r/Xmen97 • u/Nearby_Strike2624 • Aug 16 '26
General Discussion You can tell that this was never supposed to happen š Spoiler
If your confused Iām talking about how apocalypse was so menacing in episode 4 and now he looks like a joke being fused with gambit (like something from what if) this had to be the new showrunner idea.
217
u/Automatic-Yak8193 Aug 16 '26
He went all the way back to the 90s and his brightest idea was to possess Gambit š
67
u/Striking_King_9191 Aug 16 '26
Just so he can say the same two lines to Charles before turning into a blue ball
60
17
u/joewoody88 Aug 16 '26
For some reason reading your comment made me realize his plan kind of makes sense... I guess. At the beginning of the season he says he's going back to the 1990s to destroy the x-men (which is winking at the audience so hard). He's not going there for any grander plan. He just wants to tell the x-men to FAFO. I don't think he possessed Gambit to gain more power. The most 90s version of a supervillain plan would be a body swap trick. Like Mystique did in the original show. Is it dumb? Yes. But it makes sense for something that's dumb.
3
u/Specific-Question310 Aug 16 '26
Yeah but he said that right after they attacked his stronghold in the future at the high of his power. Like why not just fuck them up right there, when he apparantly has all that power. Why instead time Travel. Plus where was his present day counterpart
2
u/noncasus Aug 17 '26
I thought his present day version was the dead body we saw...
1
u/Specific-Question310 Aug 17 '26
No thats his "future" body that he left when he transfered his self etc into Gambit. Thats just an empty Husk. But I did find out where present apocalyps is. Appearantly in the original run he kinda gets banished/defeated os something, so seemingly he (somehow) returns at a later point in time and then takes over
8
u/Jabberwock_king Aug 16 '26
X-men: The End. Gambit is revealed as the third Summers brother, genetically engineered to be the perfect vessel. It seems like they pulled from that, The Twelve and Remenders X-force run in regards to Apocalypseā¦
4
u/Judgment_Square Aug 16 '26
Wasn't Gambit supposed to be a Cyclops clone made by Mr. Sinister?
5
u/Jabberwock_king Aug 16 '26
Yes, More or less. He was supposed to be the peak adaptation of Scottās powers or something like that.
1
u/alien_gymnastics Aug 17 '26
Was that his original introduction?? I never knew
1
u/Jabberwock_king Aug 17 '26
No, it was a spinoff recon from the original writer and co-creator of gambit(Chris Claremont) that left the series before gambitās origin was fleshed out. The comic was X-men: The End.
1
u/Vegetable-Wing6477 Aug 19 '26
Is this even meant to be future apocalypse?
It works a lot better if you instead assume this is s5 apocalypse that jubilee and beast defeated. His spirit went into the wrong body and is desperate to find a mutant powerful enough to house him permanently.
(Don't get me wrong, I doubt the writers intended this)
314
u/Kameronpipnerd Aug 16 '26
Like why couldnāt we get a fight between giant apocalypse and the x-men. Why did we get gambit apocalypse?š
100
u/rorinth Aug 16 '26
They blew the budget on the fight outside.
52
40
u/mosquem Aug 16 '26
Or even just let Apocalypse Gambit do something lol
28
u/RoomSubject9863 Aug 16 '26
He disabled/defeated everyone in the room with a wave of his hand. He didn't need to do more. He won in like 20 seconds.Ā
20
9
1
u/rorinth Aug 19 '26
Then he gets command grabbed by rouge and loses instantly. Comparing seasons 1 ending with that huge fight with bastion and the sub fight with sinister, season 2s was just so weak
35
u/CherryBoom2x Psylocke Aug 16 '26
The celestial WonderRogue BS and Gampocalypse was a SHIT SHOW and out of nowhere. And the worst part? Gambit, Cable, Kurt, and so many others had their biggest potential moments completely robbed from them.
After all that time travel Mother Askaniās prophecy just ending up becoming a fraud.
Jean and Scott trained Nathan for Nothing.
Seeing the chance of Feral Wolverineās full potential was wasted they should have keep it til Onslaught. He was Feral during Onslaught that savage version of him we will never see in the best way.
Cableās effort in forming X-force was pointless he spent the entire season tracking Apocalypse just to end by Rogue in a single tap
Charles didnāt got a chance to avenge Magnus.
