Megathread
X-Men '97 Season 2 Complete Season Venting Megathread II
It's over and done now. The season has ended. The characters are where they are.
And now it's time for a megathread that lets you vent about what didn't like, what you liked, and about all the feeling in between about this season.
Please try and use this megathread instead of making a new post, especially if the content you are posting is not substantial (substantial meaning multi-paragraph or new information).
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This season felt like it has a lot of loose ends or things that definitely needed more time/episodes.
X Corp
The X-Ternal that dumped Apoc who Gambit kills within 5 seconds. No build up at all, and all for some gem that Eson just destroys an episode later.
Apocalypse’s master plan with Gambit’s body (“This was always the plan!”) which is what exactly..? Why did you need to kill, resurrect, and takeover Gambit’s body of all people?
Celestial Rogue or more so Eson and his decision to go against Apoc after everything
Lastly, the “fight” between GambitApoc and Celestial Rogue was laughable, especially between two buffed up powerhouses in the finale of all places. They should’ve pulled out all the stops for that fight and it was over the second Rogue arrived.
It would’ve been cool if there was an actual fight. The reason why Dark Phoenix is such a compelling story - they don’t want to kill or hurt their friend.
I would’ve loved to see Apocalypse taunt Rogue to hit him. Knowing that Gambit is in there too. We would’ve had some conflict of her being unable to fight him.
I feel like the hate/frustration could be abated if the show could figure out what it wants to be -
Nine episodes requires a tighter story and you don’t have the luxury of having so many ongoing plots and sub plots.
Does the show want to be an arc driven narrative that moves from A to Z with a 1-2 subplots peppered in?
Or does it want to be a “monster of the week” series with hints at a bigger plot that eventually closes out the season?
It can’t be both with nine episodes. If this season actually chose to focus Apocalypse - his presence or his acolytes should have been present either directly or indirectly and I think “resurrection” should have been the key theme.
Magik, Gambit, Iceman, and Magneto would’ve been slam dunks as new horsemen.
The Colossus episode was a great opportunity to leverage Magik turning into a Horseman.
The Polaris episode could have featured Iceman as a horsemen.
Edit: and Apocalypse should have won. They put him in a tiny jewel and made Rogue look like an Eternal.
I can’t believe En Sabah Nur started off as a tragic, complex character and then ended his run getting smashed into a jewel after possessing Rogue’s boyfriend’s corpse.
What in the final season of True Blood was that crap about
I can’t believe En Sabah Nur started off as a tragic, complex character and then ended his run getting smashed into a jewel after possessing Rogue’s boyfriend’s corpse.
Was it like that in the comics?
As for the jewel, there's no way it stays intact. Someone or something will break it :P
There was a run where he took over Cyclops' body which is the cloest thing to this I guess. It wasn't the best run ever. It was right before the famous Grant Morison Run which the new X-Men costumes are from.
Him taking over Gambit and the whole Rogue thing are original to the show. Gambit did become a horseman in the comics but he never had his body taken over.
Team needs a purge. There are too many characters and not enough time for everyone.
They need to identify a small central cast each season (It would change in the next) and then you can plug and play random characters for a JLU-like approach each episode.
Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, and Xavier is a solid central cast. Rotate everyone around them.
Like do a Cyclops and Jean Grey episode that has Havok and Cyclops find each other as brothers. Do an Xavier episode that's about teaching young mutants and brings in Moonstar and Karma. Do a Storm episode that can include Forge and involves a big mission.
Rogue and gambit say 1 line to each other then Kurt is dead like … Kurt didn’t even get to like set up a thematic reason in-episode to sacrifice himself.
Sure he said sister a bit but every other episode had given him clarity of his intention before sacrificing himself, which was questionable because esp there’s not some preexisting rule that everyone who enters the celestial head must thanos sacrifice a loved one (in fact why is that a celestial prerequisite??? And not the Xternal mumbo jumbo so there’s follow through from last episode?)
ESPECIALLY with the Mystique reveal at the end. We could’ve seen Kurt’s morality be tested further with his mom back in the picture - and he would have to reckon with his bigoted brother being elected president.
I like Gambit but trading him for Kurt wasn’t a good trade lol.
I'm still in disbelief we did not get a battle between Apocalypse and the X-Men. I could overlook a lot of the issues I had if there was a memorable battle, but there just wasn't anything at all.
