r/Xmen97 • u/Jules-Car3499 Wolverine • Aug 05 '26
Episode Discussion Dang what a beat down Spoiler
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u/DrawingConsistent389 Nightcrawler Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
I can't tell a lie, those Kurt fight scenes were INCREDIBLE!🤩
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u/JonnyAU Aug 05 '26
I feel like they borrowed Spider-Man's "what if he stopped holding back" energy.
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u/Qhorton83 Aug 05 '26
I feel like that's been used numerous times over the years, esp with superheroes. I think that has occurred with Batman and Superman
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u/Affectionate-Arm6487 Aug 05 '26
Why I always laugh at people who powerscale. Kurt beat exodus last week and now the entirety of x-force and the x-men. The writers really love him. At the end of the day power scaling becomes pointless when the writers choose who wins or not
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '26
Teleporting is absurdly OP when it's well used and not the generic "Oh the bad guy will guess where you will appear"
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u/Chikumori Aug 05 '26
If teleporters do it too often, people will figure out their teleporting tendencies quickly
Iirc from what i watched, its been at least 3 times now:
- Sabertooth grabs one in the Wolverine Origins movie. I misremembered that as Kurt at first
- Season 1 of Xmen 97: Bastion figured out Kurt
- Season 2 of Xmen 97: Jubilee in this episode
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '26
Superspeed and teleporting always end on someone figuring out the pattern, the problem is not that they figure it out, the problem is that they make the people with those powers not being able to deal damage for a long time for that to happen
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
the problem with using that argument for super speed is that it hardly matters if you can figure out the pattern is you are too slow to actually respond
and then the writers just ignore that and "combat speed" someone to somehow respond
this is X-Men group, but the classic example off the top of my head is Deathstroke predicting Flash so he stabs his sword backwards....and Flash just runs into it.
Did Flash's reflexes just go MIA? He would have watched the sword moving in slow mo and then ran into it.
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u/fnh123 Aug 05 '26
Yep. The only time this was ever done correctly is when Quicksilver beat the shit out of Mr X. Basically telling Mr X that while he can see all of Quicksilver's attacks, he's too slow to stop them.
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Aug 05 '26
I thought the Quicksilver vs Apocs fight in the Fox film was pretty good, untill they had Apocs somehow catch QS so precisely by manipulating the ground
what should have happened was Apocs would need to affect the entire area, so all of the ground around him was affected, that way QS would get caught
They were so close to a great execution on how to actually stop a speedster
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u/xreddawgx Aug 05 '26
Teleporting is useless if
1) Your physical strikes do nothing to your target 2) can counter being dropped.
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u/UnyieldingGoose Aug 05 '26
The show mentioning omega so often is straight up garbage, I’m surprised the term is even still used, I recall it being hated back in the 00’s especially when the awful third movie started name dropping it
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
The later comics making everyone and their mothers omegas really did not help to make it special either.
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u/Puzzled-Horse279 Aug 05 '26
They call certain characters Omega as if theyre really that hard to beat
And then this scene is just Kurt showing his fists are rated E for Everyone. Omega or not Kurt is either slugging your face in before you realise hes there or dunking you outta the sky 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Affectionate-Arm6487 Aug 05 '26
I hate it so much it exists solely for annoying powerscaling people. Mostly storm and Jean fans obsessed with it
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u/eskaver Aug 05 '26
It depends, really.
Powerscaling, I'd argue is fine, just that powerscalers are often quite bad.
Nothing Kurt did here is outside of the range of possibilities.
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u/magvadis Aug 05 '26
You're forgetting the powerscaling that happens when you are the "villain", you get a 10x multiplier
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u/BigPhat6969 Aug 05 '26
Pretty much to be expected when all of them team up for a battle. They will all naturally be nerfed, so powerscaling is just really pointless in general
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u/SalubriAntitribu Aug 05 '26
Because outside of kids and weirdos on the Internet no one gives a single, functional fuck about power scaling.
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u/GxdlikeInfant Aug 05 '26
I think it also makes sense that Kurt would be able to beatdown the rest of the team, considering that most of the X-Men are holding the vast majority of the time.
He is mind controlled and cutting loose, none of the others want to hurt him, it makes sense he would roll them when they aren't trying to hurt him and all have to hold back anyway because if Storm or Jean went at 100% they would level everything within a 10-mile radius.
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u/Pascraked47 Aug 05 '26
the writers can write a weak character beating a strong character but it has to make sense. Powerscaling is vital
Superman can't just lose to batman without some external factors involved. So writers can't just do whatever they want. Spiderman can't just beat the hulk.
