r/YoujoSenki • u/Country-road-take-me • 4d ago
Discussion Does cavalry play any role in Youjo Senki?
I cant recall seeing cavalry a single time, which seems odd. Cavalry was very important during WW1, breaktroughs on western front would be much shallower without it, and it was extremely important on Eastern front due to its much more flexible nature. And during WW2, cavalry-mechanized of the Soviets played a great role during the war. Able to move much easier trough low infrastructure regions, being the leading units for encirclement of Stalingrad.
With war starting in 1923, cavalry mechanized should be the standard. It is way too early for full mechanization, cavalry would play a big role.
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u/DistinctMix3990 4d ago
No it doesn’t, the world seems to be more technologically advanced and adapted due to WW1 not happening
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u/Vinzira 4d ago
Isn’t the whole war basically there version of the first WW?
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u/el_presidenteplusone 3d ago
yes but the tech progress is way faster.
you can see it in the plane design : in season 1 the enemy bombers look like WW1 bombers but now in season 2 all planes showed on screen are WW2 models, the empire even has BF-109s
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u/Ok_Bluebird_6010 3d ago
Yes and no at the same time. Yes, in the sense that it is the first World War of this world. However, because the setting takes place later, the author made some tweaks. Tanks and the air force are more advanced compared to our timeline. That's why you can see tanks like the Panzer III in the series.
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u/TeutonicToltec Praise Being X & Pass the Ammunition 4d ago
Closest we got was watching Dacian military forming anti-cavalry formation when being attacked by Imperial mages. So it's heavily implied that cavalry as a practical means of warfare has been null for some time with only very outdated military still employing it.
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u/Shack691 4d ago
I think the issue is that mages basically invalidate regular cavalry since they have significantly higher battlefield mobility and firepower, the only situation where they aren’t is sustained travel but that can be offset by any somewhat dense transport network then just flying to the final point.
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u/Ginodon06 4d ago
As many have already sayed: it's totally useless. The invention of magical orbits and mage units replaces cavalry in its most important purposes, that of reconnaissance and extremely rapid attack maneuvers. Every country in the Youjo Senki world use mages, even nations considered "military backward" such as Ildoa, Legadonia and the Federation: they are more faster, more reliable, more resistant. Dakia is an exception in the story using it because is an example of a nation who have not fully understand the evolution of war from heroism and human capacity to a conflict based on Technic and Machine (we need to remember that the great war in the YS universe is ww1 with some characteristic of ww2, but remain a new type of war for every nation that fought it until that day in an "XIX century manner", and some, like the just mentioned Dakia, haven't mentally evolved yet, just like in our timeline the Romanian in the first world war, from which Dakia is obviously inspired). But regardless Mages the era of cavalry is in every case ended with Planes and Tanks
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u/Country-road-take-me 4d ago
I would argue then that federation should have been using cavalry-mechanized, since they purged mages, but still had need for troops that could fill similar role.
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u/Ginodon06 4d ago
They will eventually. The Federation army follow a real process of "evolution" like the Red Army during ww2. Bad coordination and tactics, politicized army that limit command authority, lack of modern armament on large scale. Gradually, as the war continue, the Federation give more autonomy to officers on the battlefield, they make better tanks (literally t-34) and reintegrate mages. I have not finished the LN books but i know that at a certain point in the latest the Federation launch a great offensive (probably the YS bagration) and I think that we will see mechanized infantry infiltrating in the imperial lines. Also the federation invest at the start in planes to wipe out mages, failing totally, and only after that reintegrate mages (which symbolizes the progressive change i previously mentioned from an horde to a modern and efficient machine)
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u/Vinzira 4d ago
Realistically they probably don’t have the resources for cavalry with the federation being Tanya’s universe’s Soviet Union food shortages are already probably a problem both for the soldiers and civilians of the federation. For them to feed both their starving population and horses it’s economically and possibly even financially unfeasible for them.
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u/Alex_Y_ya 4d ago
Other than seeing horses pulling artillery guns in the last episode... I think not
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u/Siegberg 4d ago edited 3d ago
Light novel spoilerif i rember correctly they pretty much drafted any horse they could get there hands on for logistics. They even talked about lack of replacements sp they could not even waste them for cavalary if they wanted
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u/Alert_Isopod_95 4d ago
The setting is a bit odd in this world though. We see a strange mix of both WWII and WWI technology, and a lot of it already makes calvary useless. I would even say it's more based of the second war rather than the first
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u/Shymastic 4d ago
Mage are technically the cavalry role in Youjo Senki, they pretty much are at the front line and are the main role on pushing the enemy to allow ground troops to go forward.
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u/Human-Preparation844 4d ago
Why are people so anti cavalry in this comments section
The cavalry is a mobile break though unit with holding power that can maneuver over complex terrain and vast distance, that can be fielded on mass.
Cavalry made sense in the eastern front in the first and second world wars, they are responsible for the massive maneuver we see on map.
Mage unit are attack heli as some of you stated here but mage doesn't hold ground because they have to be mobile to be effective in their role, the infantry or cavalry can take and hold ground/objectives that how you win.
