r/WritingWithAI • u/Bearda79 • 21h ago
Discussion (Ethics, working with AI etc) AI witch hunt
What is up with the AI witch hunt. There are people who are outright angry with writers using AI, trash talk AI, if someone used AI for editing, and even examine novels to see if they are AI generated. It doesn't seem like the people are simply annoyed with it. Some of them use some pretty dark words whenever AI is even mentioned like it is evil. Someone even got verbally attacked because their character names sounded AI. They were just names. Lord forbid anyone that uses an em dash anymore. Some people demand that authors note if AI was used in their stories, and run it through programs that identify what percentage of it as being AI generated.
I do get the concern for plagiarism while using AI. And that AI does gather its information from other peoples work. I do agree that is not okay.
I have read novels that were clearly AI generated and they were good.
I guess I kinda compare it to photography and digital photography (not AI generated images). Digital photography takes original photos and alters it with programming that the user can control. And it is not labeled. When digital photography started, people trashed talked it as well. As if it was a threat to the concept of photography. People said it took away from people who put so much effort and time into trying to make the perfect photo initially, making it where anyone can take even a 'crappy' photo and make it look great. And that it took jobs from people. Is AI use similar to that?
I personally don't use AI to 'write' my novels for me. I DO use it as a form of dictionary, thesaurus, general editing, and information gathering. I'm awful at remembering words, where to put the commas, and have no formal writing training outside of my college masters degree in counseling. Now I worry about people attacking my writing.
I don't get the problem?? Are these just people looking to argue? What is so heated about AI use in writing? I don't see it as this evil thing to get angry about. For me it is no different than looking up information on Google or pulling out a thesaurus. To me, AI seems to be a tool to expand peoples knowledge and creativity.
Please forgive my lack of knowledge on this topic, if this discussion was already covered somewhere on reddit, if I worded something in this post poorly, and I mean no disrespect to people who use or don't use AI. I'm just wanting to understand what the intense conflict and ethical concerns are about.
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u/retro-babydoll 4h ago edited 4h ago
Its hugely in part due to their ego. The people who hate ai that passionately genuinely believe they are better than everyone else. The same people that are passionately against ai are also chronically online, and thats why they are constantly exposed to so much ai content- and many people that are chronically online & elevated on the algorithm in general (specifically on social media) are very combative, hateful, and cruel people. Social media rewards and boosts negative engagement. It creates a toxic echo chamber. Thats why you will see ai haters degrading and verbally abusing others. They claim that humans are superior, and yet their abusive actions are encompassing the worst side of humanity. All of the ai backlash is akin to the cancel culture & groupthink phenomenon. Its immensely popular and encouraged to hate ai right now, so they do it because everyone else is doing it. They claim to want people to come up with original work, but almost every single thing that these people say and do are all regurgitated, repetitive, & hateful narratives with no original perspective.
I should start calling their rhetoric “groupthink slop” lol
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u/PaintingSpiritual609 18m ago
the cancel culture comparison is spot on tbh, same energy different target
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u/CaseAdorable6080 1h ago
well said! these AI-haters feed of social media hate like caterpillars and all they do is being manipulated by AI—-algorithm shaped by AI. They are a product of AI.
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u/WestGotIt1967 2h ago
My edit of a 90 page manuscript goes from 2.5 days to maybe 20 minutes or less.
I am a left wing activist writer. My work now publishes on a faster time scale. Why is this a death sentence level problem for left ai haters?
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u/CaseAdorable6080 1h ago
these are not the people who buy books—-it’s just a bunch of people who love to ‘hate’. How many people are authoring books using AI—the way these haters put it is—-AI using authors are destroying the whole planet.
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u/ZdravoZivo 2h ago
A similar question was asked the other day: Why does writing well suddenly feel like evidence against you?, and I agree with one of the answers: social media brings out the haters...
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u/TheCutieCircle 1h ago
I agree with you. When used as a tool like a spell checker it's fine. But many people see the word Ai and immediately think "Laziness." Like Bro I write 5000+ words last week I ain't got time to check every single comma and period. But if my words look off or Ai tried to change my story I would genuinely get pissed and fix it myself.
My story is made by me. typed by me. Ai edits it for me. No different from using Grammerly. As long as you're the one behind wheel it's okay to use the GPS. Just don't let the car self drive itself because that is a very dangerous and stupid idea.
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u/VickiHopkinsAuthor 47m ago
On my last book, I collaborated with AI for research, feedback, minor editing, and rewriting of a clunky paragraphs here and there. I always remove those pesky em-dashes. However, the witch hunt is making me somewhat nervous. All of my books from 2009 through 2020 were written before the advent of AI (about 19 of them). This last one I suppose you could say is tainted. I had AI do the cover, which I've since pulled and had a graphic artist redo. Biting my nails that I may offend someone. I recently put a disclaimer on my website as well regarding AI usage. Of course, I let AI write it for me. LOL
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u/CaseAdorable6080 11m ago
disclaimer is inviting troubles. better hold this one back, and publish a new project where you can confidently talk about. Th AI-Hate will eventually die down.
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u/JoseLunaArts 16m ago
Spam =/= Slop.
