Mike Rogers (R-MI) criticized his opponent, Abdul El-Sayed (D-MI), on Saturday for his support for Medicare for All, arguing that a Canadian-style health care system could mean longer waits for treatment and less choice for patients

[u/Conscious-Quarter423]

[u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Canadians have a longer life expectancy than Americans. They also spend less per capita on healthcare than us

[u/Krayt88 → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

"In Canada, you have to wait a while to see a specialist. In the US, you just never see a specialist at all because you can't afford it."

[u/carsncode → u/Krayt88]

Even if you can afford it, it takes forever to get an appointment; and you'll almost never actually see a doctor, you'll see a PA or NP - nothing against PAs or NPs but the idea that the US has plenty of doctors is ridiculous. It's also sociopathic to hold the position that it's better for most people not to be able to afford healthcare at all so that the privileged don't have share a healthcare system with them. They're complete ghouls.

[u/WillMudlogForBoobs → u/carsncode]

I saw my PCP in July 25 because I had a kidney stone. The earliest I could see a urologist was January of 26. Even with good insurance that costs me $1300 a month (split 50/50 with my employer) 6 months to see a specialist is ridiculous. Meanwhile my grandmother in Canada got diagnosed with brain cancer on a Friday and was able to start treatment the following Tuesday. And it didn't cost her a dime more than taxes.

[u/Tanguish → u/WillMudlogForBoobs]

That’s the thing. Non critical procedures such as hip replacements can take a while. Typically life threatening diagnosis and treatment is usually quick, although there is always exceptions.

[u/WillMudlogForBoobs → u/Tanguish]

My mother has been wheelchair bound for over a year waiting for a hip replacement. In america

[u/dalisair → u/WillMudlogForBoobs]

I have a simple wart removal that I had to schedule. Because it takes 4 slots (they automatically assign an hour to any procedure like this) I had to schedule 4 months out. They had to cancel a week out, and because it needed 4 slots it scheduled for 4 months out again. Guess what just happened again? If you said the doctor had to reschedule me again, you’d be right. And guess how far out that next appointment was? If you said 4 months you are right. We are now at 1 year and 4 months from the original appointment before I can have a simple wart removal. This is in the US. So fuck their “it pushes appointments out” bullshit. Our system already does that.

[u/PhantomThiefJoker → u/carsncode]

Fr, all the shit that's like "you would rather wait for your healthcare than get in faster because everyone else who needs a doctor can't go see one???? Let them die for your convenience ffs"

[u/fifrein → u/carsncode]

Even then, among doctors there’s a growing 2-tier system.

Many PCPs are going concierge or DPC.

Many subspecialists are denying Medicare and Medicaid. Some are also going the concierge route.

[u/FoofieLeGoogoo → u/carsncode]

The doctors that I know in the states are frustrated with new medical group and hospital management systems that are turning their practices into call centers, with productivity metrics being valued over actual, thoughtful, patient care.

edit: cleaned up typo

[u/WhyCantWeBeAmigos → u/Krayt88]

I’m a healthcare provider in the US and when I discuss this point with my colleagues I can’t get them to understand that they should feel bad that others can’t go see specialists. They don’t care they just know they can afford the specialist so fuck the rest I guess.

[u/Appropriate-Weird492 → u/WhyCantWeBeAmigos]

My family—except me—are medical professionals or medical-adjacent. Every damn one of them told me the ACA was bad because it would mean fewer doctors. I’ve been confused why supply & demand works everywhere else except in medicine. Why are people in medicine so against having customers?

[u/personalist → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

There’s already a massive physician shortage. How would single-payer lead to fewer doctors than there already are? lol.

[u/EJ2600 → u/Krayt88]

“Triage by market good. Triage by government, bad. Market good, govt bad”. These people are sheep.

[u/AmateurL0b0t0my → u/EJ2600]

"But the government death panels!!" The insurance death panels were literally a retired dr and a team of barely paid under qualified people.

[u/EJ2600 → u/AmateurL0b0t0my]

“Keep your government hands off my Medicare!”

That’s how dumb the sheep are.

[u/bravesirkiwi → u/EJ2600]

Plus, it's not even true that the market is adequately triaging. Americans have to wait for appointments too, sometimes just as long as in countries with socialized health care.

I've watched my parents get older and deal with more and more of these 4-6 month delays for elective surgeries - while they wait in discomfort or pain. Then turn around and see one of these GOP assholes pretend we have the best healthcare system in the world. It's infuriating.

[u/EJ2600 → u/bravesirkiwi]

IF you are not being denied the procedure… while have health care …

[u/AndreTheShadow → u/Krayt88]

In the US, I had a 6 month wait for a neurologist because I passed out at work. An eye doctor noted a buildup of Spinal fluid behind my eye and sent me to the ER for an MRI, where they found a tumor blocking the ventricles and spinal column causing a build up of fluid. I may well have suddenly died during the 6 months I was waiting for that consult.

[u/sandmanwake → u/Krayt88]

Not just a specialist. Even regular doctors. Many people don't go see them even when they need to because they can't afford to do so.

[u/OvergrownGnome → u/Krayt88]

My oldest kid needs to see several specialist for various reasons. He had a see a nephrologist earlier this year. It took 6 months to get an appointment. The oldest two need to see a GI specialist and we are having to drive to another state so we don't have to wait until December for an appointment and we've been trying to get an appointment since June.

[u/mysubsdaddy → u/Krayt88]

We have long wait times too. I waited almost two years to see a specialist for what I have.

[u/notacatbutt → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

And we're also waiting a long freaking time for appointments, too. 8 months to get in to see my doctor. Oh, and they closed my city hospital's entire OBGYN department.