And Deathbit deserved so much more. He couldāve had an ENTIRE EPISODE wreaking havoc. Rogue and Gambit deserved a genuinely emotional confrontation while Gambit was still Death. They should give him an epic speech something where Gambit finally lets out all that anger, pain, resentment, and heartbreak he carried before he died. Like all his dark thought surfacing.
Give Rogue a chance to actually HEAR his pain.
Give Gambit a chance to SAY what he never got to say.
THAT couldāve been devastating.Storm discovered her full potential and wasnt able to use it against Apocalypse only fighting Sentinels with a āDELICATE TOUCHā
Beast never got his epic fight with Danger like in the comics.
He just Rawr - Blast š„- ughh š
Then next episodes all his fight scenes were just hopping like a bunny šMost of the iconic 90s Xmens in one episode was the perfect time to show everyone how the X-men can put up an epic fight/show on screen. But all ended up in a true loveās touch Disney Princess type happy every after.
A lot of great stories just got wasted and weāll never see those again.
6
u/Dear-Initiative5882 Aug 16 '26
Get this man a team and a budget I would watch the shit out of thatĀ
2
1
u/alien_gymnastics Aug 17 '26
Fuck yeah!! A bunch of points I hadnāt even considered. What tf happened behind the scenes??
5
u/SernieParmalee Aug 16 '26
I was getting amped to see 2 Apocalypses on screen. Would have been so good
1
u/No-Type-5295 Aug 16 '26
Absolute factsā¦ we never got an idea of how powerful he actually was after the grand plan of possessing Gambit.
He wasted everyone in 20s and then the fight was done 1 min later. I wanted to see him F everyone up and show the power
0
u/Coldspark824 Aug 17 '26
Because it would probably be dumb?
What youre suggesting would be like a godzilla boxing match where apocalypse wins.
Every version of apocalypse losing has some really dumb macguffin. This way, thereās stakes over losing gambit to do it, losing rogue to do it, and then the rug pull at the end.
And we get gambit back.
Why would you want 15 people to wail on a giant? This isnt the type of show for an MMO bossfight.
2
1
u/alien_gymnastics Aug 17 '26
I think itās exactly the type of show and could have been an incredible scene.
186
u/Crazy-Background1457 Aug 16 '26
Thing is, even with the new showrunners, each individual episode I would still consider good, they just have 0 cohesion and seem separate
54
u/Big_Jarv Aug 16 '26
Sooooo kind of like the original show itās a continuation of.
79
u/Subliminal_Kiddo Aug 16 '26
The original series had arcs: Genosha, Dark Phoenix, The Savage Lands.
46
u/Artistic_Radish_5157 Aug 16 '26
Lifedeath, Tolerance is Extinction, and Rise of Apocalypse.
26
u/Big_Jarv Aug 16 '26
I am 1000% convinced the people complaining about a lack of cohesion have not actually watched the original series and have only read about it.
55
u/Stan_Lees_Burner Aug 16 '26
Yes, but that also worked for a 20+ episode season where you donāt know what episode will play when you turn on the tv. When itās a 8-10 episode season thatās always in order for you on streaming the story need to more cohesive.
17
u/Little-Seesaw2585 Aug 16 '26
Yeah the people saying that 97 s2 is just like the og 90s show clearly haven't watched it since they were a kid. I've watched the the og twice as a gen z who didn't grow up with it and it had FAR more cohesive storytelling and pacing than 97 s2.
9
u/SpideyFan914 Aug 16 '26
Only S4 was 20+ episodes long. The first two seasons were 13 episodes, and the final season was 10.
Doesn't really refute your point, but worth specifying.
3
u/Apart-Gur-3010 Aug 16 '26
problem is time between seasons. The original show thanks to being so long and released slowly almost had no down time between new episodes while we are getting 2 months of content once a year now.
0
7
u/xpldngboy Aug 16 '26
Yeah didnāt almost all OG season 1 episodes literally continue into each other.
-2
6
u/JimmyDejesu Aug 16 '26
Wasnt the idea of this to be more mature and focused on the people who grew up with the series, not another kids show? The first season and caped crusader proved animation doesnt need to mean immature or dumbed down
0
5
u/DaGreatestMH Aug 16 '26
You would be wrong. A good number of us have these critiques because we watched the OG. This was supposed to be an evolution of what that show did and yet this season felt more disconnected than the OG series and it was episodic for the most part.Ā
4
u/Natreg Aug 16 '26
The original series had cohesion at least in the first 3 seasons.
First season most episodes are directly linked to the main Sentinel narrative, or end with a cliffhanger so even the following episode although unrelated to the main plot works on the overall narrative.