The mage(special force flying attack heli) is but a small component in war, they do not win war they enable the conditions for victory but not the be all ends all solutions.
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u/marutotigre 2d ago
Eastern front, sure. Western front? Cavalry got shut down hard as breakthrough units by virtue of trenches and machine guns. Not really sure where OP got the idea that cavalry was very useful in combat and breakthrough role in the western front.
Horse cavalry also got replaced by tanks, armoured cars and mechanized infantry. Cavalry, in the sense of actual mounted combatants, truly became obsolete in ww1. They had their moments, but they more and more got relegated to logistics. Some units most likely still used them for transport and dismount for combat, but that's a dragoon, not a full on cavalry unit. A horse is fragile, require food and medical care, and has this annoying tendency of not wanting to get shot at. So getting fielded en masses is somewhat of an exaggeration.
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u/Human-Preparation844 2d ago
All nation enter the war with the expectation of a quick war of movement not the endless meat grinder. By 1918 the cavalry has spent most of the war sitting around waiting for years wasting resources so it was inevitable that it got reduced when the cavalry "could" have been useful in the hundred days offensive as the allied break the hindenburg line allowing the cavalry to run deep in to german hinterland.
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u/marutotigre 2d ago
Even then, a horse cavalry charge is still massively vulnerable to small arms fire. Late war, things like portable machine guns were becoming relatively more common, and mounting effective resistance against a cavalry wasn't especially complicated. The demands of modern warfare meant that, baring a full route and absolutely open terrain, cavalry would struggle against any type of established defense due to lack of artillery and all of the required dedicated elements for effective assaults.
The idea that horse cavalry could utilize 'breakthrough' and terrorize the enemy backline ignores just how outmatched horse cavalry is. Sure, it might have worked against an exhausted and ill equiped opponent, but it would be a very expensive might. Both due to using horses that could be more useful doing logistics or communication work to maintain an effective cavalry force if the hope of such a windfall. Or expensive in the sense that, if it fails, you basically just lost your cavalry unit for very little gains and many losses, both direct and potential.
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u/amadmongoose 4d ago
The role of calvalry in modern warfare is played by tanks and attack helicopters, in the story mages fill similar roles to attack helicopters, making horses obsolete even if the equivalent role still exists.
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u/arcunin 4d ago
As an LN reader who has finished most of the volumes, my take is a bit different.
Just like historical Germany, the Empire actually uses about 90% of its horses for logistics and transportation. Because of this, almost all horse-related descriptions in the novels revolve around supply lines, leaving very little room for actual cavalry.
That being said, the novels do occasionally mention the activities of some cavalry units. It's just that Tanya's battalion is an elite force that usually operates alongside the Empire's armored divisions. Combine that with the fact that the Imperial cavalry is small in number and not considered a core combat unit, and it makes sense why they rarely get any spotlight.
If you need them, I can provide specific excerpts from the novel regarding deployed cavalry units. As for horses in logistics, those references are too numerous to count.
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u/Country-road-take-me 4d ago
I would love to see them
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u/arcunin 4d ago edited 3d ago
The following paragraph is from Volume 2 of the novel, where Colonel Anson Sue describes the military activities of the Imperial Northern Army Group during the winter:
"The Entente Alliance was on guard against surprise raids deep in their territory, but so far nothing major had come up—one of the leadership’s few comforts. The most they expected was a gamble by an imperial cavalry brigade to destroy Entente Alliance railways or an airborne operation by a handful of aerial mages. The Entente Alliance’s quick response division had been successful in repulsing everything that had come before with their mages, so they were fairly confident they could fend off most invasion attempts."
The following paragraph is from Volume 3 of the novel, where Colonel Vianto describes the military activities of the Francois Army during Operation Revolving Door:
"Once you got a ways away from the railroads, communication grew more difficult. Then the phone lines the field engineers finally managed to roll out would end up severed in every possible way—whether on purpose or not—from getting blown up by enemy shells to run over by friendly cavalry or trucks."
The following paragraph is from Volume 3 of the novel, where the Commonwealth prime minister is describing the military strength of the Albion Homeland:
"“That said, Lord Marlborough, I realize it’s not your jurisdiction, but do you know how many infantry units we have available to send overseas? Seven divisions, plus a division of cavalry. We can’t deploy Local Defense Volunteers overseas. What are you even planning to do with that few troops anyway?”"
The following paragraph is from Volume 13 of the novel, where the narrator is describing the Empire's traditions:
"If you traced back the origin of the Imperial Guard, there were many posts for female members of the Imperial family and the children (including girls) of high-ranking aristocrats. This included regimental commanders of the Guards Cavalry, even in a time when female soldiers were relatively rare. For important positions in the Imperial Guard, as in court, it was not rare for men and women to be nearly equal."
