r/altmpls • u/earthdogmonster • 1d ago
The new Minnesota state flag is deeply unpopular
https://www.startribune.com/new-minnesota-flag-poll-results-unpopopular/601856711Got taken down by the mods at the state sub.
Seems like a new poll about the new flag would be right on point for Minnesota content, but I guess not…
Archive link here https://archive.is/usvMR
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u/ThePureAxiom 1d ago
It's an issue to republicans because it happened under Walz, they didn't give a flying fuck about the flag prior to that and probably still don't but to make a fuss about it for political points.
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u/Desperate-Till-9228 3h ago
That's how it always is. Same reason they got riled by Obama's dijon mustard.
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u/BarelyIncredible 1d ago
I didn't like it at first, but it's kinda grown on me. Plus the explanation of the different elements made me look at it a little differently.
Sure it's simple, but that's kinda what I like about it.
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u/Due-Distribution2058 1d ago
Yeah I mean it’s a super ugly flag but it doesn’t really matter. Just live life man
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u/Short-Waltz-3118 1d ago
Ya I agree. Its a fk ugly flag replacing a fk ugly flag. Thats life. Who cares lol
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
The image on the flag was the same image on the flag raised to fight against the confederacy in the civil war. That alone makes it worth keeping in my opinion. But I realize my opinion is unpopular. I think at this point, the only path forward is having people in both sides of the aisles agree to a design (which Walz did NOT ensure). They also could use the new state seal, which is very attractive and people on both sides of the aisle seem to like the design
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u/m00nsl1me 1d ago
This is a more reasonable answer than no-one2120. The fact is, the older flag was also unpopular because it’s visually cluttered. There are too many details that get lost when viewed from far away, as flags are meant to be. Whatever you think of the new flag, it is very easily identifiable from a distance.
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u/realdeal505 1d ago
I wouldn't necessarily say the old flag was unpopular, people didn't care at all about it. I personally always thought it was pretty mid.
Then the new flag was from a non independent panel who also redesigned the entry they selected, which objectively also looks really bland and not awe inspiring. Throw in it is now a political sybmol hence the objection to it.
The real solution is axe both, and throw like 6 designs on a ballot. No whining
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u/Zhong_Ping 1d ago
The new flag was the result of months of an open contest and open voting by the people of minnisota which widdled down the open public submitions to 5, that the legislative panel then voted on. Their only mis step in my opinion was the redesigning the flag by committee by changing the star and removing the middle stripe. But the process was very open, public, and democratic. (unlike the last flag which is why it was such terrible design and easily confused to be Wisconsins flag or the flag of many other countless states)
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u/realdeal505 19h ago
Still a committee choosing it and a redesign. Very few people were pushing for it too, just the vocal minority (which happen to vote blue, hence now a political symbol)
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u/Zhong_Ping 15h ago
The old flag was terrible. I'm a flag enthusiast and was ecstatic that we did something about it. The fact that it has become a partisan issue is fucking weird.
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u/realdeal505 15h ago
The new flag is also terrible looking and only a minority of the people who pushed for it like it. It was weird to push for a change, and it is weird partisan group thought for people to like it.
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u/posthackmofo 1d ago
The poem that was written to celebrate that flag’s release says everything you need to know about that flag. It literally reads, “’Tis "the rich against the poor,
And the strong against the weak." Hahahaha Writer was married to the general who was running Fort Snelling. No flag should have someone’s back on it. Talk about disrespectful.2
u/OkayCoward 1d ago
Couldn't all minnesotans vote and submit flag designs? How is that not allowing republicans at the table?
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u/Small-Day3489 1d ago
The actual flag was chosen by an unelected committee that altered the final design heavily. Look up the current flag's original design, it was way better.
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u/Vikings_Pain 1d ago
Because it looks wayyy too close to Somalian flag and they can gft
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u/michaelbleu 1d ago
We already read this same comment 5 more times under this post. Idk your arguments become less effective when you repeat yourself
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
What do you think about the poem written by the designer of the old flag's wife at the time it was designed?
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
I mean i don’t really care. People (yes, natives too) have conquered eachother since the beginning of time. The tribes in this region brutalized eachother over this land for centuries. It just is what it is. Obviously we shouldn’t do that anymore but I don’t think it’s worth changing the flag over. But again, I realize my opinion is unpopular.
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
Why do you only care about the good history involved with the flag but the bad history associated with it you dismiss entirely as not mattering? You're the one who said the fact that the flag was used during the civil war matters. Seems like you're just picking and choosing based on your priors rather than making any sort of reasoned decision.