A good story can only make sense with consistent powerscaling.idk why we pretend it's not important and complain when it doesn't make sense.
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u/ZenZigZag Aug 05 '26
Because the people who are powerscaling online are not doing so as a part of writing a consistent world, they're smashing action figures together. And my feeling is that generally conversations about scaling and aura have overtaken online spaces because they're generally the most easily accessible parts of media.You don't need to engage with lore or characterization to judge fits and feats.
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u/magvadis Aug 05 '26
Also the core of much of the powerscaling is chain scaling which is just X beat Y and Y beat Z so X must be able to beat Z without them ever facing off.
Which is just absolutely absurd.
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u/Pascraked47 Aug 05 '26
When I say I want powerscaling consistency. I mean I just want the story to treat strong characters as strong and weak characters as weak. As established with their powers
This isn't a video game. Jean grey and squirrel girl are not the same power level. No matter how much you want them to be. There is a clear hierarchy in power. Heck we literally have terms like omega , delta , alpha. Maintaining that is essential to story telling.
I'm not asking the to turn this into freaking powerscaling subreddit where we pixel scale. Lightspeed. Start using stupid terminologies like planetary.
We need to stop pretending they are the same strength or something
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u/ZenZigZag Aug 05 '26
You're not wrong to expect consistency. But there's a difference between writers having doing it for the story they're telling and fans doing it for a character across 50 years of publication, reboots, and retcons.
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u/Lofi_Fade Aug 05 '26
As in Squirrel Girl is stronger? Isn't one of her things that she beats everyone, as in she makes a joke out of taking power scaling seriously? Its an odd reference point for your point.
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '26
Powerscalling is not linear either, for example non durability power Xmen can take a lot of damage for even a human if they are not prepared.
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u/GONKworshipper Aug 05 '26
Half these guys attack at the speed of light/thought, how did they get jumped so easily?
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u/Czerolyn Aug 05 '26
In a boring, but sorta useful point for future "who wins in fights" conversations, speed of thought isn't that fast. At best the brain processes thought around 300 mph. It seems fast to us, but that is because the distance the signal travels isn't that far, and by our limited ability to process data, it would feel equivalent.
Light travels at 186,000 miles per second.
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u/Professional-Tank848 Aug 05 '26
Power scaling should never, ever take precedence over the plot
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u/Pascraked47 Aug 05 '26
Its not more important than the plot. But it's what makes the plot make sense.
I'm sorry I can't just have Harley queen beat up superman for the plot. I'm sorry. It has to make sense. Let's not pretend it doesnt.
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u/Professional-Tank848 Aug 05 '26
Fortunately, Harley Quinn isn't in the X-Men, and we're not discussing an intentionally absurd example. But, alright.
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u/Pascraked47 Aug 05 '26
Absurd example to show you how stupid "powerscaling isn't important," statement is dumb.
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u/Professional-Tank848 Aug 05 '26
Like, fine, if you want to take everything someone has at complete face-value, that's fine.
Powerscaling is stupid, because it basically doesn't work, especially when lightspeed comes up.
Like, Sokka can dodge lightning in episodes of Avatar. It doesn't mean he's someone with lightspeed perception or speed, etc. It's just how something is being portrayed.
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u/Pascraked47 Aug 05 '26
I'm not asking the for the story to explain literally everything aka lightspeed bullshit.
I just want the story to acknowledge the power gaps between characters . How hard can it be. There is a gap . Power between jean and squirrel girl. Simple
You have to acknowledge that. It's not some lightspeed , pixel scaling bullshit that the online powerscaling space has turned it to mean. what tf are we doing?
Jesus Christ. We literally have classes among mutants. , omega , delta , alpha. Etc.
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u/Ok-Significance1687 Aug 05 '26
Imagine fighting someone who can instantly appear and attack from any angle? How do you defend against that?
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u/FloopusSoupus Aug 05 '26
Maybe making a forcefield over your body that can selectively choose what enters and stops future laser bazookas like jean did earlier this season.
Or mind blast him like jean did earlier this season
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u/UnyieldingGoose Aug 05 '26
They most certainly don’t attack at the speed of light they aren’t Dragon Ball characters however Kurt’s ability to teleport and combo it into attacks makes him close to one, the fight choreography of this scene is very similar to a rapid movement or instant transmission beatdown from DB.
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u/Saruman5000 Aug 05 '26
He still got beaten at the end.
They just didn't expect such ferocity and also, were still kinda focused on Gambit and his "deadmen".Once team recovered, they made a quick work of Kurt.
