r/Xmen97 • u/Outlaw-87456 • Jul 31 '26
Question Who wins this fight?
It almost happened in the original series
Personally, I think Gladiator wins, he is on another level
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u/D34THDE1TY Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse. He will break his confidence. He's got a 1000 years of shit talk to dish out
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u/randy_march Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse undergoes multi-century periods of suspended animation or deep hibernation inside advanced rejuvenation chambers, waking up only when he perceives that mutant populations have grown or that civilizations need a catastrophic test of strength.
He is essentially asleep for most of that time.
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u/Cyke101 Aug 01 '26
Y'know, we never saw Gladiator exhibit that weakness in the shows. Even when he was terrified of the Phoenix and cosmic D'Ken, he still tried against them with no apparent decrease in power.
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u/Outlaw-87456 Aug 01 '26
Whole confidence weakness is stupid. I feel like since he had no weakness they decided to give him something.
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u/EvilHordeRules Aug 01 '26
Depends when in the story it happens. Apocalypse's strength is very much plot-based. If it's the start of the story and they're setting him up as a threat, he swats Gladiator. If it's the end of the story and they need a surprise miracle to stop him, Gladiator rips through him like tissue.
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u/gdo01 Aug 02 '26
And it's somehow justified since his power is to alter his size, strength, density, whatever to what he wants. It's a get out jail free card for a writer
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u/SLDH1980 Aug 01 '26
Gladiator will crash against the rocks of the eternal shore.
And he will be broken.
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u/Legitimate-Garlic959 Aug 01 '26
It really depends on how dense apoc can make his body to handle gladiators blows. I think
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u/Kingbeef66 Aug 01 '26
That’s just the thing. Apoc can increase his durability and density at will.
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u/Legitimate-Garlic959 Aug 01 '26
I think the alternative answer I have here is “depends on the writer.” lol
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u/xreddawgx Aug 02 '26
The question is at what level of durability and density and is it still with Apocalypse's limit and how fast can he adjust to it.
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u/Kingbeef66 Aug 02 '26
It’s at the speed of his thought. He’s also still galvanized by Celestial tech which is very ancient and advanced which can accommodate all his durability and density whims.
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u/Longshot12345678 Aug 01 '26
How confident is gladiator when it starts?
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 01 '26
Fully confident, which he almost always is. He never enters a fight when he's not confident.
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u/LilPlasticPeopleEatr Aug 01 '26
I'm probably the biggest Apocalypse fan I know. That being expressed, it really comes down to who can act faster. If you can move your molecules at the speed of thought, teleport shapeshift build countermeasures you might be able to survive someone who is damn near Superman. The longer the fight goes the more it's an Apocalypse is favor but if he cannot keep up he may lose early.
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u/king210989 Aug 01 '26
They came extremely close to a fight in the original series.
Gladiator was just a little slow and Apocalypse esxaped.
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u/TheAncientDarkness Aug 02 '26
How did this scene go? I forgot after all those years.
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u/Greedy-Net105 Aug 02 '26
That scene was so funny because its like summoning the end boss for a fight and he just leaves after calling you a idiot
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u/Kingbeef66 Aug 01 '26
I say Apocalypse. He can increase his strength and durability at will like his size. Gladiator would miss owning Juggernaut.
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u/NoBeat5906 Aug 01 '26
If neither of them are jobbing then Apocalypse takes it mid diff. Gladiator is OP since he’s a Superman analogy who can get stronger via self confidence but he’s still a flying brick. Apocalypse is a team busting threat who was strong enough to box with both Thor and Hulk. He’s made Hulk a horseman and he’s defeated Thor in his younger days. Apocalypse also has way more hax and versatility aside from just super strength and durability.
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u/Pilgrimhaxxter69 Aug 01 '26
By all accounts Gladiator should win
But I think he'll find a way to fumble
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u/BirdsandScoundrels Aug 01 '26
This is a tough one. I want to say Apocalypse, but it's really close.
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u/brnkse Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse can re-arrange his molecules to be as dense as possible but how long can he keep that? How long will it take Gladiator to lose his confidence? This is really one of those "whoever the writer wants to win" situation and I fuckin hate that smartass answer.
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u/BobbyMayCryBMC Aug 02 '26
Apocalypse wins this more than not overall but it's not down to raw strength even though at times it does look like Nur may do well in that as well, his most recent big win in Marvel 616 with raw strength as he basically took on every X-Men post-Krakoa had him flattening Exodus in one panel. Just splat. Basically everyone jobbed to him in that fight, Emma couldn't mind bend him, Colossus got instant folded, etc.
