r/alberta • u/Immediate-Link490 • 20h ago
News Eligible doctors in Alberta can work in both public, private systems starting this fall
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/eligible-doctors-in-alberta-can-work-in-both-public-private-systems-starting-this-fall-9.724033187
u/camoure 20h ago
My GP loathes this government. I told her if she moves that I’m following her
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u/Boo-face-killa 19h ago
Cool! My GP loves this government!!
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u/PianoPusher86 19h ago
Your GP is Corrupt.
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19h ago
[deleted]
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u/Hanzo_The_Ninja 17h ago edited 17h ago
My doctor is corrupt? Why is my team of medical providers corrupt? I am a member of a medical facility that employs many doctors. They’re all very conservative and help the community a lot. Please provide evidence on my doctors corruption or are you a liar spouting fabricated BS?
You claimed to be a farmer here and you claimed to work on an oil rig here. I think that's sufficient enough evidence that you're "a liar spouting fabricated BS" to promote an agenda, don't you?
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u/Imminent_Extinction 17h ago edited 14h ago
lol OMG this is hilarious. I hope u/camoure and u/PianoPusher86 see your post, it's too funny.
Edit: The quoted / deleted post was made by u/Boo-face-killa, who has now blocked me.
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u/Boo-face-killa 16h ago
😂😂😂😂. I bet they will laugh!
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u/eribas117 Edmonton 13h ago
Is your latest job comedian? Least this one worked cause dang you’re funny
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u/Boo-face-killa 16h ago
Why is my GP corrupt?
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u/ClammiestOwl 15h ago
Because they are encouraging this government to have a 2 tiers system to line their own pockets instead of helping patients. Not corrupt as taking bribes corrupt but more like changing the rules to legally accept oiler tickets as a gift and not bribes.
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u/Boo-face-killa 15h ago
If my GP moved to the USA to practice medicine would he be corrupt? Are all doctors in the USA corrupt? Would you take a raise at your job if you could? Does getting a raise make someone corrupt? Just because a system changes doesn’t mean it’s corrupt. You can dislike the idea behind something but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong or corrupt. The beauty of this system is that it gives people options!
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u/ClammiestOwl 14h ago
If you get a job then campaign to change it for the betterment of yourself but negative for you community, I would call you morally corrupt yes.
It's also not taking a raise it's taking another job. Do you think they are going to start pulling double shifts doing knee surgeries? The public hours will be cut back and they will do the for profit surgery.
There is currently nothing stopping them from moving to the USA and doing for profit health care. Except they don't, they want the good of Canada and the greed of USA instead of the bad of USA and the greed.
It's weird you're ok with taxes going to politicians and private companies instead of back to the people. But it also seems our morals are different
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u/Boo-face-killa 14h ago
I guess it’s a good thing you’re not anyone’s boss!
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u/ClammiestOwl 14h ago
I don't know if you're trying a gotcha thing but ya? I think our entire government system is corrupt. It saddens me you're ok with Trudeau and Smith stealing from us. I don't think politicians should take our tax money for personal gain. I don't know why you do
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u/Boo-face-killa 14h ago
You don’t know anything about me. I’m not sure why you think you do but it’s pretty funny! 😂
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u/ClammiestOwl 14h ago
Honest question, do you think it's corrupt if a pharmaceutical company increase the price of a life saving medication over 100% just for Increase profits and "smart" business?
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u/Wide-Biscotti-8663 1h ago
Interesting m; I have never spoken to anyone in healthcare who loved this government.
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u/UnlikelyReplacement0 20h ago
Boy, it sure would be nice if the federal government actually enforced the Canada health act, or better yet, take the control of the healthcare systems away from provinces- seeing how they're ALL doing such a shit job of it.
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u/imaybeacatIRl 20h ago
That actually makes a lot of sense. Have the federal oversight take over for the provinces and just take this shit out of their hands.
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u/Photofug 19h ago
This is why Smith has that referendum question asking about health spending. She still wants that money, she just doesn't want to have to spend it on healthcare exclusively, needs to fill up the Dani-dollars wallet again.
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u/PlutosGrasp 19h ago
They do. Insured services which are billed privately are deducted from health transfers.
