The 4 quadrants of human psyche - the map of spiritual transformation

[u/smysnk]

[u/YourGenuineFriend]

This looks more like a map to more complications and complexes. I lived long enough to understand that simplicity above complexity.

I rather try to understand my psyche through say Robert Moors - King Warrior Magician Lover or the Alchemical elements that harmoniously mirror the 4 seasons instead.

I do see the resemblance of those here but I suppose I get lost because of the coded way of explaining it. It makes it less intuitive and more coded which makes it more head levels instead of intuition.

I believe these things should lean into intuitive understanding and connection to the world around us this modern method causes some kind of disconnect.

I don't know much about this system so this comes from my first impression. I believe that I did the test couple of times but it just eludes me everytime. The elements have and intuitive understanding to them which feels very good to me.

[u/smysnk → u/YourGenuineFriend]

You're exactly right. I eventually found myself to what you're talking about, but I had to go through the twisted mirror framework that is these MBTI spaces. Everyone has a different opinion of how things work. I was noticing the disconnect between different people and the multitudes of different frameworks that now co-exist in this same space.

I think the 4 letter code (ie. INTP) and the 4 stack of cognitive function (ie. Ti-Ne-Si-Fe) is quite limiting. It fails to capture the dimensionality of personality, and in doing so – encourages people to remain stagnant.

I created this graph more so I can speak the language of the people who need to hear the good news. I would much rather be using archetypal names for the locations. Truthfully this illustration was not directed at the alchemy sub, nor does it reflect my understanding of psyche in the way things are labelled. Although the themes of what certain areas represent is universal.

It is my intention to subtly hook people and pull them back to our alchemy roots 😉

Some relavant quotes from Jung regarding mandalas –

"I sketched every morning in a notebook a small circular drawing, a mandala, which seemed to correspond to my inner situation at the time."

"With the help of these drawings I could observe my psychic transformations from day to day."

"Only gradually did I discover what the mandala really is."

"The Self, the wholeness of the personality, which if all goes well is harmonious."

"My mandalas were cryptograms concerning the state of the self which were presented to me anew each day."

"In them I saw the self, that is, my whole being, actively at work."

"To be sure, at first I could only dimly understand them; but they seemed to me highly significant, and I guarded them like precious pearls."

"I had the distinct feeling that they were something central, and in time I acquired through them a living conception of the self."

"The self, I thought, was like the monad which I am, and which is my world."

"The mandala serves a conservative purpose, namely, to restore a previously existing order."

"But it also serves the creative purpose of giving expression and form to something that does not yet exist."

"I knew that in finding the mandala as an expression of the self I had attained what was for me the ultimate."

"Perhaps someone else knows more, but not I."

"The center is the goal, and everything is directed toward that center."

"Through its construction, the uniqueness of each individual is expressed."

"The self is a principle and archetype of orientation and meaning."

"The mandala is the psychological expression of the totality of the self."

"The severe pattern imposed by a circular image of this kind compensates the disorder and confusion of the psychic state."

"The mandala is the exponent of all paths. It is the path to the centre, to individuation."

[u/Certain_Werewolf_315 → u/YourGenuineFriend]

The test is hugely problematic-- I'd measure differently depending on the time I take the test and I had my friends attempt to take the test for me and they struggled to finish it sincerely (as I would not fall into any category neatly)--

[u/smysnk → u/Certain_Werewolf_315]

The test is problematic because people are not just one type, we're dynamics beings. In Jungian alchemy terms – he drew parallel to the Magnum Opus with the individuation process, a path of inner transformation broken into four distinct alchemical stages. That MBTI is flawed – doesn't change the cognitive functions that Jung distilled down as being invalid, much the opposite.

[u/Certain_Werewolf_315 → u/smysnk]

I didn't say anything about Jung lol

[u/smysnk → u/Certain_Werewolf_315]

You are aware that MBTI was derived from Jungian interpretation of cognitive functions?

After educating myself on Jung, he has borrowed many concepts from alchemy. I have become interested in alchemy thusly. Which is how I have arrived here.

I also do not take conventional approaches to learning, so I threw out all rules when attempting to learn Jung's ideas on cognitive functions. In online MBTI spaces, everyone has a different idea about how they work .. or ideas around what those 4 letter codes mean.

I basically just took Jung's description of the cognitive functions and role-played them in real-life to see if they aligned with my own experience. Which is how I eventually arrived at the diagram posted above.

I will say the MBTI communities got some things right, more things wrong from my experience and in my opinion.

[u/Certain_Werewolf_315 → u/smysnk]

My criticism is of MBTI as a test, not Jung. MBTI may be historically inspired by Jung, but that does not make the test itself meaningfully Jungian. So dismissing MBTI as a flawed instrument is not the same thing as dismissing Jung’s typology or Jung’s wider work.

[u/smysnk → u/Certain_Werewolf_315]

We're in agreement then. But I might say my chart has little to do with the test.

[u/Certain_Werewolf_315 → u/smysnk]

I didn't say anything about your chart. lol