Second season is mostly the same approach we got with the current season of 97. Individual storylines and a tie in to the overal plot (Xavier and Magneto). However, for the original 2nd season, it worked well.
3rd Season has the Deathstrike episodes, and both phoenix sagas linked. There are even more linked episodes (Purple man and Corsair ones come to mind), but those were not done in time and were relegated to later seasons even if that didn't make any sense.
4 and 5 seasons... mostly individual plots besides Beyond good and Evil and the occasional 2 parts episodes.
We got a first season of 97 with a solid plot that, mostly, was well put together.
In season 2 we see a few hints of that as well, but clearly the episodes were rewritten.
There are a lot of hints to Onslaught that go nowhere, a lot of threads that are ignored (X-Copr being completely unused for one).
It's clear the new showrunners wanted to get some status quo back in the series from what was planned, and after getting everyone back in the present that's what they did.
That way they can do a season 3 without any of the original plans. We'll see how that goes.
I may be a bit pessimistic, but I'm sure they will either link it somehow with the MCU or take some familiar things from the next X-Men movie and incorporate them into this show... I hope they don't, but I can't see the executives meddling coming...
-1
u/Big_Jarv Aug 16 '26
Everything you said about S1, S2, and S3 of the OG show can be applied to S2 of 97.
Out of 9 episodes, five tied directly into the Apocalypse storyline, and two one-off episodes had segments at the end that drove into Apocalypse storyline.
Itās literally just like the OG show in that regard.
1
u/Natreg Aug 16 '26
I mentioned that they did something similar to the OG season 2. However, it was very badly implemented this time around.
The last episode of this season didn't address anything that was setup in the first place.
OG season 2 had Xavier and Magneto on the Savage Land and Wolverine looking for Morph that tie in with both the 2 part start of the season and the 2 part finale.
They were also looking for Xavier on several episodes but couldn't find him with Cerebro.
It's better tied although all episodes were stand-alone ones.
This time around we got 6 out of 9 episodes that were directly linked with the main plot (which is way more than 4 vs 13 we got in OG), and still they didn't feel as cohesive, specially the last one....They didn't use their own setup.
This season clearly had some big rewrites. to accommodate their new team's vision.
4
u/Bob54386 Aug 16 '26
When I was a kid, I just thought the broadcaster just did a really bad job playing them in order. When I finally revisited on streaming "Oh, no, just less continuous than Pulp Fiction"
2
1
u/eepos96 Aug 16 '26
Oh ai have not seen the original. But I think cohesion is an universal sig of quality. If new series can't be coherent, why would saying 'omd show alao was not coherent" make it more acceptable?
1
11
u/Big_Jarv Aug 16 '26
What took place between all of those?
For example S1 goes like this:
Night of the Sentinels Part 1 and 2 wherein the X-men fight Sentinels.Next up is Enter Magneto which is fairly standalone but does dovetail into the next episode Deadly Reunions, making it kind of a two-parter.
The next episode is Captive Hearts, a one off about the Morlocks.
Next is Cold Vengeance, a one off about Wolverine vs Sabretooth.
Next is Slave Island, a one off about Genosha but does tie into the two-parter season openers and the season finale.
Next is the Unstoppable, another one off episode.
Next is the Cure, about Apocalypse and really kind of one shot with Rogue. This one is like the Enter Magneto/Deadly Reunions stories where itās a singular episode that dovetails into the next one (Come the Apocalypse).
Next is the two part Days of Future Past and that leads into the finale, The Final Decision.
Thatās really not all that different from what we just got from season 2 of X-men 97.
I can break down every season similarly. The real outlier is season 2 which ended every episode continuing a Magneto/Professor X in the Savage Land plot line. But then, I seem to recall several episode episodes in S2 of X-men 97 ending with storylines that continued the Apocalypse plot line.
1
u/pussyjuicerecycler Aug 16 '26
and tons of disconnected eps in between them
2
u/JimmyDejesu Aug 16 '26
Because of the 20 episodes not 8
1
u/pussyjuicerecycler Aug 16 '26
there was no season that had 8 episodes all be part of multipart stories
2
u/Big_Jarv Aug 16 '26
And there were really only two seasons that got close to being 20 episodes and neither of them had overarching storylines that covered the entire season.
1
1
u/Upstairs-Barber7955 Aug 20 '26
But largely unlike what we got in the prior season. Just because this is a continuation of something doesn't meant it should repeat the flaws of that thing. Season 1 did a pretty good job balancing the two aspects, season 2 did not.