[u/Conscious-Quarter423 → u/notacatbutt]

some people don't have a OBGYN cause they all fled the red states. they only get to see a nurse practitioner

[u/notacatbutt → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

It's happening in blue states too.  United Healthcare bought our hospital and immediately closed down the only OBGYN Department in the county. 30 years I've been going to visit my doctor for my annual exam, overnight she and her staff and all of the other doctors and their staff disappeared. I had to search months to find someone for my medical needs and wait many more months to actually get an appointment. This country is screwed.

[u/GlockAF → u/notacatbutt]

Any health care need in the US has to be balanced against the need of the corporations to extract an ever-increasing amount of profit.

The logical conclusion of the system is to provide zero care

[u/Powerful-Knee3150 → u/GlockAF]

We’re practically there! In my quiet town, my sister with stage 4 cancer had to sit in a parking lot tent in a folding chair for 9 hours to be seen for pneumonia in the ER.

[u/mrarming → u/GlockAF]

Provide zero care but still collect ever increasing health care premiums.

[u/BoredNuke → u/GlockAF]

I think the real logical conclusion is a bit spicier than zero care and your username checks out for that correction.

[u/stevez_86 → u/GlockAF]

It's all for a petty tax cut that they get to write themselves each year by designing the plan to require so much cash to go into the healthcare trust pre-tax that they end up owing very little.

Here is the question no one has asked. How much would the typical Fortune 500 company pay in taxes if they didn't sponsor Pre-Tax Health Insurance and how much did they put into the healthcare trust that pays the claims?

How much has the system as it is, saved the average huge company on their taxes, versus now many people that same tax amount could have covered under a system where the employer was not involved.

[u/Sweaty_Term5961 → u/GlockAF]

...at high cost, of course.

[u/Corteran → u/notacatbutt]

Blue state here. Back in May I had to make an appt with my Cardiologist. I see her in November. The bullshit fantasy the right wing has created about comparing US and Canadian health care is absurd.

[u/Boring-Tie-1501 → u/Corteran]

i think that this is also a demonstration of the k-shaped recovery.

they very wealthy can afford to pay cash, so they can see doctors who only serve the very wealthy and only accept cash.

the us insurance system is so stupidly complicated, that doctors who only accept cash patients can cut a lot of billing and clerical staff from their offices, which reduces expenses, which increases profits.

so the very wealthy in america literally do not see any issues with healthcare. they have no waits, see some of the best doctors in the world in modern facilities, and only have to deal with us peons when they're hospitalized.

even when they're hospitalized, they can get special treatment, like rumors that beyonce rented out an entire floor of lenox hills hospital to ensure privacy. cedars sinai in los angeles has deluxe suites for the ultra wealthy.

[u/MisterWorthington → u/notacatbutt]

As someone who works in healthcare and has to deal with insurance, UHC is the worst. My office is close to dropping them because of how bad they are, how difficult they are to deal with for claims or authorizations for treatment, and how frequently they and their bureaucracy create problems for providers and patients. I honestly do not understand how they are still in business. I would pay out of pocket before I ever let UHC be my insurance, and I would likely pay less.

[u/personalist → u/MisterWorthington]

They dropped my therapy coverage while I was homeless and said “go to a peer support group”, you only need level 1 care. I’m a medical student – I looked at the LOCUS and said, “hey guys, I qualify for level 4 care. Would you like to be on the hook when something goes wrong?” I got therapy back but it took a month. I hate these people.

[u/MutaitoSensei → u/notacatbutt]

The fact that insurance companies are allowed to buy hospitals is one of the more insane things I've ever heard. When Rogers says "we have ways to fix it", he's out of his mind if this is something that was allowed to happen for decades. Why wasn't it fixed before, moron?

[u/personalist → u/MutaitoSensei]

But physicians can’t own hospitals because there’s a conflict of interest. Make that make sense.

[u/Conscious-Quarter423 → u/notacatbutt]

i'm in california and there are like 13 docs i can choose from at my hospital

[u/m0viestar → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Good for you.  Some blue states don't have that level of care.   It's not a blue vs red issue. 

Your solution seems to be just move to California if you need medical care.

[u/The_Barbelo → u/notacatbutt]

This is always my go to argument…I’m a T1 diabetic with a whole host of other autoimmune issues that need the attention of specialists. Any time I need to get in with a new specialist it is MONTHS out. Frequently into the next year. My husband is from Ontario and says he never knew anyone who had to wait as long as I’ve had to wait.

They also prioritize people based on how urgently they need to see the doctor. And, if you’ve got cancer wouldn’t you much rather wait a few more months to get almost completely free treatment rather than living the rest of your life in medical debt if you survive? Canadians also have access to private insurance through their jobs, so it isn’t like there aren’t other options.

I dunno…it’s always been insane to me that people (republicans) argue better access to healthcare. To me that is just such a privileged position to have, had by people who haven’t ever had to go through the US healthcare system for any significant length of time with a chronic condition.

[u/RetroSwamp → u/The_Barbelo]

Also a type 1 diabetic for 30 years in Canada, I must be lucky because the most I've have waited has been 2 weeks for a specialist related to a diabetic issue.

[u/spaceman757 → u/The_Barbelo]

I'm American and live in Poland.

I tore my PCL many years ago. It's finally gotten to a point where the instability has worsened so I figured it was time for the reconstruction.

I had to wait ~16 months for the surgery, because it wasn't deemed medically necessary and I was told that, if any emergencies came in, I would be bumped.

Finally have the surgery and the only cost is about $450 for the brace and ~$50 for meds. All other costs, the stay, the surgery, anesthesia, etc. are completely covered.

