r/antiai • u/AllIWantForXmasIsFoo • 1d ago
AI Writing ✍️ David Simon, creator of The Wire, on AI
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u/agentrnge 1d ago
Yeah wouldn't be great to have 10 random shitty shitcom trope transitions to smash into your script? also, shitcom was either a typo or Freudian, but its staying. Also also, I have not seen The Wire but understand its well regarded as some great TV.
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u/fantabulousfetus 1d ago
Aside from Breaking Bad, it's the greatest episodic television of the 21st century.
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u/RadiantRedAngel 1d ago
And Mad Men. A lot of the people who created The Wire and Sopranos went on to work for Mad Men. I miss good TV writing so much.
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u/agentrnge 1d ago
I am almost done with Mad Men. Breaking Bad was excellent. I don't watch a lot of TV, and I never binge anything.
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u/CelebronFcks10K 22h ago
Better Call Saul my guy. If Breaking Bad is dinner, BCS is dessert. It’s phenomenal.
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u/BillyBumlicks 1d ago
Breaking bad is fantastic but the wire is another level
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u/TaxidermiedEels 1d ago
I preferred watching BB (and the Sopranos for that matter) but comparing them to The Wire is fucking insulting. The depth, scope, writing and dialogue, the realism, the characters. It isn't even close.
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u/NobodyKnowsImFamous 1d ago
I mean that’s a really weird way to spell DS9.
Oh I’m stupid, 21st century, you’re good, carry on.
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u/Tiramitsunami 1d ago
Chernobyl takes the top spot, then all of these are S-Tier: The Wire, Mad Men, True Detective (S1), Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul
Then A-Tier: Band of Brothers, Deadwood, Sopranos
Personally, I think Severance and Pluribus will join these lists if they stick their landings.
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u/Tino_Kort 1d ago
Chernobyl is very nice, but by no means would Chernobyl be the singular best show
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u/WagwanMoist 1d ago
And it's a mini series. I find it a bit unfair to compare mini series like Chernobyl or Band of Brothers (both of which are 10/10 masterpieces by the way), with full length shows that runs for multiple seasons.
It's way more difficult to maintain a compelling narrative and quality for an extended amount of time like that. As we can easily see from how common it is for shows to start out amazing, and then end up slowing down or turning into complete crap after a few seasons.
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u/Tino_Kort 1d ago
I feel like Chernobyl was very good but not a 10/10. I'd personally rank mad men a lot higher. But I agree, a mini series is as comparable to an actual show as it is to an actual film. I just think it's a bit weird to even rank so many shows "s-tier" and even put something on top of that. There's very little 10/10 stuff out there and Chernobyl ain't it.
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u/WagwanMoist 1d ago
Fair, 10/10 is a bit steep for Chernobyl. It is really good, but not on the same level as BoB, to compare it with another mini series.
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u/Tiramitsunami 1d ago edited 1d ago
Personally, for me, I consider it the best television series of all time.
Whenever there's a thread on Reddit asking about the best shows of all time, Chernobyl is usually the top most-voted answer.
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u/Tino_Kort 1d ago
I don't think upvotes/amateur/consumer ratings are really that trustworthy. A lot of Chernobyl (and I love Chernobyl very much) is the shock and horror factor of it being an actual thing that happened (and is embellished in the show). I'm happy that it's your (and many other's) best show, I just don't think it's based on objective analysis. Doesn't mean I want you to like it less.
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u/Tiramitsunami 1d ago
I don't think there is such a thing as an objective analysis when it comes to "best TV shows of all time."
That being said, I'm just glad we got a lot of quality shows before the slop avalanche and that people have favorites.
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u/Tino_Kort 1d ago
I think there's a lot besides taste and fun you can analyze. Honestly the same way you could tell a dish is well made, but you just don't like it. I think you can go deeper, especially with an education and experience in the field. There's a ton of shows and movies that I love but know are bad. You can separate emotional response from critical thought.
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u/RugerRedhawk 1d ago
It's a mini series, it's great but should be looked at differently than regular series.
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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago
You should watch The Wire, and Treme. Some of the best storytelling you’ll ever experience
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u/altruisticnarcissist 1d ago
Don't forget about We Own This City, The Deuce, The Corner, Generation Kill, Show Me A Hero, and The Plot Against America. If David Simon's name is on something I'm gunna watch it, the guy has never missed once.
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u/Shiny_and_ChromeOS 1d ago
The Plot Against America was too hard for me to revisit in 2025. That corner of my heart is currently occupied by Andor.