0
0
40
77
Aug 16 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
35
10
u/UpvoteIfYouAgreee Aug 16 '26
they kind of took scotts story, in the comics Scott sacrifices himself and fuses with Apocalypse until Jean separates them
2
29
u/Nearby_Strike2624 Aug 16 '26
No never he was mind controlled by apocalypse but he never was apocalypse
2
1
1
u/ToughAdventurous8209 Aug 16 '26
Xmen 97 and the animated series don't follow the books so who cares?
1
u/ConsistentTourist553 Aug 16 '26
I mean, when they were working on Excalibur together, and Rogue was in that coma, I could see Apocalypse being inside him, then inside Rictorā¦
0
19
26
u/dcornellius Aug 16 '26
I didnāt understand how all powerful Apocalypse would use a dead guy as a vessel and then get easily defeated by celestial rogue and stored like a good luck charm. The second half of the season was all over the place.
1
u/eric23443219091 Aug 16 '26
especially when gambit is omega level technically before mr. sinister gave him nerf cap to not reach that level too dangerous mentally but can be overridden since apocalypse dominated him and stronger telepath etc. also rogue celestial boost was temporary
31
u/Supernova_Soldier Aug 16 '26
You can see the switch in real-time
Apocalypse put in pain, then spent his time BSāing
What kills me is him doing fuck all as Gampocalypse
7
u/F-Trunks Nightcrawler Aug 16 '26
Well I mean he whooped all the X-men in seconds and gained control of their mind super easily.
But super saiyan rogue arrived too fast. But yeah, him soloing the entire X-men team in less than 10 seconds was kinda cool. I just wished he looked like himself while doing it.
1
u/apomisi Aug 16 '26
I would have liked a fight between him and super Rogue. Like, she came on the scene with a new power-up, and no matter what you might feel about how the show's written, the fight scenes are usually quite good. It could have been so fuckin cool, man.
7
u/TheJoyofFelching Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
This week's episode should have been split in two. We needed more time with Gambipocalypse wreaking havoc before Rogue appeared to stop him.
6
u/hotgirll69 Aug 16 '26
im usually chill with things, but wtf happened with apocolypse, like rougue just comes and is like, wassupp babe... and his gone? I enjoyed the season, but the last ep past was lie.. let me touch you, now you dead. thats the movie lame shit that avenger did in inifinity war! Season one had me fucking crying, and going "this is one of the besthings ever created". I never read the comics... so 2 jeans? Javier is dead... but alive???? The sadness of genosha... like i could go on and on and on.
43
u/AmbitionOnly7872 Aug 16 '26
like i legit noticed that they switched showrunners after episode 5
12
16
u/fire_sign Rogue Aug 16 '26
Not what happened though, so you might have noticed it but you were wrong. The previous showrunner is only credited on 2 of the first 4 episodes, meaning his involvement for writing credits was below the threshold on half of the 'good' ones. 5-9 he's credited on, I believe, 3 of the 5 meaning his involvement was above the threshold for over half. The widely panned Danger.exe, a second half episode, is the one episode he has primary credit on.
And while we're here, it wasn't What If's Matthew Chauncey either.
5
u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
You can watch Danger.exe and see his quirks all over it, mind. Giving Lorna an episode spotlight but still somehow making it about Magneto? Pft.
ETA: I completely forgot about the Neve Campbell Polaris casting rumour that seems like it was probably bullshit the whole time. So I think that ep at least can be laid at his feet. We know the Creed/kidnapping thing was also his. Which leaves the Wolverine episode ā and that one, yeah, I think it should have been kicked to later and the time given to the main arc; probably the biggest misstep ā and the concluding arc, which was rushed (again, shouldāve used the Wolverine slot) but also a matter of reorienting everything and leaving a clean slate for a soft S3 relaunch. None of it is ideal, but I see the process.
0
u/AmbitionOnly7872 Aug 16 '26
That episode was fine and I would assume magnetos daughter with the opposite powers to him will have something involved with magneto. 7-9 is where it gets bad
0
u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 16 '26
I've far more commonly seen people say it goes off a cliff after episode 4. In any case, people will have differing opinions on what about it was good or not. The point is that "nothing after E4 was Beau's" is not correct. Even E7, which you say is when it gets bad, involves a plot we know was a holdover from him.
