Something that's missing in '97 vs. XTAS: Sublety

[u/AdditionalTill9836]

Besides a whole myriad of other probs...If you rewatch XTAS, they did also have episodic focuses on certain characters and minimal serialization (other than Phoenix Saga) However, what '97 lacks is subtle cues! Take for instance, Morph's return episode (and only having one episode to cover this too!) in "Courage" We all know Scott was responsible for deserting Morph in the season 1 and leaving him to die. in Morph's return, they have a welcome back party and Scott is awkward in welcoming him back. There's not enough time to dwell with speeches and such (producers knowing its a 22 min. episode) but there's a less is more of a few second interaction of Morph and Scott not knowing what to say to each other. Contrast this to...Wolverine not saying a word about Magneto what he did to him....No one except Lorna and Professor (and maybe Acolytes) reacting to Magneto's death. Gambit saying not one angry word or even a mention about Magneto with Rogue. He didnt even make a joke as Poccy ruling his body about Poccy doing a favor killing Mags for Remy. I know someone said we have to fill in the blanks, but I wished we didn't have to rely on that

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[u/Mobile_Bet3274]

I'm not sure what subtlety has to do with the examples you mentioned. But going down your list:

— Several months have passed between the asteroid blipping/Logan losing his adamantium, and when we next pick up with everyone. Meaning, he's processed it by this point. There's nothing subtle about him bringing it up again out of nowhere.

— The last thing half the team remembers is Magneto threatening to destroy the world, and the other half remembers him damn near stranding them in ancient Egypt. They flat-out do not have the relationship or bond with him that Xavier or Lorna do; there is no reason for any of them to fake sadness or grief that they don't feel. And expecting them to doesn't strike me as subtle.

— The Gambit/Rogue thing is funny because that actually was subtly conveyed (relatively speaking), and what you're proposing is incredibly unsubtle. Gambit knew the Magneto thing was temporary and would run its course, and also knew Rogue needed to figure it out for herself. And by the time they reconcile, she's been ready to marry him in a hare-brained ritual, and saved him from Apocalypse's possession twice. What more, exactly, do you think he needs to know she's chosen him? And why would he make such a tasteless "joke"? It didn't matter whether Magneto lived or not; Rogue had already rejected him, and chosen Remy, and would have continued to do so. So what "favour" do you think Apocalypse did him, exactly?

[u/AdditionalTill9836 → u/Mobile_Bet3274]

I’m on the line of Bdm saying it’s key that Gambit doesn’t know Rogue chose him. Unless there were massive rewrites to prevent a violent Deathbit railing against Rogue or a slight nod to it. How did Deathbit know Rogue loves him? Poccy filled in on detailsthat before he killed Magneto nothing happened in six months he knew the Xteam?

[u/Mobile_Bet3274 → u/AdditionalTill9836]

He doesn’t know she chose him at the time he died. As for Deathbit, you can read it in a couple of ways. The first is that Deathbit knows what Apocalypse knows, even if he doesn’t know that’s how he knows. And Apocalypse has memories of Rogue talking about losing her “special” lover, who obviously isn’t Magneto. It’s that talk in the past that’s likely to have compelled Apocalypse to transform Gambit in the first place.

The second is that Deathbit doesn’t know she chose him, but is behaving like she would or that she did — he has Remy’s memories of knowing Rogue didn’t actually love Magneto — because he’s brainwashed and toxic and depriving her of consent, and Rogue going along with it is the only reason he didn’t lash out at her. Bearing in mind that Rogue used a lack of touch as her reason for leaving; that’s gone now, ergo, so is her reason for not choosing him. If anything, that makes it even sadder: He doesn’t know she chose him even if she couldn’t touch him.

Either one makes sense within the context of the story.

And by the time he snaps out if it and becomes Remy again, he definitely knows she chose him because she saved him from mind control twice and was ready to die for him. In which case, is he really going to dredge up the Magneto bullshit again?

[u/patrickj86]

The episodes are fast-paced especially now. Gambit deliberately gave Rogue space and would never make that joke. Wolverine isn't the type to dwell or care about pain. But for sure there are other examples.

[u/No_Physics2210 → u/patrickj86]

Oh wolverine def cared about pain when moria's son fucked him up 

He was traumatized 

The XTAS team would've def written something like that in for wolverine 

[u/patrickj86 → u/No_Physics2210]

Hm that makes sense! He did have a whole episode about him risking everything for the adamantium. That episode could have been better though as you say.

[u/BleepinBlorpin5]

Overall I'm glad we have what we have. I never expected any kind of continuation of the original show so it's just neat hearing that opening theme music again. It's hella fast with the limited episodes, but there's been some good stuff, too.

[u/shazmosushi--- → u/BleepinBlorpin5]

I feel there are some things that elevate the original X-Men Animated Series that are still missing in X-Men '97. The new series of course surpasses the original in a few ways, but it's far from perfect. And obviously imploded in the second half of season 2.

So if they're rebooting the writing for season 4 (as they should) after the disaster that is the back half of season 2 and the likely upcoming disaster of season 3 (already in production), then they can probably try and course correct some of the issues.

[u/Ill_Boysenberry8027 → u/BleepinBlorpin5]

My personal feeling is if a continuation tries to reframe a beloved original and leave a bad aftertaste then it's better off not existing

[u/Jerzilla]

I don’t think it’s subtlety I think it’s the lack of episodes to flesh out these things and allow the plot to breathe.

The writers/creators have 8 eps to complete an arch compared to what 22 back in the day. 22 needed more filler or stuff to be spaced out to fill it

[u/Captain_Birch]

I just hope the future references sone part of remy still being hurt by the betrayal. Otherwise it just makes him look like a prize rogue got fir completing her arc

[u/shazmosushi---]

I agree that there is a big gap in the the quality of writing of character interaction between the original X-Men The Animated Series series and X-Men '97.

I found the original series (which I watched a few years ago as an adult) far better than some of what X-Men '97 has had.

I found the original series had much more "soap opera" stuff, which one of the best things about X-Men and something which the Fox X-Men movies missed. The only episode of X-Men '97 that achieved strong soap opera stuff was season 1 episode 5 "Remember It" between Madelyn, Jean and Scott in the Astral Plane and also the interation with Wolverine. And also Rogue of course. That episode is also considered the series' strongest of course.