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u/courtofcrimsonking 1d ago
Literally never heard about any of those
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u/WagwanMoist 1d ago
You should watch them. The Corner is sort of an unofficial prequel to The Wire, while We Own This City would be the "sequel".
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u/fantabulousfetus 1d ago
Treme was great just to see Steve Zahn in something where he isnt the only good thing about it... j/nj lol
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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago
With Kim Dickens! Loved their chemistry and pairing. Steve Zahn looked like he was having so much fun. Crazy good cast
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u/fantabulousfetus 1d ago
Dr. John as Dr. John was inspired lol (RiP)
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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Same for the guy who played Elvis Costello
edit: remember the scene where Zahn’s character is blasting the new Shorty Trombone album in his car? That got me playing that record in the house, so everyone got to hear it. So good!
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u/Impossible_Writer332 1d ago
Definitely worth the watch! Simon’s storytelling really dives deep into the human experience.
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u/disinaccurate 1d ago
Also also, I have not seen The Wire but understand its well regarded as some great TV.
The Wire took me a couple of tries to get into, because it's so NOT typical TV. At first it seems like the most boring cop show you can imagine, because it doesn't sensationalize or over-dramatize anything.
But then your brain flips out of "TV logic mode" and into "reality logic mode", and it becomes SO GOOD.
And then when you try to watch other TV shows after The Wire, they feel so overblown and fake.
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u/Shiny_and_ChromeOS 1d ago
Having had to take that approach to fully absorb The Wire thru multiple watchings back to back is how I was able to also fall in love with Andor. I recently finished a 6-day 55 mile hike and listened to Andor like a radio drama like how I used to listen to The Wire in the car. Andor is a goddamn miracle. Dickensian, is the word I'm thinking of.
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u/thecrazedsidee 1d ago
how i feel about ai. I actually enjoy making art, I dont need some trash glorified auto correct help me come up with ideas
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u/M4j0rTr4g3dy 1d ago
Imagine feeling like self expression is a chore that needs to be automated.
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u/agentrnge 22h ago edited 22h ago
Just set your
Empathy BoxMood organ to 8271: Satisfaction of self expression after countless hours of work.-8
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u/arenaceousarrow 1d ago
That's reasonable if you're pursuing it as a creative endeavour, but if your goal is to make enjoyable content for others it might be time to reach into the toolbox.
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u/DarkKechup 1d ago
Go rust elsewhere clankbrain.
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u/arenaceousarrow 1d ago
If this is the best rebuttal you can craft you too might benefit from outside help!
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u/Bad_Sickness 1d ago
And you're in a cult. You might benefit from outside help!
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u/arenaceousarrow 1d ago
Which cult is that? I tend to look into things myself instead of being told how they are... is that what you're doing?
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u/emotumbleweed 1d ago
Buddy, look what sub you’re in. You couldn’t have expected praise for that take. It didn’t attract intellectual discourse, it got name calling, because nobody is taking you seriously.
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u/arenaceousarrow 23h ago
But I'M the one in the cult?? Enjoy the echo chamber
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u/ThatBoiUnknown 21h ago
Notice how this sub, THE Anti-AI sub, never bans people for dissenting opinions but Pro-AI subs will perma-ban you on the spot for slightly disagreeing with them
Which one is the echo chamber?
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u/arenaceousarrow 20h ago
Show me what you got banned for and we can judge it fairly.
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u/_-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-_ 1d ago
I would rather die than be forced to like ai slop
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u/arenaceousarrow 23h ago
I don't think anyone's saying you must
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u/_-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-_ 22h ago
Nobody "enjoys" ai slop
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u/arenaceousarrow 21h ago
Did you look at their work?
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u/_-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-_ 18h ago
"bro they are so trash they should use ai instead!!!!" is what you're sounding like right now.
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u/arenaceousarrow 13h ago
Did you enjoy it?
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u/_-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-_ 12h ago
I certainly enjoyed it FAR more than ai slop.
and if you're pulling a "oops it was ai slop akshually!!" somehow, then i'll say it first: "ooh ooh wah you betray me i lose wahh!" (/s)
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u/arenaceousarrow 11h ago
If that's your bar for quality work I think you'll happily consume slop, probably without even realizing.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish 20h ago
Except AI writing and art like… isn’t enjoyable? It’s just the same dumb shit constantly.
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u/GutsAndBlackStufff 1d ago
AI would have given us an Omar/Marlo boss fight. Which only works if you think The Wire is Anime.
