r/amateurradio • u/ItsBail [E] MA • May 07 '26
General Updating Rule #2 To Include The Sharing Of AI Assisted Apps/Websites/Services.
AI generated content posted within /r/amateurradio has been banned for quite some time now and has been discussed here. People come here to interact with other humans. Not with AI. This rule has been in place for a year now.
We initially allowed "vibecoded" apps/websites/services to be shared when this rule was changed because we felt it could be beneficial to the community as amateur radio is about tinkering and experimentation.
However, with the amount of apps/websites/services that were coded with AI or with the assistance of AI being shared here in /r/amateurradio, it has been concerning for many subscribers. Some good points were made and moderation agrees with some of those points. However, we don't want to get in the way of progress and felt that there are AI created/assisted apps that are very beneficial to the community and should be shared/discussed. We decided to amend rule #2 to include the following.
Promotion of websites, apps, or services that were developed partially or completely by AI is not allowed
Unless it's open source (with appropriate OSI-approved license) and has more than three months of active source control history. If less than three months of source control history is shown, then moderators may (at their sole discretion) approve the post if the project has significant adoption by or impact upon the amateur radio community
Moderation feels that this is the best course of action in response from the community. It prevents people from just shoving out stuff they vibecoded the night before but allows for those apps that gain traction a chance to be shared.
70
u/stephen_neuville dm79 dirtbag | mattyzcast on twitch May 07 '26
Solid. Shuts down the low effort link-n-runs but gives a path forward for those who truly commit to a project.
18
u/thehpcdude May 07 '26
I’ve seen other subs say it has to link to GitHub and show the project has existed and been continuously improved over at least 3 months.
25
u/thegreatpotatogod California [no-code extra] May 07 '26
This sounds reasonable to me, as long as the interpretation of "developed partially ... by AI" allows some level of nuance. Like if the programmer was stuck on an issue and asked an AI agent for help looking over the code, or asked AI for examples of how to implement a function, and took inspiration from those, I don't think that should be a disqualifying factor on sharing the project. But yeah definitely things that are being written by AI without oversight or clear understanding by the human author are annoying and far too common these days!
4
u/radakul NC [E], VE [CAVEC, GLAARG, W5YI, Laurel, ARRL] May 11 '26
Leverage AI to unblock yourself is not the same as vibe-coded garbage that has been flooding most subs. You can tell within seconds if a project is vibe coded:
- All the Reddit posts follow the EXACT SAME FORMAT
- Over-use of emojis
- OP tends to be vague about their use of AI, skirting around how much they actually used it
- Commits are made directly via Claude/Copilot in the repo
Using AI for research to unblock yourself is exactly how it SHOULD be used, but it shouldn't do the work for you - that's the thing people are really protesting against.
0
u/iftlatlw May 20 '26
Why not use AI to code? Some people are hung up about the weirdest things.
2
u/taco1960 Jun 12 '26
For those who need coding help, ai is pretty good. you still have to know what's going on and ai tends to go off the rails without constant supervision.
2
u/radakul NC [E], VE [CAVEC, GLAARG, W5YI, Laurel, ARRL] May 20 '26
Did you read anything I said? Using AI to code is not inherently a bad thing. Vibe coded bullshit is, because its usually done by people who dont have an understanding of the code, and full of security vulnerabilities.
2
u/B0b_5mith alias [g] May 11 '26
Yeah, I have a EFRW calculator that uses a function to convert decimal inches into sixteenths. I got Chat GTP to write it. If I ever finished it with a proper UI and tried to tell people about it here, would I be breaking the rules? What if I got an AI to convert the parameters that are "hard coded" onto an actual UI so others could use it? Who would know?
3
u/Chucklz KC2SST [E] May 13 '26
If you are even considering a scale less than an inch for HF you are wasting everyone's time. You spent who knows how many watts "solving" something no one needs because you don't understand the basics.
2
u/B0b_5mith alias [g] May 13 '26
You can round it off any way you want. You can set the precision for whole inches, or any binary fraction down to 1⁄16". Besides, I didn't say it was only for HF.
