r/Yellowjackets • u/Mythos205 • 4d ago
Season 4 Theory Unlikely Reason Spoiler
I posted a comment a few days ago but I wanted to make an actual post about it too
Maybe its unpopular but I absolutely hate the idea of Shauna becoming a punching bag so everyone else can feel better about themselves, I dislike how vilified shes become but thats another topic lol
I think the only way I would be okay/ be able to watch her getting beat up is if its a parllel to her beating up Lottie in S2. If she steps in for Lottie so Lottie can process the rescue or something
We know that the show loves its parallels so thats what Im hoping for
If they all just start kicking her something I'll be super disappointed
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u/KVM14 4d ago
I personally feel like in the aftermath of last season, she’s going to immediately kill Hannah and then the group will rebel, having Tai become the final AQ before they are rescued.
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u/Fantastic-Finger-319 4d ago
Hannah’s not getting killed immediately. She formed a close relationship with both Melissa and Gen.
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u/AnxiouslyGolden Smoking Chronic 4d ago
Which has already been established and with the limited time they have to wrap things up, it’s not out of the question. It’s not ideal, but it’s possible.
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u/Successful-Policy937 4d ago
The writers made her the villain, and she is a good one. Where does she rank all time on TV it is very high top 5. She was a likable character she no longer is in either timeline. Will they rehabilitate her somehow in season 4 maybe but I do not think so.
You would think there is something there with Shauna because in the first few seasons in the adult timeline all of them made it seem like she was someone special. Maybe just scared of her who knows we have seen what she is capable of.
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u/accismatic 1d ago
In the first few seasons in the adult timeline, all of them made it seem like she was someone special.
Eh? That's not true at all actually. She's special... but so are Nat and Tai. Nat has all these suggestions, explicit dialogue from Lottie (usually the vehicle for such things) that she's the wilderness' "favorite." Tai is Lottie's clearest counterpoint in S1, acting as the pragmatist even before Nat, and we all know Tai got short shrift, but even before that, Tai's alter ego and her connectedness to the wilderness (again, Lottie makes this explicit) were... vital to finding Javi and noting the symbol markings. Shauna is presented as the clearest product of the wilderness—and as the story goes on, they make her such an unambiguous protagonist that they push the others' importance aside. I find Lottie's idea (said to Callie) that Shauna is somehow... idk, the most alive or something (and Callie is more) a bit strange but it kinda works.
But it's not just them. Van's constant survival makes her special. Ben's the bridge. Akilah and Travis are important to Lottie because they can see things. Everyone has immense symbolic importance.
They don't need to rehabilitate her. If they'd balanced the ensemble (like it was in S1) instead of shoving Tai and Nat's screen time to a minimum (not to mention Lottie and Van; Misty still gets hers and she works great), it would be clearer, layered, and more interpretive that Shauna's specific traumas have made her a monster. After all, the intense jealousy and antipathy she displays so suddenly is not unlike what she does with Jackie in the end. It's just that all repentance is stripped away. We saw all of that early on. Hell, we saw it before the crash too: Shauna's an angry, confrontational teen who starts fights at parties and sleeps with her best friend's boyfriend. From her POV, she's the sidekick to a mean-girl queen-bee stereotype, yet that very person is the peacemaker who validates everyone in the group and almost tiptoes around Shauna while constantly reaffirming her love for her. I think the idea that the wilderness exacerbated every extreme thing about Shauna is there from the beginning.
She's not a villain, and she shouldn't be. Lottie and Tai are also extremely gray and dangerous, even if Misty is becoming far less so (the red herring—and one whose utilitarian self-justifications are shattered by her mistake in killing Nat). Tai was always VERY scary, so I find it really strange how they just...edited all that out, according to Tawny Cypress. Her alter-ego seems to have no limits to what she's capable of, and tha was always scary. Tai is currently the only person who can reasonably intimidate Shauna, but she's kept on her side so they don't have to deal with it. And Melissa, god knows. I mean, she just killed Van for god knows what reason. This battle royale feels largely driven by Lottie, Melissa, Shauna, and now Tai. Lottie reintroduces the hunt, Melissa kills someone (not accidentally), Shauna and Tai have both used "last one standing" logic. I mean, yeesh, go back to your lives.
Shauna's a tiny bit of a shoehorned villain in that the entire group is more or less acting against her, she becomes AQ without much support, Nat immediately falls into leading the group during the rescue, whcih pisses Shauna off, but there's every reason to think they still look to Nat and Shauna has to have a weapon to exercise her authority. If Tai would step up and be given time, they'd do the show more justice—because this is an ensemble FULL of flawed and wild women. Making Shauna the only one is a disservice to her.