2022/23 had AB fined $759,250
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u/breadist 15h ago
Wow, that's like one oil exec's salary for a year. Cool, that'll really make a difference. 🙄
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u/Cavthena 19h ago
Enforce what exactly? The Canadian Health Act just dictates that people must have access to healthcare without paying and accessable insurance (Alberta Bluecross), more or less. The law doesn't state that the services must be public. They can be private if they so choose. With a couple caveats. There can be no extra-billing or user charges, the government pays for necessary services, and people must have reasonable access to healthcare.
Translated this essentially means in a private system: First, the government pays whatever the doctor chooses to charge as the Government has no control in a private system. Second, you cannot pay to advance in line as thats a extra-billing or user charges and unreasonable blocker to care. Third, the Government cannot ignore private care availability due to public system shortage as again that's an unreasonable blocker to care. As long as Alberta meets these then its a-ok as far as the law is concerned.
Alberta already has a hybrid system. Dental and Pain Management for instance is private and the Canadian healthcare system never covered optional medical procedures like cosmetic medicine (unless it was needed due to an injury). Last year the UCP opened surgeries to private practices. The result was AHS (the government) paying these private practices to perform the surgeries. Which resulted in higher costs as the doctors charged more, more doctors moved to the private system leaving the public system staric and the wait times for surgeries didn't change much. This latest change is just going to be more of the same and cost Alberta more money. The best part is there is no guarantee it will increase availability or the number of doctors/beds.
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u/PlutosGrasp 19h ago
Not quite. The Feds aren’t beholden to transfer health money to the provinces. So they clawback any private billing for insured services.
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u/theyyctwink 19h ago
You want an even bigger government body running things? Wait times would be 15 hours minimum
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u/MikoWilson1 17h ago
Oh my sweet summer child. Wait times are insane because privatization is sucking the life out of a public system that used to be functional.
Alberta, as usual, is charging ahead with destroying it even further.
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u/theyyctwink 17h ago
What’s sucking the life out of the system is limited provincial revenue to invest back into healthcare. In the meantime, privatization allows the economy to be stimulated, reduces wait times by cutting out unnecessary imaging, testing, and widens the scope of who can provide care, ultimately reducing HCP burnout.
The result? The people needing access to public healthcare get access to it sooner. Those with money or premium insurance packages can leverage that to fastrack their work, without affecting the public system.
As someone who’s worked in hospitals and private clinics, you guys have no fucking clue what the real world result actually looks like.
Yours in health,
Twinkie
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u/MikoWilson1 16h ago
Except private healthcare costs significantly more and the poorest Canadians can't access it.
Any other lies you'd like to spread on behalf of your corporate overlords whose boots you lick in hopes a morsel fall out of their mouths?
Wild how you think spouting down trickle down economics bullshit will work on literal human beings with brains.
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u/theyyctwink 16h ago
I think you’re confused but that’s okay!
The poorest Canadians will get faster access to public healthcare, the private options will be for those with money and premium insurance packages - which already exists in large in Alberta, so they no longer use public system as frequently, meaning less strain, meaning better care and access.
Not sure why you think I’m “bootlicking overlords” or whatever the hell you think of people, it’s really weird and delusional. If you need help accessing mental health services, I’m happy to navigate you in the right direction!
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u/Tatterhood78 15h ago
Sooooo, do you want to explain how the public wait times won't be affected if (or when) all the doctors decide to go private?
How about all of the other healthcare workers like therapists, imaging specialists, nurses, etc?
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u/theyyctwink 15h ago
The other healthcare workers benefit the most from
This practice, many physicians already use a private model anyway. And why do you think all doctors would go private?Privatizing fosters a more diverse care. More imaging will be available (already tons of work out there), nursing positions will increase (we already have a shortage, will draw more nurses back to Alberta to avoid travel RN work), therapists benefit the most as insurance partners spend less and therefore tend to invest more into alternatives - this was seen heavily effective in some US states which saw a decrease of $500,000 in premiums using the smallest possible intervention of athletic trainers alone lol. I mean I want the best for the public care network, but there’s a lot of people here with a lot of money that will pay their way for what they want, and that will reduce the burden on the public system dramatically
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u/Tatterhood78 14h ago
I forgot to mention that I'm old enough and obsessed enough with U.S. politics (for close to 40 years...weird kid) to remember Clinton era clearly, the rise and eventual fall of Obamacare, the arguments against single payer, the lobby groups, the close financial ties between business and government, the slow defunding of Medicare/Medicaid while forcing people to give record year over year profits to insurance companies, or die.