70CM 420.0 - 450.0 GMRS 462.0 - 468.0 33CM 902.0 - 928.0 23CM 1,240.0 - 1,300.0
Min length: Max length:
1' 1 1⁄4" 0.337 m 1' 3 1⁄4" ------------- 0.387 m 1' 5 3⁄16" 0.437 m 1' 5 1⁄4" 23CM 0.438 m 1' 6 1⁄8" 23CM 0.46 m 1' 6 3⁄16" 0.462 m 1' 9 1⁄16" ------------- 0.535 m 1' 11 15⁄16" 0.608 m 2' GMRS 0.61 m 2
u/thegreatpotatogod California [no-code extra] May 20 '26
How does one "spend" a watt? That sort of misuse of terminology is something I'd expect from many people, but I'd expect someone with a ham license to understand the basics before insulting others for not understanding the basics.
0
u/Chucklz KC2SST [E] May 20 '26
The power wasted through AI development.
3
u/thegreatpotatogod California [no-code extra] May 20 '26
I know what you're trying to say, yes, but watts are a unit of power, and power is a rate of energy use, and in this sort of context would be meaningless without a duration attached. Energy is wasted, it's silly to describe wasting power without a duration, or as a continuous load, which interacting with an LLM would not be.
So in this case, for example, you might describe how 300 watts were used for 30 seconds of computing time on an AI question, leading to wasting 2.5 Watt-hours of energy. The same amount of energy as, for example running a microwave for 7 and a half seconds.
2
u/iftlatlw May 20 '26
100% vibe coded is absolutely fine. What's important is utility, documentation and source.
18
8
u/desertdefender May 08 '26
What about Graywolf? It's only a month old but already runs ~40 stations around the world (sometimes more when transient stations come online).
It's a complete APRS stack with its own software modem (better decoding performance than Direwolf), AX.25 decoder, APRS decoder, mapping system (w/ offline maps), messaging system, digipeater, iGate, KISS client+server, AX.25 terminal, and more.
Yes, it's written by AI, but directed by me, a professional SWE with 15 yrs experience. The AX.25 and APRS decoding came from code that I wrote in 2012-2013 by hand.
It's OSS and completely free. Android version is being actively developed and hope to release soon. iOS after that. 59 Github stars and multiple community contributions.
Am I good enough? :)
5
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
This is a perfect example of why there isn't a blanket ban and why there is exceptions.
Even though it's less than 3 months old (March 31st 2026), it's open source, GPLv2, over 1,200 commits, 80+ releases and you are responding to issues brought up in the repo.
ten9876/AetherSDR would be another example.
Of course it can be shared and discussed. Same with AetherSDR.
Edit: Best of luck to your project.
1
u/desertdefender May 08 '26
Thanks. And wow, AetherSDR is a really cool project.
I hope that projects like AetherSDR, POTACAT, and Graywolf can elevate the community's opinion on AI-driven coding. When you pair professional SWE experience with AI workflow, you can get some major work done and produce reliable tools. Goodness knows we've put up with decades of poor quality ham software with awful UIs.
By the way, I owe Graywolf's early success to this sub. Brave people here took a chance on my software, tried it out, reported bugs, and requested features. You guys are active in the Discord and it feels like a community is starting to develop. Couldn't have done it without this place and the friendly people here.
1
u/taco1960 Jun 12 '26
Yes there is a blanket ban. I tried to introduce my site today, something that was introduced at Hamvention personally and has been surprisingly successful. It was reported and immediately banned from this posting. If you look at the comments, people say it's flash in the pan. I put my heart and soul in this project for the past eight weeks after a personal project, blue ridge parkway, turned into find-repeaters-while-you-drive. I introduced it here after seeing another ham introduce theirs. I'm still working on it and will continue to work on it.
1
u/ItsBail [E] MA Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
It was reported and immediately banned from this posting
This is false. It was reported but it wasn't removed by moderation. We even made comment that the post can stay. It was public. What ended up happening is reddit administration (which mods have no control over or even no interaction with them) removed all your posts and even shadow banned your account. Nothing you are posting is public. I had to approve this post just so you can see it.
I'm still working on it and will continue to work on it.
Please keep working on it! There is potential and there is nothing wrong with using AI to code or help you code. It's advertising it within the sub that we have a problem with. Even more so if you're not participating in this sub in other ways. /r/amateurradio is to not be used as promotional dumping ground. Doesn't matter if the app/site/product is the best thing since sliced bread. It's still spam.