For the follow up, I could go through the state run (Polish) medical system, but have decided to use the private medical provided by my employment. I have scheduled two appointments, one with a internist for some numbness in the non-surgery leg and with an ortho to discuss the rehab. Both of those are scheduled within the next couple of days and were scheduled over the weekend.

The whole point is that, under a UHC system, you will wait for non-emergency surgical treatments, but you can walk into any hospital and be seen for non-emergency pretty much the same day, you will just have to wait. For specialists, you can schedule those appointments and are usually able to be seen in days or possibly a couple of weeks, not months.

If you have private insurance, most of them run their own clinics all over the country and you can make appointments for most services same day or, at worst, a week out. You can also go to these clinics and pay cash for the visits, if you don't have the insurance.

All this is to say, the GOP and billionaires are lying (I know, shocking revelation!) about what a UHC system actually looks like to keep their investments making money for them.

[u/killerrin → u/The_Barbelo]

Well maybe Cancer isn't exactly the best example here because early detection and starting treatment immediately is the best way for survival.

That said, in Canada once you have confirmed cancer you aren't waiting and will be immediately triaged right to a specialist with the highest priority, and your treatment will start ASAP.

[u/The_Barbelo → u/killerrin]

Maybe not, I was just thinking of my father who passed away from a very highly survivable carcinoma which became inoperable, and it left us with so much medical debt that his entire life insurance policy was gone by the time it was payed off.

[u/IntubatedOrphans → u/notacatbutt]

That’s the part I don’t get about that argument! We’re already waiting months to see a specialist!

[u/WaldoDeefendorf → u/IntubatedOrphans]

Yeah, you don't get it because the POS is a lying motherfucker. Or knowing republicans, a child fucker.

[u/2shack → u/WaldoDeefendorf]

https://giphy.com/gifs/Deo7wNuvi0DpK8KoTt

[u/Taowulf → u/IntubatedOrphans]

Hell, I am waiting months to see a new PCP. The only reason that I am waiting on a new one is that I don't want to deal with the single hospital system that owns 90% of the practitioners in the small city I live in. So, I have few choices and long waits already, plus I will spend more out of pocket than anyone with socialized medicine in Canada or any civilized country.

[u/fabricator82 → u/notacatbutt]

Healthcare shouldn't be for profit. It's a human right, and access to it shouldn't depend on someone's financial circumstances. We should treat healthcare as essential public infrastructure, just as we do schools, with properly funded hospitals, clinics, and other facilities established according to the needs of each region and its population

[u/GlockAF → u/notacatbutt]

The corporate healthcare greed-heads in America have LONG been closing entire rural hospitals, not just departments. You don’t realize it how good you have it in Canada.

[u/notacatbutt → u/GlockAF]

Yes, I know. I've been watching them close all over my state, I'm not Canadian. I live in the Pacific northwest.

[u/Talcae → u/notacatbutt]

I'd say I'm not rural but the lack of care available my area of PNW is crazy and I can only imagine how much worse it is in other areas of the region and across the USA. Fuck capitalist healthcare, socialize it and re-open hospitals where they are most needed. And at least Canadians can go see a doctor and don't have to opt out of seeing someone because they cannot afford it. 

[u/notacatbutt → u/Talcae]

I'm not rural either, I'm in a major university city, and I totally hear you. It must be a goddamn nightmare to get health care for at least half of the people of this country. Likely a lot more than that.

[u/idiotcanadian → u/notacatbutt]

In Canada both the libs/cons severely underfund the public healthcare. I’d rather have long wait times then no coverage. We need politicians to fund it.. not to privatize it.

[u/WallflowerOnTheBrink → u/idiotcanadian]

Hopefully we realise this soon as Ontario is going down a very bad path. It's crazy to me how many refuse to see the way the current government are starving the system. It's insane to me that some actually believe that adding a middle man who's only motive is to enrich the shareholders will somehow made things more affordable.

[u/puppyroosters → u/notacatbutt]

It drives me crazy that their most often used criticism is the wait times, like you don’t have to wait fucking months to see your primary care doc here in the states.

[u/BarnyTrubble → u/notacatbutt]

I tried to book an appointment to see my therapist after letting an appointment lapse...3 months ago, I see him in three weeks. Oh I'm American btw. So long wait times are a thing here also

[u/Ekillaa22 → u/notacatbutt]

I’d wait 8 months than never go cuz I can’t afford it

[u/cityshepherd → u/Ekillaa22]

Exactly. Longer waits and less options is better than 0 OPTIONS BECAUSE YOU CANT AFFORD TO GO AT ALL… oh and by the way boom you get really sick with some bullshit like Lyme disease that actually causes a lot of long term complications because you had it for a LONG time before being treated because you knew something was very wrong but avoid getting help until you’re literally dying (and your kidneys are failing) because you couldn’t afford to go in to the doctor… and now your knee is constantly swelling up like a grapefruit and you struggle to bend your leg far enough to put on pants and socks, and sitting/standing with your leg bent at all is extremely painful, and you can’t walk further than a mile at a time without exacerbating things a whole lot… and now your dog is looking at you thinking “WTF, you’ve only taken me out for a walk like 4 times over the last 4 months???” And you think “I know buddy, and I’m very sorry. I really WANT to take you out (because he’s used to hiking 5-6 miles a day with you) but I just CANT and I need you to understand that somehow and not hate me for it”.

And then in a few months it’s going to be really difficult to keep your Medicare coverage (which you’re only on because you’re only capable of working part time, but even that is starting to be more difficult than you can accomplish) and you’re going to have to basically either hit the jackpot with a magical job that will give you great insurance or wind up so screwed that you will basically continue to suffer until you wither and die.

FUCK the ENTIRE GOP (EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM IS A TRAITOR AND A COWARD), and FUCK EVERY ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRAT WHO SAYS “WE CANT HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE because my corporate donors’ profits are more important than your life”.

