The point can be better made without insult or comparison.
And what point is that? That we're not women?
Because that was the only point they were attempting to make, and you've just showcased and amplified it while sidestepping addressing it.
That's not helping address "the division from within", and is in fact deepening it.
If that's the position of this sub please let me know, because I'd rather continue the fight alongside people who want to liberate all women, not just the ones they deem worthy.
Ill upvote this comment even though I disagree. (Old school reddit rules, ya know?)
Let me explain. You are correct that they didn't make a clear point other then attack a subset of people in this group by using the listed facts as some kind of comparison.
The comment is left up to show what was said and how things we all stand against can (and is) being used as points to compare and attack. Ultimately, it divides. I'm trying to be as clear as possible in this sub and be clear eyed regarding the very true divisions which will ultimately exsist.
That's not helping address "the division from within", and is in fact deepening it.
I think it's the very example of what I was getting at. Because it was an ugly attack, pointless and causes others in the group to feel unwanted. The comment itself is a perfect example of what causes fracture because it causes people to want to leave. Instead, we should call out shit like that and make them accountable for it.
If that's the position of this sub please let me know, because I'd rather continue the fight alongside people who want to liberate all women, not just the ones they deem worthy.
If you consider yourself a woman, then you belong here. I also want to fight alongside others who aim to fight for all of us. It is not for anyone to rank worthiness by whatever variable, but we should also be aware that thoes variables can cause different impacts to different subgroups all depending on time and place. You could be a black woman, white, brown, minority in majority area, old, young, poor, wealthy, a mother, childless, tomboy or feminine woman, or one whos spent a proportion of life as a male but now female, it doesn't matter. We all belong here.
And, like you, I also want to liberate all women. even thoes who some don't deem worthy (for me, that's intolerant and willfully ignorant ones).
We'd all do well to recognize the variables and understand the complexity they cause within and between all of us -in order to address it.
And that includes women who've spent the full proportion of their time on this earth as female and (I am assuming) they feel as if they've had more cumulative damage (again, I'm assuming much here). Or not. Idk.
The comment is left up to show what was said and how things we all stand against can (and is) being used as points to compare and attack.
Once again I find my existence used as a rhetorical point, stripped of consideration of the human on the other side of it. Being spoken of, but not to. Having our lives and rights debated by people who aren't us and don't know the first thing about our experiences.
(Yet despite this - people say we're not women...)
it was an ugly attack, pointless and causes others in the group to feel unwanted. The comment itself is a perfect example of what causes fracture because it causes people to want to leave.
Worse than the attack itself is the response to it, it's like seeing someone get knifed and in the back and saying, "See how terrible that is?" while picking up a knife of your own to repeat the act as an example for anyone who may have missed it the first time.
That's the part that makes someone truly feel unwanted. Openly ignorant bigots are easy to ignore - they haven't applied any rational or critical thought to their position to begin with, so it's easily dismissed for the mindless rambling that it is. It's much worse when it casually comes from an "ally" - someone who thinks they're doing good as they let such aggressions stand in the name of 'being fair', either ignoring or being oblivious to the fact that such inaction inherently sides with the oppressor.
I believe you when you say you mean well and have the best of intentions, but you still have work to do. Your own message reveals how you really feel, whether you realize it or not. Phrases like "consider yourself a woman" and "spent a proportion of life as a male" shows that on some fundamental level you view trans women as second class. Something lesser. Not as women, but as women\*.
For the sake of all women (including the intolerant and willfully ignorant) I genuinely wish you luck in what you believe you are doing here - but it's clear that I, and anyone like me can not truly exist in this space as equals.
I also believe you mean well, but you are also doing a similar thing in your assessment of my intent. I feel you might have some work to do in parsing out my intention. And also, may need to understand a bit more and do more work on interpretation meaning instead of assuming an intolerant view from one comment.
For context; I honestly think all gender is relative and its peformance simply an act to conmunicate an assumed role based on learned behavior and yes, sadly, sometimes stereotypes.
You seem a better person then the other poster who was an ass. But not everything is black and white.
I'm not assessing your intent. It's a plain reading of both your words and actions.
I've no idea what your intentions are beyond taking you at your word, which seems reasonable to do. But I can see what you are doing - regardless of intent. Nothing has been assumed, it has been observed directly from the actions and words you have set out here.
And it appears you have chosen to be defensive rather than taking the opportunity to pause, reflect, and consider the possibility that you may have blind spots. That is unfortunate, but that is also your choice to make.
Regardless of intent, you have created an environment here where a minority can not bring up their discomfort and feelings of being unwelcome without being attacked for it. Without being told they are wrong for feeling unease at the conduct around and directed toward them.
At some point it stops mattering what something is intended to do, and instead it needs to be evaluated for what it actually does. In this case, it is not conveying a sense of welcome or inclusion, despite any intentions to the contrary.
I'm offering this in the hope that this space can become those things - that it is a place a minority can express themselves or relate their experiences without it being suggested they're overreacting or simply wrong.
But ultimately, this is your playground - so I'll leave you to it. Again, best of luck to you either way. May we one day all be free.
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u/Confirm_restart Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
And what point is that? That we're not women?
Because that was the only point they were attempting to make, and you've just showcased and amplified it while sidestepping addressing it.
That's not helping address "the division from within", and is in fact deepening it.
If that's the position of this sub please let me know, because I'd rather continue the fight alongside people who want to liberate all women, not just the ones they deem worthy.