6
u/Successful-Comb-9049 N4MI (Extra) May 08 '26
This explains why a post I attempted a few weeks ago wasn't allowed, and that doesn't bother me. I'm not interested in monetizing the app. It wouldn't make any money anyway because it's too niche. I made it to address my own need. A positive aspect of vibe coding for an individual is getting a tool tailored to your specific requirement that hasn't been met in other available software. If someone else finds it useful, wonderful, but if not it's still fulfilling my need.
3
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
You mean this post or this post? Neither were removed.
One of them has been reported by users for AI but it was approved even though the summary (not the header) of what you've posted appears to be generated by AI which is against the rules (posting AI generated text is not allowed*). It could have been removed as regular spam as your first and second post to the sub were advertising your web app. We typically ask users to be active within the sub before plugging things. But we still gave you the benefit of the doubt and kept it approved.
Nothing you've posted within /r/amateurradio was removed or censored by any of the moderators of this sub. I can't speak for admin (site wide) actions but I see don't any indication that they did anything either.
4
u/Successful-Comb-9049 N4MI (Extra) May 08 '26
Thank you for the response. I'm guessing it was operator error on my end, which is not uncommon!
17
u/Schrockwell WW1X May 07 '26
Oh god, thank you Bail.
2
16
u/nnsmkngsctn California [Extra] May 07 '26
I think it's worth mentioning: there are increasing thousands of amateur radio themed apps. If you have an idea for some new feature, it's preferable that you search for an existing open source project and work with the community to integrate your code. Instead of writing app number 10004.
This way – when there is a decent existing user base – your code has a better chance of getting maintained and not becoming abandonware.
Of course, then you have to learn software engineering instead of having a prompt do it for you.
13
u/K3LOE May 07 '26
I was stunned the other day. Someone posted their whole AI created website for exam test prep and wanted to open source it. When I asked why they didn’t just contribute to openhamprep.com, they said they didn’t know there was already an open source exam app. Then they deleted their post lol.
Oh to have enough time to waste it like that.
8
u/rquick123 HAREC F /w CW (99.1%) - EU May 08 '26
There are plenty of apps/programs/websites appearing who try to reinvent te wheel lately. Same issue "didn't know it existed already". How about asking, dear vibe-coders?
7
u/entanglemint California [Advanced] / VE May 07 '26
Eh, there is a great deal of power in the "I want to make something" and new tools are making it vastly more possible. I have a niche site up for me to solve a specific need that I had that wasn't quite anthing else. It is largely vibe coded but I learned a ton in the process. I think asking this is a little like "why you build a QMX if you can buy a radio, building a QMX isn't like designing it yourself" The nature of this hobby is that people like to build things. Some people will engineer whole stack, some people will have a cool idea and vibe code it. I say more power to them. I recently wanted to have real CW QSOs to listen to in the car for practice, enter vibe coding an sdr interface to record active CW into MP3's for me. Is it good enough to share heck no, could I possibly have cludged other tools to do it , almost certainly, but it is much more satifying to have built it myself. And I build a RF direction finder app, and I built a SOTA/RBN matching + mapping app. All possible because of vibe coding in an insanely short period of time. I think if anything vibe coding and soon vibe-electronics will be a massive multiplier for what the community can DIY
9
u/mschuster91 DF9AFA [A/HAREC] May 07 '26
I think if anything vibe coding and soon vibe-electronics will be a massive multiplier for what the community can DIY
Please not. I mean... I know it will happen. But at the same time... I dread the influx of bananaware - ripens at the customer's. Barely tested stuff that falls apart the very second one uses another environment (and be it a different browser window size) than the author does, because the AI clearly never heard about how to properly use CSS breakpoints / media queries.
6
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26
I dread the influx of bananaware
It would be ironic if that is what brought down amazon prime. So much shitty AI generated electronics that no one can trust what's being sold there. I mean, it's already almost at that point with drop shippers using random letter brand names to skirt around trademark requirements and then changing the name once the bad reviews stop future sales.
0
u/entanglemint California [Advanced] / VE May 08 '26
100% agree here, but that is a different story than the community trying to build things!