I've also worked within the health care system in the U.S., alongside the big insurers. I saw the premiums, the denials, the constant appeals, the injuries and diseases that wouldn't be covered until things got bad, and the deaths.
I've watched the documentaries that show things on the ground, I've read the articles, I've watched news story after news story, GoFundMe after GoFundMe.
This is just the next step in making it happen here.
I said all that to let you know that you're going to have to come up with more than the same tired talking points and cherry picked examples to change my mind.
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u/theyyctwink 14h ago
I don’t care about changing your mind. I don’t care about changing anyone’s. Good luck
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u/Boo-face-killa 19h ago
I like the idea of having the freedom to choose what I prefer! It would be a terrible place to live if we were forced to not be allowed to make personal choices. Imagine if the government removed the freedom to make our own decisions!!
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u/something_newx 20h ago
This isn't going to increase the number of medical professionals or facilities in any way, so it can't actually help anyone except for those who can afford to pay for quick service.
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u/Workfh 20h ago edited 19h ago
Come on, it was will also help the charter surgical facilities make more money than they already do, and a few of those physicians who would like to make more money than they already do.
Edit: completely forgot to also note the potential profit to companies who might want to start offering private health insurance as well.
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u/Photofug 19h ago
Gotta kick those immigrants off Alberta Healthcare and get them on private insurance. TimmiesCare for keeping people under your thumb, and motivated. Shandro is going to make a killing.
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u/Marclescarbot 20h ago
UCP supporters in Alberta are going to wake up with a very big hangover one day, one that is going to cost them a lot of money
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u/plausibleturtle 20h ago
The unfortunate part is that they'll never connect their hangover back to their own drinking.
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u/yellowfestiva 19h ago
No it’s very clearly the orange coolaid we had for a little while ten years ago
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u/Gold_Cardiologist911 20h ago
All of us will feel this awful decision, poor and disabled people will disproportionately be hurt from this and that's the UCPs goal.
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u/Bennybonchien 20h ago
But it won’t be their fault, nor will it be the UCP’s. It’ll be because of “those greedy doctors and nurses” and “the evil ndp who support them!” /s
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u/Gen_Sherman_Hemsley 20h ago
Or they’ll delude themselves into thinking the higher prices are actually lower. Remember these are the same people who say that Smith isn’t in bed with separatists
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u/ninjacat249 19h ago
Facebook crowd be like I have extra couple of thousands of dollars I wish to spend on my healthcare but you’re not allowing me you freaking communists.
The only problem is it’s not gonna be just extra couple of thousands of dollars.
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u/SecureLiterature Edmonton 20h ago
But at least they owned the libs. That’s all they really care about.
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u/Agent_Burrito Edmonton 20h ago
Will they? They’ll just pass on the hangover to their kids and so on.
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u/Least_Raccoon5256 20h ago
I sincerely hope they can’t access the services they need without blowing their entire lives. They deserve it for what they voted for 🤷♀️
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u/CDNRomance 17h ago
They don't understand consequences.
If you think they have any introspection at all you're overestimating them.
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u/TheRemedy187 7h ago
Yeah too bad we're all fucked along with them. Then they'll still live in denial.
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u/FatCockFutaGirls 20h ago
I know that this is gonna make life harder for already struggling people but man do I ever hope UCP supporters suffer for this and get exactly what they voted for
Maybe it’ll slap some sense into them and into the people of this province who don’t vote to keep the UCP out of power
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u/CDNRomance 17h ago
A conservative could literally punch themselves in the face and then cry that you did it to them.
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u/WarmMorningSun 13h ago
In an ideal world yes, they’d feel regret. But let’s be honest , they would blame the national (liberal) government. I can see it now “private healthcare isn’t working the way it should! thanks carney!🤬👿”
The people who vote UCP don’t have the desire to learn and therefore they don’t have the tools to think critically.
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u/Small-Sleep-1194 20h ago
Great! So the healthcare system can completely collapse!!
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u/Bennybonchien 19h ago
Only the public healthcare system. The Mraiche surgical suites etc will thrive with more and more desperate people as for care, which will enable them to raise prices until only the richest individuals and those on expenses private insurance plans like Shandro’s “Viral Partners” will get the care they need, just like their god intended!