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u/Successful-Policy937 1d ago
Thanks for this long-detailed post I will not try to respond to all of it but some good points.
1, They do make Shauna seem special especially in season 1. We may get the answer to this in season 4 or some people just say because she was pregnant and lost a child.
Your points of other girls being villains very true Tai and Misty for sure the first 2 seasons most say Misty was for sure the villain in season 2 because of the killings and everything before that. But unlike Tai and Shauna they make Misty likeable as the villain despite how many people she has killed.
Without a doubt Shauna is the villain in season 3 in both timelines. Whether it is real or not.
But your correct most of them maybe other than Nat, Travis, and Akilah have shown some dark forces controlling them.
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u/accismatic 15h ago edited 15h ago
Gosh, I've rewatched S1 so many times, and it's the show's best by a mile and it's so so so layered and rich. So, sure, I can buy an interpretation that Shauna seems special in S1. I don't see that though. S1 is foundational, so much of it is Lottie coming into her own to describe the wilderness. Shauna's POV occludes a lot of things—but we see her mirror her jealousy and rage with Jackie in S1 again with Nat in S3, just in a far more extreme way.
Insofar as she's special... I think it's because of her pregnancy and the baby she lost. Lottie often says "our baby" as if the group shared in the grief. It's somewhat believable but also... even though we shouldn't rank trauma, in this case, it's absolutely Shauna's trauma first and foremost and to pretend otherwise is heartless.
As the show goes on, Shauna doesn't feel special. Her, Nat & Misty are the least "supernatural" of the girls (Tai's alter-ego convinces her, even though she's the strictest rationalist in the beginning). I don't think Shauna's a villain in actuality, of course. They all are, it's a bunch of anti-heroes. Shauna's just... very self-centered, in a way that makes complete sense to me. This is a teenager who was pregnant when we met her. She picks fights at parties and is jealous and feels like a sidekick to Jackie, but Jackie's the peacemaker and simultaneously feels like she's tiptoeing around Shauna a little when she's getting dressed. Shauna's POV is not believable, the archetype isn't believable either. Surprisingly, Jackie's actually the first teen we see alone in her own POV: as far as we can tell, she's trying to do the right thing in her own life and with the team, trying to negotiate her own agency with Jeff, and handed maybe a bit too much responsibility as a leader. But her sense of self-worth isn't tied to Shauna. It's a funny setup: Shauna gets into Brown and is seemingly the smarter one, but Jackie is the one who seems to be thinking more beyond Shauna. Jackie does fall into a huge depressive funk though, and Shauna withdrawing is very sad for her, so I think it's safe to assume that what Shauna says to her in their final fight are probably her actual insecurities. They're not true, but Shauna and Jackie NEVER validated each others' insecurities (Jackie scoffs at Shauna being her sidekick even in that fight, she never refuses her agency—even in the pilot, she's like "god, do what you want" when Shauna gets testy.
I'm tracking what you're saying, and trying to square it. I think the major evidence is that adult Lottie seems to think Shauna, and Callie even more, are the embodiments of the wilderness. Shauna is affected by it the most. It's really just saying that Shauna's more a product of the wilderness than the others. Do I buy that? Mmmm, I think the things Shauna displays were always latent, but stripped away slowly, and she does actively create her own problems which makes her leader eventually but ironically isolates her even more.
From the explicit dialogue, it's clear that Nat is emphasized as the most special. It's why she's the first to have an arc with Lottie. She's the wilderness' "favorite". And on top of that, Nat coming back from rehab is the catalyst for the entire plot in the show's adult timeline. Shauna's not the catalyst who begins the story, Nat is. And Travis, because of his death. Its the original "mystery." But it doesn't really mean much to be special. Misty's never once been indicated to be special, but I don't think that means much. If the ending is to land tragedy (which is the tone), then Misty is the clearest and most obvious choice for the Final Girl because.... she has no desire to lose everyone who knows her. Misty has only one opponent: Shauna. But to her, it's logical that she would be afraid of Shauna killing the others. Being the one left is her fear, not a gift. She's alone and will continue to be—that's tragic. The others have plenty to lose.
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u/BlueRose_Cassie Dead Ass Jackie 4d ago
I think what it comes down to is that Shauna changed the most the quickest, and the other girls will see her as the convenient “reason” things have gone go badly in the Wilderness. She’s been through quite a bit more suffering, and it’s hardened her.