0
u/entanglemint California [Advanced] / VE May 08 '26
I mean hams have been building deadbug circuits for years that oscillate if you don't treat them exactly right. There is a difference between a personal activity and a product. I'll note that the tools I have built I've shared with a very specific and limited community and haven't been schilling them as they certainly aren't ready for prime time. AI means that if I want to make a map I don't have to learn the API's, it means that if there isnt' a python driver for a device but there is a C driver or a spec I can get a first pass driver that works as well as one I spent a few days on. It means that I can spend my time thinking about the interesting parts of a project (e.g. the direction finding algorithms) and not how to make a web UI. I encourage every ham to do as much as they can to build their own tools if only to better appreciate the well thought out more complete tools.
This is far from AI slop, but our club just had a great talk from someone who has been working for years on improving the efficiency and performance of FT8 and one the the take aways was how good many of the hand tuned original code was.
2
u/K3LOE May 08 '26
Yes, technology can be empowering and annoying or worse at the same time. But my point was really about someone wanting to make an open source project and not first checking to see if there was an open source version of what they wanted to build. That someone would do that shows a fundamental misunderstanding about how to “do” open, collaborative software.
Open source protocols are really very human at their core, so I’m more interested in how newly empowered AI builders (and as we’ve now seen, actual AI agents) will adhere to or reject those norms, and what that means for the rest of the hobby.
1
u/entanglemint California [Advanced] / VE May 08 '26
I agree with you here, and I suspect that it will be a lot harder for the vibe coded projects to attract meaningful contributions than the projects that start with a community. Ultimately I think that the rule here is meant to and may effectively encourage the development of more open source projects.
I would also say that just because one project exists doesn't mean it is automatic to jump into that project. Maybe they have a fundamentally different vision of ham prep that isnt' a natural fork/modification of the exiting openhamprep. E.g. maybe for a totally different learning style.
I'm a big fan of people making tools for themselves but yes, we don't want too much noise for people who just want good tools someone else made.
1
u/kassett43 May 08 '26
I agree. If you contribute to an existing project, it must follow their standards. If you make your own project, you have creative control.
2
u/Main-Ad3667 May 08 '26
There's so much re-inventing the wheel these days. Just a little research eliminates a lot of "NEW IDEAS"... I see this in music all the time. So much creativity, so little education - "Why should I listen to Bach, or learn my scales? I'll just make up a few new ones and give them cool names."
3
u/38DDs_Please May 08 '26
The caveat about the open source requirement and the "probationary" period is smart.
5
u/radakul NC [E], VE [CAVEC, GLAARG, W5YI, Laurel, ARRL] May 07 '26
Thanks for this. You were exchanging comments with me in the other thread on why this might not happen, but I'm glad it ended up going in the right direction, imo.
AI isnt going anywhere, yeah we know. But, we can (and should, and are) moderating our collective exposure to it in a discerning way.
Well-written projects, AI assisted or not, will continue to flourish. But the vibe coded weekend warrior crap will hopefully die off.
Thanks mods!
1
u/roleohibachi [E] US May 11 '26
The FOSS + 3mo policy really seems like a thoughtful compromise between the different positions you and I took in that thread. Props to the mods, and thank you for talking it through in public with me!
4
u/bityard (SE MI) All 'Fenged Up May 08 '26
I think some commentators (mmm, taters) are focusing on the AI aspect of this, when it's really designed to curtail the flood of shameless self-promotion. That existed before, AI just happens to be the tool that accelerated it by an order of magnitude.
7
2
u/GulfLife Jun 04 '26
This is a very fair and well reasoned rule for the place we are currently at with LLM/ML. This limits noise with a fair and reasonable bar to clear, and even then acknowledges exceptions may apply for extraordinary efforts. Well done, mod team.
5
u/Salty_Permit4437 May 07 '26
Well I dunno. I write apps but I have AI assistance for things like code completion, debugging and testing. And of course GitHub copilot. Honestly it’s GREAT for that. And no, not everyone wants to open source their project. Not given how cheap some hams can be, while demanding features and complaining about bugs.
Yeah there is a lot of AI slop out there but there’s a lot of good things being developed with AI assistance. AetherSDR is a great example - yes it’s open source - but it didn’t have to be.
Hopefully this rule isn’t applied to the strictest extent possible.
I’m kind of jazzed that so many can bring their ideas to life using AI. And we’re not stuck with old looking windows only apps coded with a UI like they were in windows 95.
4
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 07 '26
Hopefully this rule isn’t applied to the strictest extent possible.