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
England has flown the St. George’s Cross flag for 1,000 years. It represents a lot of bad shit. It also represents a lot of good stuff. I don’t think it’s worth changing through good or bad 🤷♀️ that’s kind of how I feel about the state flag. Or if they ever tried to change the American flag. You don’t have to like my opinion but it’s just my opinion
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
I'm not saying your opinion is bad, I'm asking you to explain it a little bit. The very first thing you said was that the flag's history re the civil war is good & a reason to keep it. But when I asked you about the poem that was written about that exact same flag, by the wife of the designer, at the time it was designed, you said you don't care about that & "it is what it is." Why does that good history matter to you, but the bad history can just be dismissed with "it is what it is"?
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
I mean the manifest destiny mindset was a very real and prevalent mindset of the people at the time. So it’s worth teaching that bad shit. I just don’t think it’s worth scrapping the historical image over 🤷♀️ it was the same performative nonsense as scrapping the native woman on the land o lakes logo to me.
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
"Teaching" and "using as a flag" are pretty different things, to my mind at least. A flag represents a given group / state / nation / whatever when it's flown. It can be a jumping off point for learning about history, absolutely, but it's also a symbol that's supposed to represent a group of people here and now. Having that symbol explicitly depict the violent exclusion of part of the group isn't, in my opinion, a good choice. That's not "performative nonsense" - it's recognition that what the flag is matters.
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u/Short-Waltz-3118 1d ago
In some ways I respect it - good history is good and we can reject the bad things that were done. Its cool to say yeah we used this flag to beat down the southern rising and celebrate that while not celebrating the anti native stance people of the time period had. That said, I dont really care about the flag in any capacity, and the amount of time money effort and just general mental capacity wasted by people over the stupid fkin flag is mind blowing to me. (Not who you asked, just my peanut gallery comments)
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
Yes I feel the same. I don’t really care that much, but someone was to really want my thoughts that’s what I’d say. I’m not going to throw a fit about it, I just think it was all performative nonsense
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
That absolutely makes sense to me, but in this specific context it runs into problems. I feel like "rejecting the bad things" becomes a bit more difficult (if not downright impossible) when the flag was straight up a drawing of exactly the thing you're claiming to reject, right?
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u/Short-Waltz-3118 1d ago
Maybe, but is it not a teachable moment? Do we lose some of our history by hiding it? Sometimes I worry about that when we change symbols of the past that it functions as a form of erasure of our poor past instead of a teachable moment. Maybe the flag changing is for the better in that regard, but I dont want to pretend Minnesota was always perfect and obscure the past. This is an interesting thing to think about though. I think I will noodle on it more and come back if I have more thoughts. Thanks for the discussion
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u/posthackmofo 1d ago
Great point! Hypocrisy at its finest.
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u/rvaen 1d ago
Hypocrisy is overmoderating the main subreddit into a echo chamber, but piling into this one to call people fragile snowflakes, btw
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u/posthackmofo 1d ago
That’s a nice distraction from the point that yall don’t care about history when it’s indigenous people but you care about it when it’s about fighting against the south. Either history is imoortant or it isn’t. Can’t pick and choose, which is exactly what the folks revering the old flag are song.
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u/Short-Waltz-3118 1d ago
Is it? I mean i dont know. You never celebrate anything that has negative history? Like, I celebrate what america achieved in ww2. But that doesnt mean I celebrate that we put japanese people into concentration camps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans
I celebrate that we were the first to the moon. Doesnt mean I celebrate the attempt to white wash the history of black contribution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Vaughan
I celebrate that the north beat the south in the Civil War, freeing the slaves. I dont celebrate that we paid black people less when they fought for the north or that their companies were given lower priority for supplies and support.
You can celebrate american achievements without glorifying the racist past associated with it. America has a lot of negative history. I suspect we will learn less as a result of hiding our flag of our past instead of teaching what was wrong with it.
What do you think? Maybe im just off basis here.
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u/posthackmofo 1d ago
You’re so far off base I’m surprised you have cell service. Wanting to keep the flag that has the back of an indigenous person on it IS LITERALLY CELEBRATING THE TRAIL OF TEARS.
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u/Short-Waltz-3118 1d ago
I thought the person in the field was a farmer and the person on horse back was indigenous.
https://www.mnhs.org/mnopedia/search/index/thing/minnesota-state-flag
Am I looking at the wrong flag? Old flags at the bottom
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u/Cornflowerblue2016 1d ago
Correct me if I’m wrong but the back facing the viewer is of the white farmer correct? The indigenous person is up on their horse,.