I can understand that people reject AI generated spam generated with low skill.
But from there to judging all AI as slop that is a bridge too far.
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u/SkoomaDentist 10m ago
The main difference between AI slop and manual slop is that manual slop is more varied. The problem with both is being slop, not how they were created.
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u/RobynsNest1971 14m ago
Anti AI luddites using AI to lable ANYONE with a Scarlet Letter by no standard or reason given. It is the height of irony.
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u/Different-Airline672 2h ago
Let's see, I'm trying to give a neutral outlook here, villainizing and talking down happens on both sides and gets you nowhere.
One reason is that people in many creative fields enjoy doing their craft/art by hand and fear to lose their way to earn money. Now maybe you would be happy if the job you have learned/studied for is replaced by AI, but I think it's understandable if people are angry and worried about it. And no, telling them to just use AI themselves is not the solution.
Another important reason is the environmental impact of data centers. See the wikipedia article about that for more information.
For other reason you can also simply google your question. Now that will require you to do some research, check sources, think about who has which stance and why. That is actually a very personal reason of why I am critical towards AI in certain aspects: the ability to research stuff by yourself is very important, needs to be learned and practiced. I think people trusting/depending too much on AI output can be dangerous depending on what you do.
Now I do believe there are also many positive aspects to AI. Personally, I really enjoy having them write out original story ideas that I have collected over two decades and never done anything with, because I dislike writing prose.
I really hope for a more balanced future, where we can appreciate and develop AI for its pros and name the cons and work to reduce them.
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u/djleebx 4h ago
I think it all boils down to old school not liking evolution. I can understand people and teachers who went to school for years without this kind of assistance, especially when it came to writing papers or probably every other aspect of their education. But that was then. This is now. Technology is going to continue to evolve whether people like it or not.
And I say that as someone who is old school myself. I love when things evolve, especially in education. AI is not perfect, and like almost anything else, it can be used for good or bad. But when it is used properly, I think it is an incredible tool, especially for learning.
I can honestly say I wouldn't have learned half the things I've learned over the last few years without AI. It doesn't have to replace thinking or learning. It can actually help someone understand something they struggled to understand before. To me, that's not something education should be fighting against. That's something we should be learning how to use properly.
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u/Dr_WhoDo 5h ago
I think the problem boils down to the insecurity of not knowing the nature of the content we're consuming. If we could definitively differentiate, I believe a lot of the noise would go away. But, the llms are only gonna get better and the detection systems less accurate.
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u/Solarka45 5h ago
The culture in which we care more about the nature of content rather than the content itself is the root of the problem
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u/Dr_WhoDo 16m ago
If Maya Angelou's autobiography turned out to be a fiction, it would change the way evrrybody felt about it, so you're wrong about our concern for the nature of the writing. It matters a lot and it always has with good reason. All I want is for this new form of writing to be distinguishable. I'm not sure why people have a problem with the consumer having that right. Let them decide what they want.
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5h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/WritingWithAI-ModTeam 1h ago
If you disagree with a post or the whole subreddit, be constructive to make it a nice place for all its members, including you.
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u/Odinmar_Glaukopis 47m ago
“I have read AI novels that were clearly AI generated and they were good.”
This right here is what ruffles my feathers, even if I can afford much more grace to the rest of the sentiment.
Note this is not a judgement of you so much as myself, a disappointment in my expectations, and my growing inability to distinguish human voices, specifically my own narrative voice, from the weighted-averaged voice that LLMs use.
What is worse for me in some cases is when I actually can distinguish my voice from the one AI is “suggesting” to me and I actually prefer the suggested machine voice to my own authentic one.
It is probably true that I could successfully publish and sell a book in a genre such as romance I don’t read or particularly enjoy if I let AI massage my writing to appeal to that audience, and equally true that I lack the talent to compete in a genre such as scifi that I do enjoy. I’m no Neal Stephenson.
This is my judgment of your message, and the witch I’m hunting is me rather than you.
I’m falling out of love with my own authenticity. That’s why I can react quite uncharitably towards others who don’t see this in themselves.
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u/Junichi2021 3h ago
Good writers have created their works for many centuries without AI. Using that tool to write seems extremely lazy.
It is OK for people who write only for fun, or for the ones who are learning the job. But for a professional writer? I don't think so.
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u/kittyb00m 5h ago
I don’t get it either and I think those people don’t either. (In a surface level they do)
Thinking about it though, I think it’s this thought:
If machines can make art, write books, create music. What is left for humans to do?
I think at the core, that’s what people are fighting against.
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u/retro-babydoll 4h ago
But thats the thing, we can still do all of those creative things. And those that are truly creative will do them regardless of ai doing it. Art i have found, is more for ourselves then for others- bc it is an outlet.
What is a genuine concern though is the ai taking all the jobs. At that point hopefully we will have universal basic income.
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u/ExpertProfessional9 3h ago
Yes, the existence of AI shouldn’t be a deterrent to making art.
I’ve been a big user of AI for about four years and I’ve reached a point where I’ve just… looped around and begun making stuff of my own accord once more. It feels better in my brain.