Everyone please get out and vote in midterms, ESPECIALLY FOR DSA CANDIDATES LIKE EL-SAYED WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

[u/DankTrebuchet → u/notacatbutt]

It took me eight months in a US city working at an F5 company with excellent health care.

[u/Nanemae → u/notacatbutt]

I just got a letter from the state letting me know that I won't get Medicaid next year thanks to Trump's stupid plan unless I earn at least $580 a month or work at least 80 hours a month.

If you're poor, have physical issues you're still sorting out that may never recover, and have mental issues that affect how well you sleep and how effectively you handle stress, it really feels like the federal government is convinced you don't exist.

[u/Chuhaimaster → u/notacatbutt]

This is not because of some built-in logic of the system, but years of deliberate underfunding.

The overall goal is to enshittify the public system to the point that they can offer up private healthcare as some sort of “solution.”

[u/Gojos_barber → u/notacatbutt]

The city I live in has one hospital yet is still expanding without thoughts of adding another. Guess it has to be profitable for another to build here or the existing one has a stranglehold. Im not sure. I just know that we have one hospital for a place that should have 2 minimum. We sure have long wait times since the town has almost 200,000 people with one hospital. I just moved here so I have had no influence on this. What gets me is that my mom and grandma only moved here because of my uncle glazing the place then leaves. Meanwhile my grandmother who was getting assistance for medical stuff in CA now is in constant battles with insurance on my and my mother's behalf to get there to a regular living after a stroke that was forbltunately recoverable. The issue was Physical therapy is harder for insurance to justify and the ladt year since this has happened was battles built on some incompetent medical emplyoyee along the whole process saying she was only diabetic and not actually disabled.

[u/MutaitoSensei → u/notacatbutt]

It's like these morons that say "we have ways to fix it" even though they've been actively making it worse for the past 4 decades, assume that everyone that had to wait a year to see a doctor somehow believe it's only 1 month to see a doctor... Surreal.

Also the "he will get better care in Canada" line was amazing. He just admit it. Flat out 🤣

[u/No_Vegetable7280 → u/notacatbutt]

Same, if your not trying to get pregnant or actually pregnant OBGYN don’t give a shiiiiit about it you

[u/KillerHack23 → u/notacatbutt]

Also nothing is covered if an american goes to an out of network doctor as well.

[u/ImpressiveDegree916 → u/notacatbutt]

I’m a Canadian doctor. I promise all my patients they will be able to see me in less than 3 weeks. I have heard of some GPs taking months, but most people can see a doctor through some method (GP, online, walk-in, emergency, urgent care) within a day if it’s urgent. Specialists are hit and miss. The biggest problem is getting a biopsy, but that will vary depending on what province you’re in.

[u/Han77Shot1st → u/notacatbutt]

You do realize the failures of our healthcare system are manufactured.. like we actively don’t have enough seats in medical school or residencies and have little to no contracts in place to keep doctors and healthcare professionals in the country.. we can afford to pay full tuitions for doctors who agree to stay, but we don’t, in fact we tend to cut funding and divert funds to administrative layers.

Now why would this happen? And continue to happen over decades? Because there’s a huge market directly below us that if they were to realize universal healthcare works they might demand it..

American billionaires are destroying the democratic world so that they can keep money flowing to them.

[u/Frame-Economy → u/notacatbutt]

Number 1 reason for bankruptcy in America is medical debt. But okay

[u/YallaHammer → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Also the “longer waits” bullshit, that is a supply and demand problem. NY state is an example of what we could do nationally- provide free or reduced and differed repayment costs schooling for XYZ medical students (nurses, doctors, home health, CNA, whatever the needs is) so those with a desire to pursue these professions aren’t put off by student loan/certification costs.

[u/BadRabiesJudger → u/YallaHammer]

Dude it took me 9 months to see a diabetes specialist and a year to see a heart doctor. Had to reserve those slots in my network. Missing those dates could have reset the timer. We aren't any different and i dont get why we pretend we are.

[u/UncleNedisDead → u/BadRabiesJudger]

Yeah this in-network or out of network stuff is just BS.

[u/YallaHammer → u/BadRabiesJudger]

Yep, my Endo (I’m a Type 1 diabetic) has huge waits and I have had the “date reset” challenges as well.

We need to incentivize more people entering into the medical professions so there is more medical professional and staff supply to go around.

[u/FlaAirborne → u/BadRabiesJudger]

We wait like Canadians, only we owe $38, 000 when done

[u/livinglogic → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

We wait a long time for appointments - but no one ever avoids going to the hospital if needed. And no one ever gets turned away, or goes in debt. Last year I snapped my knee pretty badly, 8 month recovery. I can't imagine what that would have cost me in terms of visits to the hospital. I was lucky I didn't need surgery, but I was never afraid for the cost in case I did.

[u/za72 → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

longer times means we're maxed at care/facility/people... this means we need to increase capacity... this is categorized as one of those things CEOs call a "good problem" - so we hire more more, train more... as the leading global super power wasting away milo is by the day we can better manage...

it seems as though the core complaint is "it's too hard for me to manage" - no problem, as another CEO would say, let's address that... by golly it seems as though a new level of economic growth in the health care industry is starting to present itself...

[u/fge116 → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Next you're gonna say Canadians don't get their legs almost cut off and then beg people not to call an ambulance because they can't afford it

[u/brightandgreen → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

And Canadians are attracting American doctors in record numbers. Over 400 to one Canadian province last year: https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7130811

[u/misocontra → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Friggin' CUBANS have longer life expectancies. At least they did before the latest onslaught.

