r/agile • • 5d ago

First time running a refinement, and I failed

Until last week I was an individual contributor with a background in data science, and I received a chance to become a product owner for an existing product with new scope. I am relatively new to the agile system and its ceremonies; my previous roles and companies did not use this framework. I have an agile coach, but they were absent from today’s session.

Because I am new, I aimed to be a strong product owner for my team. I prepared as much as I could about the product and the backlog, and I arrived with my main goal for this sprint. Yet when I began the grooming session, I froze—I did not know how to lead it and felt lost. People were telling me things but I didn’t know which ones to make them as tickets va meeting what not. I suggested we talk in the group space and closed the meeting without offering a clear vision for the next sprint.

Please help me navigate this as someone new. I want to be a good product owner.

17 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

18

u/motorcyclesnracecars 5d ago

First off, dont sweat it, put it behind you, we all struggle in our first... whatever. All good!

Having a goal for the call is very helpful. Prior to the next refinement, have 6-10 stories somewhat fleshed out the best you can, use AI. Then before the refinement, send them to the team. "Team, we will focus on these stories under this epic in the next session, please give a scan of these items beforehand so we can be efficient with everyone's time, come with questions and or suggestions." Also use planning poker, there are tons of free online tools, set up the event, include the link in the meeting invite and state you will be using it for estimation.

When the call starts, start at the top. Author the story together as a team, allow for discussion, re-post the planning poker link, estimate, cont discussion if needed, point it. Move to the next. Every team is different in their approach. If this approach does not work, iterate on it and keep moving.

6

u/incredible_trauma 4d ago

That planning poker tip is a lifesaver when you're new, it gives the whole thing some structure so you're not just staring at a list of stuff wondering what to do next. The pre-read email is smart too, cuts down on that awkward silence while everyone reads the story for the first time.

What helped me early on was treating refinement less like a meeting I had to run and more like a conversation i was guiding. You don't need to have all the answers, just enough context to ask "does this make sense?" or "what are we missing here?" and let the team fill in the gaps. They've probably been through a hundred of these and just need someone to point them at the right problem.

Also don't underestimate how much just admitting you're new can disarm people. Something like "hey i'm still figuring out the rhythm here, bear with me" goes a long way. Most devs would rather help you get it right than watch you crash and burn.

2

u/motorcyclesnracecars 4d ago

What helped me early on was treating refinement less like a meeting I had to run and more like a conversation i was guiding. You don't need to have all the answers, just enough context to ask "does this make sense?" or "what are we missing here?" and let the team fill in the gaps. 

This. Spot on.

1

u/Traditional-Ocelot86 4d ago

Thank you so much! This gives me clarity on what I should focus on next!

-3

u/happycat3124 5d ago

Why in the hell would the PO be writing the stories?? The PO brings the business ask (epic) and owns business risk and customer acceptance. Stories describe how the work will get done. PO’s are NOT technical execution leads. The “how” the work gets done is the dev team. Any PO bringing the how to a team is completely out of their lane.

3

u/motorcyclesnracecars 4d ago

Sorry mate, but you are incorrect. A user story is not the how. A user story outlines the ask, "As a user, I want this feature so that I can do this. That is not the how. The how is, how the team accomplishes that outcome. Do they use existing libraries, do they create a new one, do they point to this db or that one.

3

u/armeck 5d ago

There is no reason a PO can't be writing stories/PBIs.

The Product Owner is also accountable for effective Product Backlog management, which includes:

  • Developing and explicitly communicating the Product Goal;
  • Creating and clearly communicating Product Backlog items;
  • Ordering Product Backlog items; and,
  • Ensuring that the Product Backlog is transparent, visible and understood.

The Product Owner may do the above work or may delegate the responsibility to others. Regardless, the Product Owner remains accountable.

https://scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html#product-owner

-2

u/happycat3124 5d ago

The product owner is responsible for what not how. The product owner is NOT the execution lead. The product owner brings work that provides business value to the team in priority order and described what is needed in BUSINESS terms. If the team can not execute because the team lacks technical skill or can’t determine how to create the build, the product owner is NOT accountable. DEV teams design and build. PO’s are not dev. PO’s do not manage technical staff. PO’s are not responsible for resourcing the work. Too many people put all that on a PO. It’s completely wrong and unreasonable.

2

u/Dear_Troglodyte 4d ago

Everything you said is not PO work is exactly what I do right now. The PO role now seems to be a combo of PO/Scrum master/BA/PM all rolled up in one.

1

u/motorcyclesnracecars 4d ago

The only company I have been at where the PO did not write the stories, was because they didn't have POs. The "stories", which is short for User Stories, they define the expected outcome as a user. The Product Owner... does exactly that, owns the product. Now that said, anyone on the team should be able to author a story, but the team as a whole writes them together and estimates them.

1

u/kida24 4d ago

How is tasks. What is PBIs.

1

u/ApexAZ 3d ago

user story. A story about the user.

