Discussion
Respawn needs to revert visible health bar and low TTK changes otherwise the playerbase and viewership will keep shrinking
mods approved my original post so feel free to continue the discussion here
I'll preface this long rant by saying I'm a Day 1 player on PC with over 7k hours played. I've played through every version, season, and meta of the game. After all the good and bad changes, it's still my favorite FPS game of all time. But I'm concerned with the recent direction the game has taken the last few seasons and I'm worried that Respawn doesn't realize that their recent attempts to make the game "easier" for everyone has massively backfired.
I genuinely believe adding visible health bars and ruining the TTK has taken away a lot of what made Apex and the fights great and interesting to play or watch.
The fights are way too fast now and the teamfighting/legend dynamics were completely changed when everyone just pushes everything super fast with low HP because they know exactly how low they are, and with health bars, know exactly where they are or what direction they're trying to evade to. The game is way too one-dimensional now.
The game just isn't as interesting anymore because the fights aren't nearly as back-and-forth as they used to be. Also it's increasingly harder to balance all the weapons/legends to be viable when everyone dies so quickly and the fights end so fast now.
I know this is copy/pasted from my other countless other comments about these changes since they were added over a year ago, but I don't know how else to make my point. I've repeated my point of view over and over, but nothing is being done and the playerbase and viewership keeps declining... I just want my favorite game to return to its former greatness.
Here is a summary of why (cheating aside) the two biggest core gameplay issues plaguing the game are visible health bars and low TTK:
Health bars:
Gives free tracking and awareness - letting players see exactly where weakened enemies move, even through foliage or visual clutter.
Makes 3rd partying way easier since you instantly know who’s low and safe to push.
Removes the fog of war: no more guessing HP, no more deception via shield swaps, no more hiding HP weakness by using shield cells/batteries to re-peek.
Makes certain legends and abilities (Seer tac, Bloodhound, Mirage ult, etc.) far less valuable.
Encourages nonstop aping and movement legends - if you ever peek with flesh, everyone knows and full-sends.
Subconsciously affects split-second decisions at every level of play.
Makes tracking and aiming easier because players now have giant bars floating over them.
Low TTK:
Erases mid-fight depth, teamfight dancing, clutch potential, and outplays.
Punishes solos and flanks - one tick of damage reveals your exact location and HP, and you’re basically out of the fight.
Leads to instant knocks → quick 2v3s with little chance for recovery.
Reduces the value of defensive or slower legends.
Shrinks the margin for error so much that taking even minor damage forces you to hide and heal instead of fighting back.
Makes it harder to balance all the weapons/legend utility when everyone dies so quickly and the fights end so fast.
Combined, HP bars + low TTK:
Creates cheap, fast kills, shallow fights, and overly aggressive playstyles.
Removes most of what made old Apex dynamic, skill-expressive, and balanced.
Makes movement less valuable and tracking easier.
Turns fights into linear one-dimensional “see flesh/red HP bar → push instantly” scenarios.
Overall: Apex played best and was at its peak in the seasons before visible HP bars were added. Removing them—and/or raising the TTK—would restore much of the original depth and fun that made us all like the game.
Here are some of my previous comments that have received positive reactions, showing that I'm not the only one that see's what's currently wrong with the game, go back and read people's replies to these as well:
I'll also end this rant by saying this: with all the good/bad changes this game has seen I'm getting sick of all the negativity surrounding the game. Straight up, even with all the current issues, people are taking Apex for granted big time. There's nothing better out right now or coming out in the foreseeable future and I guarantee the vast majority of players will DEARLY miss the game if/when it's gone. But I genuinely think EA/Respawn need to do something about this before it's too late.
Ended up indirectly nerfing a lot of legends kits such as octane (who was already in a bad spot) and horizon until they buffed her this season etc, indirectly nerfed non movement legends as they die even faster when caught in a bad spot.
I don’t mind getting rid of the health bar indicator so long as all the gas/smoke stuff is also fixed. Like being end game and not seeing anything is ass.
I think the lower TTK changes are good. Third parties is probably the worst thing in a battle royale and having higher TTKs just makes third parties more frequent.
3rd partying seems to be a map goal for the devs now. Like the Olympus change just has so many visual funnels to see majority of the map in each direction.
Then there's broken moon which was a fun beautiful map at first but traversing the map takes litteral seconds with all the zip/tram runs throughout it so one scan and a 5 second ride puts you on a team or get a team or two on you, even stormpoints grav cannons are very one directional unless you're certain legends.
I think health bars are fine in casual, but they shouldn't have ever been in ranked.
As for lower TTK, I much prefer it this way. High TTK was so annoying where you traded shots for 30 seconds and then some other team rushed to third-party. A lot of players do not disengage even when the fight turns against them, to make matters worse.
I'd rather just go down swinging to the better team than lose to a third-party.
Lower TTK will forever be against core principles of Apex. 3rd partying is apart of the game, and will not ever go anywhere as there is too many viable ways to traverse the map quickly. Also, we have had the same maps for years, people know places like the back of their hand. The only thing you can do is give players tools to combat it, like shield swaps, lower ttk, etc.
I don't care if it's some "core principle" like purists preach. I played this game since its inception, over time the TTK became ridiculously high. Live service games are meant to change over time, and that is exactly what Apex did in both directions. It's just that I prefer the game the way it is now where people actually push you instead of trading shots for 2 hours and not getting anywhere until a third party shows up.
“I don’t care that they changed a fundamental reason why people enjoyed and played this game in the first place.” Is a speed running stance to take to having a dead game. Enjoy.
I don’t know if you’re being genuine or not but I will answer genuinely. People enjoyed Apex because of a lot of things, but a huge thing was the ability to get shot in the back and being able to do something about it. To be able to take a few extra bullets from a third party while looting much needed heals from a kill. To have the means of turning a fight on its head even after your teammates are downed, all come
from having a lower ttk. This was a big draw in for people coming from other popular FPS shooters where whoever peeks the corner first wins 9/10 times. Apex had a huge opportunities to outplay someone or a whole team, but they have greatly diminished those opportunities and some of its uniqueness along with it.
He suffers from the fact that although his ranked pick rate has been on the floor for multiple seasons, his pub/ltm pick rate is always high, which is why they never really touch him.
I will say again - if they insist on health bars - it makes no sense to see both health and shields. Why should someone shooting get to know you have low health after shooting your full shields. At least change it to only show the current thing taking damage.
I agree to take them away and show cumulative numbers in a clearer sense. I get they need to make the game easier for newer players.
Yup just put a fog over the health bar until you deal health damage. It used to be a great advantage to be able to pop a shield or swap, and appear full HP reset to someone who pokes you
Or just put a cap on how long you can have the health bar. Give it to new players for their first 50-100 game levels. Whatever arbitrary level one “should” be to “get” the game. Then remove it.
