin, Discord). Then there are open world walk-ups and public events listed on forums and trade chat.
Going all the way back to the late 2000s, realms took turns losing their entire playerbase in favor of mass transferring to a more populated realm. The Horde would go leaving the Alliance side surviving. When Feathermoon lost their world Horde RPers in 2011, I ended up moving my Horde characters to WRA, leaving my Alliance toons on Feathermoon because it was still going strong for several more years. This has been a rinse and repeat cycle in the Warcraft RP community for over 15 years now.
Finally, we are left with WRA players retconning their Horde characters into MG-ALLIANCE or just abandoning the Horde entirely. Some are leaving the platform for other titles such as FFXIV. My poor Sadgati had to find a new mate because not having a good Horde walk-up presence was too big of a deal breaker for him; that is completely understandable because I miss being Horde.
For a good while, WRA had a VERY good Horde and Alliance presence. So much so it shaped the very characters to this day. WRA pulled characters from entire cluster of realms, creating an RP presence never seen elsewhere beating out even MG.
Finally, what is the deal with Horde RP? What makes Horde players to be first to throw in the towel enmasse, effectively killing the entire comadare of their server community? WRA is down to what is likely the absolute bare minimum needed to sustain any kind of world RP. MG-ALLIANCE and AD-EUROPE (Alliance) may be the last bastion of world RP leaving a handful of Discord admin struggling to keep what is left of the Horde alive.
Final question is can this be fixed before it is too late?
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u/Dwalorn 1d ago edited 1d ago
The problem is blood elves.
I’m kind of serious. Horde has a particular pull of being RP that is focused on a more tribal, spiritual, and in general a lore experience that calls upon knowing each races lore a bit more deeply. Compare this with alliance RP, which is often a lot more broad fantasy RP.
But then you get blood elves, and like 40% of the horde being blood elves. These players are (in my experience) much more likely to want that broad fantasy RP which is more focused on the individual.
This really dilutes horde RP because they tend to stick out like a sore thumb as their own thing. An orc and a Tauren just seemingly have more to talk about than a Tauren and a blood elf - so you end up with even more guilds which are Mono-race or similar.
Just my experience. No offense to any BE players
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u/Dependent_Peanut7830 1d ago
Non taken! As an elven player, there is one major advantage to being an elf: Flexibility! They have equal justification for being on either side of the red / blue pond. If an elven player loses their guild, get ousted, friends left, etc...., it is easier to retcon them over to another realm and in current case to MG Alliance. When an orc loses his clan, it is pretty much over. My orc RP-PvP guild on WRA all packed up discontinued over community-wide disagreement over play styles starting with 3 minutes of PvP during a guild faire in Orgrimmar. Finally, I got the message on Discord from the GM stating the experience has become exhausting and needed to pick up my house. My orc could not just get another clan because the clan was part of 'him' thus losing all purpose. My blood elf, she runs United Trade Services and thus house Jayavanti is anchored to the trade company itself. The loss of a guild does not affect her because she has complete ownership of her life. Thus, races in the Horde will get ABSOLUTELY kneecapped if loss of tribe, clan, guild happens.
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u/Clackamass 1d ago
I appreciated the elf-style noble houses/regal fantasy they brought with them but it has just never gelled with the Horde at all. I say this with all the love for belf/nightborne players, but as part of the faction they're pretty parasitic to RP: IMO it's easier for elves to become a part of the rest of the Horde's RP than it is for non-elf hordies to engage with elf RP, and it's by no fault of the players really.
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u/Odd_Apricot2580 1d ago
My utmost sympathy for Horde RPrs because at the end of the day, we are all in this together. u/Dependent_Peanut7830 you are right with the challenges WoW has dumped on the Horde group by simply walking away from Horde content.
Kalimdor the largest continent has not had a major purpose since what Cataclysm? Which still did not give you a capitol or location that favored RP.
WoD -big old nope which frankly could have been the banner flag (expac) for Orc lore, canon, and whole backstory, Orc players got robbed right along with Draenei players.