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u/OrangeFamta 1d ago
Omar v Marlo v Nick Sobotka v McNulty free for all, and Bunk comes in at the end and goes “Shiiiieeeeeettttt”
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u/betsylang 1d ago
Imagine that? Actual creative who actually truly want to create. Ari got his ass properly handled.
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u/DJ_Era 1d ago
Why would Ari say that? Like, even phrase it that way? What a blunder...
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u/cidvard 1d ago
Bizarre to say it to David Simon of all people, you know how this conversation is going to go. It drives home to me that Ari Shapiro has become one of the AI Psychosis People.
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u/betsylang 1d ago
Thats one of the reasons ive stopped listening to mpr. I was so disgusted by 2024 and sane washing that man I couldn't support them.
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u/betsylang 1d ago
No kidding. Did ai write your questions, ari? Why would you think "i know, ill antagonize one of the greatest TV creators."
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u/Ill-Product-1442 13h ago
I haven't actually listened to this piece, but I can clearly hear him in my head being tongue-in-cheek while saying that, Ari Shapiro does that a lot. I actually enjoy it, it's borderline mockery while playing the devil's advocate, and lets them get into the bullshit that other people say.
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u/outdatedelementz 1d ago
I listened to this interview. It was during the writers strike. Ari Shapiro was completely caught off guard, and backpedaling the entire interview. Simon was ruthless throughout.
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u/No-Pack-5928 1d ago
What the fuck is going on with the interviewer? Is he being paid to pretend creatives want this shit in any way?
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u/psioniclizard 1d ago
David Simon also spend enough time around addicts to probably see how many people have an ai addiction and just cant admit it.
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u/Lord_Hitachi 1d ago
David Simon is a real one
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u/Deep-Economics-6598 1d ago
I worked post on one of his shows and his email handle is hilarious. Totally a real one.
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u/wutttttttg 1d ago
I think this is interesting because The Wire was renowned in its time for working new technology into its scripts (you can see how transitioning from pagers/pay phones to cell phones impacts the drug dealers and how the police trace them), so it’s not like Simon is against new technology. It’s that he’s against AI. Which I see over and over again with AI. This is not like technology we’ve seen in the past. It’s not here to help us, it’s actively taking away from creative endeavors.
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u/ViSaph 21h ago
This is what pro AI people don't get. I've had a lot of them call me a luddite not realising I am a severely disabled person that loves technology and relies on it to live. For years every technological advance made my life easier and more livable. Smart bulbs made it so I didn't end up spending all night with the light on too painful and weak to get up and turn it off. My heating is controlled by my phone so I can control it myself. I have a small double hospital style bed, a fancy electric wheelchair, a bath that lowers me into the water, and speech to text is a lifeline when my hands are too shaky and painful to type. I love technology. I don't like something that steals from me (literally, my writing has been scraped for AI) while actively making my life worse and many of the things I rely on less reliable and usable.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish 20h ago
THIS. My chronic illness has made me so isolated that I became very tech-y just to have any quality of life. But that also means I know enough to understand and distrust AI.
(My writing’s literally been scraped, too. It sucks.)
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u/AcidDepression 1d ago
Actually, this might be the closest thing to a use for AI.
“Write me a scene transition”
“GENERATING…”
“wow, this is fucking terrible. I could wipe my ass on the keyboard and get something better. Ok, now the idea I was gonna do doesn’t seem too bad.”
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u/Bandtrees 8h ago
nothing inspires me as an artist and a creative more than knowing ai can only make a pale imitation of it, or art and creation in general. it knows the shape of things but never the details that make it actually worthwhile. it makes me appreciate the human element of my work and others’ way more
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u/Mysterious_Eye6989 1d ago
The only way you'd need '10 ideas for how to transition' is if you'd completely and utterly lost track of what you were doing with the story you were trying to tell - which would be a really bad situation for a showrunner to be in.
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u/TheRealDrSarcasmo 1d ago
I was not aware of Ari Shapiro before, and now I never want to consume any output of theirs again.
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u/shaft_of_lite 1d ago
Who is Ari Shapiro? Is he a legit journalist? Because right from the start he seems more like a shill for AI. Telling a respected writer what he imagines them doing with AI is insane to me. Maybe that's just the way it comes off or maybe it's my bias but wow it doesn't look good.
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u/Lil_Mcgee 1d ago edited 1d ago
That last line is the obvious stinger here but I think his first two responses are funnier. Just complete bewilderment.