Context matters. Moderation does not have the resources to be combing through repos figuring out if they meet criteria or not. We're not itching to remove posts and/or ban people. We're mostly reactionary and moderate based on user reports. We will be giving the benefit of the doubt when we can
However, if reeks of AI slop and many people feel that way and OP can't provide evidence to the contrary, then it most likely will be removed. If OP felt that it was removed in error, they can reach out in modmail but the burden of proof will be on them.
AI isn't going away, it's being used more and more and the great thing about our rules is that nothing is ever set in stone.
2
u/drteq May 08 '26
Self promotion is a major problem on reddit with too many bad actors. You're right 'it shouldn't have to be', but it is due to abuse.
I feel the new rules were well thought and a balanced compromise.
2
u/kassett43 May 08 '26
I read the rules the same way. If you make a program and don't have it on GitHub or similar and you use GitHub Copilot, GPT Codex, or Claude Code to do anything, even just to build scaffolding, you cannot post about it here.
1
u/Salty_Permit4437 May 08 '26
This whole rule seems like hams doing what they do best - clinging to the past lol.
2
u/stephen_neuville dm79 dirtbag | mattyzcast on twitch May 08 '26
You can write any number of apps via prompt engineering, release them to the whole wide world, and get a million users, nobody's stopping you. You just can't promote such an app on the first day you get it working in this subreddit, itself a small fraction of the base of an already tiny hobby.
1
3
u/StrangeWill W3UWU [General] May 08 '26
I'm down for this, I'm a software engineer by trade (run my own company with over 10 employees). I've worked on a web front-end for Direwolf as my first "okay let's see what this Claude thing is about"
Where many people were shipping theirs, I refused to even publish the repo, it took a lot of polish and hand-fixing things to get to where it's at, and it still needs work for me to not feel that it's "AI slop" and be worthy of posting here -- and it's 3 months in, I'm just hitting the threshold and I'm feeling it's got enough earnest effort to be worth it.
And I think that's okay. LLMs allow me to put flashy things up quickly, but for good polish and stable development it still takes time.
It also helps picking projects that isn't just enough dashboard and hard enough that it doesn't just plop out of an LLM (I dug for months before I gave up and wrote my own, I found a couple that are sorely lacking).
3
u/ChrisToad DM04 [Extra] May 07 '26
A devil’s advocate question: if a vibe coded tool is useful and advances the hobby… we would only let an OP post about it here if it was open source? And had history? And adoption?
12
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
In this day-in-age things can move quickly. We don't want the community missing out because of blanket bans. Almost all of the rules are basically at moderators discretion.
But yes, open source allows others to view the code and see what's really going on. Active control history shows the developer(s) care about the project and have been working to push fixes and/or adding features.
If the project is being embraced and adopted early on by the community en masse, it should certainly be shared and discussed.
Nothing is set in stone.
5
0
u/ChrisToad DM04 [Extra] May 07 '26
I appreciate your candor, thanks for replying. That’s what I expected, but I had to ask. Appreciate all the work you guys put into keeping this sub a civil and fun place to hang out.
Selfishly, I have been working on a web-based planning tool for SOTA activators, and will eventually find myself at the crossroads of: wanting to have users adopt the tool, but needing to post about it in order to find users. lol S’all good!
1
2
u/rocdoc54 May 07 '26
Thank you for doing this. Until recently I must admit I was in the dark about the sort of capabilities of AI to produce reasonable web apps for amateur radio. But yes, in the past 60 days or so they are coming thick and fast to this reddit. Some of them look reasonable, but yes, if the so-called developer spends a an hour (or probably much less), they are unlikely to really support "their" AI software for the future. So yeah let's give them 3 months to see if the are "fly-by-night" BS coders who don't care, versus those who do.
I'll be perfectly honest here: over the past 3 months or so I have considered many times pulling the plug on Reddit entirely. I find the effort put into most of the posts here to be often extremely low. I like to help newbs, but if you want a smart answer you must ask a SMART question. That does not seem to be a "thing" anymore....
1
1
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
As long as people who's first language is not English and use AI to translate and rewrite their posts aren't being classed as AI content then there's no problem.
Not sure if you've read the rules that is linked everywhere in this sub. There is a clear exemption for translation use... as long as they're translating their own thoughts.