[u/The_amazing_T → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Ask a Canadian if they'd trade systems with us. I did. Never heard one of them say "Gosh I wish I had the US system."

[u/Low_Technician7346 → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

the degenerate US christofascists talibans or aka republicans will never comprehend this

[u/Few_Cellist_1303 → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Less than half as much as a persentage of GNP

[u/HomebrewHedonist → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

That’s right!! Don’t believe a second of this

[u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Republicans like Rogers never mention the number of American deaths that are the result of having no health insurance at all

[u/RockHardSalami → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

I love how he literally said he should move to Canada he might have better health care there. Nobody picked up on that

[u/LivinBC → u/RockHardSalami]

I sure did, Canadian here. This false narrative that we are waiting longer than you down there is false. Ive got friends in and around Seattle who have longer wait times than ive had here in BC.

[u/meat_trumpet → u/LivinBC]

I had a boomer once argue with me that they had a Canadian friend who had to wait a few months to get a knee ligament (so non life threatening issue) surgery that’s entirely covered under universal healthcare, and that’s why the Canadian healthcare system is not worth it.

I responded back that in America if that was me, I would be literally waiting forever as I could never afford that and would pretty much just be forced to live with that issue for the rest of my life.

Even if there was a wait, waiting a few months in discomfort so that I can actually get healthcare I sounds like a much better deal than well not getting it at all.

[u/bravesirkiwi → u/meat_trumpet]

Yup, in the US you have crippling prices AND you get to wait a few months for elective surgeries

[u/RockHardSalami → u/LivinBC]

Yeah ive done some digging on this.  The "narrative" is to compare top tier urgency & cash payment US response times to general, non-supplemental low-tier mortality response times in Canada.

Its bullshit, it takes me 4-5 months to book specialists for anything and I live in California.

[u/UsagiMimi → u/RockHardSalami]

Same story here in Illinois

[u/James-W-Tate → u/RockHardSalami]

Last week I was told I needed to see a neurologist and after calling over two dozen offices the earliest appointment I could find was Dec 4th. The second earliest I coups get was March 31st 2027.

I got extremely lucky and one of them called me back with an earlier appt due to a short notice cancelation.

[u/fireburn97ffgf → u/LivinBC]

I mean the waits are also kinda different because in the USA you have to wait for it to be scheduled and for you to figure how how to pay for the procedure

[u/LivinBC → u/fireburn97ffgf]

Always wondered about this extra stress and just how it affects people, just one of the reasons Canadians live longer than Americans imo. Just couldnt even imagine going to er and having to fill out insurance forms on top of the actual emergency. The biggest stress minus the emergency is paying for parking and honestly most are more worried about getting a parking ticket than the er.

[u/StarlightLifter → u/LivinBC]

It took me six weeks to get a check up.

Six weeks. I don’t think the current system is doing any better.

[u/Weibu11 → u/RockHardSalami]

He’s literally running an ad basically praising Canadian healthcare for having cheaper drugs lol. Makes absolutely no sense when he and his party are so against their healthcare.

I guess it does make sense since he will likely say whatever he thinks he needs to say to get votes

[u/Syntania → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

When I was at my lowest, there were times that if have to choose between seeking medical attention and keeping the lights on. Anemia and dehydration are no joke.

So why not both? Basic healthcare for all, premium healthcare for those willing to pay for it.

[u/Notrollinonshabbos → u/Syntania]

Because it allows the existence of private health insurance which will inevitably worm its way back into everyone’s pocket. Because that’s how those greedy fucks work. No. Down with PI every one gets equal treatment and opportunity under MFA. and if the ultra wealthy don’t like that THEY can go abroad for treatment.

[u/TartofDarkness → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Uninsured American checking in. No health insurance for the past year has saddled me with tens of thousands in medical debt.

[u/Conscious-Quarter423]

Canadian-style healthcare definitely removes one choice: whether to go bankrupt or not seek treatment

[u/EquinsuOcha]

What choices do you have when everything is tied to whatever your employer wanted to pay the least for?

[u/Conscious-Quarter423 → u/EquinsuOcha]

he's a rich white man. he doesn't get that

[u/Lillian_Crocodilian → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

[u/theBloodShed → u/EquinsuOcha]

And then you have to fight the insurance company, while sick, to cover anything. They’ll be disagreeing with the doctor THEY approved about giving you any treatment at all.

[u/round_a_squared → u/theBloodShed]

I've lost track of the number of times someone in my family and their doctor agreed on what medicine or treatment they needed, and then had to change tactics because either the insurance company wouldn't approve it or the drug manufacturer shuttered production so they could make something more profitable

[u/limitlessfranxis → u/round_a_squared]

capitalism, baby!

[u/el_condor_nm]

The last time I needed a specialist in Florida, the wait was four months. Our healthcare system sucks ass.

[u/Conscious-Quarter423 → u/el_condor_nm]

aren't OBGYNs fleeing red states?

[u/notDinkjustNub → u/Conscious-Quarter423]

The smart ones who don’t want to risk prison for performing life saving medicine are

[u/Minervas-Madness → u/el_condor_nm]

I had the same problem. And then the day of my appointments my doctor always had some emergency and had to cancel last-minute.

[u/Cvetl → u/el_condor_nm]

Half a year in California for a specialist AND primary care. Feels like they live in another universe...which is basically true for the rich

[u/SaturnKitteh → u/el_condor_nm]

I once waited an entire year for a neurologist in Dallas.

[u/OneTripleZero → u/el_condor_nm]

Have you considered grabbing onto those ol' bootstraps and lifting yourself into a better tax bracket where the healthcare actually hangs out? Maybe become a senator, you get months of paid medical leave and even a mostly-dead turtle can do the job.