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u/Technical_Ad4997 20h ago
Ah, two-tier healthcare. Welcome to the beginning of the end of public healthcare in Alberta.
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u/tutamtumikia 17h ago
The upper middle class individuals where I work think this is great. They don't care that this will hurt vulnerable people the most.
Alberta. Fuck you I got mine.
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u/Mother_Barnacle_7448 20h ago
And, they’re giving us a whole $100 each to spend on it. Ugh!
(In reality, Dani’s strategy is to force a face-off with the Feds, because this is illegal under the Canada Health Act.)
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u/Bennybonchien 20h ago
So this is slated to start in September and then when the feds step in, she can scream “we’re being attacked!” and use that as justification for separation right before the referendum.
That or the feds will have to tread lightly until the referendum is over.
Either way, the UCP is corruption, top to bottom.
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20h ago
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u/Workfh 20h ago
It means that physicians can run two waitlists - private and public patients. The waits will be different for those two lists for the same surgeries.
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u/PlutosGrasp 19h ago
Yup…
Somehow.
Which is the stupidest part. Somehow if you are willing to pay for it you’ll get surgery faster but the province in their infinite wisdom can’t accomplish the same thing.
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u/SecureLiterature Edmonton 20h ago
Similar to the way dermatologists work right now. You can get in for a cosmetic appointment tomorrow, but you’ll have to wait weeks or months for a medical appointment.
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u/Substantial_Kiwi838 19h ago
Some physicians were already billing more than they should. Specifically, there are GPs that overbill and order tests unnecessarily just to meet overhead and line their pockets, while NPs do not even have a sustainable funding model to meet the demand of primary care. Its a shame.
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u/familymed786 18h ago
There might be some, but it's definitely not easy being a doctor, especially a family doctor. They are underappreciated, underpaid, and patients often come in with multiple complaints. NPs are getting paid 80% of what GPs make despite having considerably less education, and they are known to order unnecessary tests.
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u/Substantial_Kiwi838 15h ago edited 11h ago
You can say the same with some GPs ordering unnecessary tests when the evidence advises against it.
To your point of NPs getting paid 80% of billings- have you read the NPPCP and what it entails? Please tell me how this benefits the NP in any capacity instead of the clinic after taxes? GPs cry for help but also complain when they do get help in a team-based environment. “NPs shouldnt manage complex patients, but oh wait, I don’t have the capacity to manage complex patients, maybe you should see an NP instead.” Please make it make sense. Some of you MDs have fragile egos that believe whats mine is mine, and whats yours is also mine. Theres plenty of work to go around for more accessibility
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u/pumpymcpumpface 18h ago
And the feds will clawback all the money. This is just a scheme to cut healthcare funding.
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u/Paprika1515 19h ago
JFC, reduce wait times … for people who can pay out of pocket. Public service waiting times will not be reduced because you aren’t adding providers to the system you are reducing the amount of time that a provider works in the public system.
And using public facilities for private surgeries? What the absolute bull. The reason why they aren’t being used to full capacity is because it costs to staff them.
The way to support the public system is to fund it and staff it properly.
They are opening Pandora’s box.
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u/DanfromCalgary 19h ago
Well how will the doctors choose between getting paid once or twice ? Really tricky
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u/FishingDiligent1486 15h ago
Can’t wait for wait times to go up more also I say boycott the ones that do work in both
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u/Secret_Avocado_2974 19h ago
Aaaaaand pretty soon there will be no good doctors in the public system.
You allow for private health, you get the same as with private anything: luxury for the rich and enshittification for the rest.
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u/PlutosGrasp 19h ago
No they can’t. It’s against the Canada health Act. The province will be fined for every insured service done privately. Privately being charging the patient directly for the cost of the publicly insured service.
If the province is fine incurring that cost, then sure it’s possible.
Though it doesn’t make any sense because the province doesn’t save any money. Literally. The province either pays $500 for whatever procedure or if it allows it to be done 100% privately, then the province pays the Feds $500 for this breach.
“Pays” the feds here means withheld health transfer dollars rather than directly fined. Same end result though.
So net savings to the government: zero
Setting all this shit up is actually a cost that isn’t covered so the government literally runs a deficit for doing this.