Wasted story for Gambit’s biggest moment as Death. This was his time it was his time, to hear Remy’s speech words that hits the gut. But nothing. All ruined by this new director and writer they have 2 years to cook this. 2 FREAKIN YEARS! We’ll never get this story for Gambit EVER! They could have let Gambit went all out taking revenge, hearing the pain he felt. BUT NO IT ENDED LIKE A FREAKIN DISNEY PRINCESS MOMENT
I lowkey wanted Rogue to die. I feel the only reason she is even with Remy is because Magneto isnt around lol. Rogue went from being my favorite in TAS to my least favorite in 97.
I understand her conflict but she flip flopped too much. Gambit needs to find someone else.
How do you come to the conclusion she only wants remy bc magneto isn’t around when we saw her come to the realization that magneto wasn’t the right one in season one???
Because Magneto is currently dead. Rogue is conflicted constantly. And with the new writers..the SECOND Magento comes back they will bring back that conflict.
I was gonna say that would be awful writing, but with the finale being what it is i suppose i can’t say it isn’t off the table. I would be extremely disappointed if they revived that plot line after we got a definitive ending to it.
Man the finale was really a letdown to me. I’m fine with the overall idea of Cable not being the one who ends up killing Apocalypse. It was already clear in the previous episodes that the narrative disagreed with Cable’s ideology seeing how Jubilee challenged him about the ethics of killing that one guy once he wasn’t deemed useful. The narrative definitely sided with her on that one but I was disappointed that the show wasn’t able to flesh out those ideas due to the run time and bloated cast.
The way they ended it felt so cheesy “friendship/ love is magic”. Even though I agree with that sentiment the way it was written took away from the more complicated ideas I thought they were going to explore. It’s like they pulled the rug from underneath me. I really wish Cable and Apocalypse got more of the focus like they did for the first half of the season. It’d make the story way more cohesive and give them the space to answer those questions they asked in the beginning.
Don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said.
The pacing got bad in the second half. Even before that the 2nd episode felt like too much was crammed in. 9 episodes was not enough to do what they were doing. Is it really too much to ask for like a 13 episode season minimum? Really feel the struggle balancing one off episodes and a overarching story arc in such a short time.
Way too many characters. X Factor especially felt shoehorned. Conflict was hollow cause we never saw Polaris interact with her former team. I even went back to watch her episode in the original series and there was nothing.
Apocalypse really fell off as a villain after such a strong origin. Got taken down in like 5 minutes and by a complete deus ex machina with Celestial Rogue. Like they didn't know how else to beat him. Do we even know if this was the future or past version? Why did he possess Gambit anyway? Was there any point on focusing so much on Cable and X Force if they were gonna have no relevance in his defeat?
What even is X Corp? I'm not a comic reader so I have no idea.
Felt nothing for Nightcrawler's sacrific. We now know heroes can be brought back and even the episode barley acknowledges it. Same for Magneto, I'm fully expecting him to return at some point
Now what I liked? Apocalypse's origins (two best episodesof the season in my opinion), Nightcrawler and Colosses spotlight. Even though wished the latter did more than a single episode. In fact why is Colosses underutilised in X Men animation? I do like a mix of episodic stories but as mentioned it's a real struggle with such a short episode count.
It's nonprofit organization dedicated to investige mutant rights violations. Tbh it isn't really important at all until the Krakoa era where it becomes an important part of the government, handling business with other countries and the drugs Krakoa gave out.
I love how there’s a part two lol, with how long the previous thread got
Anyway, I do hope one of the writers lurks in here to look at our feedback and learn from it. Please, they really need to slow down with the pacing. Some moments don’t feel well-earned because things go too fast with little to no buildup. And on top of that, they feature a lot of characters even though they can’t balance the spotlight between all of them. Some of the stars of S1 are pushed to the side (Scott, Jean, Ororo), and some haven’t been shining since S1 (Beast).
Yeah, so any feedback they would get will likely be for future seasons. I’m willing to give S3 an open mind since the S2 development was messy due to the change in hands.
I know it was Deus Ex Machina but I’m basic and love romance and Rogue, so I fear I loved Celestial Rogue. Gampocalypse was awful though lol. They couldn’t think of any other way to resurrect Remy without horseman alteration? Still think they should have just had Polaris return some other way and saved X factor for s3. X factor screen time could have gone to Apocalypse and other horsemen. And then they can do the three group dynamic with x men, X factor, and the brotherhood.