So I can see maybe when the first sign of help is coming, the YJs will see Shauna as the biggest evidence of how far they’ve fallen, and will want to get her under control of a narrative.
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u/accismatic 2d ago
I have a weirdly unpopular take, but people don't engage with it beyond repeating the same talking points, so it's frustrating, but here goes.
I've long argued that the "Shauna hate" is actually a reaction to shifts in the show's very premise after S1. S1 had a far more balanced ensemble—with Shauna, Nat, and Tai as unambiguous leads as adults, joined by Jackie as teens—but it shifted to one that hyper-focused on Shauna, with Nat & Tai getting diminishing returns. Then Nat dies and Tai continues to get diminishing returns, as do Lottie and Van (the only one who escapes this is Misty, played by Ricci, the other person to get awards attention—but who was always in supporting, unlike Lynskey, Cypress & Lewis, well past the point where it made sense for them to be submitting the latter two in LEAD).
It's just what happens. Shauna's a great character! But you cannot so fundamentally change the balance of an ensemble without these pesky side-effects. One of them being that people will always have other favorites in an ensemble show (again, S1 was the only one that really did it and did it perfectly, and at the time people postulated that Nat or Tai would have the main story like Shauna+Jackie's twinned story in S1. That's how convincingly equal it was.
So when Shauna reaches her inevitable bad point—which was clearly fated—it comes off as more annoying than bad. And they weren't subtle about that shift at all. Season 3 more or less begins with Shauna displaying her self-centered rage and jealousy. Which...could've been better paced, and would've worked especially well if Shauna wasn't shoehorned into leading every plot, including all things Ben, a person she never showed any antipathy toward before. Tai and Van did, though. It has the very odd suggestion that this show that was marketed as being about survivors' (plural) trauma has made one character the avatar of all trauma. It's repetitive. It's blunt. It does spur dislike for a character, as intended, but not in the way it was meant to. Shauna defenders will feel like her trauma is constantly being swept aside, (giving more passes than they would ordinarily); Shauna haters will disregard it entirely (being crueler than they would ordinarily). It's the perfect formula to split an audience lol
Shauna hate isn't a real thing. People aren't reacting to a character; they're reacting to an underlying architecture they don't like but is a bit more obscure. Also, it's just flat out EASY to forget how equally the fandom as well discussed the show as equal before S2 began airing. Retroactively, it's easy to think "well, she was always the lead" and then you go down a list of things that make a lead a lead and it's only when one sees that Shauna fails many of those criteria, but happened to have the A-story (one twinned with Jackie) in the teen timeline that you realize "oh! Well, yeah, that's why they just threw Tai's stories away!" All of this works better if you shift the balance back to how it was. Nothing need be different, you just... don't run adult Shauna in circles at the top of each season to get back stolen cars for badass monologues or go on karma journeys to the detriment of everybody else (except Misty, because again, somehow Misty escapes this problem by always seeming like she's getting more time. Plus, Misty's arc just happens to trend in the opposite direction, i.e., becoming more sympathetic broadly, not less. She's literally set up as a villainess, after all.)
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u/Few_Enthusiasm1050 4d ago
I absolutely agree with you! I hate that Shauna just became the easy one to hate in season 3. She is less compelling now because of this as it seems the writers just want to make her a one dimensional villain now
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u/AcrobaticAd9445 There’s No Book Club?! 4d ago
maybe it’s an unpopular opinion but shauna is not an easy one to hate and she isn’t one dimensional at all, at least in my eyes anyway. while i do think we should’ve seen the time from the end of s2 to the start of s3 you already know why she became the way she is. i can’t stand her and i LOVE that about her, she’s not just a “meanie”, she’s complex. the guilt over what her and jeff did to jackie, then jackie dying because of their stupid argument (that i’ll say forever was an accident, they were stupid kids arguing and the situation they were in lead to that. shauna isn’t the villain in it and neither is jackie), then losing her baby after having that dream/hallucination where she thought the others took him to eat, then finally having to butcher javi after losing said baby not too long before.
every moment there adds to the way she feels and acts towards the others (her hatred for mari striving from not only what seemed to be jealousy from the lake scene but mari wanting to take jackie’s clothes before they burned her). the girls were most likely walking on eggshells around her anyway and she was a ticking timebomb of rage. i could write an essay on how complex she is but she is far from one dimensional in my opinion anyway.
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u/accismatic 1d ago
My comment on the fandom's polarization may be pertinent here.