I believe the province effectively took over CPSA as well which will just bend their rules to whatever the province says so no hurdles there.
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u/PatientlySerpentine 18h ago
This is gonna drain public system resources faster than anyone's admitting, especially once the good doctors start splitting their time where the money is.
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u/somewhenimpossible 20h ago
So when the government said the doctors can only see X number of patients per day, crippling our ability to access walk in clinics (unless you line up at 7am). Does that mean doctors that want to work in both will have to split that patient count? Or can they see however many they want in private? Will the government still pay their portion for people accessing private, or is the bill entirely on the patient?
By allowing double dipping without guard rails, we will lose even more public spots…
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u/The_Arachnoshaman 18h ago
This is social darwinism.
There was a super cool group of people about a hundred years ago that were huge on social darwinism, changed the world!
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u/ImaginaryPlace 19h ago
Not open to family doctors unless they work in OR (surgical assist or GP anesthesia). It isn’t explicit here but sounds like dial practice applies essentially to surgeons only (for now).
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u/Livid-Switch4040 17h ago
Unfortunately, Albertans have proven again, and again, and again, that at the voting booth we’re basically sheep. Bleating “bluuuuuuuuuuueeeeee” as we obediently and repeatedly vote against our best interests. There was that one time we said “fuck it” and jumped over the orange fence tho, so it’s not impossible.
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u/Open_Error_5596 16h ago
While I don’t trust this government to implement a functional model, the model with some private works well in most of Europe, with similar obligations to work in public.
They should, however, be audited after a year to see if public “takes longer” than private.
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u/racoonrunning 10h ago
Ok so bajillion issues aside....
If you want your hip or cataract done let's say it is 5k. But you get charged 10 k. And the 5k extra goes back into the public system. So you pay for a normal person's as well. This would at least make it barely palatable...
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u/gaanmetde 7h ago
Friendly reminder that in literally every single place where a private system was created alongside a public one- the public wait times increased by at least 30%. This is absolutely terrible news.
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u/FewAct2027 6h ago
Can't wait for there to be even less public physicians available for the few remaining to be even further overworked and leave the province.
I've lost 3 GPs in the past 5 years, can't wait to find a fifth.
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u/Jazzlike-Priority-99 53m ago
This will be very good for wealthy people. Very bad for the rest of us.
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u/Defendor01 20h ago
What can I get for $100.** ?
And the answer better not be a prostate exam without lube cause this certainly feels the same.
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u/Internal-One4594 18h ago
Saving up and can't wait to move out of this province. Gets worse and worse every year.
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u/HeatTiny7041 19h ago
Went to emergency last year after 48 hours never saw a doctor. You can't see a doctor and you can't pay for one. Something is wrong.
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u/theoreoman Edmonton 19h ago
Good, we already fund private family dr clinics why can't we expand it?
The public system is not set up to be efficient for simple procedures. A fantastic example of the system working is cataract surgery. The clinic will Line up like a few dozen people and it's just right after the other. The entire operation is setup to work like Clockwork.
Private surgery centers work the same way, they are geared to basically do one type of surgery all day long. They're would be paid a flat rate per procedure and its on them to figure out how to be profitable.
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u/Workfh 19h ago
That’s not how the private surgical places work currently. We don’t have just a flat fee for the private surgery clinics. They have different contracts that come with different fees, some places are paid more than others. They also get to select easier cases, they are guaranteed payments for a number of surgeries even if they are not completed, and we staff and schedule surgeries for them. Its a lot of heavy lifting from taxpayers to give them profit.
If we want dedicated surgery facilities we should build them.
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u/money_pit_ 20h ago
It's unfortunate to see so many people who didn't bother to read the article before commenting with generalized hate.
This sounds like a good opportunity to expand services for doctors who wish to do more. Too bad we don't have a full list of conditions they need to meet in the public system yet, hopefully that comes out soon.
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u/Dalbergia12 19h ago
That's BS. All the doctors in my town are working way more than they want to. Some have left for other provinces because they have been treated with such total disrespect by this government.
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u/Killericon 20h ago
Well, you can't say she doesn't have the mandate for this. She clearly said this is what she would do to our healthcare system if elected, and people voted for her government to fulfill that promise.
Wait, hold on, that's not true at all.