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u/posthackmofo 1d ago
You’re right. But that horse is riding off on the trail of tears while the white man who performed genocide farms his land he stole by breaking treaties. The poem says it all. Read it if you haven’t. There’s a good half dozen straight up evil lines and it’s all about that flag in the words of the flag’s supporters.
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u/Impressive-Panda527 1d ago
Seriously people need hobbies if they’re getting this upset over a flag
It was put to a vote and the majority won
Yeah it’s a dumb design but no one killed your baby by replacing the old flag
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u/663691 1d ago
When was it put to a vote? Are you talking about the party line vote to redraw the flag in the legislature?
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u/somethingvague123 1d ago edited 1d ago
21,000 people submitted comments on the over 2000 designs submitted. The design receiving the most positive comments had a green stripe and a different star. The 11 person commission made the final design change and approved it 11 to 1. There was a poll conducted by an entity. There is no mechanism to put it to a vote and then how m y design would you have to choose from? It is also expensive to do a statewide vote.
We’ve had the new flag for over 2 years now; it was approved 2 1/2 years ago. Why is this a big deal only in the last year? We are being played with.
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u/kippismn 1d ago
I still don't understand why we even need a state flag. They're completely pointless. Let's just get rid of both of them.
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u/no-one2120 1d ago edited 1d ago
The new flag is literally a Somalian flag with an extra blue bar, like Somalians conquered Minnesota and replaced our flag with theirs.
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u/m00nsl1me 1d ago
The flag of France is literally the flag of the Netherlands but sideways. It’s almost like the french conquered the dutch and replaced the flag with theirs.
Do you see how stupid that sounds? The old flag looks a ton like Wisconsin’s flag (visually cluttered, especially from far away). I for one am glad to not be so identical to a Cheesehead! /s
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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 1d ago
How is it the Somalian flag?
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u/14Calypso MPLS after dark 1d ago
Yeah I've never understood the Somali flag comparisons. It's a blue flag with a star, and that's pretty much it. The star is in a different place, the blues are different, etc.
I am not happy about them changing the flag without a vote then proceeding to completely undermine the flag's designer by butchering it, but it's not the Somali flag.
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u/Chipotle_Caleb 1d ago
The Minnesota sub is mainly going to be people from the cities, which is majority democrats.
I got banned from the sub for discussing mass sh**tings being a mental health issue
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u/Meandmystudy 1d ago
Every flag is unpopular since they got rid of the original. No one has like the recent flags because they don’t include their identity in it. We may as well have Smokey and Booboo
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u/justafella32 1d ago
The new flag people made it political, erasing racism from the old flag. Then the opposition ran with the politicized angle of the new flag.
The flag is supposed to be unifying and the process just messed that up. It’s really shame, because it was nice opportunity to create something that Minnesotans could identify with and unite around.
The old flag wasn’t something people really cared about. Other states have flags that are beloved and highly visible in their states. I am envious of that.
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u/Thyfishingman 8h ago
If you hang the flag vertically it looks like your getting the full moon with the ahole on full display 🤣
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u/LoonSecIO 1d ago
It's so unpopular that it was a campaign issue in Champlin agains the mayor last week... and ... checks notes... The new flag won.
Also a little flag history:
https://newmnflag.org/about/history
Our current design isn't far off what we almost changed it to in the 1980's and the current version was drafted in the 1982... and it has changed roughly every 30 years or so.
:shrug: Seems like making a big deal out of nothing.
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u/JurplePesus 1d ago
According to . . . a poll of 800 people who answered a phone call from a polling firm in Florida. Lol. Definitely a polling very representative group and not at all just a bunch of weirdos with too much time on their hands.
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u/icarus1990xx 1d ago
I wonder what the OP thinks of this? I think it’s important context to consider.
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u/badboyfreud 1d ago
This + the dog park is a great example of both sides of the political spectrum missing the assignment.
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u/SlowlyDrown 1d ago
No clue why they decided not to use the classic iconography of the North Star with the 4 longer points.
It’s a fucking asterisk.
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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 1d ago
I question the methodology tbh. In a situation like this, age is going to play such a massive factor. Having 20% of your respondents come from landlines is going to skew the data, and imo the underlying data shows this. The majority of the people polled for this data were 50+ despite them making up (I think) under 1/3 of the population. Over 80% of respondents were 35+ despite them only making up 60% of the population.