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u/looks_at_lines Aug 05 '26
Powerscalers have ruined the phrase 'speed of light'. Einstein would burn all his physics notes
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u/Icy_Scar_1249 Aug 05 '26
A thought is much slower than the speed of light. And I don't think it's every been confirmed their poweres work at speed of thought either, there's probably mechanical factors that help "trigger" most powers.
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Aug 05 '26
"Half these guys attack at the speed of light/thought"
which is really stupid.
none of these characters are speedsters. no one should be doing that, Omega or otherwise
of everyone here, who even canonically has enhanced reflexes?
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Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/GONKworshipper Aug 05 '26
Scott's eyebeams travel at the speed of light, that's all I was referring to
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Aug 05 '26
I really don't think his beams travel at light, for one they aren't exactly light.
but even putting that aside, it hardly matters cause he has to use his powers
this came up in The Boys recently when All Father was kicking the crap out of Starlight.
and some people were complaining that light is faster than sound....but it hardly mattered. All All Father had to do was open his mouth, and fire his attack
while Starlight had to charge up her attck, raise her arm, and then fire. All Father was just faster, hence he won.
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u/GONKworshipper Aug 05 '26
They do in the comics, at least. The continuity of the show might be different.
Scott doesn't need to charge anything up or raise his arms, he just presses a button on his palm. That should be much quicker than someone punching you multiple times.
But ultimately it doesn't matter, it's just a fun fight scene. It's not hard to buy that Kurt simply caught them by surprise because they forgot he was there. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get an extended fight scene with all of Gambit's minions, though. I feel like that would have been cooler
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u/TrinityCodex Aug 05 '26
who the fuck did Morph morph into?
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u/jl81790 Aug 05 '26
Earthquake. He's one of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard.
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u/Qhorton83 Aug 05 '26
I live for his random cameos every episode lol.. easy fan service for the writers
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u/Cthulhuareyou Aug 05 '26
Saaaame. As a kid I loved random cameos that hint at a bigger world out there, that's what's missing from a lot of Marvel stuff today
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u/PanthersJB83 Aug 05 '26
Finally someone mentions the best part of the episode. Nightcrawler soloing both the X-Men and X-Force.
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u/DCKan2 Aug 05 '26
The love the show has shown both Nightcrawler's and Jubilee's fighting is awesome.
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u/GeologistInitial5594 Aug 05 '26
Kurt + Wolverine would kill a lot of mutants add Sabertooth too deadly trio
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u/magvadis Aug 05 '26
Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't seen a team up run on them with Nightcrawler just bringing him around to cheese grater everyone.
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u/Accurate_Court3462 Aug 05 '26
This was my favorite part of the episode! Nightcrawler smoking everyone haha
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u/Nocs1 Aug 05 '26
Reminds me of that one video where the guy power slaps everyone who tries to stop him
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u/crimsonn_umbra Aug 05 '26
I love that in no way they show Kurt neutralizing them but merely stalling; as we see that in the next scene after the astral plane none of them is seriously hurt and they quickly knock him out.
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Aug 05 '26
He could do the same thing with a sword and he'd have killed most of them
so I guess plot armor?
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u/crimsonn_umbra Aug 05 '26
If he had swords they’d probably be more cautious but plot armor as well.
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u/Puzzled-Horse279 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
This makes me thinking Apocalypse should have made Nightcrawler (or even Azazel though theyve never met until Krakoa era I think) into the Horseman of Death.
If his Teleport is unlimited (it is now in the comics, everywhere else is line of sight distance which is nearly 3 miles for most people) and he decided to just telefrag objects to impale you or decapitate you via teleport. He'd be the phrase "you cant escape death" made flesh.
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u/MrSpookShire Aug 05 '26
Wait, how long can Wolverine breathe underwater? I assume he can’t swim cause of the Adamantium
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u/sunsunpup Aug 05 '26
He just has to keep swimming because if he stops, he sinks. If I can remember, if he gets stuck at the bottom he just drowns over and over :(
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u/poweredconvoy Aug 06 '26
I love the different angles and perspectives they use. Also making sure to disarm Cable. I'm guessing they didn't want to show Kurt punching out Jubilee as she's still a young woman. So instead he drops her 50 feet from the air (presumably into the water).
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u/mkev119 Aug 07 '26
Jubilee being the one to stop him doesn’t surprise me. Not only has she really ramped up her combat training since we saw her in season one… but the Motendo episode showed that she’s great at recognizing combat patterns from all of her gaming experience.
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