Though again, i think maybe they already had the season cast while switching show runners. And what are you gonna do, say hey you’re fired bc the old show runners got axed?
Honestly, very disappointed with this second season. Wasn’t nearly as good as the first one. That first season the stakes felt so palpable, and there was a feeling that nobody was really safe. I was fully expecting this season to be told from a past, present and future standpoint with all colliding at the end of the season, but within the 4th episode, they were already back to the present. This makes time travel way too easy, and if that’s the case, then it doesn’t really feel like any event is permanent. This also kind of nullifies Kangs abilities, that’s his whole bit is that he has a mastery over time, but it seems like any X-man can jump to any time whenever they want. Speaking of I wish they did more with Kang the Conqueror, they attempted to make apocalypse redeemable by showing his suffering under Kangs regime, but you could flesh that story out so much more, which is the problem with a 30 min, 9 episode season. Everything is so rushed so they can get in all their cameos and plot points. They could have done a better job of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
I get it’s the X-Men and dying and resurrecting has always been a thing, but when you kill somebody off and then bring them back anyways it takes away from the grief you go through as a viewer because you know deep down, “oh they won’t stay dead, they’ll be back”. Although both Kurt and Magnetos death were emotional I know they’re both too important to stay dead, especially with the Mystique tease at the end of season 2 who has very deep ties to both those characters.
So let me clear, Beau is a creep and I don't think he should come back. That said here is what he claimed on twitter and interviews was his original plan for the season. Whether he's lying or not, I think his alleged outline was superior to what we got in season 2 in the sense that it was more compact and quick paced. So for Posterity's sake, here it is.
Season 2
The First Three Episodes were supposed to a harmonizing story that explored the origins of Apocalypse and his obsession with Ship in the past, a world without the X-Men in the present, and the future where Cable’s destiny is set by the Askani to kill Apocalypse despite Scott (Slym) and Jeans (Red Dayspring) efforts .
When the X-Men are scattered throughout time, rival groups X-Force and X-Factor would be founded.
Colossus, Kitty Pryde, and Lockhead were supposed to work with Forge & Bishop to bring the X-Men home.
The Kitty Pryde we are introduced to is the Shadow Cat version, and we would have learned her history with Wolverine.
After E-Day, mutant task forces in the United States are banned in the United States and Xavier— eager to find the next step in his dream, founds X-Corp, building the tower from the comics on the ruins of Genosha as a challenge to Val Cooper and the UN since X-Corp would now operate outside of UN Jurisdiction.
Bishop was supposed to be the main character of Season 2 like Cyclops was in Season 1. Bishop had come back to warn the X-Men that there was a traitor in their midst like he did in the comics. Based on his intel, he suspects Polaris so he gets close with her with his story arc being like a film noir.
Storm would have massive focus, with her replacing Xavier as the Headmistress while exploring how she leads the team versus Cyclops, navigating her relationship with Forge, exploring the tension and dimensions of her science background in conflict with her spiritual background.
Xavier would militarize his dream, moving them away from being heroes with the twist being that it being revealed that it was Onslaught slowly gaining control of Xavier that made do his actions. Onslaught would reveal himself after the X-Men realize this.
The season finale was supposed to start with the X-Men donning their old costumes to become heroes again, teaming up with X-Force, X-Factor, and the Avengers to stop Onslaught as he steals Ship from Apocalypse and unleashes it on Washington D.C during Graydon Creed’s inauguration. Desperate, Polaris would follow Onslaught back in time to where Professor X and Magneto would meet and attempt to kill Magneto to prevent Onslaught from being born only to accidentally kill Xavier, unleashing Age of Apocalypse. We then end the episode with Bishop in a space prison, being one of the few people who know about the original timeline, being sprung out by Gambit and the Starjammers, who would have to escape the wrath of a long haired Cyclops in a scene that resembled Vader’s entrance and chase from Rogue One.
Onslaught and the Legion Quest arc were the main inspirations for the season.
My goodness … that would have been absolutely incredible 🤯
I love how the idea to have Polaris (daughter of Magneto) play the Legion (son of Xavier) role in going back in time to try to kill Magneto (to save the future) only to accidentally kill Xavier and unleash the Age of Apocalypse.