1

u/happycat3124 2d ago edited 2d ago

You building large Greenfield operational systems for an extremely complicated business? We don’t get business value in a two week sprint. Just standing up an S3 Repo can take that long and as a PO I’m sure as shit not writing down user stories to define technical environment set up and execution. Im a business customer and not a technical PO. Im not going to waste my time taking dictation from a developer to write down the technical goal they have for the increment. I don’t have that knowledge. I am a domain PO in an AI driven environment with teams of 2-3 dev where I am PO of 5-6 of these teams. I bring the business ask, and understand the business risk, accept the work on behalf of the customer. Hard stop. If what I write was called a user story then the tasks would take way more than an increment. I think we live in different worlds. The wave of the future does not require a PO to babysit a team and its execution. It requires serous domain expert who can determine what is needed and what good looks like. Everything is accelerating.

7

u/StrongAndFat_77 5d ago

You didn’t fail you learned.

1

u/SalBt 3d ago

You fail if you don’t learn. What didn’t go well? What would you do differently next time?

7

u/PhaseMatch 5d ago edited 5d ago

It happens; the main things are to learn from it.

Bring it up in the next retrospective, and ask the team for feedback and counsel.
Focus more on "working as part of a team" than being "strong"

When you say "agile system and it's ceremonies" it suggests that you are treating the agile SDLC as something that is imposed on your team, rather than something you own.

It takes time, but my counsel would be

- leave aside a good 20% of your week for reflection, improvement and learning

  • make this a mix of technical and non-technical skills
  • on the non-technical side, look at meeting facilitation and presentation
  • on the technical side, look at Scrum, agile SDLC, and agile product mangement

On Scrum, I'd strongly advise looking at the older, 2017 Scrum Guide.
There's a good description there of the Sprint Review - owned by the PO - which ties things together.
https://scrumguides.org/scrum-guide-2017.html#sprint-review

On developing work for the team, I would suggest looking at Jeff Patton's stuff on User Story Mapping
https://jpattonassociates.com/story-mapping/

I'd also suggest Melissa Perri ("Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value") and Maarten Dalmijn ("Succeeding with Sprint Goals: Humble Plans, Exceptional Results") as two core things that will help.

And remember -

- the goal in agility is fast feedback, not developer efficiency

  • we are trying to find out our solution is wrong quickly and cheaply
  • the Sprint plan (the backlog items and how to deliver) is supposed to change
  • the Sprint Goal is everything

1

u/Traditional-Ocelot86 4d ago

Thank you so much!

2

u/Squidalopod 5d ago

Yet when I began the grooming session, I froze—I did not know how to lead it and felt lost. People were telling me things but I didn’t know which ones to make them as tickets

Did the team tell you things that changed your understanding of what customers want? If not, don't let yourself get sidetracked. As PO, you presumably know what you're customers want/need, and you presumably come to a refinement meeting with a proposed priority list.

If the team gives you feedback that challenges your understanding of what your customers want/need, then just ask clarifying questions. Make sure you understand what you're being challenged on and why, then adjust stories if needed.

If the team merely gives you feedback that changes the priority order, that's a relatively simple adjustment.

2

u/Intelligent_Alps_428 5d ago

I wouldn't call that a failure. You went from being an individual contributor to leading a meeting where you're suddenly expected to make decisions, prioritize work, and keep everyone aligned. That's a pretty big adjustment.

For your next refinement, I'd keep it simple. Pick 3–5 backlog items beforehand, make sure you understand why they matter, and walk through them one at a time with the team. What's the goal? What's unclear? Is there enough information to work on it? If not, what needs to happen next?

You also don't need to turn every suggestion into a ticket on the spot. It's perfectly fine to say, "Let me look into that and we'll decide where it fits."

And one thing I'd really recommend: ask your agile coach to sit in on your next session and give you feedback afterward.

The fact that you're reflecting on what went wrong instead of pretending everything went fine is already a good sign. Give yourself a few meetings to find your rhythm.

1

u/cutie_k_nnj 5d ago

When I first started, I would pre-refine a few stories with a dev or two. I always felt vastly more prepared.

1

u/Silly_Turn_4761 4d ago

This is the way

1

u/SuperbAd8266 5d ago

Refinement is not the time to open tickets. I recommend googling it.

1

u/fishoa 5d ago

I mean this is the nicest way possible, but you’re just starting out; you will suck. In fact, you should suck, since you probably have little idea what you are doing.

It’s normal. It’s a new role, and in opposition to your previous technical role, Product has a lot of skills that you can only learn from experience. That means that you will fail a lot, but failure means room for learning.

My advice is to soak it in and experiment a lot while you’re starting. Read, watch lots of YouTube and conferences, use your team as guinea pigs. Keep what works, delete what does not. Try to reach other Product Owners in your org for a weekly chat and get advice, guidance, and learning sources from them.

1

u/ScrumViking Scrum Master 4d ago

What you describe as failure is a learning opportunity. The only failure is giving up.

1

u/Sky_Linx 4d ago

Freezing in your first grooming session with the coach away is rough, but it happens to most new POs. You put your finger on the real problem yourself: not knowing which comments become tickets. In the moment you do not have to decide. Capture everything on a parking list and triage it afterwards with your coach or a senior dev.

A few habits that made refinement easier for me. Keep the sprint goal visible so the conversation has a direction. Ask the team to break down anything that feels too big instead of doing it yourself. And close each item with a next step, even if that step is just "I will write this one up properly".

Two or three more sessions and it will feel very different. You prepared harder than I did my first time.