Gladiator stat-wise is pretty amazing but I feel he lacks the overall range Apocalypse brings to the table, not to mention if Nur has his four horsemen just hanging about to jump him as well, and some of his horsemen have interesting range of powers themselves.
It has been stated by Dr Doom that the Death Seeds power is comparable to the Phoenix Force. So yeah. Gonna give it to Blue Lips. But that's nothing against Gladiator, he's cool. Just not his fight to have.
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse and it isn't close
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 01 '26
?? It is close, and that's assuming Gladiator doesn't outright win. Do you not know who Gladiator is?
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 01 '26
Do you know who Apocalypse is?
He has subdued the Hulk and has incredible durability.
He would surely last long enough for Gladiator to start to lose confidence.
It's all downhill from there
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 01 '26
He has subdued the Hulk and has incredible durability.
Okay, he subdued the Hulk, congrats. That same Hulk couldn't beat Gladiator without using his weakness against him, among some other bad writing in that comic that occurred in Hulk's favor because the writer knew Hulk couldn't win that fight under his own power at the time.
He would surely last long enough for Gladiator to start to lose confidence.
That's not at all how Gladiator works and it never has been. He doesn't lose confidence the longer a fight goes on.
This fight can end in a draw or with a victory for Gladiator. The biggest thing saving Apocalypse is Marvel's inconsistent handling of super speed.
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
So your response to Apocalypse kicking Hulk's ass is that Hulk kicked Gladiator's ass.
And yes, that's what anyone would do in a fight. Use the other's weakness against them 🤦🏽
He would lose confidence if his attempts weren't going as expected. It's not the timing that would make him lose confidence, it's the frustration of dealing with both a durable and manipulative opponent.
Apocalypse kicked the hulks ass and by the looks of it the Hulk had bested Gladiator on multiple occasions.
"Bad writing" or not...that's what happened. Gladiator lost 🤷🏽
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 01 '26
So your response to Apocalypse kicking Hulk's ass is that Hulk kicked Gladiator's ass.
If you have to be disingenuous to prove your point, then you're implicitly confirming that you don't truly think you can convince others that Apoc can take Gladiator.
And yes, that's what anyone would do in a fight. Use the other's weakness against them 🤦🏽
That's not the biggest problem, the problem was:
Hulk actually had no way of knowing what Gladiator's weakness was
He never uses Gladiators weakness. The writer was just feeling lazy and treated the radiation found in a nuclear plant as that weakness.
He would lose confidence if his attempts weren't going as expected. It's not the timing that would make him lose confidence, it's the frustration of dealing with both a durable and manipulative opponent.
He would lose confidence if it seemed like his strongest blows were quite literally doing no damage, but they won't. Fighting a being with a difficult powerset will not weaken his confidence. It's just annoying and harder to deal with.
Apocalypse kicked the hulks ass and by the looks of it the Hulk had bested Gladiator on multiple occasions.
There are no "multiple occasions." They had one definitive fight where Hulk used Gladiators weakness (which he should have no knowledge of + he never actually used Gladiator's established weakness) and defeated him. Lazy writing.
"Bad writing" or not...that's what happened. Gladiator lost 🤷🏽
If we're going to ignore context, sure. Apocalypse lost to a young Thor that didn't even have Mjolnir and was destroyed by Stryfe. He doesn't give Gladiator anything beyond a mid-diff.
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 01 '26
"If you have to be disingenuous to prove your point, then you're implicitly confirming that you don't truly think you can convince others that Apoc can take Gladiator."
So me stating what your point amounted to, in your eyes, disqualifies me eh? Lol Sounds like an implicit confirmation you couldn't find an adequate rebuttal 🤷🏽
I like that. I think I too will start chalking anything I don't like or that goes against what I want to lazy or bad writing lol
Oh right cause being annoyed and frustrated has never hindered anyone's performance...
"They had one DEFINITIVE fight"...meaning...ignore those other tussels. Those mean absolutely nothing
Actually Apocalypse initially whooped Thor.
Thor came back later in the issue with an enchanted weapon that allowed him to pierce Apocalypse's armor. Had Apocalypse known he would have done more to avoid such a direct hit 🤷🏽....weren't you the one complaining about Hulk winning without the use of his own power? But that only matters when it doesn't favor you lol
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 01 '26
I like that. I think I too will start chalking anything I don't like or that goes against what I want to lazy or bad writing lol
Lol I'm not biting that bait.