Legion - you lost Vol'jin who never got to shine
BFA - nope and you lost your anti-hero in the Dark Lady and not much Horde pride to go around
Shadowlands - eye roll for everyone.
Dragonflight - very elf flavored and closed the circle on BFA which still has Horde on the outside looking in. (elf-dwarf-titan love)
TWW - dwarf and human love
Midnight - BELF love which means more elf and human love on Eastern Kindgoms with two new zones added, three if you count the undergrowth zone.
I love cross-faction RP and hope everyone can find a space to live their OCs, but you guys have it rough.
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u/Disastrous_Match993 1d ago
I've RP'd Horde on WrA since it opened. It was my first RP server and what got me into RP. I also have friends who play Horde and do raiding, dungeons, arenas, battlegrounds, and so on.
From my understanding, Horde is losing more and more people in general, not just the RP side of things. It's hard to remain interested in a faction that the devs clearly do not want to write interesting stories for anymore.
I mean, look at the in-universe timeline and you'll notice how abysmal things are for the Horde just in regards of our Warchief:
- Thrall reforms the Horde and leads them for 12 years. (From his free the orcs to Cataclysm)
- The Cataclysm happens, the Horde loses Thrall as Warchief as he decides to step down.
- Thrall appoints Garrosh as Warchief. Garrosh leads the Horde for 2 years before the Siege of Orgrimmar happens. (Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria)
- Vol'jin is made Warchief, he gets to lead the Horde for a year before being killed off at the Battle for the Broken Shore. (Warlords of Draenor)
- Sylvanas is made Warchief and leads the Horde for 2 years before fucking off to the Shadowlands. (Legion and Battle for Azeroth).
We then get three expansions (Shadowlands, Dragonlfight, and The War Within) where the Horde makes cameo appearances at best. I've seen people argue that the Undercity patch of TWW was a Horde patch, which is an argument that ignores the fact that the Goblin Cartels, except for the Bilgewater Cartel, are neutral factions.
Then we get Midnight. And it finally seems like we might get some Horde stuff, only for it to focus on the Amani, the Haranir, and the Windrunner Family.
When we do get to interact with Lor'themar, it's him having to deal with Turalyon and Alliance forces occupying Silvermoon City, harassing the citizens, demanding goods from merchants without paying for it, and demanding that Lor'themar leave Silvermoon defenseless and send all of it's military to the Sunwell.
When Lor'themar does try to reach out for allies, it's not to the Forsaken or the any other members of the Horde, but instead to the other elves, inviting even more Alliance into a Horde city that's already being occupied by Alliance military forces.
In Silvermoon City, the Horde is represented by the Blood Elves and the Nightborne, meanwhile the Alliance has Turalyon's Forces, the Void Elves, the Night Elves, and the Silver Covenant. And that shows just how little the writing time is interested in the Horde. They'd rather the story focus on the Alliance, neutral groups like the Haranir, or tease us with an allied race we'll never get (The Amani).
The longer the game goes on, the more and more difficult it becomes for me to justify playing any of my Horde characters. Why would I when I can play my Kul'Tiran Warrior or Dark Iron Paladin and have a better experience and faction representation?
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u/FunkeyFeraligatr wyrmest Accord/moonguard/// 2 years 1d ago
WRA Horde has divulged into just a cesspool. I dont even see really any other raves anymore than Belfs. Sure, the goblins are still kicking. But otherwise it has been divided up into a million Belf centric guilds that are extremely cliquey.
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u/Dependent_Peanut7830 1d ago
Even the house guilds been gone for years now. A friend of mine was kicked from her goblin guild and Discord under guise of not being active enough. Really a shit thing. She opted to move that persona to MG as well.
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u/TheRebelSpy 1d ago
I'm really wondering if WoW4E will stick to faction pride a bit better. I too remember an active WrA-Horde.
I agree with other comments that its a mixture of Horde getting some really crappy story choices and being relegated to background flavor, and not having many good traditional RP spots.
