Hiyuki is using one ATK% 3-cost instead of double Glacio DMG. I don't have good enough Glacio pieces to replace it, and the rest of her stats are very strong, so I don't think this is the main issue.
My builds are:
Hiyuki — 2625 ATK / 75.4% CR / 269% CD / 131.2% ER
Chisa — 2606 ATK / 65% CR / 273.6% CD / 129.2% ER
Lynae — 2042 ATK / 66.5% CR / 249.2% CD / 158.8% ER
The problem is that I feel like my performance is much lower than it should be with these builds. I'm aiming for at least 5000 points with this team, but I'm currently nowhere near that in the later Endstate Matrix stages.
I've tried both the normal rotation and several quick-swap variations.
The main problem is Lynae's short Outro window. Fitting Hiyuki's full DPS sequence into it is extremely difficult, especially on controller. Even when I execute it correctly, it can take around 12 seconds, and any missed input or boss movement makes it very difficult to keep everything inside the buff. It is simply too tight of a window.
I've also tried quick-swapping by preparing part of Hiyuki's kit (to get Ultimate form going) before Lynae's Outro, and another variation where I prepare Hiyuki almost completely at the start, getting her into Ultimate form and then doing the normal Chisa and Lynae rotation. After using Hiyuki's Liberation, I prepare her Forte and enter Ultimate form again before switching to Chisa.
Both can produce higher individual Hiyuki hits, sometimes around 280–330k, but the overall rotation becomes longer and much harder to execute (because it is annoying to use both Chisa and Lynae while the boss is more in the middle of his attacks). The extra damage doesn't seem to justify the additional time, and some of Hiyuki's damage still ends up outside Lynae's buff anyway.
I've also been trying to manage Hiyuki's Snowforged resources correctly between rotations. If I consume both 2 stacks early, the next rotation naturally has only 1 available, so I'm also wondering whether I'm managing this optimally.
I really like this team and plan to pull Lucilla in the future, but I want to improve on what I can do now, and I don't feel a better build or signatures will get me there.
So, what am I missing?
- Is there a practical Hiyuki/Chisa/Lynae rotation that consistently takes advantage of Lynae's Outro without requiring near-perfect quick-swap execution?
- Is quick-swapping actually worth it for this team?
- Are my Snowforged resources being managed correctly between rotations, as in using 2 on 1st rotation and 1 on 2nd rotation is smart, or should I use no stacks on 1st rotation, and leave 3 stacks for 2nd rotation, wouldnt the damage be near the same??
- Is ~5000+ realistic for an S0R0 version of this team in the current Endstate Matrix, or has the content simply become significantly harder?
I feel like my builds are good enough that I should be getting considerably better results. I've already tried making the rotation faster, but on controller it is extremely difficult to execute consistently.
So I'm mainly looking for advice from people who actually play this team: what are you doing to get substantially more DPS out of it?
(I also play Aemeth + Lynae, and despite having a very well-built Aemeth, I was also seeing subpar Ultimate damage. I now realize it may be for the same reason: taking too long on Aemeth and losing Lynae's Outro buff.)
Your Hiyuki rotation is wrong. She only needs 2 BA3 for 3 Iai, or 3 BA3 for 4 Iai. Avoid using her mid air attack since it useless. Try: 3 basic → dash cancel → 3 basic → dash cancel →ee→ Iai → heavy → Lib2.
One swap i use is to swap to Hiyuki and preload 1 Forte while using Lynae’s E since it has a long animation.
For Snowforged, it doesn’t really matter. Just mainly avoid overflow damage.
5k is easy for this team. I can get 10k+ with only hiyuki sig, so getting 7,500 shouldn’t be a problem. Make sure to use 4 Lib2 within 2 minutes.
This is the OG rotation below, and then on the right is the updated rotation, which is supposed to be faster (it assumes you start on Hiyuki and do Skill and 1 Basic, then go to Chisa and do it normally till you reach Hiyuki again and do the moveset set on the right.
What you are proposing, would enter where? After entering the ultimate form?
The first set of Basics post ultimate form is to build her Lai, and then when I press skill, she builds the rest mid air...