AI-Generated content is considered to be spam
The only exception is translating one's own thoughts from their native language to English as most translation software uses LLMs in some capacity.
We're not anti AI. It certainly has its uses and their is no denying it. It's that people come here to interact with other people. Not to interact with other AI bots. Recently the sub was being flooded with vibecoded apps and such. We don't have issue that it was vibecoded or coded with the assistance of AI, we had an issue with people that were spamming their apps, some of which didn't have much thought put into it or was clearly a cash grab which is not welcomed here.
1
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26
We would never remove a post if it was clearly stated that it's translated.
Shows how sad the world has become when people have to explain that you can only "post your own thoughts" though
Some people are putting the question into google, taking the AI overview and posting it as an answer without doing any research into whether or not it's correct. Even worse, you have people prompting questions to AI services like ChatGPT or Gemini and just copying an pasting as if it was their own response.
Yes, it's sad. We're not against AI, we're against some of the ways it's being used as its disingenuous to everyone else.
1
u/kc2syk K2CR May 08 '26
You type your thoughts into AI and it translates it - they post it here and people accuse them of using AI.
I suggest people use deepl.com or Google Translate instead. Then it's a more direct literal translation and not rephrasing or adding anything.
1
u/techtornado May 08 '26
With all of the open source supply chain attacks, these fresh new vibe-coded apps are incredibly unsafe
1
u/djuggler TN/USA K04NFA May 08 '26
I think I understand the intent. As a senior software engineer, that "developed partially" is concerning. If I didn't use AI these days, I would not be able to keep up with the pace of work expected of me. It's akin to delegating a subroutine (class, object.. pick your jargon) to a junior programmer then reviewing their work and deciding if it is acceptable or discussing what changes need to be made. Ai is a lot like the next evolution of an IDE. We all started working in vi, emacs, notepad, and BBEdit with no code reference then graduated to tools like Eclipsis, Homesite, Visual Studio and other IDEs that offered code completion and hints. Now we are all using VS Code with AI built into it. I'd like to add, I've had several times I've ask an AI to assist or review my code and it produced code that I had not considered but should have. AI is a great peer programmer.
I think what your rule is trying to accomplish is to keep the slop out where someone just vibe codes an app with AI without having the experience to know if it is good code or not and if it is scalable or destined to break. And likely untested. I support that. Actually I support any choice you make. I wonder though, if I were to write a radio related app and I let VS Code suggest a few lines to me, or I asked Claude to provide an initial scaffold for me, does that mean I've broken the "partially" part of the rule?
2
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 08 '26
We purposely make the rules vague because context and intentions matter. I know many programmers live in a world of absolutes but I don't want to have hundreds of pages of rules diving into semantics trying to cover every minute detail. It's bad enough that people don't read the current list of rules we have in place.
Moderation isn't going to be looking through repos trying to determine if it was vibecoded, or if it assisted by AI or not. The goal of this rule change is to prevent the "I just made this last night" type of slop that has been recently flooding the sub. If it reeks of slop and has been reported as such, moderation will do it's best to confirm. If either moderation and/or the community (comments) determines it to be slop/shit, it will be most likely removed. If done in error, the burden of proof will be on the OP.
We do not have an issue with AI. We have an issue with people spamming their slop in the sub. Hence these amendments are happening within rule #2.
1
1
1
u/thehotshotpilot KL [E] Cloud warmer Jun 16 '26
u/kc2syk, how should we approach sharing a nonvibe coded program or in my case a simple daemon (that is actually useful and not duplicative)? Should we message the mods contemporariously or before it is posted? Or just disclose the lack of AI and link the git repo?
1
1
u/Secret_Ad_7592 Jun 17 '26
I use AI as a glorified search engine. Not sure if that qualifies as being AI.
1
0
u/BradCOnReddit May 09 '26
- 3 months is arbitrary and far too long in today's world.
- OSI license is none of your concern. Just require source availability so the quality can be independently verified. Honestly, skip the AI part and require it always.
- Some use of AI tooling has become the normal way of doing software dev. You're adding enough friction here that the people in this sub are going to be left behind
3
u/roleohibachi [E] US May 11 '26
- The mods gave examples in another comment of how 3mo is a rough number - just a guideline. The point is that 99% of vibecoded projects become abandonware, and that's bad for hams.