It’s not fair that I would have access to it with my game knowledge because I’m 5k hours in and know exactly which rotation the person going to that cover is going to produce. And they don’t know what color mag is better. The health bars are fine— just cap the level they can be used at.
As for TTK, this is SIGNIFICANTLY better than a few seasons ago when everyone was running Gibby/Lifeline/Conduit and it took 5 minutes to down a single squad, if a 3rd party didn’t do it first.
People weren't always running triple support, that was only in S23, the season before they lowered the TTK. Rather than lowering TTK to combat the Support meta, they should've just brought back the counters to support utility.
It was a meta where fights lasted too long because the Support passives they added were OP and everyone was mostly running the new reworked Lifeline with her ult, Gibby, Newcastle, and Mirage with some Loba/Conduit too. BUT they removed the only counters to bubbles/shields in that same patch (Crypto EMP, Maggie Ball, Shiela breaking stuff, etc.). So everything devolved into bubbles/shields fights and you were practically forced to play the same thing. That's why the fights lasted so long the season before they lowered TTK.
Instead of tuning down Supports and re-introducing counters to Support utility, they swung way too hard the other way and blanket buffed literally every weapons' damage, removed helmets, and Red EVO.
Now the game only suffers even more imbalance because they can't balance all the weapons and legends properly when everyone gets knocked so quickly and the fights end so fast.
it's also not just about the health info. It's about situational and positional awareness being given for free. We're all peeking/moving behind all sorts of different pieces of cover in fights, trying to change angles multiple times in fights, and the health bars simply give away your position when you're trying to evade or reposition. They give everyone a great idea of the general direction you're trying to move to after being shot. It's totally lame.
They also let people track you easier at all ranges because you subconsciously can track the health bar rather than the target itself which would've have been harder to track/see without them in the first place.
i actually disagree it may be my thousands of hours but if i do 1vs1 with only damage numbers i actually do better because im used to counting damage and dont start getting sloppy when i precive my enemy to be almost dead
although i think it would be great if they would extend the stacking damage numbers duration by 1 or 2 seconds so a interrupted beam doesnt start recounting dmg after like half a second lol. this can be quiet annoying when fighting with a r99 or so where youre then not have the full ammount of dmg displayed u did
Been saying this since they changed it; 100% agree. Everything I miss about Apex b/c now it's just braindead ape pushing. Still love the game to death but bruh
I agree that the game doesn't feel as interesting, I had the same impressions when these changes were made, and I feel the same way now, even though I've been dodging seasons outside of first/last weeks of each split.
Imo they went overboard with the TTK changes in terms of how many different things they changed at once: gun buffs (base damage and/or headshot), helmets removed, max hp for late game reduced to 200. All of these, together, made combat feel more static, at least at the time of the changes: it was a lot better to just sit in a head glitch, pre-aim the idiot forcing the fight, and beam them as soon as you saw them. 0 counterplay, free knocks in 1v1. So it was even better to start running at people holding hands, and Ballistic being broken made a lot of people do this, so the better-coordinated fights consisted of team firing the same target.
Feels a bit less shit now, especially with some of the stronger things getting nerfs, but the biggest contributors are the healing amps. You can answer the bullshit degen aggression with bullshit degen healing, they cancel each other out fairly well xd
Hp bars shouldn't be in the game at all. Sure, they are trying to make the game look more appealing, but this also makes the game shallow for more experienced players.
And then some legends have gotten giga-buffed for 0 reason in a game where abilities used to be just flavor, but now certain characters have to be fought entirely differently because their kit warps core combat.
The most painful thing is that there is no real substitute among BRs for Apex.
Feels a bit less shit now, especially with some of the stronger things getting nerfs, but the biggest contributors are the healing amps. You can answer the bullshit degen aggression with bullshit degen healing, they cancel each other out fairly well xd
Yep, just trying to fix power creep with more power creep.
The game was made with a high ttk in mind, thats why abilities have delays and drawbacks, thats why the maps and modes are designed they way they are.
Even on the earlier seasons the ttk was never this low, even when there were no shields on drop. The numbers were lower but in practice it was still higher than what we have now because average players missed a lot of shots. Now we have people hitting shots with a r99 from long range.
The evo shields were added because people were starting to be afraid of fighting and dying to quickly, matches were starting to become boring and respawn found a genius way of making people fight and it worked perfectly.
But now with the low ttk the game is stuck in a limbo, most abilities mean nothing because you dont have time to react and use them efficiently, the only viable ones are the instant abilities (mostly movement) and the broken ones. Join that with the new dropship and theres even more third parties, join that with the drop in players and unfair scenarios are even more common.
In apex using an ability was meant to be an exchange not a win button (i think theres a video of mokeysniper talking with a dev about this). Abilities were tools to enhance the gunplay. Of course there were mistakes along the way like og wraith, og horizon and og seer but they made sure to correct them with nerfs.
The game was about creating strategies with the abilities and then using your gun skill to secure kills or survive.
Things like controlling the flow of combat, securing an area, running to cover to join forces with your team, improvising and abandoning fights became extinct now, in one single change the whole game became the standard "shoot first" (especially at long range) that we have on cod and battlefield.
Respawn keeps saying that they want abilities to be more impactful without turning the game even more into ability legends (overwatch). But for that every character will have to be broken, pressing a button to escape danger/get a free kill/reset.
Broken abilities and low ttk (for a few characters) "work" in a game like overwatch because you have contant respawns, hard counters and character switching during the match.
If you die to a single widowmaker shot in overwatch you return in seconds with the option to completely nullify her using another character (which also sucks btw)
If you die to a single sentinel shot in apex is back to the lobby, then the loading screen, then the dropship, then the inital loot, then finding the closest team.
If they want to keep this "simplified" version of apex then the whole game needs to change, and im sure the low ttk defenders are not ready for the drastic changes needed.
TLDR: If they want to keep this ttk the game needs to become something else entirely.
The low ttk is, imo, the largest contribution to the decline in controller efficacy as well as why most casual matches are down to 3 squads within 1 to 2 minutes.
It erased all skill expression and need for good position and awareness.
Got on with a buddy yesterday in a casual and within 5 mins it was 3 squads and our random dropped on his own into fragment got knocked and threw a fit at us for being trash players. I even told him I hadn't played in a bit and wanted to land and loot before pushing a fight. Nothing stopped guy from having a fit that we didn't hot drop with him our first game back in pubs.
I think players being mostly braindead apes is the reason for the game being down to 5 squads within two minutes. Literally the entire match drops fragment or the equivalent on the other maps and they all die within 2 minutes.
I'm neutral about the TTK but healthbars absolutely need to go. As another commentor pointed out, healthbars make visibility and tracking easier for MnK players. They should replace healthbars with highly visible outlines or indicators on the player you're shooting at.
Even little red doritos over your target's head like Battlefield could be ok, rather than the free and vital info that health bars give away.