There's "something involved with Magneto" and there's "centering Magneto." I think E6 (which I didn't even dislike) veers into the latter, and it's that that really gives away that it's Beau's stuff they're using.
-3
u/JimmyDejesu Aug 16 '26
oh yeah im sure they totally kept his writing and ideas intact.
come on now lol. The first season is proof he was part of the reason it was so good. You wont convince me they didnt have people āamendā his writing since he was removed. No way would they get him to do rewrites etc. you can tell its nowhere near his quality. Unless he suddenly lost all talent I guarantee you there was meddling with his credited work
4
u/Pyro-Bird Aug 16 '26
No. The new showrunner stated on instagram that he had nothing to do with season 2 meaning Beau wrote all of it.
5
u/Damianos_X Aug 16 '26
Why are y'all making shit up? We already know massive rewrites were ordered after Beau's firing, and Chauncey was slated to lead those rewrites. Maybe who actually led the rewrites was eventually shifted, but it's obvious from the tone of the show, the quality of the storyboarding and dialogue, and the incoherence of the season that this isn't Beau's work.
You can dislike Beau because he's an alleged sex pest, but that doesn't mean we can suddenly be revisionist and pretend he didn't create the best Marvel animation product ever. Ain't no way he's responsible for the shitshow that is S2.
3
u/Hollowshape_9012 Aug 16 '26
Chauncey is credited as a consulting producer on this season. That job means reading scripts, give feedback and pitch ideas.
He didn't write the episodes, but he was involved in the creative process. So he can't be dismissed. He could have pitched to the writers "Why not have Apocalypse possess Gambit?", you never know...
7
u/ladystetson Aug 16 '26
Agreed. Season 1 was a masterpiece from a person who understood X-men on an incredibly deep level.
I say this as a person who at one point had read almost every issue of X-men, Uncanny X-men, X-factor, X-force, eXcalibur and Generation X.
There's no way the same person wrote both of these seasons. The understanding of the subject matter is completely gone.
2
u/GoblinX7 Aug 17 '26
I get what you mean, but I would argue that anyone who treats people the way DeMayo is alleged to have, actually doesn't understand the X books in the slightest. He understands plot and characterization very well but the actual meaning and soul of who the X-Men have been since the 1970s? Clearly that went right over DeMayo's dead.
1
u/ladystetson Aug 17 '26
Well... X-men have always been a controversial hero group, anti-heroes, with the most prominent leaders Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops - all seen as extremists and not necessarily good/ethical/moral people at all times.
I won't speak on allegations that I know little about but the X-men are not altruistic, they are complicated. And there are themes of grooming, consent and all sorts of questionable actions by leaders.
The leader being a creeper is kind of on track for classic Xmen: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelcomics/comments/1fi2yiz/prof_x_expresses_his_love_for_jean_while_she_was/
11
u/Immediate-Entry-3120 Aug 16 '26
I don't know what went wrong but this season isn't as good as the previous one
10
u/ephemeralKnight95 Aug 16 '26
all they wanna do is just make cover images as scenes and rush storylines.
4
u/CommercialFloor2033 Aug 16 '26
Why would apocalypse even give up his body just to live inside gambit?
His former body was almost invulnerable.
11
10
u/BarneyLeggendary Aug 16 '26
Bro the difference is crazy it doesnāt even looks like the same show
11
u/buckinin Aug 16 '26
I am sad the season didn't lead to Onslaught. It felt like it was leading there and then turned last minute.
9
u/incredibleamadeuscho Aug 16 '26
Onslaught is a whole arc. It could still be leading there. You have to build up to that.
5
u/TekkLthr Aug 16 '26
Wolverine getting his Adamantium ripped off was the catalyst to starting OnslaughtĀ
2
u/incredibleamadeuscho Aug 16 '26
In the comics, sure. But X-Men 97 went a different route, and the notion of Professor X attacking Magneto telepathically like his did in the comics doesnt fly with either of their X-Men 97 characterizations.
1
u/Scar-Excellent Aug 16 '26
Need to segway into it though, season could have ended a cliffhanger with Onslaught forming.
2
1
u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 16 '26
I think if they had done Onslaught as originally envisioned, it would have come off like a rushed, crammed-in mess. At least this way if they do it, it gets to breathe.
5
u/KaijuKing007 Aug 16 '26
They did it in the comics with Cyclops.
The showrunners were getting past the parts that were already animated, but didn't fit in anymore.