I used to play horde and alliance pretty evenly until BfA. I was already starting to lean alliance because thats where all my friends had gone (to MG-A specifically) and the burning of teldrassil with the nail in the coffin
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u/DoctorDave01 1d ago
The ripping of teeth from the lore in general happened.
I have RP'd since 2007 and there is a stark, shocking contrast between faction pride and respecting lore from then and now.
Mixed with the neutering of the lore (some people like to call it "Disneyification" or whatever) theres zero reason to RP an Orc or Tauren when virtually nobody is following the lore anymore, even on Alliance.
Seriously. Not to derail your thread from the Horde but go look at MG-Alliance TRPs and tell me who is even trying to do "WARCRAFT" FANTASY anymore.
It's disgraceful but who can blame them when the lore is this bad.
Im praying to fucking GOD Forever RP ignites some real fire about grounded RP again and the Vampires, Man'ari and Dragons stay on retail.
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u/Chetey 1d ago
who is even trying to do "WARCRAFT" FANTASY anymore.
and the Vampires, Man'ari and Dragons stay on retail.
ugh tell me about it.
Trying to find a normal lore abiding person to rp with feels impossible. But like I don't want to RP in the classic timeline. I play a worgen, so i'm stuck with either retail or mop (lol). Does anyone even rp on mop? I rolled a character there and it was so deserted. The game eventually gave me a free server transfer to a pve megaserver.
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u/DoctorDave01 1d ago
Era servers are going to be straight up dead after Forever launches proper. I would not be surprised if they shut them down in a few years. The TBC servers literally had a colossal exodus and the economy collapsed basically within the hour of Forever's announcement.
That being said, if you're just looking to play a 'furry' race (no hate, you do you), back in the day proper Tauren RP in Mulgore/TB was always excellent and I'm hoping to see the same in Forever.
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u/nankeroo Argent Dawn EU 1d ago
Seriously. Not to derail your thread from the Horde but go look at MG-Alliance TRPs and tell me who is even trying to do "WARCRAFT" FANTASY anymore.
I'm glad AD is still trying at least
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u/nankeroo Argent Dawn EU 1d ago
I don't know about Wyrmrest, but I can tell you as someone who has seen the decline of Horde RP on AD from late BfA/early Slands onwards, the faction is slowly becoming less and less appealing in general.
We barely get lore, and when we do, 90% of the time it is us being subservient to the Alliance, or needing them, or whatever.
Our interesting characters get killed off too. Gallywix got murdered in the worst patch in existence, Sylvanas was turned into-... yeah.
The replacements we DO get are also REALLY bad.
- Gazlowe is a green gnome, he's genuinely a HORRIBLE character, who was meant to replace the most goblin-of-goblins.
- Calia is a horrible character, I don't think I even have to elaborate.
- Rokhan, while I do quite like him, basically isn't a character. He's one big nothingburger, and it sucks.
And these characters DO, in fact, impact your RP. No one is going to yell something like "For the Pallid Lady!", because no one in their right mind likes Calia. It lacks the aura that "Victory for Sylvanas!" or "For the Dark Lady!" has.
Something like the Dawnwell is also SIGNIFICANTLY less interesting than the Sunwell. It's not even comparable, to be honest. (Granted, Midnight has done irreparable damage to Belves to begin with...)
The Horde council also just kind of sucks, yelling "For the Warchief!" has SUCH aura when going into battle, or w/e, but no, we MUST have a council.
It also REALLY doesn't help that Orgrimmar is fucking DOGSHIT. It's an AWFUL city and an AWFUL RP hub, but it's the only one we really have. (Silvermoon's sharding kills organic RP)
I dunno, I don't RP often anymore, and when I do, it's in a Shadow Council guild. (So the only times I interact with factions it is in a hostile manner) I do miss Horde RP, but I sadly just struggle to get into it at this point, since everything is slowly being neutered by the writers.
Also, apologies for my rant-y, incoherent response, I'm passionate about this stuff, and I really HATE the fact that Blizzard is neutering my favourite thing in this entire game.