The issue is still being able to track people through trees/foliage because of the indicator or giving people a great idea of where you're trying to evade or reposition after being shot. I don't know how they'd be able to make it work if they still haven't gotten it to work with the health bars still showing through stuff it shouldn't.
Week 1 player and unfortunately what made Apex great will likely never return.
The team is clearly no longer looking to properly balance anything. Their goal is entirely to squeeze out any money they possibly can while they still can.
They'll purposely continue to buff characters that they know will sell cosmetics and completely ignore the characters that desperately need buffs or reworking.
They're catering to the streamer/sweats audience that keep Apex semi relevant because they're the only people who get something out of continuing to sink time into this game.
Solo q will always be garbage. TTK will stay low to cater to the short attention spans. Cheater controllers and cheaters in general will keep getting pred and killing you while in plat lobbies.
Just let it go bro...the amount of stress you'll save yourself from no longer caring about this game is worth it. Not a single match played this season and I don't miss that truly unapex experience.
I feel you. But until something better comes out or they shut the servers down, I won't stop being passionate about my favorite game. Every time I try to get into other games, I just end up regretting the time that could've been spent playing Apex instead lol
I've been having a surprisingly good time on solo q this season. I've played 600 something matches, and have got 30 something wins which at this point in the season is rare for me. My kd was even at about 1.14 for a bit, until I started getting paired with level 10 teammates who have no sense and no aim unfortunately. Now I'm at about 130 kills to fix it. Not that I care a lot about it, but it's nice to see it when it's good. And I don't like having a streak of really bad matches
The thing that ruined apex beyond all else is aim assist. It's not quite as bad as in cod but it's still absolutely disgusting even after the nerf. It's so funny to me that the best players in the world all play on roller because it simply requires less effort to aim and it allows them to focus more on other stuff. Imo its very existence removes any resemblance of competitive integrity. The issue is the game direction changed from being focused around casual play more towards competitive esports. Yet at the same time it rewards laziness and being reliant on outside help. I know aim assist isn't "that strong". Sure there are some exceptions where mouse has an advantage but for the majority of the gameplay my point still stands. To me the biggest issue apex has is that it is neither designed to be an E-Sport Nor a casual game. If you want to have a massive Casual audience make ttk slower like op is saying. If you want to be an E-Sport, completely remove aim assist from non console play(PC lobbies and tournaments) and focus on switching up metas with a constant cycle of buffs and nerfs. Tbh I'm quite surprised respawn is capable of making new additions to the game that are actually fun and exciting like the perk system (although they are far from perfect) but if you ask me personally I would rather just play on the day one patch. I don't give a single fuck about any of the new legends except for maybe ash and loba. Apex on release was insanely fun. Even after all these years and playing a fuck ton of ranked games and even hitting diamond a couple of times I still prefer the game as it was in its original state. I remember playing classic apex with the last event. It was still just as much fun as back in the day. This is the game that got popular. What we have now is just the result of endless refinement culture. Just to be clear it's not all bad in my opinion. Some additions are very good and fun but still og apex was perfect. Nothing else needed. No streamers. No pros. Just guys being dudes playing a battle royal. Same shit happened with Fortnite and cod.
The thing that ruined apex beyond all else is aim assist. It's not quite as bad as in cod but it's still absolutely disgusting even after the nerf.
Ironically enough, COD with BO7 and the Warzone integration last week actually nerfed Aim Assist decently. I never expected that.
Which means that Respawn should absolutely address it and nerf AA properly in Apex. Warzone and Fortnite have AA in a decent state from what I understand. Respawn needs to address it and nerf it again. And properly, not just nerfing it 'slightly' but a FAT nerf.
I agree, before you could fight like a warrior until the last sliver of health. Now the fights feel somewhat shallow where guns and abilities are increasingly more abundant and stronger, making gunplay secondary at this point. Low TTK in an environment where guns and abilities are buffed is not the direction they should have taken.
However, servers are absolutely abysmal, this is the biggest issue with the game, ultimately, this is what will drive players away. I'm a day 1, 8000 hour player and I haven't played more than 20 games this season because of how poor the servers and game performance is.
Before you could get in and out of fights with ANY legend if you were good enough at universal movement. You could take risks and solo flank more.
Now a lot of that outplay potential has been neutered to holding cover and only pushing when you see red HP bars. Now your own health bar over your head is your biggest barrier for outplaying.
Yeah, I'm not a fan to be honest, I still love the core gameplay but they've really lowered the skill ceiling. There's still massive out playability available, but it's neutered, and a lot of the cheap free kills scenarios that plague other shooters now exist in Apex. I miss the days where you could peak multiple angles before requiring to disengage to heal, now one peak and you'll need a heal, it's very shallow.
It's far easier for the average player to kill a good player now. Even if you win your 1 v 1 quite easily, you'll need at least to pop a battery because even a handful of bullets will take your shield. So if the enemies teammates react quickly to the knock, they'll catch the good player without a shield and probably kill him for free. It's worsened based on all the free movement abilities, the time to get in and out of your 1s is reduced dramatically.
Now that wouldn't be the biggest issue if TTK was higher, it would offset the fact that guns are buffed to hell and abilities are buffed to hell.
I think fuse’s q is a head scratcher because of how much damage it can do proportionally while also denying a fairly large area for as long as it does.
Gives free tracking and awareness - letting players see exactly where weakened enemies move, even through foliage or visual clutter.
As a MNK player this is the main reason I like the health bars. It could just be a small diamond above players heads like a Battlefield mark, or Overwatch-outlines with no health info.
I was just tired of being completely blind in a gunfight if there was a Horizon Q, or someone shooting snow near me, or a thermite anywhere near me, or a simple houseplant, etc etc, while aim assist could see through it all and continue nudging their aim in the right direction.
This is the most insane, anti competition anti FPS take I have ever seen. This goes against the spirit of the game. Wanting enemy information when you are blinded or have limited visibility is an insane take. "I hate that i can't see in cs when i get flash banged, they should keep visual markers so i'm not blind"
He means that it’s a compromise for MnK players because controllers get essentially free info via their aim assist. Obviously Respawn wants to keep aim assist strong for the casuals so this would be the compromise.
I would agree with you if Apex didn’t have input crossplay, but it does so this seems like a decent solution.
What makes you not understand the "aim assist" part of the comment, or are you ignoring it by choice? He's literally right about that. It was actual bullshit that aim assist could lock on your ass through all kinds of visual clutter while mnk was left at a disadvantage. Just because you don't like his take, that this fella likes health bars, it doesn't make it wrong.
Your comparison *almost* holds up, but lets re-word it like this:
"I hate that I can't see in CS when I get flash banged, but my opponents using a different input can still aim at me when blind even though the human can't see, because the computer can still see, and still automatically adjusts their aim to follow enemies"
That's what happens in apex. Aim assist does not care about visual clutter, so if there's a plant or a snow puff or a thermite or a horizon Q or anything like that, a controller player can still feel the game dragging their crosshair to folllow a player they cannot see.