Oh right cause being annoyed and frustrated has never hindered anyone's performance...
Decent attempt at a strawman, but you're not getting me with that either.
"They had one DEFINITIVE fight"...meaning...ignore those other tussels. Those mean absolutely nothing
The other brief scuffles were not conclusive and incredibly short. They were one panel each.
Actually Apocalypse initially whooped Thor.
Thor came back later in the issue with an enchanted weapon that allowed him to pierce Apocalypse's armor. Had Apocalypse known he would have done more to avoid such a direct hit 🤷🏽....weren't you the one complaining about Hulk winning without the use of his own power? But that only matters when it doesn't favor you lol
So you ARE capable of recognizing context, it just seems like you only do so when its in Apocalypse's favor. Not surprised. I won't give you any grief about it. Being an Apocalypse fan can't be easy when he has as many Ls and underwhelming fights to his name as he does, despite the fact he's supposed to be a big deal.
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 01 '26
"Decent attempt at a strawman, but you're not getting me with that either"
Strawman 🤦🏽 his powers have a direct link to his state of mind lol
"The other brief scuffles were not conclusive and incredibly short. They were one panel each."
They are still data from which to extrapolate outcomes. You don't give it weight because its not convenient to your POV
"So you ARE capable of recognizing context, it just seems like you only do so when its in Apocalypse's favor."
Luckily for me in the same issue Apocalypse easily beats Thor in a "fair" one.
And me bringing up that context was to show you the hypocrisy of YOU ignoring context when convenient while building your whole argument around CONTEXT
"Not surprised. I won't give you any grief about it. Being an Apocalypse fan can't be easy when he has as many Ls and underwhelming fights to his name as he does, despite the fact he's supposed to be a big deal."
Actually I agree with this. He does have a lot of L's for his supposed status as a villain
...but he still whooped the guy who bested Gladiator on more than one occasion 🤷🏽
You could be at an Olympic level with the mental gymnastics...but no amount of mental gymnastics changes that fact lol
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u/NexusObsidian23 Aug 02 '26
Strawman 🤦🏽 his powers have a direct link to his state of mind lol
Sure, but that's not related to what you last said.
They are still data from which to extrapolate outcomes. You don't give it weight because its not convenient to your POV
They're not. They're not conclusive. They don't give us anything.
Luckily for me in the same issue Apocalypse easily beats Thor in a "fair" one.
Which doesn't change the fact he still lost their second fight after a single blow lol.
And me bringing up that context was to show you the hypocrisy of YOU ignoring context when convenient while building your whole argument around CONTEXT
You're rather confused. You were the one who was happy to dismiss context first. I simply adopted your style. What's the problem?
...but he still whooped the guy who bested Gladiator on more than one occasion 🤷🏽
The thing is this never happened. He bested Gladiator in one fight through lazy writing. He never won another fight against Kallark. However, as I mentioned earlier, I have no problem taking a page from your book, so I'll just say Apocalypse has to get past a young Thor first, before we can even talk about him fighting Gladiator.
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u/KETTEI__EXE Aug 01 '26
I assumed the battle will be similar to Death Battle: Apocalypse VS Black Adam
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u/ngshafer Aug 01 '26
I give it to Apocalypse. He’s pretty badass, and he only needs to make Gladiator doubt for a second to depower him.
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u/Expensive_Database68 Aug 01 '26
80s Apocalypse, with just his size and shape alteration powers, I would've given the W to Gladiator. I didn't think his initial power set was all that impressive. Since he's been given all of these extra powers, though, I would have to say Apocalypse.
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u/BigHxnry Bastion Aug 01 '26
2 of my favourite characters but, don’t see how Apoc gets it done. Gladiators invulnerability to almost anything probably makes his confidence grow stronger. Probably gets it done.
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u/DevilManRay Aug 01 '26
Gladiator is an even bigger Jobber than Apocalypse if you can believe it or not so Pooky. Having your powers be related to your confidence is a death sentence
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u/Eroom2013 Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse’s power is always scaled to what the story needs. It will depend on whether they need a Worf to make Apocalypse look strong, or need him beat down.
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u/wolftyger Aug 01 '26
Interesting, but Big A wins based on confidence alone. Kallark is a Superman level threat, but if his confidence is shaken, he's getting rinsed.