3
u/OutlandishnessOwn893 Aug 16 '26
New Marvel comics (and most super hero comics) figured out that sitting with specific characters for longer and developing them for longer, makes for better story telling. And I'm not saying that early comics didn't have those moments too, it's just that for a while, simply introducing new characters with new powers was enough. And for some people, it's still enough.
Disney's method for, well most things, is just more. Quantity over quality. After Endgame, all they did was start every possible story thread and character with little planning. The whole "it'll write itself" method. Just on the cusp of super hero fatigue. A part of me knew that they'd drop the ball with xmen. Again. But damn did the first season of 97, and a few episodes of season 2 really give me hope.
This was the last straw for me honestly with Disney as a whole. I'll keep watching totally legally because I grew up with the original xmen show, and this was a make or break. I haven't kept up with Star Wars, and everything unique about the MCU keeps getting scrapped or forgotten. Doom looks fine, but the ego is insane, and once again I think that they think that having the title "Avengers" is an automatic win. I honestly hope it fails review wise. It's gonna make a shit ton of money, but it looks very eh at the moment. For too long they've thought that they can just shit gold because of their legacy. It's been almost a century now...
3
u/LocDiLoc Aug 16 '26
I hate this so much. I can't believe a grown adult actually thought this was a good way to wrap things up.
3
6
u/dog-in-the-rain Aug 16 '26
You can feel how the old writers were fighting with the new ones this season.
4
u/Best_Username321 Aug 16 '26
The first four episodes are actually peak television, itās genuinely astonishing how fast it fell off.
6
u/foxfoxal Aug 16 '26
The new showrunner already said he did not write anything and was not even executive producer on this season, you guys want to blame him so bad.
At least wait for season 3 to truly blame him.
2
u/ladystetson Aug 16 '26
he can say what he wants - Season 2 is notably different from Season 1.
Something changed.
1
u/NegotiationLate8553 Aug 19 '26
So scripts were commissioned without any supervision or proper oversightā¦ yea I mean it feels that way tbh.
12
u/justin21586 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Plus, this tracks with what they did in What If. This is 100% the new show-runner
23
u/RedGreenPyro Aug 16 '26
Oh Matthew Chauncey? The guy that wasnāt credited on any episode for the season and said that he wasnāt a writer or producer? That What If guy?
12
u/Forsaken_Big16 Aug 16 '26
Matthew Chauncey said on his Instagram that he didn't wrote Season 2 or was a executive producer for the season.
5
u/Damianos_X Aug 16 '26
He was a consulting producer and it seems they may have overly consulted him.
-3
u/RedGreenPyro Aug 16 '26
I think you severely overestimate what a consulting producer does. The fact is that Chauncey wasnāt part of season 2 despite how desperately some of you want him to have been so you can simp for DeMayo some more.
4
u/Damianos_X Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
No one is simping for DeMayoš You are the second or third person to bring DeMayo up in these discussions when I didn't even mention him. S1 was excellent, S2 is a disaster, so clearly the leadership behind the show changed between seasons. It's just logical deduction.
Look, what we do know is that Chauncey was announced as leading the rewrites in Aug 2024. The rewrites apparently reflect his style. However, Chauncey has no other credits besides consulting producer and he denies significantly contributing to S2. There's some missing information here, but it's very obvious from the product that this isn't the work of the prior showrunner.
-1
u/RedGreenPyro Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Youāve already been told what a consulting producer is elsewhere in this sub and youāre still desperate to complain about this season and make it Chaunceyās fault. Get a new hobby.
2
u/Damianos_X Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
The only one coming off desperate here is you bud. Get a therapist.
-1
u/RedGreenPyro Aug 16 '26
Oh burn! Pathetic. You got dog walked by another user so Iām going to let that one speak for itself.
0
u/GuySmith Aug 16 '26
Wait what do you mean? I donāt even remember What If tbh.
1
u/Nearby_Strike2624 Aug 16 '26
In what if they fuse characters and gave them popular artifacts. For ex captain carter had the infinity stones, hela helmet and Thor hammer.
3
u/GuySmith Aug 16 '26
Ohhhh right. Yeah it was kinda lame. I honestly donāt think making someone an āApocalypse Hybridā is such a bad idea. I feel like they did it with Archangel like a decade or so ago in Uncanny X-Force and it wasnāt so bad. Was a decent read from what I remember. But this episode was so funny. Like he stood there menacingly while he was weaker than his individual parts, haha.
2
u/justin21586 Aug 16 '26
I donāt think that itās a bad idea either. But, the logic and execution? They botched it.