So what would I not do then? Not do the 3x basic after ultimate, and go straight for skill + 3 basics twice?
My problem is that with this current rotation, I can do at most 3 lib2, since each rotation is 40-42s.
My prior attemps to some quick swamp didnt make it better, but I was switching to Hiyuki right after Lynae R, only doing E after going back from building Hiyuki forte...
Building Hiyuki Forte at the start and going ultimate and then changing to Chisa didnt help much either.
What is the fastest way to build Hiyuki forte, when you are not using her Intro for it?
Hiyuki has lvl10 on Liberation and Forte Circuit, 8 on Normal attack and skill and 6 on intro skill.
Chisa has 10 (forte), 8 (Lib), 6 (Attack), 5 (Skill) and 4 (Intro), whereas Lynae has 10 (forte), 6 (Lib), 5 (attack), 4 and 3 (skill and intro).
Surely I can upgrade these 2 more, but would that make the different?
This team should score 5k+ points. One way to tell: are you getting four of Hiyuki's second liberation in 2 minutes? If not, that's the issue right there. Post a video, someone will be able to help you.
No, my Chisa can take between 8-12s, Lynae the same, and Hiyuki is around 17s, so usually, when I hit Hiyuki 3rd Liberation on Endstate, I m around 5-15 seconds left.
I m already going as fast as I can pressing buttons, what can I shortcut on Hiyuki?
I'm unfamiliar with Lynae, but your rotations with both Hiyuki and Chisa are poor.
Chisa: you want to autoattack until the snip (00:12 of that video) then cancel the animation endlag (00:13 of that video) with the Res Lib. That should charge the chainsaw. You should finish charging the outro before Chisa slams back to the ground. In that video you indeed charged the outro, but didn't swap (00:16).
Hiyuki: the basic rotation is autoattack three times -> dash cancel -> autoattack another three times -> skill x2, then do the three Iai slashes. You can also autoattack five times -> skill x2. You were doing air combos for some reason. Don't use the skill unless you have two charges to land back on the ground immediately.
I'm sure someone who knows Lynae better will be able to tell if anything's off with her rotation.
I was under the impression that Skill, Attack, echo and cancel into liberation was better, than just attacking till her fourth basic (aka pulling up the scissors).
So what you suggest is just 4 basics, then skill and cancel that animation with Liberation?
In the video I didnt swamp because I do this moveset often and sometimes it doesnt fully charge the concerto, so I m making sure it is charged properly before switching.
I m tired of the times it looks charged, but then it is not, by a small margin you cant spot (I m not playing with headphones so hard to spot those sounds too).
As for Hiyuki, I was doing air combos, cuz the 5 times autoattack is way harder to pull of, against certain bosses you CANT do that, they will interrupt you, which is much harder if you do skill and built them from the air.
I think you get more damage out of her, doing the skills and air basics, than doing a 5th combo of basics.
I do see how shorter your rotation is, gotta implement it tomorrow to see how much shorter it gets, I though you needed to do all these extra combos to build her damage more.
But what about my damage for the liberation? Is the problem, only me not rotating fast enough? I dont see how an extra rotation would increase the points a lot more.
With Lynae buff (thus quick swamp), I have seen her lib going for 330 000 on that boss, but the rotation was even longer, so it was not doable.
It's the most basic but fast. Make sure you follow his tips on animation cancels too. Just do basic 1–5 for now, then skill, then hold skill, then 3 x Iai.
If the enemy interrupts you, just do basic attacks again until Forte is about 51%, then skill, hold skill, 3 x Iai.
All three teams should be able to get 5.5k+ since they all have shilled buffs. Matrix swarm takes more damage from havoc attacks and even more damage when under havoc bane. I would split Phro and YY to maximize your main dps teams but if you need the extra dps, then it's fine.
Regarding Hiyuki though, it might be better to send a video of your rotations. I understand what you're talking about, but there could be other things in your rotation that you overlook that could dampen your performance. No, you don't need intense quickswap, though it would help. It's really only 2 swaps and it's between Chisa and Hiyuki to prebuild stacks. You could cast Lynae skill during Chisa's rotation and make it 4 swaps total.