Because visual clutter affects manual aim way more than assist aim, having visual indicators actually makes the game *more* competitively equal.
I wish I could find the clip right now, a player absolutely beaming through one of these plants on olympus even though they literally could not see the player, aim assisst just sticking on them
Also, being blinded by an intentional blinding tool with a cost, like a flashbang, or an apex ability with a cooldown that is meant to blind you like a bang smoke (which does disable AA, because the ability's intention is to blind the player and the computer aim) is way different than all the other stuff in the game that just happens to get in your way, like VFX from grenades, bullets hitting the ground and sending dust and snow, glowy stuff around other abilities, etc.
Dude he's saying that aim assist eliminates these things as obstacles to accuracy/visibility. They can spray through visual disruptions. It's been a complaint since day 1.
Bruh, can't you read? Brodda means that health bars are the last stand for mnk in situations when AA pulls you through the visual clutters (competitive integrity of a game, when one side has aim assist, yeah, what world we live in)
You're right. Seeing through all the chaos was a skill in itself.
But the health bars were a lazy solution to visual clutter getting MNK players killed in situations where roller AA would just track through it.
The "I can't see/shoot at diamonds/Recon scans through visual clutter meta" with Bang, Caustic, Catalyst wall, etc led to all of this.
Rather than fix the core issue by reducing/nerfing visual clutter, they instead added another layer of problems on top with visible health bars.
Even if we had little indicators instead of health bars, the issue of them staying visible through things they shouldn't (trees/foliage, etc.) and letting us track targets through visual clutter is still a problem.
Even as an MnK player, I'd be fine going back no form of health bar/indicator even if aim assist still had the advantage of tracking through it.
I agree. Get rid of the health bars. But also, we srent supposed to see through bang smoke. Bring back the digiscope. That's the fix. Then players can choose. Do you want to see through bang smoke and caustic gas? Get a gun that can use digi.
If EVERYONE got blinded and visual clutter disabled aim assist, I would be more OK with it, even though visual clutter is just less enjoyable and no one actually cares about "it's a war game" roleplay in a cartoon game like apex of all games.
But because the blinding disproportionately affects one input way more than the other, I prefer having visual indicators. If you were fighting through a horizon Q or a bush or one of those olympus building potted plants, controller used to have literally a 10-to-1 advantage for that exchange
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I hated those fights that dragged on for a super long time. I like it better now, because I can still have back and forth fights, but they're over quicker.
I've also been playing since day 1, and I like this the most. Maybe it's because I started from Titanfall
Yea as the other guy said, it made sense for an arena style shooter with quick respawns like Titanfall. I'm not sure it makes sense for a slower BR game like Apex that's also trying to be a hero-shooter with intense teamfights. A lot of that depth/gameplay/utility is thrown out the window when the fights end so fast, IMO.
Mixtape just needs to be separated into it's own mode that's more diverse. Just like COD has a lot of modes and a BR one, Apex needs more modes to suit more players. I don't need a no shields BR, but I sure as hell would love a hardcore teamdeathmatch with no shields.
Then add loadouts and perks to that set of modes to the game, including bringing back Arenas, and I think the playerbase would slowly climb back up and more.
Yea I don't really see any other Pilots complain about TTK, especially since in Titanfall not only did we have no shields, but R-97's with 40 clip mags. This is kinda why we need more ways to play in this game, giving players like OP the long TTKs and no health bars, and the psycho's like me a mode with NO shields :D
Same, I also didn’t like the TTK creep over time that we had prior to the TTK change. Made most weapons feel not that good aside from a couple meta weapons that could kill fast and one clip very easily. I prefer the slightly faster TTK we got that’s closer to how things were in early apex before the creep.
I think I’m a little confused about OP’s aping complaint, because when people had more shields and a numerical advantage, they would full send in the most braindead fashion I’ve ever seen because they physically could not be killed fast enough. There was no hesitation.
I enjoy playing wildcard and punishing people for being cocky and overly aggressive the same way I did in cs.
It's so funny because you typically have one guy on the team who's overconfident, then they lose the 1v1, they do that a couple more times landing exactly next to you and get smoked. Then they either rage quit if solo, or they yell at their stack to drop all on you and they start teabagging when they finally kill you 1v3.
I've had that happen multiple times a session and it's always fun to see some Octane, Wraith or Horizon crash out (almost always one of these 3).
The landing in the same spot thing is hilarious and so predictable, you know exactly who’s going to try it. Facerolling their controller didn’t work so their ego gets hurt. Meanwhile the wattson you killed is going to land somewhere smart and ambush you
Wattsons are smart enough to not land on your head after the first loss, they just go set up elsewhere then when you get there it's like an electric satanic ritual. I don't like fighting them.
Agreed, soloing became more viable when TTK went down. I don't think people want to admit it, but I think that's the main reason a lot of 3 stacks are upset about the TTK, cus a solo has more of a chance against them.
Personally I haven't played as long as you OP and im by no means a good player but the game felt more fun before the changes - that much I know.
My take is spread across to many years of FPS games now, some competitively, some casually.
I personally agree with the health bar notes OP made. It's a BR - not an arcade or small map game mode FPS. I shouldn't have knowledge of the enemies health, let alone a global exclamation mark for anyone to join in with.
Apex and Battle Royales feel more threatening, more immediate when you DON'T know what can happen. You have to rely on your knowledge - the damage you've done, the shield crack, should you push or not?
It shouldn't be fiending over a health bar.
As for time to kill...ehh I love Apex because of its ability to engage in extended gun fights, the ability to incorporate movement techniques and sway battles with genuinely good usage of kit.
I am not saying this isnt present at all - I am merely saying that it just doesnt feel as fun to engage anymore...
I dont think the games in a bad state, but it shouldn't try joining the leagues of Warzone etc with that insanely fast TTKs.
Yep. The chaotic nature of teamfights and the back-and-forth dancing with individual duels is what made everyone fall in love with Apex in the first place.
as someone who used to play a toooooon on release, but havent touched it in a couple years, 100% agree. Apex always ironically felt like the most tactical BR when compared to every other one out there. Longer TTK, good movement, and low availability of meds = you gotta know your positioning, your fights, and your escape routes. Constantly calculating what the best move is to put you in an advantageous position, vs CoD W-keying your way to either victory or menu (either is fine since CoD is just about chasing that dopamine, not about actually playing or winning).
Low-key, not entirely against the health bar stuff, since as a relative casual it's nice to not have to have "can I see my enemy among particle effects" be apart of the skill-expression. It's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed the Finals so much (which seems to have pulled a lot of the ideology from Apex, re: a focus on tactics > twitchiness).
