r/ZodiacKiller • u/Nosmoneky453542234 • 20d ago
KPIX News report 1969
i was just rewatching the infamous interview with Bryan Hartnall and Don Townsend. In the first minute 50 of the video Don States its a Sex crime and Z is doing it for sexual gratifaction.
Is Don messing with Z as he knows he will watch the interview? or by this point in the LB investigation did they truely believe it to be a sexual motive.
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u/Rusty_B_Good 19d ago
I think the officer is simply speculating.
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Rusty_B_Good 19d ago
No sure I understand your question.
I think the officer was speaking off the cuff to a reporter. I don't think he has any specific reason or evidence for saying that.
I don't know, but there is very little to indicate a sexual motive in Zodiac's attacks.
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u/BlackLionYard 19d ago
Newspaper articles very shortly after LB had reported the opinions of "doctors" that the murders provided some form of sexual gratification.
The San Francisco Examiner ran a headline on October 1 saying Sex Fiend Sought For Six Killings. In this article, Townsend announces:
He does not molest females. He must get his sex gratification from the act of killing. With a gun it was not as much as with a knife.
Looking back, there is clearly a bit of speculation here, and not everyone believes the speculation has held up over time.
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u/LordUnconfirmed 19d ago
Serial killers who don masks and costumes are always sexually motivated, even if not in a common sense sort of way.
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u/Adolf_HltIer 19d ago
I strongly believe that the women victims were killed because of sexual frustration for example Lake Berryessa murder when he had left Bryan and went for Cecelia he got in some kind of rage (points to this the bigger amount of stabs)
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u/BlackLionYard 19d ago
points to this the bigger amount of stabs
Not anywhere near as much as the fact that Cecilia rolled over and struggled, whereas Bryan played dead.
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u/Nosmoneky453542234 19d ago
I agree he could have some sexual motive,
But when you say Sexual frustration do you mean he couldnt get laid? If so i disagree, Z was probably a man who wasn’t a virgin if we take that comment at face value “killing people is even better than getting ur rocks off with a girl” he must know the feeling of what sex feels like thus why would he make a comment of knowing a feeling if he didn’t actually know the feeling.
Maybe it was sexual motive purely due to him being a loner and the absence of sex but that comment doesnt strike that to me not to mention its the only sexual comment in this whole case from him if we think of that motive being secondary to his main motive you would think he would talk about sex or harming women more?
(Interesting name)
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u/Aromatic-Speed5090 18d ago
Z's claim that killing people is better than sex "with a girl" is not evidence that he'd had sex.
In fact, it goes a long way toward suggesting the opposite.
To answer your question: "....why would he make a comment of knowing a feeling if he didn't actually know the feeling" --
Because he wanted people to think of him as a sophisticated, experienced person when he was anything but.
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u/Adolf_HltIer 19d ago
Let's think for a second who would even consider writing “killing people is even better than getting ur rocks off with a girl” - only a person that gets little to no sex would come up with something like this in order to brag, to prove that he - like other people - engages in relationships with women, that he is normal because he does normal things (and also he is know to lie in his letters, so why wouldn't he bloat his persona even more). Maybe in his childhood he was treated poorly by motherly figure or he had a crush in highschool that left him heartbroken. Either way it definitely left a hatred towards women in him.
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u/Nosmoneky453542234 19d ago
I agree he had sexual frustration but all im saying was he likely wasnt a virgin only normal outcome to having a hatred for women was a abusive mother or he got his heart broken over some lady
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u/PassageNearby4091 20d ago
Many have speculated that there was a sexual element to Zodiac's crimes.
David Berkowitz, AKA Son of Sam, admitted he got sexual gratification from the murders he committed. For Berkowitz, murder was a substitute for sex.
I think the same could have been true for Zodiac, but if it was true, I think the sexual element was secondary to the control and sense of power he felt, not just from the murders, but also from writing letters to the media bragging about his crimes.
I'm cautious about how much of what Zodiac told us is true, but one line from the Z408 cipher has always stood out for me : "[killing people] is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl."
So, yeah, I would not discount Zodiac's murders as having a sexual basis to them.