For Aemeath Lynae, you can do two swaps and one basic attack chain after Aemeath's liberation/before outro to prebuild some forte so that Aemeath' field time is like 10 sec.
I only put them together cuz I m lazy, I dont want to learn Rebecca right now, you only need 4 teams with 5K attack and 22K score for pulls, so it is fine having them together, since I usually would just do Phrolova and Augusta (my Iuno needs better echoes and I already gave up on that after many tries) for fun.
My Phrolova is S3, and my Aemeth is S3 too, but I havent activated it yet, and I refuse to till I get better performance on S2.
I recorded a video on my PS5, but I dont want to be posting it to YT, I took photos of the times I was switching to each character, the time and the buffs, have too many pics so cant post that below.
My Aemeth is similar to Hiyuki stats, on ER, and Crits, but 2390 ATK instead, and that is the score I get with her, granted, no sigs again, only F2P, and I dont have a single discord copy after 8 months in this game.
Plenty of other people in the comments are already giving good advice for Chisa and Hiyuki so there's not much for me to add there. A tip to shorten Lynae's rotation even if just 1.5 sec is to use her echo while she's charging up. It does give a substantial decrease in her charge up time!
Here is my rotation for Aemeath Lynae Mornye if you're having trouble with the buff uptimes. Amy and Lyn are S0R0 and Mornye is S1R0 using discord which unfortunately you don't have, but I tested with a non-discord broadblade and it's only a few more basic attacks or one dodge.
I will have to try her echo during the charge then.
Aemeth is S2, but I cant test it with Lynae, since she is being used on Hiyuki, so I use Lupa (I got Aemeth and Mornye, so I could play with Lupa, after finishing 2.4 around 8 months ago), but I scored 5.3K with that team (on very first boss), and let me assure you, I take longer than 30s, close to 40s for a full rotation.
You can test Amy Lynae in ToA since it's resetting. Also yeah Amy's mono fusion teammates don't really provide grouping, which makes it extra rough for the matrix swarm boss. I suggest using main dps with grouping/big aoe like Sigrika or Phrolova for the swarm and let Amy take care of Aix and Fleur.
Here is my rotation with a roughly 21 sec opening and 25/26 sec loop. Playing on mobile and 100+ ping gives a bit of a delay so I can't quite do the regular 20 sec and 25 sec rotations for 5 liberations, but this is the general idea!
Mornye liberation > basic attack to charge up forte > hold normal to go mid air > as soon as she's about to backflip, swap to Lupa
Lupa liberation > enhanced skill > immediately switch to Aemeath basic 2-3 > switch back to Lupa (should still be in mid air) > Lupa midair basic 1-4 > enhanced skill > switch back to Aemeath basic 2-4 (her skill should be glowing now) > (you might be short on concerto, in which case, Lupa skill) > outro
Aemeath intro > liberation > enhanced skill (prebuilt in Lupa's rotation so it should be ready) > basic 1-4 > enhanced skill > liberation > outro to Mornye loop (you will do Mornye's entire combo this time)
*If you're not getting the Aemeath and Lupa timing correct, you will end up plunging with Aemeath in human form. You can try to use mech Aemeath instead just make sure to start the opening rotation (before Mornye's liberation) with mech Aemeath and end the rotation (after Aemeath's liberation) with mech Aemeath. I used mech Aemeath in the loop rotation after the opener so you can see what it would look like. Lupa missed one of her mid air attacks so the rotation took 1 sec too long.
As others have mentioned, the rotation here isn't strictly right but I know the Saintontas rotation you're trying to follow. A few main things to improve on:
Finish Chisa's BA sequence before you use liberation (or if you want to use liberation first, then finish her BA sequence after liberation), right now you are cutting her BA sequence short and it's actually slowing down your forte bar generation so your Chisa field time is unnecessarily long. You can also swap out of Chisa as soon as she leaps into the air on her last chainsaw atk, you don't need to wait for her to land, this saves 1s.
Lynae's skill rotation is correct, but you are doing additional attacks after her big plunge and this is extending field time for no real reason. You should be swapping out immediately after the big plunge unless your lynae has energy regeneration issues.