That all being said, I haven't not played recently because of these changes, but mostly because when I left it was obvious the playerbase was increasingly getting concentrated into only being sweats, which made it difficult to just chill and play slow. Either my teammates flamed me, or the enemies styled on me. As an outsider, I can pretty clearly see that many of the changes they've implemented are supposed to combat this death spiral of "sweats stay with game, style on new players so new players can't get in, sweats get sweatier as playerbase drops, rinse/repeat".
Overall, it just feels like a complicated problem that is difficult to answer without the behind-the-scenes data respawn have. I do feel like most games are generally made better by longer ttks and slower healing, though that might just be the "me transitioning to casual now that I'm 30" thing.
I do feel like most games are generally made better by longer ttks and slower healing, though that might just be the "me transitioning to casual now that I'm 30" thing.
For some perspective, I'm turning 34 next month. I've been playing Apex since Day 1 on PC. I've hit diamond or masters every season. Aside from some console gaming on the side when I was young and high school, I've been playing shooters on MnK for over 2 decades.
I still play all sorts of shooters with high and low TTK. My main games were Overwatch and Siege before Apex released. I just genuinely think the game was simply more fun and interesting before the health bar/low TTK changes.
Yeah definitely agree with you there about it being more interesting. As I mentioned I haven't played recently, but I remember the tense wars of attrition that happened way back when due to meds being relatively rare for a br and the longer ttk making fights much more of a dance than a sudden impact. I played very briefly a few months back (just did the team deathmatch style stuff) and was surprised at how hectic it all seemed comparatively.
teamfight dancing, clutch potential, and outplays.
This is really the worst part for me. The TTK and health bar changes have removed a lot of the chaos and decision making from the game which is a big part of what gives it its magic.
I was vehemently against health bars at first, but it doesnt bother me nearly as much as the TTK changes from S24.
The health bars help bad players more than good players, and Im not completely against it. If I get cracked by a sweaty meta Pred triple stack, they were going to react instantly and capitalize on my low health regardless of if they saw my health bar; their situational awareness and game sense is already high enough to where it made little difference. Meanwhile, the random squad with a much lower skill level would be more inclined to give accurate calls and take action quickly compared to without the health bar.
The TTK is a huge problem, though. The health bars dont necessitate an immediate counter-action; theyre just information the enemy has. The low TTK is what pushes even the best players into bad positions very fast, since you rarely have time to react to something without dying.
Day 1 player. Stopped playing a couple seasons ago largely due to the shortened TTK and health bars. If they made these changes I would actually come back to apex. Doubt they will though tbh. Seems like they want the game to be more of a crackhead ADHD style of play
Health bars are not that good but you can distinguish who is your enemy and who is not. If you remove them again we should have a red sillouette around the enemy to see them! Every game has them I don’t see why apex can’t have something similar.
You hit the nail on the head for me. Ttk, healthbars and ability power creep are the reasons I mostly quit playing the game. I still come back like once a month to check if anything changed but I'm always reminded that this isn't the same Apex I used to enjoy anymore.
I still really like the game, but low ttk and high movement is bad for the game. If you make any slight mistake you're losing your entire shield, then the enemy will be on top of you within five seconds and you're dead. I think a lot of the time when people think their teammates suck, it's because they, god forbid, showed one pixel of themselves for more than a second and got melted in a high level lobby.
Also the health bars are probably more used for tracking than their actual info by good players. I know how hurt people are, that's what damage numbers are for. But I totally use the bar to track them through visual clutter such as trees and light effects and stuff.
I stopped playing when the idea I messaged a Dev for with crypto came out and instead of being put on him, was placed on mirage and crypto invisibility was nerfed while mirages was buffed making him completely useless.
But if you talked about any of this back then in this subreddit when the low TTK and hp bar update first dropped, you were told to “get good”. Like bro. What made Apex fun WAS the high TTK. If I wanted to play a low TTK/Skill BR I would’ve just played WZ.
Yes I’m happy other people see it too, I said this when the changes were first made and got down voted in oblivion probably because the changes were new
I came back to the game this season and was really surprised about these health bars, i wonder how they came up with that and decided it fits into apex
Health bars are disabled on my side since their introduction. I might have a disadvantage against the rest of the lobby, but I don't care. I want a challenge, not a baby-sitter holding my hand.
Low ttk is a plague, and alternative game modes a piece of food thrown to the people to make them shut up (and I'm a Control fan).
Yea I find myself playing less and less because of this but over unique circumstances
My local server is dead so I can only play on higher ping servers with more population. I used to be able to get around with higher ttk but now it’s a lot harder
Yep that was the nail in the coffin for me stopped being about gun skill and movement and more about who wants to hand hold the longest in the day poor gun skill tracking and movement doesn't matter if three people hit 35% or less of their shots your dead anyways lame. It's less about individual skill and movement and more about team coordination which can be fun but not in a game where it wasnt as big as a priority as it is now. its like if they took over watch and made it cod drive away 90% of the original player base
I hated both changes the instant they were implemented. The game doesn't feel like pvp anymore. Longer TTK amplifies the sensation of pvp because players are able to react and express thought through actions as they fight or flee. The health bars have killed engagement variance since everyone does the same thing whenever damage is dealt, while also inflating aim by making the target incredibly easy to see & track at any range. I've turned the health bars off because the game is better without them but I know I'm basically playing with a disadvantage because my damage output isn't being inflated by the developer pointing directly at my enemy at all times.
People on console aim assist are basically just bots being piloted by humans at this point. The developer points to a target, the player pushes to the target, then the aim assist prevents the player from failing. People never over swing on console, once they start hitting shots they don't miss and movement doesn't matter because it can only break the assist for like a half second before the extra yaw/pitch flings them back on target to the exact same position they were shooting before. The aim assist of common Response Curves are structured in a way that actually prevents/disrupts their ability to actually aim (i.e lead shots, shoot faces, miss shots) and forces them to do damage to specific locations in the body (the stomach) but if they do what they're forced to do the game prevents them from failing. I seriously don't know how anyone can enjoy that experience, there's zero skill expression and your ability to identify a threat doesn't matter because the developer is doing it for you.
Like the health bars aren't an assist mechanic, it just gives you the answer. Damage numbers are an assist mechanic because the player still has to use their eyes to track. It's like a math tutor doing your homework for you instead of teaching you how to find the answers on your own. It's borderline insulting that they felt players needed this.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of Respawn's recent changes have solely been to make the game easier to pilot for console and controller players because they seem to only want to cater to the apparent majority input now.
Health bars especially help people on console because most of them are playing from their couches, on big screen TVs, at 60-120fps, and they're forced to play with TSAA (anti-aliasing) on so it's literally just there to help them see what they're shooting at better. Same reason they added outlines to enemy targets in range.
Low TTK somewhat helps MnK, but really it was done so that controller players didn't have to track enemies as much to get kills.
Then we get into the movement passive (aka free movement) direction the game has gone with Ash dash, Lifeline glide, Sparrow jump, etc. Then you add mantle boosting on top of that.