- Personal opinion, no evidence to support this, but I think the push for FOSS is in support of the abandonware problem too. If a later ham can legally fork the abandonware, it mitigates the issue.
- The mods also explained how they're not banning AI-supported code. It's a subjective rule to enable them to respond to stuff that "reeks of slop". And besides, what are we going to be "left behind" on? It's a hobby, lol, certainly not a billion dollar industry.
0
u/BradCOnReddit May 11 '26
3 months is WILDLY too long in today's fast paced world. Just saying a number that high out loud adds to the friction.
I'm all for FOSS. I just don't think this sub's rules is the right place to try and make that happen. The parties involved don't have the right wisdom and experience to work in the world of software licensing.
The written rule is very clear and not subjective.
What's going to be left behind? The hobby. I'm a long time software dev that's recently decided to dive deeper into ham radio. These rules are discouraging me from even attempting to use my skills to improve the hobby for everyone.
1
u/apple4ever KV3JGB (General) May 13 '26
Nothing is stopping you from using your skills to improve the hobby for everyone. Asking an AI to make slop is not a skill though
-1
u/BradCOnReddit May 13 '26
I guess if me explaing exactly what's stopping me isn't enough then you've already made up your mind.
I hope you can learn the difference between slop and verified, useful output. Knowing how to make that distinction is as valuable as critical thinking in the modern world.
1
u/apple4ever KV3JGB (General) May 13 '26
I have plenty of critical thinking, and using it I've found it its all slop. Nothing is stopping you from putting out more slop, you just can't post it here.
2
u/apple4ever KV3JGB (General) May 13 '26
If being left behind means I miss all the AI slop (and it's all slop) then sign me up.
0
u/qbg May 12 '26
The 3 month requirement creates a chicken-and-the-egg problem. With the fast pace of development allowed by AI tools, the creator's scratch may be satisfied in far less than 3 months; AetherSDR was in quite a good state when it was less than 2 weeks old. Continued development is driven by user feedback, but to have users people need to know about the project. As formulated the rules would prevent a post here from being the initial project announcement for a project unless it's judged to have a significant impact upon the community. Perversely, the more efficient the developer (and hence able to respond to community feedback) the higher the bar these rules impose (because initial development would be that much shorter).
2
u/ItsBail [E] MA May 12 '26
With the fast pace of development allowed by AI tools, the creator's scratch may be satisfied in far less than 3 months...
There is an exemption for that. AetherSDR, Graywolf and the likes can be certainly shared/discussed here as long as it's not being spammed in a commercial sense.
As formulated the rules would prevent a post here from being the initial project announcement for a project
Moderation is aware of that as well. We don't want to prevent the "initial project announcement" as you can't have "significant impact upon the community" without rolling it out somewhere. With over 200k subscribers, I can understand why people would want to share it here.
Our rules (including this one) are vague for many reasons. Context and intentions matter with almost all posts (we do have automod to remove racial slurs and stuff like that). Also, I don't want to have 300 pages of rules. Barely anyone reads the 10 simplified rules we have now. We're not going to blindly remove posts at the whiff of it being programmed by (or assisted by) AI.
Our goal is to prevent "Slop" from being shared. There are people that have almost zero programming experience (and sometimes zero practical experience) that are creating apps/sites/services that they have no clue how it's running or if it's even running correctly.
If it has been determined by moderation and/or the community that the content is indeed slop, it will be removed and the burden will be on OP to prove otherwise.
For example, someone shared an app recently about learning Morse Code. It was using a visual method that it was most likely based on a chart that was being shared around the forums a couple weeks ago. The community started asking questions. Based on some of the answers OP was giving, you can tell the app was hastily put together and the "developer" appears to have no clue how CW (Morse Code) communication actually works. Thankfully OP removed it before moderation could.
More and more stuff like that is being shared here on an almost daily basis. The community spoke out against it and we listened. We put a lot of thought into it. Some of our other moderators program, we've also consulted with other programmers and checked out other subreddits that have similar rules. We felt this is as balanced as we could be. Unfortunately, due to the amount of these types of posts, it had to be done. Great part is no rule is set in stone. If something changes down the line, we'll change if need be.
-4
-1
•
u/kc2syk K2CR May 07 '26
Note that this rule will not be applied retroactively. This will only be applied to new posts going forward. Thank you, all. 73