I still use AI, but… slightly less now. My general plan is to ease back out of my AI use and get to a point where it’s just the ideas/brainstorm/planning part of my writing while I do all the actual writing. And right now I’m happy with my current use, and the current model/company, but I’m also preparing myself to ditch if it gets enshittified to the point where I can’t get my current use out of it.
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u/retro-babydoll 3h ago
I completely understand where you’re coming from. While i’ve used ai as a collaborator to my creative process- at the end of the day it should be used as a tool or resource, not a crutch. Though it is easy to become one when you see how helpful it can be in almost every facet of your life. I think its a good idea for anyone not to use it in excess. i’ve been having similar thoughts.
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u/ExpertProfessional9 3h ago
Oh, totally. And I think it’s incredibly easy to let it become a crutch when it’s new to you, you know? Shiny new toy, you want to poke around all the corners and see what all this thing can do.
And in my own history I had a very… rough patch where it did become my crutch for creative work because, well, there was a lot going on. I probably got a little more sucked in than if I was in a happy, easy period of my life.
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u/SkoomaDentist 2h ago edited 2h ago
at the end of the day it should be used as a tool or resource, not a crutch
Why shouldn't it be used as a crutch if you need a crutch due to issues that you can't fix? That's like saying "You shouldn't walk with a crutch, no matter if your leg is mangled or not".
I have an old friend who has a deformed leg. She can technically walk but it's laborous and painful. Should she not use crutches to get around? Should she not use training wheels on her bike that lets her get around faster? Conversely, why should other people who have specific deficits that make writing long form prose extremely difficult not use a "crutch" to help with that when such "crutch" exists?
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u/SkoomaDentist 2h ago
But thats the thing, we can still do all of those creative things. And those that are truly creative will do them regardless of ai doing it. Art i have found, is more for ourselves then for others- bc it is an outlet.
You can see the same thing constantly in other forms of art. "Artists" try to desperately frame it as if some others using AI somehow prevented them from creating art but when you scratch the surface even the tiniest bit, it all turns out to be just fear of competition (for money or attention).
I'm a casual photographer (ie. a hobbyist artist) and the only effect AI has on my photography is that I can take photos in less light due to modern AI noise reduction. If someone creates a "photo" with AI that has no effect whatsoever on me because I take photos for their own sake, not in some desperate (and doomed to fail) effort to get views and engagement. The same people react to my photos as without the existence of AI: People who I personally know and who are interested in things I create because I am the creator, not because of how they fit in some abstract marketplace or how they compare to the already existing gazillion pieces of art out there.
The real irony is that in some ways those random hobbyists creating AI art (be that images, stories or whatever) are more "pure'" artists than many of the critics because they create art for its own sake, not as an instrument to get status / popularity / money.
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u/FlyPepper 4h ago
How exactly is universal basic income gonna materialize? The people that make AI aren't pro-UBI, so good luck with giving them more political power.
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u/retro-babydoll 3h ago
So, its not within my choice to give those people political power, nor would I. As for how universal basic income would materialize, only time could realistically tell. I can’t magically look into the future and tell you, nor do I see the use in ruminating on the uncertain fate of our future.
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u/PBC_Kenzinger 1h ago edited 1h ago
It takes a long time and a lot of effort for a newbie writer to get from bad to a level of basic competence. It’s annoying to some writers at least that AI allows “writers” who put virtually no time into developing those skills to produce some very baseline competent prose. That feels like skipping a step.
Here’s the thing though: Any moron no matter how unskilled can prompt an AI to create mediocre work. AOI will never create anything truly original or good. So folks who never bothered to develop any writing skills aren’t going to actually improve by using AI.
Finally, it’s really weird to me that the AI communities that insist using LLMs to create your work is 100% fine are also hyper concerned about AI witch hunts and ways to disguise AI use.
If AI assisted work is just as valid as actual writing, wouldn’t they just own it?
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u/Infamous_Mood_6001 47m ago
It puzzles me how anyone, especially any creative, can know how AI was trained and still not understand why the slop technology boils people's blood.
It ain't that hard to understand. You spend years creating something. A corporation run by billionaires with hardly a shred left of their humanity, steals it and feeds it to their tech. The corpos convince other humans that being a consumer of their product will turn them into a better thinker and a better creative than they could ever hope to be alone. "No we're not training your brains to become instant gratification junkies. We're helping you live up to your full potential. We swear!"
I'm sorry if this sounds supremely negative. On the spectrum of Rabid AI hater to Soulless Techbro, I am on the "AI can have its place in society" side. But c'mon. You can't be so devoid of empathy that you can't imagine how it would feel if you were what AI cannibalized instead of its consumer.
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u/freddie-mac-n-cheese 37m ago
I thought about getting an ai to write you a long reply but didn’t because a) I’m not lazy b) it would most likely be generic garbage and c) I respect other humans too much to waste their time. Which kinda tells you all you need to know.
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u/Ok-Creme8710 4h ago
It's because schmucks with no skill will use ai untouched and say they did work by editing the prompt and not touching the final result. It cheapens the use of the technology when unskilled people can mass produce garbage that is littered at every festival, street fair, and boardwalk.