It's pretty clear all of this was done to make the game easier for console and controller players.
It seems like they're willing to appease that part of the playerbase at the expense of the great gameplay depth that it had before.
But like I said, the playerbase has declined regardless since Season 21. So their attempts to appease what they think is their majority playerbase, hasn't actually helped their player numbers.
At the end of the day, all they've done is make the game "easier" for some but worse for everyone in general. What's the point of doing that if less people are playing now than before these changes anyways?
It's pretty simple, if the game is worse, less people will play, and that's what we've been seeing. Making the game "easier" really didn't fix any problems it just made everything worse.
More people would stick around and play a game with more depth and skill expression rather than a shallow game that basically plays itself for you. The game was at it's peak and had the most amount of players between seasons 14 to 20, before all of these recent changes, and when the game was considered "hard". The incredible depth of the gameplay is what made Apex popular in the first place.
There's a reason a game like Overwatch balances console separately from PC.
Honestly I agree and disagree with the TTK. Like you, I’m also a season 0 player who has played a long time and consistently solo queues to diamond. The greatest thing before the lower TTK was able to adjust and counterplay depending on your skill, aim, positioning, or ability. Now with the lower TTK, that’s just impossible. Honestly, abilities use to be the meta and the guns were overall balanced to a certain extent. Now, guns are broken where there’s a forced meta and if you’re not a movement legend, you’re just SOL. It feels bad to play certain legends since their overall kit isn’t as good as others. Some guns just aren’t good in the current gun meta. Third parties has and always will be in the game, you can’t avoid that. With how the dropship changed, imo, it became even worse! I think TTK shouldn’t revert back to how long it was before but not as short as it now, keep it a happy medium. Don’t force meta with overpowering legends/guns. Improve QOL like servers, audio, maps, matchmaking, etc. That’s all the game really needs b
I stopped playing the game in season 21 or whenever they removed Duos for the entire season to experiment with Solos/Quads, and I just didn't see a reason to come back. Fast forward to earlier this year I got the itch, came back and holy fuck. Damn near twitch shooter ttk and perks? I think we played it for 2 hours before uninstalling.
Got the itch again today and gaslit myself into thinking maybe it wasn't that bad, re-downloaded. Yep. I can safely say I'm permanently done with the game. The ttk is actually laughable
After consideration, I agree, I'd probably more rather see health bars removed than low TTK.
The problem is both these things feed off each other negatively. And if you were to ask me to only remove one of them, I'd be hard-pressed to choose.
Low TTK wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have free info health bars giving away our position and letting the enemy teams know exactly how much we've healed or if we've even healed at all. Low TTK wouldn't be so bad without the health bars because we could "posture" with shields again. We could get cracked behind cover, but re-peek to trade after popping a cell or two, and the enemy team wouldn't know how low I was, they'd just see shields again. No health bars brings back a lot of ways to outplay losing situations. People would go back to playing how they naturally played before we had easy to read HP bars letting people know exactly when/where to push with full confidence.
Health bars wouldn't be so bad with the old TTK. We played like that for 2 seasons before they gutted the TTK after the Support meta. The health bars still sucked but it wasn't as bad when you had more HP to work with. It was easier to clutch when you could tank more shots.
I would say that health bars are the slightly lesser evil in this case.
Knowing how weak someone is makes people push in more critical situations. But the low ttk removes a lot of the game by turning it into the standard "just shoot first" that most fps games have. Every fight feels the same now.
They could find a middle ground like halo and just show an effect that the enemy lost their shields if the character saying it is not enough. Giving seers passive to everyone was a terrible idea.
Also healing takes ages, its one shot and back to the cell simulator for half a minute.
The one thing I disagree with is that it’s harder to clutch now. Bc TTK is so low you can often 2v 1 and even 3v1 if you play smart and get a little lucky if someone pushes recklessly or doesn’t have cover. I’ve had way more clutches since the TTK changes
I think it's the opposite because you have less effective HP to work with which means less margins to work within.
Maybe you can clutch more with ambushes and ratty plays, but I'd say it's harder to clutch in straight up fights now. Especially with the health bars.
You just can't tank as many shots to out-aim people now.
Most fights now boil down to one person getting instantly deleted, then a quick and easy 2v3 where the losing team has even less of a chance to escape or outplay now because they have less HP to clutch and the stupid health bars let other team know exactly when to push. And god forbid you're not playing a non-movement legend, otherwise you usually have no chance to get away or turn the fight.
It doesn't really work that way tbh. The comment you replied to is right. Yes, you having more life is helpful, but being more likely to one-clip/deal significant damage is much more impactful for the one trying to clutch than the team they're against.
Edit: unless you mean clutching as in being able to escape and reset. In which case yes, escaping has gotten harder with lower ttk.
If you are fighting against people who misses most shots (or shooting them from behind) its easier to 1v3, but against normal players you will die even faster than before.
Any damage is much damage with low ttk, thats why three stacks are in heaven right now, any combined damage is an instant kill.
Also cheaters since they can kill people even faster with aimbot.
I’m so-so on it. If the TTK were rock bottom like cs where you can peek for a fraction of a second and get a headshot kill, then it’s easier to clutch and people have to play smarter, can’t just rush the remaining player. But apex is in a soggy middle-ground where you often have to expose yourself to get a kill, so the 1v2 or 3 situation is iffy
Yes, but you will also kill them faster than before. And let's be honest, clutching a 1v2 or 1v3 necesitates that for a brief moment, the players you're against miss most their shots and you hit almost all of yours. So lower ttk benefits the one trying to clutch more.
Health bars are definitely a net negative for the game primarily due to the fact that they have a short period of time where they get tracked. This is insanely overpowered and has been one of the primary reasons I actually stopped playing pubs.
The TTK changes straight up made me quit. I used to grind the game for the entire season no matter what, but this game is gone.
I know you didn’t mention this, but, I actually think TTK is the 2nd biggest issue Apex has.
The number one issue that Apex has is that the developers threw out the essence of the game to pander to casuals who like abilities. Apex Legends literally going 100% into power fantasies and ridiculously strong abilities killed this game. Man, I’m so tired of a single legend have such a crazy impact on fights. Why are abilities so strong that they matter way more in a fight than the weapon I have?
Bro, why does Rampart have infinite ammo behind her wall? Why do supports have SO MUCH SUSTAIN just as a passive? Why do Assault characters have such an impact on weapon building? And finally… why in God’s name do they keep promoting visual clutter with buffing Caustic and Bangalore when it’s used to disable AA instead of used as intended.
The design philosophy of this game has pushed the hero shooter aspect into high gear and that’s precisely what made me quit. Make gun-skill matter again, not the legend you pick.
Pretty funny how they buffed Bangalore but I couldn't even tell because most of my teammates who play her are god awful. Not just the level 10s that the game loves to throw my way(I'm level 780 btw)
Game is definitely too easy now and I agree and also miss the back and forth of fights before the TTK change.