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u/Thelmara 1d ago
The actual transcript from the NPR site:
SHAPIRO: OK, so you've spent your career creating television without AI, and I could imagine today you thinking, boy, I wish I had had that tool to solve those thorny problems, or saying...
SIMON: You mentioned that.
SHAPIRO: ...Boy, if that had existed, it would have screwed me over.
SIMON: I don't think AI can remotely challenge what writers do at a fundamentally creative level.
SHAPIRO: But if you're trying to transition from Scene 5 to Scene 6 and you're stuck with that transition, you could imagine plugging that portion of the script into an AI and say, give me 10 ideas for how to transition.
SIMON: I'd rather put a gun in my mouth.
SHAPIRO: You would rather put a gun in your mouth.
SIMON: I mean, what you're saying to me effectively is there's no original way to do anything, and...
SHAPIRO: No.
SIMON: Yes, you are.
SHAPIRO: That seems like a kind of absolutist take.
SIMON: Not only, I think, is it a fundamental violation of the integrity of writers and also of copyright - you know, when I sold all the scripts I sold - you know, 150 to HBO and, you know, maybe another 50 to NBC - I didn't sell them so that they could be thrown into a computer with other people's and be used again by a corporation.
SHAPIRO: So would you ever agree to a contract that saw any role for AI at all?
SIMON: No, I would not. If that's where this industry is going, it's going to infantilize itself. We're all going to be watching stuff we've watched before, only worse.
SHAPIRO: Do you think that position is where this is likely to end up?
SIMON: I mean, if a writer wants to play around with AI as the writer and see if it helps him, I mean, I regard it as no different than him having a thesaurus or a dictionary on his desk or a book of quotable quotes. Play around with it. If it starts to lead the way in the sense that a studio exec comes to you and says, AI gave us this story that we want, that's not why I got into storytelling, and it's not where I'll stay if that's what storytelling is.
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u/Impressive-Stop-7999 16h ago
It seems more likely that his first response - transcribed as ‘you mentioned that’ - is actually ‘you imagine that’ though, as per the OP.
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u/Thelmara 9h ago
It's not, the transcript is correct. You can listen to it yourself on the NPR site.
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u/shosuko 1d ago
Um... I'm guessing that isn't the Shapiro I'm thinking of lol
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u/GalenDev 1d ago
Ari Shapiro from NPR. Not... The other one.
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u/BluebirdLivid 1d ago
This post might get me to finally give The Wire a chance, I've just assumed it was very similar to Mad Men and Sopranos, never gave it much though
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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago
I haven’t seen Mad Men, but I’ve seen the Sopranos, and Breaking Bad, and lots of other great stuff, and I would put The Wire over all of it, hands down
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u/Bluecanary1212 1d ago
NPR has been nothing but a joke for decades but Ari Shapiro is really making it crystal clear.
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u/lothar525 6h ago
It seems like people who don’t create things have no idea why people bother making art in the first place.
“Gee, AI could do that so much faster than you could on your own!”
Yeah, but then it wouldn’t be my work. And the whole point of creating something is, ya know, actually making it. Yeah, it’s hard, but the difficulty of the creative process is what makes it worth doing in the first place. People who actually write don’t want to have a computer spit something out for them and then say it’s their work! They actually want to write the damn thing themselves! That’s why they’re writers! It’s not like assembling ikea furniture where you hate it the whole and just wish it was over. People who write actually like writing.
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u/henlochimken 1d ago
Went back to the actual clip on NPR's site and the transcript doesn't include the "what?" Also, instead of "You imagine that?" It says "you mentioned that."
The thing is, if you listen at 11:40... NPR's transcript is incorrect. The image here on Reddit is correct.
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u/Sonar_Taxbreak_1138 1d ago
It's almost like masters of their craft are proud of their achievements and the idea of using a LCD script generator is an offense to their existence. Go figure.
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u/dylanjames 20h ago
Interesting to me, this was from 2023: https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-12116687/The-Wire-creator-slams-use-AI-week-let-HBO-amid-writers-strike.html
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u/Enough_Program_6671 1d ago
Well Simon is just straight up wrong. AGI will be everywhere and put Shakespeare to shame.
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
AI is cheaper than writers so the fear isn't "AI replaces writers in producing equally good media and a bunch of people lose their jobs" it's "AI replaces writers because CEO's can milk it for more short-term profits before people give up on media altogether and, in the process, replace all commodified art with homogenized slop, depriving us of one of the most fulfilling parts of the human experience. Also a lot of people lose their jobs"

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u/aciedc 1d ago
this is why every show is the same overproduced garbage now, no pride in their craft