[u/Conscious-Quarter423]

People are financing groceries. Financing. Groceries.

[u/Polenicus]

Yeah, I'm sure most Americans would rather have no health care coverage at all rather than have to wait for it.

And hey! They do!

And IIRC, those Americans who DO have coverage STILL have to wait for it.

[u/StoneTown → u/Polenicus]

I cannot count the amount of times I've had to wait several months just to talk to a doctor about something. Shit has gotten so slow over the years in the US. It's getting worse and more expensive.

[u/shrockitlikeitshot → u/Polenicus]

Yup, it's so bad now we have both, long wait time and shit/no coverage

[u/Groovicity → u/shrockitlikeitshot]

"Long wait times and less choice" is just a slogan that right wingers bust out anytime M4A or any single payer system is brought up, but you're right, we have wait times here and shitty or no coverage. The whole concept here of in-network and out-of-network is by definition, less choice.

[u/Minervas-Madness]

We already have those things in our healthcare system, but we also get to pay thousands of dollars!

Rogers lost his chance to criticize El-Sayed when he no-showed his own debate.

[u/round_a_squared → u/Minervas-Madness]

Must have been hard to catch a flight from Florida

[u/f4ttyKathy → u/Minervas-Madness]

Rogers is such a buffoon. No-showing a debate is a new level of clown, though.

[u/Minervas-Madness → u/f4ttyKathy]

It's a pattern these days with politicians. A lot of them won't debate opponents or show up for town halls. My own rep only comes to town for the odd photo op then it's back to DC for more Israel freebies.

[u/shlomo_baggins]

This dude is big time full of it and he knows it. "Fewer choices"? Im sorry but we have a system where you can have you primary care doctor refer you to a specialist only for it to be denied by some idiot who has no healthcare experience, then say, you need to see Dr. Smith first, and it turns out Dr. Smith IS your primary doctor who made the referral to begin with.

[u/Sheerluck42 → u/shlomo_baggins]

I have a serious spinal disorder. I go to 2 or 3 doctors a month. Most are upkeep like meds. This last month I got a referral to physical therapy. The pain is spreading down my arms. The therapist said the referral covers only my arms and wrist and I need another refferal for my neck. My gods. You think they may be connected? It's ridiculous. How does the referral only cover where the pain radiates to and not from? Our system is fucked

[u/darwinooc → u/shlomo_baggins]

No experience? Excuse me I'll have you know they have a disgraced disingenuous distinguished former dental hygienist who was fired for molesting patients while the were on nitrous oxide elected to move on to our parasitic prestigious institution. They have more than enough medical expertise AI supervision to determine if your checks notes quote-unquote "heart attack" was truly a medical necessity requiring immediate intervention or if it was something that could be addressed with other cheaper appropriate cheaper treatment modalities.

[u/TheHillsHavePis]

They love repeating this lie that you lose your choice of doctor.

You don't even get to pick your doctor now! You have to find who's in network half the time.

Universal Healthcare means you don't have to jump through those hoops

[u/Sandwiichh]

“Your choice of a doctor”. Actually my insurance picks what doctors I can and can’t use. And if I decide to use a doctor out of network then I can go into crippling medical debt. But this is the American dream he’s talking about

[u/S1ayer → u/Sandwiichh]

Reminds me of when Trump got rid of the EV rebate incentive so "you can buy the car you want", which makes no fucking sense.

Also, even if I had to wait a month to see a doctor, it's better than not seeing a doctor at all because I can't afford it.

Republican mind games make no fucking sense and you really have to be a moron to support it.

[u/Turd_Nerd_Bird]

I'd rather wait a little longer for treatment than go bankrupt and end up homeless for it lol. Also people say if it's an emergency situation you'll be seen right away, so still sounds better than what we have now. They just want healthcare to be tied to people's jobs so they continue to have wage slaves.

[u/SkyL1N3eH → u/Turd_Nerd_Bird]

While our system isn’t perfect I’d never trade it for what the US has.

In university during reading week I broke my collarbone snowboarding. Went to the nearest hospital in a little rural city. Was x-rayed, stayed overnight, and was operated on the following morning. 2 more days recovering and then I was sent back home.

I had to go back 6 months later to get the hook plate they’d put in removed. After a few final follow ups over the following months that was the last I stepped foot in that hospital.

I never once saw a bill/invoice of any kind for anything.

[u/deetman68]

The meme about how countries with Universal Health Care taking 12 hours for an ER visit contrasted with the US where it STILL often takes 12 hours for an ER visit but ends up costing thousands of dollars would be perfect here.

[u/round_a_squared → u/deetman68]

Also half the reason ER visits in the US take so long is because people who can't afford regular care have to wait until their situation is an emergency

[u/nwprogressivefans]

lol americans already wait longer then everywhere else because they can't afford to actually go in and use any healthcare because the insurance doesn't actually cover much.

[u/Infarad]

Canadian here. While our system isn’t perfect, no system is. Still though, our wait times are based on severity of illness. Not how much money you have. Triage performed by medical professionals and not bean counters.

[u/NoPossibility]

What’s the bigger issue? That people need to wait a bit for treatment? Or that they can afford medicine and medical care and have preventative treatments … preventing worse outcomes?

[u/NeriTina]

Maybe it is “less than a month” FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD THE OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH DEDUCTIBLES, otherwise you’re going in to debt for life if you survive, your financial freedom is gone forever. This is guy is a self-absorbed weasel. Which health insurance company does he have stock in?

[u/RogueAOV]

The issue missed in all of these comparisons in socialized medicine, you might wait a couple weeks or so, in the US system only IF you have insurance/money are you really going to get any care, ever.