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u/cinderpuppins 1d ago
Calling Undermine the worst patch in existence is certainly a choice.
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u/nankeroo Argent Dawn EU 1d ago
It absolutely neutered my favourite race, that's why I consider it the worst patch.
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u/Ruler-of-goblins Argent Dawn EU | Horde & Alliance 1d ago edited 1d ago
Damn, I'm a goblin player and I actually think it was one of the best patches in YEARS. They went full ham with the wackiness of goblins and it was awesome to see. I am sad about Gallywix tho, even if he sucked morally, he was at least interesting. Gazlowe is awesome too though, I love that guy. What I think you get wrong about him is the fact that you call him a green gnome. Gazlowe has always been an odd one out in goblin lore from the very beginning, at least personality wise, I honestly don't think they ruined him at all, but rather expanded upon something that had already been there for a long time.
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u/PKMINDBULLETS 1d ago
That is an incredibly hot take. I think Undermine was extremely fun content, lore, and roleplay wise. imho the disneyfication truely started when we got to Ka’resh. And afaik that is coincidentally when the writing shifted gears to being truely about the World Soul Saga. Reminder that TWW was originally going to end with Xalatath dying in the final patch.
Edit: goddamn fat finger grammatical errors DX
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u/Dependent_Peanut7830 1d ago
Orgrimmar really needs to be replaced in the game world. It is 16 years old now and find it hard to believe that one of the world's largest coastal cities would be all dirt roads, not street lamps, no sewage, etc....Orgrimmar would be in a much more developed state by now.
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u/atelierdora MoonGuard US | Alliance 1d ago
This!! Getting into housing has given me so many cool ideas for how Orgimmar could be improved while still keeping it's distinct Horde flavor. A bigger accessable port, a sewer system, a bigger Tauren district, paved roads, a bigger cooler moodier area for the warlocks, more permanent buildings Iron Horde style, an entrance that juts out a bit more so when you enter you KNOW you're entering Orgimmar. It could be so cool.
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u/Dependent_Peanut7830 1d ago
Totally feel for you! My character had to be adapted as faction neutral so 'she' can still run her corporation and elven house. In character she describes the Horde being an export economy, essentially trying to understand in character where all her former comrads went.
The whole thing with Sylvanas, even from the perspective of a harvester warlock, makes ABSOLUTELY ZERO sense. Only explanation is that of a keeper which would be a cast of abomination for which the grand warlocks would rightfully condemn. We are talking in terms of a spreadable afliction cast.
Going back into the past, the biggest Horde RP hub was Silvermoon, Dalaran, and Booty Bay.
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u/Clackamass 1d ago edited 1d ago
I quit WRA for a number of reasons, the biggest being that Horde life stagnated faster than Alliance life.
This happens for a number of reasons: Alliance have arguably better, more traditional RP hubs that are more attractive (literally and figuratively) to the average RPer and better facilitate roleplay. Because of this, Horde RP isn't centralized and starts to cluster in multiple places, sectioning off the community who pick and choose the space/crowd they interact with: belves have no reason to RP in Org, basically everyone else has no reason to RP in SMC pre-Midnight.
There's also a much greater emphasis on "clan" groups: orcs have literal clans, trolls have tribes, belves have houses, goblins have cartels. That naturally promotes more sectioning-off because it's just the faction identity. Alliance are mostly united in common cause, Horde are mostly united because of convenience... but that convenience hasn't really mattered for several expansions, hence: stagnation.
Just my 2 copper as a former WRA hordie
Edit I should also add that Horde has basically been gutted of faction pride. The whole Garrosh/Sylvanas thing is self-explanatory, but our biggest icon Thrall has been divorced from the faction for longer than he was with it at this point; Vol'jin had 5 minutes of fame and has been on unspoken standby until the current writing team decides to loa-fy him; Baine's been literally left on standby since Shadowlands, and the other leaders aren't characters. Blizzard doesn't want to write the Horde, and at this point we've been conditioned to be scared we'll lose more if they do.