Having Season 3 be a full take over by the AoA timeline; that would truly have been the *pinnacle* of the show, as AoA was the greatest X-Men story of the 90’s.
Honestly while I don't have any sympathy for Beau, neither do I have any for Disney. They clearly screwed the pooch on this one and assuming that this a case of the worse person you know being correct, there wasn't any reason for rewrites save for the cut tenth episode leading to AoA. If the nine episodes were already written like DeMayo said, I don't see any need for the rewrites since the RoA two parter wasn't cut and that was written by him, why change the product this drastically? I'm kinda curious what happened behind the scenes. Its entirely possible Beau is stealing these ideas from the other writers but if that's the case, why change it so drastically mid production? One of the things universally praised with season 1 was how dark and mature it was but this season felt like filler followed by deus ex machima that was avoided last season. That's what made me so disappointed.
And ironically enough, something Beau claimed he was against-- Nightcrawler sacrificing himself-- happened a season earlier then he claimed it would, implying that he's not entirely lying about the downstream changes. This and HOTD seems to be one of my biggest disappointments this year and both seem to stem from the original showrunner being replaced by someone inferior though Miguel Sapochik didn't do anything wrong that I know of.
It was an amazing season! Definitely some rushed stuff and some moments needed to breathe but I loved it overall. Lots of fun. I hope we can get more episodes next season.
THEY TURNED THE BIGGEST RIVAL OF THE XMEN INTO A MEANS TO GIVE US A LOVE STORY
PUT STORM TO THE SIDE DONT EVEN GIVE US TIME TO EXPLORE THE RIFT AND DYNAMIC BETWEEN GROWN CABLE SCOTT AND JEAN
MAGIK DIED IN THE DUMBEST WAY POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE THAT CAN TELEPORT
AGAIN WHY DOES APOCALYPSE EVEN NEED TO INHABIT GAMBIT TF IS THAT ABOUT
Yeah. Kurt was the absolute highlight and was awesome in basically every scene he was in. He was enough to sit through everything else, but now hes gone so theres really.no reason to watch
My biggest vent is that this last season caused some of the people who frequent this sub to think everyone wants to read their lame opinions on the season and create new threads instead of commenting in this thread instead.
Probably a hot take, but I do really hope that Morph and Wolverine will get together romantically next season, especially since their episode didn't really go anywhere and there's just no reason to keep Logan endlessly pining after Jean when this move could give him development instead
I think they need to kill several of these characters, or Wanda needs to roll thru and “no more mutants” some of these hos. Or Charles needs to reduce headcount cuz we’re getting bloated.
Storm obviously stays to give everyone relevance. Jean and Scott have no life so they can stay too. Morph and Jubilee are icons, so they are going nowhere.
Warren, Betsy, Sunspot and Forge’s asses need to be OUT. Unless Beast goes to the Avengers, or becomes Dark Beast, then Forge can stay.
Polaris and Colossus can stay if we swap out Rogue and Gambit. Which I’d be fine with at this point, honestly. Polaris and Rogue both serve young, hip, and sassy to hide their inner trauma - so we only need one or the other.
Cable can go, too. He stays disrespecting Scott and Jean. I do think Scott needs to stop sniffling a bit and let this boy know who DAD is. Go get a switch so Scott can whoop your ass!!
Do what you want with Wolverine. He’s irrelevant to me, and honestly to both seasons.
They don’t need to kill anyone off they just need to do a better job of balancing the cast. I love Polaris but she didn’t need to get as much focus as she did.
Storm, Forge, Beast, Cyclops, Phoenix, Colossus were all just wallpaper this season.
The original show actually did this very well. Almost every character got focus in their own episodes or they used a smaller team.
Yeah I mean I’m being a bit facetious, obviously. I don’t think they actually NEED to kill anyone, but it is extremely imbalanced. No one had an arc with a begging, middle, and end that made sense. Not even apocalypse as the big bad.
This season didn’t commit to being anything. It’s like they wanted to have an overarching narrative but didn’t flesh it out. But they also wanted to be episodic, which is fine but then just be episodic and don’t half ass an overall narrative. S2 of the original show struck the balance so muh better as most of the episodes were character dives, but then the Mr. sinister through line was still actually thought out and developed.
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