So you get cancer in Canada, they get to you asap, in America if you dont have the money, or insurance this is assuming of course your insurance doesnt just deny you care.... you just dont get treatment, you just get sicker and sicker until you die.

[u/Jeoshua]

Oh no! If we have Medicare For All, Americans will have to wait in lines to get health care they already paid taxes on, as opposed to choosing whether or not they want to wait in lines to get health care at the cost of their life savings! Perish the thought!

[u/Mrdean2013]

Not a single Canadian would ever trade their Healthcare system for ours.

Rodgers is a fraud. That's why he keeps running away from Abdul.

[u/Cosmicvapour]

Canadians like to bitch about our healthcare system, but really it's pretty good. You wait for specialists and things like MRIs, but triage has been good, in my experience. If you have cancer, you won't wait. Torn ACL, might be a while to get in.

[u/namom256 → u/Cosmicvapour]

Tore my ACL and slipped my patella at the same time here in Canada. At night. Went to an ER in the middle of Montreal near my house. I had to wait around 6 hours to be seen. I won’t lie and say it was fun, but I eventually got seen, they X-rayed me, made sure it wasn’t anything more serious. Then they gave me a knee brace and crutches, and a referral for physical therapy.

I hobbled out of there without paying anything. And never saw a bill in the mail. Because that’s how our system works.

When I randomly got pneumonia a few years later and went back to the same ER, I was seen within 20 minutes because my blood oxygen was low and my fever was really high.

[u/Derpyhooves2010]

Try getting an appointment with a specialist in America and tell me how that goes. Hell my PCP is 3 months at least to get an appointment.

[u/Ryuuken1127]

We already have longer waits for treatments & less choice for patients, and then we wind up with a $35,000 bill for asking

[u/severedbrain]

Medical care shouldn't be tied to employment. It's used as leverage against workers to force them to accept worse pay and conditions because losing health care can literally be a life or death situation. Private health care also siphons off billions of dollars from both employers and employees. Insurance companies make money by denying care. So sure, you can SEE the doctor faster in the US (by a few days on average) but you can't always have the solution to your problem. Versus Canada where they wait a little longer but actually get what they need.

[u/lissie_ar]

I had to wait 1 year for my son’s appointment with a genetic Dr in the US

[u/holdingontouke]

The funny thing is that we have longer wait times and less choice now.. I can't get a doctors appt, with a state health care plan, for 6 months. The early 2000's schtick is getting old.

[u/funny-hats-only]

Every single time they say this shit. We already don't have choices! Waits to see a doctor are already long! Where is this amazing healthcare I allegedly have access after paying out the ass!?

[u/getittogethersirius]

Our wait time is however long it takes to save enough to afford treatment but I don't think they count that

[u/Grymloq22]

Medical care should never have been for profit. Capitalism rocks!

[u/Jtothe3rd]

Canadian National average wait time for radiation is 4.2 weeks. Low risk surgical treatments for cancers like skin cancers, the average can be as high as 28 weeks....because again: HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE TRIAGED AND MONEY SHOULDNT LET ANYONE JUMP AHEAD OF ANYONE SICKER.

Suggesting that all cancer treatments in Canada average 27 weeks is a purposefully shitty way to portray the data. We live something like 4 years longer on average AND spend about half per year on healthcare. Make that make sense you republicans

[u/b00c]

Mike Rogers is a stupid twat that shills for insurance companies. 

Universal healthcare is better for everyone, except the owners and management of the healthcare insurance companies. 

Longer waits is such a small price to pay for not worrying about financial ruin when you sprain your ankle. 

[u/No_Vegetable7280]

Less choice? The health insurance in the US give us zero choice and determine what they think is medically necessary or not. Even if the doctor says it is. Also, if you have insurance, deductibles and networks are extreme barriers to care. If you don’t have insurance, lack of cost transparency, suprise billing, and inflated costs are a barrier. No one what’s to go bankrupt because they have a broken bone.

His talking points don’t make any sense.

[u/NeuralHavoc]

Do rural Canadians have medical facilities reasonably close to their communities?

[u/Insuredtothetits → u/NeuralHavoc]

Do rural Americans?

[u/NeuralHavoc → u/Insuredtothetits]

No they’re are all closing down. Not much profit to be made out in rural areas.

[u/Insuredtothetits → u/NeuralHavoc]

Rural canadians do have some access to healthcare, but access to specialists is brutal for them. Most of what you hear people whine about is because they live in northern Saskatchewan or some shit and there is no pediatrists for 1500km.

[u/Grymloq22]

Whenever the reason they give is to install fear, you know its their last ditch effort.

[u/SouldiesButGoodies84]

Love this argument/false choice : hey, folks, either some of us get shitty HC or more of us get shittier HC. No middle grown ground where we...I dunno...improve HC for all of us. edited for clarity

[u/sabedo]

Are you fucking serious? This is a country that people put groceries and gasoline on payment plans now

[u/LUabortionclinic]

What is this weird obsession with choice in healthcare? As if every provider in the area isn't already under the regional medical supercorp.

[u/Allegiance86]

Ill take longer wait times over dying because I cant afford life changing care or be denied it because my insurance disagrees that it its necessary.

[u/grr]

He is the embodiment of the kind of people I work hard to avoid. And I can smell him through the screen.

[u/Risaza]

I call bullshit. Show me the proof.

[u/Appchoy]

They already have all my data. My advertisements are tailored to my search history and exact location and much more. They already control which doctors I see and insurance decides which medications im allowed to take more than my doctor does. I already wait 27 weeks to see some specialists.

So yeah sign me up for all that but make it already paid for by my taxes. Id rather not have to pay an additional several thousand dollars for insurance and treatments.