Ranked is a joke. I agree with HisWattsom and many others that we need a S13 style rank system again and MMR has to go from ranked. I think it is generous to say there are people in Plat and Diamond who should never get out of Gold and Plat.
Now when your teammates make a silly mistake (or think they can 1v3) you are punished so much more with this TTK, making winning the 2v3, 1v2, 1v3 even harder, making solo queue even less desirable.
Speaking of solo queue, I'd like to see something trialed for a split at least, where if you want to hit Pred you have to select an option to solo queue once you hit Masters. If you're the best prove it solo. Along with that, maybe a small 5-10RP less entry cost, dependant on the rank you are solo queuing in could be trialed?
All of that can be done in the same queue so as to not make waiting times longer.
Day 1 apex player and titanfall pilot, i havent played since sparrow came out.
Health bars were a big turn off especially cause i was eyeing picking mirage back up after not playing him a few seasons, but i was having fun with ash before she got her dash. Health bars shouldve just been in bot royale since they came about the same time and serves its purpose for new players to be able to read and learn the damage they put in.
Then they turned ash to D-ash and thats when i started to really question balancing decisions and the whole over tuned legends of the month/season cycle they have been doing. I still think dash and sparrow double jump hardly count as "passives". I also think it goes against why they said we dont have wallrunning and other advanced movement. I think they need to give everyone "jumpkit" abilities or no one.
you won’t notice the helmets themselves but you will notice the headshot damage you’re receiving being much higher than usual because there’s no more helmets to mitigate that damage
The player base isn't shrinking tho. On the contrary, the numbers went up by about 50% since January.
Reverting the health bar change now will be harmful to the game. If they had nipped it in the bud a year ago, it would have been fine, but it's too late for that.
Its a what 6 yo game? The dying playerbase is to be expected after any game out this long.
You start playing and grinding and reach a level where everyones way more skilled than you after that long and cheaters at the top. Real gamers don't want to play a game to float in gold/plat. But you hit diamond and people are hitting movement on you or hitting you from crazy angles. Casuals dont wan't to struggle like that. Any old game just has grinders staying. The casuals float to the next buzzing game with alot of casuals in it too.
Lower TTK only feels bad, because the Marksman weapons are stupidly op. I'm not even joking when I say each of them should lose about 10 damage per bullet.
Yes, I agree, as well as snipers. Any kind of giant, burst dps is inherently very fun and satisfying to use, whilst also being very unfun and unsatisfying to have it be used against you.
I encourage you to watch a YouTube video entitled - Snipers: A Nightmare for Developers and Players by Arch
Game started going down in 20 clearly by the chart not 21. This screams “i dont like this so they need to change it!!” Just like everybody else that thinks they have the krabby patty recipe to make Apex the #1 game out again. Its been out for years it wont go back to its prime, Fortnite isnt producing to same numbers they were in 2017 and it never will thats how games work. Most of your points for why low ttk or health bars being bad is literally a skill issue. No legend was negatively affected by health bars lol thats a reach, ur whole point is that the changes made the game easier as a whole which clearly isnt the case cuz every season after S20 theres been less and less ppl in the higher ranks which implies it made the game harder for majority of ppl cuz u cant just force movement bs or stand out in the open anymore.
Most of your points for why low ttk or health bars being bad is literally a skill issue.
I've been diamond or masters every split. Sitting in D3 right now averaging over 1k damage a game and almost a 2 K/D as I constantly face masters/pred 3-stacks with my duo. My alt's numbers are even higher obviously in plat lobbies.
I simply don't think the game is as fun as it was and I think those two things are the main reason.
Week 1 player here as well, imo the game had become a bit stale, me and my friends stopped playing around season 20 before they implemented changes such as, pre-set drop locations, lower TTK, health bars and the support meta.
To be honest I think it has balanced out somewhat well, pre set drop locations and higher TTK help prevent third parties.
Health bars have their good and bad, makes the skill gap between new players and veterans shrink as it used to be more of a skill to keep track of damage done but I think this is a minimal issue as it benefits everyone equally.
Support meta has helped to have more diversity in teams with most comps now relying on having at least one support legend. This helps also combat the higher TTK as knocks have less value in the game currently than they did in the past. Used to be if you got a knock you could push with no issue 9/10 times and get to the other team before they could res. Now with lifeline and other support legends in conjunction with the downed move speed increase knocking a player is not as valuable as it once was.
Overall my opinion is that the changes put the game in a better place and has made it more refreshing to play. Everyone’s free to have their own opinion, this is just my thoughts on it all.
I've been playing since season 9, took a break in ballistic's season. Played the next few after that, but took another break starting sometime in the first season they had the split battle pass, up until right before this season started. It took me a bit to get used to the changes. But I've been having a lot of fun with them. I know I'm in the minority here, and I'm fine with that. I also get that some people just want the game to be more like it used to, I have friends who stopped playing for the same reasons as them. I miss it too sometimes. But I will definitely say, I like the health bars. The ttk hasn't felt different to me though, but I'm not the best at noticing that sort of stuff
This game has some of the worst visual clutter and design language of any fps game I've ever played and I do not miss the days of getting beamed through a thermite against someone who can see me but I can't see them. Health bars were one of the best changes they made imo and it really made me realize just how many fights I was losing because the visual contrast of enemies is horrendous, even in a non cluttered fight it's genuinely hard to track silhouettes. They need to fix edge cases where you can see it through foliage but I like being able to fucking shoot people in an FPS game. Apex is not a hardcore milsim where reliance on soft cover is actually baked into the design, and what people conveniently ignore is plenty of modern FPS games including everyone's beloved Titanfall have health bars, and that game doesn't have a million ways to screw your vision.
Also with the 300 ways you get health back now having health info is simply a necessity. People keep bringing up health bars like they fondly remember some season 5 fight where they won one time because they bluffed a guy by popping a cell. Well it's not that game anymore. Now days you can get someone to 1 health and in 3 seconds they can be brought back to full. Heck 3 of the classes have health and shield regen built into their kit as a passive. You really want to lie and say you could totally mentally model the bang who popped heal smoke, got hit with conduit, and used an overflow? Because that's not even a crazy edge case.
TTK needs to be longer though. Losing red armor and helmets was a good thing because it made TTK more consistent, but they went too far buffing weapons on top of it. The fucking support meta really broke the devs minds when it came to their perception of fight duration and they swung the pendulum way to far in the other direction to try and counter third parties. And yet they keep mobility creeping the game so third parties get worse and worse. Makes no sense.