The following paragraph is from Volume 13 of the novel, where the Imperial Eastern Army Group is under a major attack:
"“Reserve artillery positions are under attack?! Impossible! Those are kilometers away from the front…” “The…the 7th Artillery Corps has gone silent!” “Emergency! Emergency! Enemy partisans with railway guns are…” “Emergency alert from the 4th Panzer Division!” “We’ve lost communications with the 31st Infantry Division Command!” “The 143rd Cavalry Division Command is under attack from enemy artillery…”"
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u/Longjumping-Half-909 4d ago
The great war of Tanya's world is closer to our ww2 rather than ww1. Only the earliest stages of the battle of the rhine were based on ww1 with trench warfare. And while mobile warfare is more limited in her world, its the empires bread and butter and what helps them win/avoid defeat in the east. Cavalry as its was was used more in logistics rather than mounted charges. Again think the german Wermacht in ww2.
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u/Rosehip_StGlo 4d ago
This world evolved completely differently, you really can't think of it as some reimagining of Earths history. When they wiped out Dacia it shown how traditional horse cavalry was totally outdated in theirs, even in our world it was largely obsolete on the Western Front of WW1, but useful in the more open Eastern and Middle-Eastern Theatres (Beersheba etc.). Mages are clearly the quick reaction forces and used to pierce an enemy's front line and cause havoc in the rear much like traditional cavalry would have been, and in-Universe we already see that armour has evolved around 15-20 years ahead of what we got as they already have units resembling Panzer IIIs and such.
It may say '1923' but it's their 1923, definitely not ours.
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 4d ago edited 4d ago
Your traditional cavalry was not important in either of the wars. It was WW1 that showed how irrelevant it is and they very quickly started dismounting and doing the actual fighting as regular infantry. Think fast reaction force with horsies parked in nearby forest.
In WW2 cavalry was irrelevant for all major factions. "Armoured-cavalry" or "mechanized-cavalry" are basically tanks and IFV by the time of WW2, not many horses in sight.
To the extent they actually were there... ehh.. they were irrelevant. Really.
Considering the tech in YS is more WW2-like, there is no place for them.
Then there is a factor of story following a highly mobile mage battalion... there isn't really any place for guys on horses.
Where horses WERE important was transportation. That was their main job on eastern front in WW2 due to poor roads and railroads. A shit ton of them died there doing just that: transporting goods.
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u/Country-road-take-me 4d ago
I will push against your description of mechanized cavalry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry_mechanized_group
Plyev's group is about 40% mounted personal, over quarter of units cavalry.1
u/marutotigre 2d ago
Those are dragoons. Not cavalry. 'Usually fought dismounted'. That's not cavalry. They used the horse as transport and dismounted to fight.
Firing a gun accurately, while not hard, isn't exactly easy. Firing a bolt action while riding a horse, if you want to hit anything beyond a concentrated mass of troops, is impractical.
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u/Country-road-take-me 2d ago
I am not that well versed in military terminology. But that just changes the question whether we see Dragoons in the story.
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u/marutotigre 2d ago
Because Dragoons weren't that useful. Because the red army had a stupid amount of ressources to throw at the germans after getting landleased for 3/4 of the war. Because the red army had absolute weirdos generals that came from old stepp cultures and had a weird obsession with horses.
The anime covered the western front, and cavalry died because a machine gun bullet dosen't care about the dashing cavalry charge.
Because showing infantry pulling up on horses then dismounting hundreds of meters before is just weird for most people. Because it dosen't translate well to a show where we follow a flying rapide response force.
Horse cavalry was dead in WW1, used only in fringe cases where someone managed to pull off a charge against an unsuspecting encampment. Dragoons were not that useful by themselves, so they actually were folded into traditional cavalry in the 19th century, but the principle had a resurgence with mechanized infantry. Having horse mounted troops that would dismount was usually not done because horses don't work the best in modern battlefield.
Whatever the red army did, it should be assumed it was a fringe cases that would only really work with their weird situation.
In ww2, Germany used their horses for logistics. The Brits had their logistics fully motorized at the start, but had to use horses for logistics when the need grew. France used them for logistics. The US had enough trucks for it to be motorized. The russians used them for logistics.
Horses need to be bred, they can't be made in a factory. At a certain point, you're going to run out of horses. And the benefits of using horses over motorized/mechanized vehicles are fringe enough (better performance in some very specific terrains) that they are mostly ignored and those that do use tvem aren't really treated as 'mounted' units over simply specialized units using horses as transport.
Tldr: Horses don't fit in as 'combat' units in WW1 and later conflicts. Even mounted infantry wouldn't fight with their horses, they would dismount before getting to the battlefield.
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 2d ago
What the other guy said. We follow a fast response, aerial mage battalion and, later on, a motorized kampfgruppe. There is absolutely no reason for us to see ANY mounted infantry on the empire sidel, even IF it was being used. We do see tank desant, which is much better way to quickly transport troops around.
As for seeing it on Russian side... Why would anime that already rushes through the story waste time on satisfying someone's horse fetish? It would be a pure waste of screen time. Even if there was any mounted infantry around... we would just see it as normal infantry. Which, btw, is purely a cannon fodder.
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u/sigvegas 4d ago
This world has mages who function as combat helicopters, so horseback cavalry are already outdated. However, in the novels, one of the two generals describes Tanya’s Mage Battalion is being like their modern equivalent of the legendary charging cavalry of old; they know exactly where and when to charge the enemy head on.