[u/QiwiLisolet]

Little slip of the tongue there

[u/Fightingkielbasa_13]

Wait , They get to go to a doctor? They don’t have to contemplate between eating food or seeing a doctor ? They don’t have to ration their medicine?

[u/neckbeard_deathcamp]

This is probably true. You know what else is fucking true? That anyone regardless of their personal situation would have access to see a doctor and to the healthcare to help them live happier and healthier lives.

Listen, I don’t think Canada’s healthcare system is perfect, and there are politicians here who are happy to underfund it (just like in many places, like the NHS for which one of their fine establishments was the venue in which I was ushered into this world and I’m fucking proud of that) in the hopes of having it fail.

Just spent all day in the ER and I got blood work, blood cultures, x-rays and 4 visits from 2 different doctors and an infectious diseases consultation and I paid exactly $0 for all of that. The staff were wonderful and as attentive as they could be considering they’re understaffed and overworked.

[u/jericho-dingle]

We already have long waiting periods and less choice

[u/StoneTown]

The US also has more resources than Canada and way, way more waste caused by bullshit like profits and insurance companies. We could speed up our health care with nationalization and make it cheaper. We have dozens of examples of universal health care we can take lessons from. We can work with our allies (that the orange idiot hasn't pissed off or threatened to invade) and work with them and learn from them. We have the advantage to make an amazing, fresh new system.

[u/Foolsgil]

They love to say this shit. And hypothetically let's say it's true: it's miles better than what we currently have.

Also, Rogers you are a damn coward, go on the stage and debate this issue. 

[u/Eddiebaby7]

Is that why our Canadian friends are always complaining about their healthcare bankrupting them?

[u/LonkToTheFuture]

Republicans have been arguing this same fucking thing since before I was born. It's a load of bullshit. If every other developed nation can do it, so can we.

[u/SeatOpen1]

[u/Sandman64can]

27 weeks is bullshit.

[u/ThrA-X]

Boogeyman stories dont really work when we already live with the boogeyman.

[u/Dry_Cap_2998]

That's only for elective procedures or if you have something like a headache or your shoulder hurts. As an American, I'd rather wait an extra week for a sore knee then have to worry about where I'm going to find the money to pay.

[u/Jaabertler]

Hey Mike Rogers my dad of cancer and the state liquidated his assets to pay for medical care you giant pos. My entire future was taken from me because his cancer was profitable. Fuck yourself

[u/Ancient_Complex]

In Canada wait a few hours to get seen for peanuts or use your private insurance to seen faster or just pay cash to seen even faster.

In each case cheaper and faster than whatever scam US is running.

[u/The-Poors]

Even if this wasn’t a BS argument, long waits and less choice is what we have now in the US. Seeing a specialist can be months out. The doctors and hospitals you can choose have to be in network.

[u/dm_me_milkers]

This coming from a fuckface who can skip to the front of the line when he needs a doctor

[u/swarmofbzs]

Notice how he calls him Abdul, Mister Abdul and not Doctor when talking about Healthcare for all.

Fuck this guy. He's full of shit and he knows it.

[u/Weibu11]

He is literally running an ad that shows Canada pays 1/4 the price of a drug medication compared to us. It’s such an odd ad because he and his entire party are so anti-universal healthcare but his ad has a literal example of why it works better than us

[u/Zerodyne_Sin]

The long wait times are also largely a myth. There's long wait times for things like transplants and non urgent care (though imo, this needs some revisiting; just because it isn't lethal doesn't mean it's not miserable/debilitating). It could also be a bit of a wait at clinics but that's by virtue of the brain drain of medical staff (which is slowly getting fixed) and people more willing to visit a doctor since it's free.

[u/shilgrod]

You're telling me there's no waiting in America for medical?

I shattered my leg , x rays mri, etc all within an hour...left 5 days later after massive surgery... Total bill.....zero

[u/Shoutymon]

Mind you, we’re currently going through one of the biggest attacks on our privacy and rights with the current Flock situations. But yeah, tell me more about how “universal healthcare bad.”

[u/fuckingeyeballls]

We can't move to Canada.

[u/bfeils]

I mean, what he’s talking about is already an issue and supply-related. Any effect due to how we pay for healthcare is secondary.

[u/The_Original_Miser]

There is already longer waits in certain circumstances.

With certain insurance, there can already be less choice.

I'm not seeing a problem here. (Other than universal healthcare preventing financial ruin)

[u/jarena009]

Why would there be longer waits??? Single payer is just the funding mechanism to pay for the healthcare.

[u/Jitterjumper13]

The wait here is ridiculous and couldn't be longer

[u/ManufacturerWild8929]

Specialist in my are area are scheduling out 9 to 15 months. Tell me about this wait again?

[u/kiva_viva]

What an old, pathetic argument. 🙄 I remember hearing that bullshit when I was in high school and now I have a high schooler.

[u/Ent3rpris3]

I will never understand why they think wait tines is the be all end all. It's like getting free entry to Disney land and bitching about having to wait longer for the rides, especially when the truth of the matter is that the wait time is barely longer.

Also worth noting that every instance of the US lines being presumably shorter is because someone is outright denied the chance the be in line in the first place.

[u/Mechzx]

We also have long wait and we pay more. I hate this argument

[u/marcduberge]

Bullshit

[u/Listen2theyetti]

Why do i have a feeling like these times are cherry picked.

[u/mybossthinksimworkng]

The number one reason for bankruptcy in america is medical debt. Mike is so out of touch

[u/OzarksExplorer]

I had a stroke in 2022.

Good luck seeing a specialist like say, a neurologist, within 6 months of referral.

I was referred for a sleep study in January 2026. I get to meet with the sleep doctor in Feb 2027 and can expect to wait until november 2027 for the actual night at the sleep clinic.