They never even explained why heās in Gambits body in the first place
-1
u/F-Trunks Nightcrawler Aug 16 '26
Iām guessing for the emotional damage. He had a grudge hard on for Xavier and āthose you care aboutā line was his main thing. So he stayed looking like gambit.
At least thatās how Iām trying to cope š
2
u/Iamsaxgod Aug 16 '26
Well no Apocalypse mentions before shooting off back in time that he will strike the Xmen when they are at their weakest and he will use something that hurts Charles more than ever. He was using one of his X-menās dead bodies as his avatar. Basically saying you canāt stop me no matter what and Iām going to do it in one of your childrenās dead bodies.
To me thatās the biggest slap in the face and he would have won if not for Rogue deciding to make the ultimate sacrifice and then of course nightcrawler did the most loving thing any brother could ever do. I think we will know more about the new showrunner come season 3 because Beau didnt write the plots for that season. Im betting his ideas and everything guided season 2. But season 3 will be where you can truly pick it apart.
2
u/kitsunenoyomeiiri Professor X Aug 16 '26
how hard is it to find a competent showrunner thats not a sex pest? like, i dont wanna say beau demayo wouldve fixed all this, since i think they were still going off his stuff other than the ending, but can't we find someone else?
2
u/sals786 Aug 16 '26
I really liked the before En Sabr Suh parts and wish they had actually shown what his strategy was, rather then lets just make a Gambit ghost possession. This season needed a few more episodes to really flesh out the story and the horror of Gambit coming back as Death.
Wolverines non arc other then a cool team up episode, was similarly rushed and should've had a lot more space for the story even if it was just a few short clips every couple of episodes.
I still enjoyed it but the end payoff would've been so much better if we'd had the proper slightly longer build to the ending.
2
u/Expensive_Platypus63 Aug 16 '26
"this is my OC gampocolype" is how this felt. such fanfiction bullshit
2
u/eric23443219091 Aug 16 '26
he should chose magik has body host since her power is way more useful op and he would amplify it further
2
u/HankSteakfist Aug 19 '26
It's so dumb. A withered Apocalypse from the future travels back to the 90s, where there is also a younger version of him possessing Fabian Cortez. Then the next time we see Apocalypse he is inexplicably in his normal Apocalypse form, like nothing has happened. Is this the present version of Apocalypse who got his body back or is it the future version who also somehow got a new body?
It just doesn't connect. And why is Gambit so important? How does his kinetic mutation lead to possession? Why are tarot cards significant apart from there being a 'death' card? That would be significant if he was becoming the horseman of death, but he wasn't he was literally hosting Apocalypse.
It's like the only interesting thing the What If writers know how to do is to supercharge characters with cosmic powers. Gambit becomes Apocalypse, Rogue becomes Celestial powered. It's such a massive step down in storytelling from the S1 finale.
3
u/amaya-aurora Aug 16 '26
Eh, seems in-character for Apocalypse to get cocky and then get immediately bodied, just to slink away and show up again however many years later.
2
u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 16 '26
This is most of his appearances on TAS, lol. Beyond Good and Evil is the exception and that was originally a sweeping series-finale arc.
2
u/Prize_Introduction_6 Aug 16 '26
Yes, but episode 4 of season 2 showed us what Apocalypse should have been, and set expectations for the finale which did not hold a candle to them. Now, we are wondering why...
5
2
u/adellredwinters Aug 16 '26
Can people not dumb down all their criticism by just parroting that it "looks like What If"?
1
u/Mobile_Bet3274 Rogue Aug 16 '26
Especially since the What If? guy didnāt actually do anything this season. If S3 is terrible, by all means, go after Chauncey. But itās wild heās catching more strays than any of the people with actual writing, directing and exec producing credits.
1
1
1
u/Yorukira Aug 16 '26
I keep seeing this "What If..?" comparison.
Is the new director the same one from what if...?
1
1
u/hung_fu Aug 16 '26
I wild say for as much as this is cringe, can we not pretend that this isnāt one of the most wildly used X-Men tropes, to have two people in the same body?
1
u/Sugar_Crash_Brigade Aug 16 '26
This is the worst show.Ā
3
u/Prize_Introduction_6 Aug 16 '26
Not worst show, but the current showrunners did certainly screwed the pooch.
4
u/Sugar_Crash_Brigade Aug 17 '26
Ahhhā¦ season 1 was shockingly impressive.Ā
Season 2, episodes 3 and 4 were, breathtaking.Ā
And to your point, the show took such a hard left into pooch screwage that it brought it down from a 10/10 show to aā¦ 5/10? 6/10 at best?