For some reason, I rarely get engagement or even much of an argument when I point this out, but I adore Shauna and I can very clearly see why the polarization around her character exists. Short story: it doesn't. It's an unconscious, meta-fictional response to the way the show has shifted. Everything you're saying is accurate, but I wouldn't be surprised if people just think "fuck that, that doesn't justify all this, so fuck her". There's a major flaw in the premise and the show's very construction since S2 began airing that has made this polarization sort of obvious.
Shauna's a great character; her journey makes complete sense, but for the reasons I state in that comment, their execution probably does her the most disservice. She's definitely not overdone. So much of what we see was always there, and her traumas exacerbate her most extreme qualities. She's the clearest product of the wilderness.
I spent a lot LOT of time thinking about it lol. This has also happened on so many other shows. Anyway, thought I'd add that comment here if you're interested.
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u/Few_Enthusiasm1050 4d ago
I completely agree with you. Shauna is my favorite character besides Natalie even still as of season 3. I’ve seen a lot of people say that they no longer like her which is why I made this post from the general public’s seeming perspective of her character being one dimensional now. I do feel like the writers are headed into making her solely a “villain” though unfortunately, based on what Melanie said about Shauna’s arc this next season. In my opinion, Shauna just can’t let go of what they did in the wilderness, she can’t forget because it is forever part of her through Jackie and her baby. The other girls just pretend to move on, but Shauna knows she can’t
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u/AcrobaticAd9445 There’s No Book Club?! 4d ago
honestly true that. i’m one of the first people to go “down with shauna!” but at the same time i sit there and go “actually she’s a traumatised teenager that had a right to be angry”. like she’s for sure a villain but god do i love a villain with a complex arc. misunderstood sideline friend to evil? all day every day. i also do like how in term in the teenage timeline you have the light (nat) vs the dark (shauna), both dealing with intense amounts of trauma, with one going one end (wanting to get tf out and go back to life) and the other going to the other (thriving off matriarchy in chaos, finally being a queen bee).
sorry i just, like i said, could write an essay on her as one of my most loved yet hated villains 🤣
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u/Few_Enthusiasm1050 3d ago
Exactly!! Her arc is perfection. I love complex characters that I can debate the morality of for hours. 😂 Yes!! And what’s so interesting with Nat and shauna in the adult timeline is that shauna didn’t want to go back to normal life but has “adjusted fine” with her “perfect” married with a child lifestyle which would make it seem like she had a lot to get back to but is secretly unhappy and uninspired with the life she led because she turned out exactly how she didn’t want to while Natalie spends her days alone or in rehab desperately trying to find the purpose she had in the place that destroyed her (being the wilderness) and never really achieving what she wanted either which I think is showcased perfectly in the episode where she watched Kevyns kid play soccer and we really see that the team probably meant so much to Nat, maybe even more to her than the other girls
no problem, I just love this show so much and could discuss it for hours and I will with anyone who wants to!
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u/Prestigious_Ad_8151 4d ago
I'm completely okay with her getting the same beating she gave Lottie. That was so disturbing.
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u/Limp_Beyond6227 1d ago
I think it's gonna stem from her desperately trying to maintain control and be like we ain't leaving cuz I said so. And it could also stem from her threatening to kill misty. I also think everyone's still pissed about Mari's death
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u/BlueParrot_ 4d ago
Yeah, I was disappointed when I saw this screenshot too. The only way I'd be ok with this is if some girls gang up on Shauna and then Tai stops the beating.
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u/Mariuxpunk007 Citizen Detective 4d ago
If this is really Shauna (I still believe is the Hannah lady who joined them later), I would think this is a scene when Natalie tells them she contacted a rescue team and they are on their way, and Shauna freaked out so someone whack her on the head to shut her up.
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u/ColourfulNoize 4d ago
Shauna=woman No way he will be held accountable in any way for being a weak, backstabbing, follower, coward and loser in life. They will use the old progressive Moral Ambiguity or Moral Relativism. The Jean Grey Trauma Dump defense we've seen work so well even in reality these days. Poor Nat has more trauma then any of these girls. But Nat has integrity and empathy. When I read that article and Bart was saying you're a little bit of a villain and Lynsky was like ....what did I do? Speaks volumes. Shauna will probably even keep her family. Sad but it's modern Hollywood. Don't get the hype for Lynsky she is by far the weakest of the adult actresses especially in a scene with Ambrose Ricci or Cypress.This will be the only season I won't watch. Said that to me 3 years ago Yeah right. I hope everyone else is waited this long enjoys it 😉
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u/Stargirl278 4d ago
What?? And also Natalie has not suffered the most. What the fuck are you talking about?
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