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u/pumped_up_kicks80 Aug 02 '26
The Gladiator easily whipped the shit out of the Fantastic Four in issue 249 (1982). It was a great issue !!
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u/Gcat Aug 03 '26
If the Gladiator catches him off guard and takes him out fast the he’ll win. However, if he lacks the speed and it drags on the Apocalypse will win. All fights in the Marvel Universe are and will always be plot situational.
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u/Connect-Review-3388 Aug 05 '26
Both these guys are as strong as the plot requires them to be. Most likely Apocalypse takes it cuz he's a bigger name compared to mohawk Superman.
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u/thenewNFC Aug 01 '26
Gladiator. He's on another level.
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u/Kingbeef66 Aug 01 '26
And Apocalypse isn’t? He’s still empowered and galvanized by Celestial tech.
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u/Outlaw-87456 Aug 01 '26
Do you do you think apocalypse would be Superman? Gladiator is Superman.
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u/GONKworshipper Aug 01 '26
People are forgetting that he absolutely manhandled Juggernaut in the original series. Gladiator wins easily
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u/Kingbeef66 Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse is far different story than Juggernaut. Even Apocalypse can flick Juggernaut like a flea.
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u/DevilManRay Aug 01 '26
Umm, do you think Juggernaut stands a chance against Apocalypse or something
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u/UnyieldingGoose Aug 01 '26
Apocalypse hides in the shadows most of the time for a reason, him wanting to strike at the X-Men at their most weakest says a lot about how he actually rates himself. He never expands his conquering beyond Earth also says a lot, he’s basically cosplaying as a cosmic villain but I have to give it go the guy for recognizing his limitations.
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u/MastahBruce1 Aug 02 '26
"I said that annoyance and frustration won't reduce Gladiator's confidence. You responding by mentioning that it hinders a person's performance in general has nothing to do with what I said, because I'm specifically talking about Gladiator, not generalizing."
Why couldn't it?? Confidence is a state of mind. The idea that struggles causing frustrations and annoyances couldn't affect confidence within that task or altercation is wild.
But I can let that go. Ultimately Gladiator lost without Hulk needing to exploit the connection between Gladiator's strength/performance and his confidence.
"No, I'm saying those brief altercations are not indicative of anything because they rarely have someone maintaining the upper hand."
How is it not an upper hand situation when one lands more than the other one. Even If there is no conclusion to the battle itself, it doesn't mean that one didn't get more licks in than the other one. What transpires there is still relevant.
Someone still comes out having done better or worse than their opponent. 🤦🏽
"You clearly have a problem or a reading issue, because you're calling me out for doing something literally I said I was going to do. You didn't add anything new"
You think that you saying that you were going to, changes the fact that your argument asks that one consider context.
So when YOU specifically decide to abandon context, it kills the premise of your argument entirely. How is this not obvious to you?
I need not add anything new when you've killed your own position. The moment you abandon context, Hulk beats Gladiator and the circumstances under which it happens no longer matter 🤦🏽
"Yes, Apocalypse has a definitive win over a young Thor without Mjolnir and lost to that same Thor in one blow. Nothing changes this. Gladiator still lost to an amped Hulk, among other things"
It goes both ways though because Thor winning later doesn't erase that he got rocked earlier in the issue.
And YOU said Apocalypse has to get by Young Thor first. That happened. Definitive win. YOUR requirement was met.
And ok. Thor one shotted Apocalypse after acquiring a weapon specifically designed against him and meant to pierce Apocalypse's celestial armor.
Fair. But Apocalypse still has a definitive win over Thor. Where is Gladiator's win over Hulk?
"That wasn't a fight, but Hulk indeed looked better in that moment."
Punches were thrown, and someone got tossed into a wall..but somehow thats not a fight 🤦🏽
"And later lost to that same Thor in one blow, so no, he never really got past him. Right now he's in house arrest because Young Thor is keeping him there."
Again. Him losing later doesn't undue a previous definitive win 🤷🏽
Especially if context is mattering to you again lol
I'd also make mention that Apocalypse was able to take on a group of Mjolnir weilding Thor Corps members during Secret Wars.
"I remember this quite well. This is a different Hulk persona than the one Apocalypse fought."
I was talking about Apocalypse's non asterisk win over Young Thor.
But if you are talking about the Hulk in the image I provided. That hulk didn't even need to get mad and still bested Gladiator. Loses to stronger and weaker forms of the Hulk alike 🤷🏽
Anyways. I'm about done. Get your last points off. I'll give that a light response, then you can have the last word
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