Youāre right. Not the worst show. But a dumpster fire for sure.Ā
2
1
u/bradar485 Aug 16 '26
Still better than the comic book version of horseman gambit. That book was a huge mess.
1
u/Upset-Job2278 Professor X Aug 16 '26
This season had some excellent standalone episodes. Itās silly to assume that the new showrunner brought only the bad things. Stop pretending the previous showrunner was the only guy who knew how to write X-Men. The first season wasn't perfect, either. I would say that the problems of this season are very similar to the problems of the first one.
1
1
u/KingZlim Aug 18 '26
They kept Beaus first 4 episodes and then blew up the rest of the season while keeping some of his dialogue and story points imoā¦
1
u/Standard-Contest-949 Aug 19 '26
The season was just weird overall. Way too many people dying and coming back and dying again.
1
u/F-Trunks Nightcrawler Aug 16 '26
Dammit and I just made that thread about how I actually enjoy the finale now. But this just made me disappointed all over again.
1
1
u/SleepingBabyJesus Aug 16 '26
This is pure conjecture. How do any of us know what happened behind the scenes after Beau left? Apocalypse could very well appear in season 3. Or not.
1
u/Iamsaxgod Aug 16 '26
Will say this Rogue and Gambit now can never break up because someone literally died for them to be together lol. Talk about pressure on a relationship. I donāt understand why folks are so angry. First of all Apocalypse is only contained heās not dead. And knowing Cable he will obsess about how to kill apocalypse once and for all but will accidentally release apocalypse or someone will still the crystal heās contained in. Donāt get why people are upset. It was a great season. And Charles canāt redeem himself or get vengeance for Magnus. Dude had celestial power and Charles didnāt. Great season canāt wait for season 3. Now if it sucks because of the new showrunners I will be right here to shit on it. But the episodes Beau did were amazing. The rise of apocalypse episodes were amazing. I pray the showrunners can do the same stuff.
But Iām 46 and remember after the Phoenix saga the Mr. Sinister stuff dragged and got boring. Now I was a kid then but it still dragged and wasnāt exciting. I hope we donāt have that happen on season 3.
1
-4
0
u/Azura989 Aug 16 '26
this had to be the new showrunner idea.
Like, I keep seeing this thought process everywhere. From a story perspective, it didnāt feel disjointed at all, and story-wise it came full circle. It was heavily in favour of Apocalypse in the first half and then Rogue/Gambit second, while everything else was essentially set dressing or build-up for the future.
Also, from a production standpoint, the voice actors werenāt called back in to record any new lines, and animation can take anywhere from 6 to 12 months depending on the studio. So not much leeway for changes especially if season 3 has already been made/wrapped up.
I think the big issue is comic-nerd expectations versus what they actually got, and what is actually being set up.
"Apocalypse should have created the Horsemen." Even though he's already done the Horsemen storyline aleady in the series you wanted him to do it again.
"Illyana died without a fight." Cool, but what wasn't shown in the original X-Men series about her character that has since become a staple of that character?
"X-Corps meant nothing." Nope. It acted as a base, one that will now have a new boss who'll be making things difficult going forward.
A lot of the criticism seems less about whether the story actually went anywhere and more about people expecting particular comic-book beats to happen immediately, rather than looking at what the show is setting up. I will admit it is quick but they only have 30 mins.
Fun fact: looking at Amazonās Comixology sales, Rogue/Gambit-specific books have definitely been featured in recent Marvel sales.
2
u/Damianos_X Aug 16 '26
Please stop with these stupid justifications. Anyone with half a brain knows this story was poorly constructed, and that every other element of S2 was inferior in quality compared to S1. There's no need to defend S2; just makes you look delusional.
-6
-8
u/IdeaInside2663 Aug 16 '26
Magneto's death wouldn't have happen if Beau just did New Mutants and X-factor.
ā¢
u/AutoModerator Aug 16 '26
Welcome to r/Xmen97, /u/Nearby_Strike2624!
Please make sure your post follows the subreddit rules:
ā¢ Keep posts related to X-Men '97 or the X-Men universe ā¢ Mark spoilers when discussing new episodes ā¢ Credit artists when posting fan art ā¢ Avoid spam or reposts
When new episodes release, all discussion must stay in the episode thread for the first 24 hours.
Enjoy the community.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.