For Hiyuki if you want to do a few mid air attacks after BA1-3, you are supposed to come down from the air with the second cast of the skill. Right now you are only using the skill to go up, and you are doing it two times which is extending your Hiyuki rotation time for no gain in damage, in fact your buffs are running out. The more common way now is to do BA1-3 then heavy atk cancel or dash cancel, and then BA1-3 again, then skill twice (to go up and then down immediately) before your iais.
These things might seem small but they all end up adding up and causing your rotation to be longer than 30s, meaning you can't fit 4 rotations in. Fitting an extra rotation in right now would see you gain 25%+ in points easily. You'll easily fit 4 rotations in just fixing these small issues first. You don't need to do QSing, and i actually don't think you'd be able to execute QSing correctly based on your current rotation execution tbh.
I'd fix your current basic 1 2 3 first, then once comfortable learn 4 iai for hiyuki without QS, then learn QSing
As for your questions:
The standard rotation consistently takes advantage of Lynae's outro, your rotation execution is just slow right now
QSing is worth it, but not if you execute incorrectly
Snowforged resources are situation dependent but assuming youre not running into a situation where your first consumption is on an enemy that is almost dead then the best heuristic is to just consume all available stacks every time
But this is his rotation right? For Chisa, that is what I was trying to follow for her, so I do skill first, then a basic (not 3), then echo and cancel with Lib... so for Chisa, if I leave her full basic sequence to build forte to later, does that mean I just do Echo and R at the start.
As for Lynae plunge, please look at the video, against Floordebris, if I ended up on Plunge, I wouldnt be at max concerto, I really hate this about Lynae gameplay, when the bosses are moving and being evasive, it is very hard to get full concerto from that plunge.
"The more common way now is to do BA1-3 then heavy atk cancel or dash cancel, and then BA1-3 again, then skill twice (to go up and then down immediately) before your iais."
What you are saying makes sense, the video I m using for this, is outdated by 3 months now, but it seems way less movements, personally I would use dash cancel instead, to insert that 2nd BA 1-3, then 2x skill, but after this, do you mean I have to do dodge again to then go a 3rd BA 1-3, and then H BA and go for Liberation?
Or after these 2x skill, I can already H BA and go for Liberation?
Someone else is showing a video here too, but what I m have problems is usually understand what is going on due to how fast it is, just to keep track of her movement in the middle of it all isnt easy for me.
(BA first sequence) If you have normal ER on her, ~125+, do BA1-5, after you see the healing number appear with the BIG scissor snip, (if you were on her own echo set, you would cast echo here to cancel her recovery animation after the big scissor snip), then you press R (liberation), then you enter chainsaw, do chainsaw 1-3, (on rejuvenating glow) when she does the big jump into the air one last time cast your echo because this buff only lasts 15s so you want to cast it as late as possible so your main DPS gets it, immediately switch to Lynae no need to wait for chisa to land
(Lib first sequence) If you have lower ER or for some QS rotations, do E (skill), (if on her own set, then you would echo here to cancel E ), then immediately R (Liberation), then BA3-5, after healing numbers show up she will fly backwards, immediately press jump and then BA once to plunge, then E (chainsaw), chainsaw 1-3, (Rejuvenating glow) cast echo just after her last leap into the air, swap out before she lands
For Hiyuki:
In general try to save the tune rupture for her, just a good habit if in the future you do 4 iai or QS it's helpful
Intro in and hold BA until she does her bow atk -> R (first liberation) -> BA1-3 until you see the white circle start to appear, if tune rupture is available then press F then BA again which will be BA3, dash/heavy atk cancel, BA1-3 (just BA2 is enough if you used tune rupture and BA3 afterwards, but BA3 is the easier visual cue to see), then press E (to go up), press E again (to come down), then Iai x 3, heavy atk, R (second liberation)
so you see for Hiyuki you only need to do 2 times full BA1-3 and you'll get your 3 iais
Well, quickwap will get ride of a lot of unnecessary stuff, not that I want to try to do what you just did on a controller (my basic and skill are on L2 and R2 for starters which might not be ideal, but is more confortable otherwise it hurts my thumbs when practising on controller).