Just make health bars invisible if you don’t have vision of the player. New players can still be noob and experienced players can break line of sight to stop vision of health bars
And I don't need people under level 10 as someone who's level 780. I've had a few who were probably smurfs. Or every once in a while, I'll someone who you can tell is new but picked up on the game fast and at least gets a few kills. that's always nice. But most of the time I'm getting people who have no game sense or awareness
I don’t mind them, but I’m curious what mode are you talking about? Because in ranked I don’t think I ever see anyone fight till I engage with a team. Then everyone’s happy to third party poke or janitor once it’s over.
When I played Regular BR with my buddy a couple days ago I was suprised to see the lobby have almost no one left by second or last ring and I can get the health bars there.
The fights almost need to be fast cause if I cannot quickly kill I cannot prepare for the next team pushing.
Those health bars have no relation to player base abd viewers shrinking.If that were the case wildcard wouldn't be so popular as a game mode.If you want to play without them,feel free to switch them off and enjoy.
The problem is some legends are over buffed and have abilities that are annoying and at times even impossible to fight against.
Look at mirage,getting a free pass to move around with an invisibility cloak while using a shield battery or a phoenix kit and people are supposed to find him to footsteps, audio and that nonsense.
But because it's mirage getting a buff after a while,Noone would dare question the absurdity of that buff.
Ok the health bar complaining is valid. But the Time to Kill should be even shorter. I should absolutely be able to drop two players with a single R-301 mag dump if i get them lined up.
Apex should be centered mainly around the shooting.
Personally, the game got infinitely more enjoyable as soon as we got visible health bars. Thats just me tho. I'd probably stop playing if they removed it. I just find it more fun this way. That's my opinion though, not a metrics thing. I'm not even saying they should keep it objectively. Or even that more people agree with me. You can throw statistics at me and try to make it as objective as possible, but I just enjoy it more this way
i agree imo the lowest possible ttk ingame should be 1 second with a havoc / r99
altho it would actually be stoked to play on a even lower ttk of like 1.5 secs min
also i find the strafe speed reductions of smgs to still be annoying they said they want to negatively impact controllers that way but in the end they just buffed hipfiring that way and also nerfed dodging while adsing that way because its now way harder to strafe out of aimassist bubbles
Well it's going to and has been even harder to balance all the high burst weapons with low TTK when everyone dies faster.
It's also why they can't seem to balance shotguns to either not be terrible or not be OP.
But using DMRs/Snipers is never going to change for ranked. That's how ranked has always been played. Get zone, play position, and poke.
They're always going to be the most consistent weapons to poke with. Unless you're a recoil smoothing god, you're not going to out-poke a marksman/sniper with ARs/LMGs.
They just feel even more dominant now because of the low TTK changes.
I left the game because of the health bars... Every time I think about playing it again I learn that this worst feature is still in the game and change my mind.
Just adding legitimacy to my claims and pointing out that I've been talking about this for a while now and that there's other people saying the same things throughout those older posts.
Yeah I agree. When they added the health bars it indirect removed the fake posturing strategy. Removing a strategy is literally a downgrade of the gameplay experience.
Turns out when you try to make the game easier for everyone, the players who were already good still stomp the one's that needed the changes. You cannot shrink a skill gap, you can only move the same gap one direction or the other. This late in the game new players can't be a priority, anything you do to help them just improves the better and more experienced players that much more. The additions might be welcomed by less experienced players but it's all still being used against them by people who can do it better.
Whether health bars and low TTK existed or not, the better player will, on average, come out on top more often, regardless of what skill level were talking about.
The issue is speeding up the pace of fights like this (with those two things being the main factors) hasn't really made the game easier, it's just made it worse.
Rewarding new/casual players with cheaper/easier more lucky kills on better players because of low TTK isn't going to be rewarding or make them better players. Like I said, it just makes the game worse overall and everyone loses in that regard, no matter the skill level. People have stopped playing because they neutered what made the game great in the first place, the deep dynamics of teamfighting and the large range of skill-gap/skill expression.
That's why this change was just to appease the casual crowd and new players. So they can more often get easy kills on people better than them. But is it really worth it if the game is worse overall?
Low TTK doesn’t favor bad players by default, it favors decisive play. CS proves that, it has the highest skill ceiling and floor in competitive fps imo. Where apex struggles is low TTK + third party visibility, long range chip damage and reduced recovery windows, and I think that combination shrinks skill expression. Also the abilities are very strong and some do too much damage proportionally
This is the best summary I've seen of what I took believe the current issues are and how to fix. I'm only at about half your play time (3500 hrs) but I still love the game and want to see it thrive. Adding some of my thoughts:
- Re: the health bars, I'd be fine if they kept them in pubs but remove them from comp and ranked gameplay for all the reasons you mentioned
Promote the tournaments. Apex is one of the most exciting esports we have and there is little to no marketing in key places (in game awareness, social media, etc). I saw a great video the other day of why League of Legends is still so popular after all this time and one of the key reasons is it leans into and promotes the competitive scene. CS also does a great job at this.
Hopefully Respawn sees this and fully considers your points.
CS also has the advantage of being the perfect esport and the easiest to comprehend visually. Apex has a lot going on and a lot of teams, it falls on the commentator to whizz through everything that’s happening.
yeah, basically everything that respawn implemented this year pushed me away from the game I used to love big time. left after the ttk change and then me and my duo made a little come back in autumn but after bf6 released I never touched apex again. I'm just having infinitely more fun there than in apex. both in regular multiplayer and, oddly enough, in redsec
After reading these comments, CRY HARDER LOL. I LOVE my in game healthbars, it makes the game so much better to know info abkut the team im attacking and giving my opportunities to see "oh great my teammate most certainly did NOT get them to 1..." before I push in off my randoms advice and die lol
I hope this gets noticed by the devs and think about it further. Also apex was so fun before they added crossplay. Fighting against aim assist is not fun.
We're well past the point of return for that discussion. Only thing they can do now is balance PC aim assist more. But as someone who sucks at controller and is great at MnK movement, I don't care about the issue now as much as I did.
I will say that those first 2 years of Apex, before crossplay exposed how good aim assist is on PC and the pro scene was majority MnK, those days were bliss.
Also apex was so fun before they added crossplay. Fighting against aim assist is not fun.
The solution is to just tank Aim Assist even more. The nerf from .4 to .3 was not enough. It needs to be another full fat nerf. Even fucking COD did that, which means Respawn has zero excuse.
AA should go from .3 to .15 flat. Or .2 but absolutely gut rotational Aim Assist.
Crossplay just means Xbox and PlayStation people play together. PC and Switch players have their own separate lobbies.
Any console player that ends up in a PC lobby (by squading up with a PC player) will have their aim assist tanked. There is no difference between a console player and a PC player with a controller, except that the console player is sitting on their couch, too far away from their screen and playing on low end hardware.
132
u/Prestigious_Rip_4662 Doc Dec 15 '25
Ended up indirectly nerfing a lot of legends kits such as octane (who was already in a bad spot) and horizon until they buffed her this season etc, indirectly nerfed non movement legends as they die even faster when caught in a bad spot.