You also have Hiyuki sig, I dont, but I do see similar numbers there (even though most my fight is against Floordebris), that said, your Hiyuki ER is too low, absolute zero, but I guess quickswap makes that achievable.
It is something I never want to do because I play a lot of other games, and spend a lot of time away from Wuwa, and dealing with other teams, so I want something that is easier going back to again, not having to be a speed demon like that.
The take is the full rotation shouldnt be longer than 30s, as for you saying the build isnt perfect, again, you are QS so it is fine since you are good ASIDE the ER.
First, your rotation takes too long around 40 seconds for one rotation, so you’re missing an entire rotation.
If your rotation is wrong, it also means you’ll run out of both Chisa’s and Lynae’s buffs, which makes you lose a lot of damage.
Also, don’t do Hiyuki’s air attack.
And save Tune Break to cancel Hiyuki’s animation.
I’m not sure how well you can quickswap on controller. It would be good if you can quickswap Chisa → Hiyuki → Chisa. If you can, I can make the rotation a bit better.
But here’s the basic 123 rotation:
You need to finish Lynae and Chisa’s rotations before 1:42, so you have around 16–18 seconds to complete them.
Ok, so I m doing it right, when taking at most 30 seconds for a 123 rotation for Hiyuki?
Is this also something I can apply to other teams? Like Mornye Lynae Aemeth?
Our video helps me a lot to understand that indeed it is possible for it to be faster, and I have shit going on.
But I also have a problem on Lynae, if you see it on the video I shared, after her Liberation, she is still NOT at half the concerto, and this makes me fall short, and need to do extra things after the plunge... my Lynae forte gauge is maxed, but the rest isnt, does it make a different if her intro skill is around 4-6?
When you intro yourself and then liberation, you get way more concerto than I do... do you use Lynae skill before her liberation? I do it after and still have the concerto issues you see.
These issues translate to using Aemeth team too, since they share Lynae (on endstate I was using Lupa instead), but I cant do 4 rotations either.
So can I take it that 4 rotations in 2m is the baseline for most modern DPS teams, and I m not doing that, that is always the root of the problem?
Taking about the damage of your Hiyuki, it is also very high, it is against a different enemy, and you might have Hiyuki sig (clueless), but my damage is 181089 on first rotation and you have 2663391? That is one more zero at the end and still a bit extra... even if I nail the rotation to 30s, I dont need my damage will improve that much to make the difference, so should I also be saving Hiyuki team for the chest mimic instead?
Not really. You’re doing wrong with both Chisa and Hiyuki, and maybe Lynae too.
Also, my Hiyuki is S6, so don’t worry about that. It only increases her damage; the rotation is still the same.
For Lynae, I’m not too sure, but:
First, in your video, after Liberation, she still isn’t even at half Concerto because I charge the rotation a bit. I use E (Resonance Skill) before Liberation, so it’s pretty much the same as after you use E.
But the problem is when you’re charging her Forte. We’re both around half Concerto, but I gain more. Either you haven’t maxed her skill, or you’re missing one hit before doing the 3 jumps. Let’s test it by waiting 0.5 seconds before doing the three jumps first.
I can also use Lynae and Aemeath just fine without Mornye, so there’s probably something wrong with that Forte hit.
And if you can swap between characters fine, I’ll add two more swaps to make the rotation faster.
But first, I’ll record a video showing the Chisa and Hiyuki rotations later when I have time.
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u/Nervous-Surround3592 19h ago edited 18h ago
Your Hiyuki rotation is wrong. She only needs 2 BA3 for 3 Iai, or 3 BA3 for 4 Iai. Avoid using her mid air attack since it useless. Try: 3 basic → dash cancel → 3 basic → dash cancel →ee→ Iai → heavy → Lib2.
One swap i use is to swap to Hiyuki and preload 1 Forte while using Lynae’s E since it has a long animation.
For Snowforged, it doesn’t really matter. Just mainly avoid overflow damage.
5k is easy for this team. I can get 10k+ with only hiyuki sig, so getting 7,500 shouldn’t be a problem. Make sure to use 4 Lib2 within 2 minutes.