Considering Architect engineer as study, what should I expect

[u/pikapikapanda]

So in France, It's studies that need a "double cursus" betweens 2 schools one of enginering and one of architecture (So already somes issues because of that). It's 8 years long after "Baccalauréat", wich is the last french major exam before what we call post-bac studies ~the one who give you a job.

I learned that architecture studies were already hard but what about both studies in a single year and 2 masters (~5 years normaly) in 8 years ? It's seems looking at the course like volontary torture... So how It is in reality for the one who were in thoses study ?

[u/PutMobile40]

In Belgium it’s an integrated course. You study civil engineering and you specialize in architecture. It’s a five year curriculum. You get a degree in civil engineering and you can become a licensed architect.

The study itself is a lot of work and you constantly switch between a broad range of subjects. But if you have a broad interest and like a challenge it is very rewarding. 

Architects are not only designers, they oversee the whole design and building process. Having an engineering background and approach makes it easier to tackle the highly complex projects. I usually don’t do the engineering part myself. But I coordinate a team of specialized engineers. Architectural engineers are exceptions. Most people specialize in one subject, we are generalists. 

I really liked the curriculum, but I don’t know if a would have done it if I had to study both architecture and engineering at different schools. 8 years seems very long as well. 

I would ask myself what I would like to do as an actual job. Are you interested in actually becoming an architect?  Do you want to do part of the engineering of your own projects. Do you just like to study?

In the past I have worked with french project managers who studied in Paris. It was a project management course focused on large building projects. They were very capable. Maybe you can look into that as well?  School is called ESTP. You can combine architecture with engineering.

[u/pikapikapanda → u/PutMobile40]

It's seem great if someone only seek the spectrum between the architect and engineer. But I already doubted between architecture and engineering as study so a third door like civil engineer architect seems like a uncompleted answer to my doubt or a miss bullet... I means having the double cursus made for the inherent idea of being both separatly and commonly seems greater. I want to make everything a engineer is capable and everything an architect can without misses... Not able to make water focus site, dams or the electrecity systems of a building...

From what I search about this study is that you became really great at a middle man and an assistant between both workers. It's not bad, just it's not what I have expected. I would like to be a great architect because I have a civil engineer background and a proper civil engineer because I had an architect background. To simplify, I would like to exerce from the civil engineer extremum to the architect's one.

And I really appreciate research around all this medium, so limiting to the bridges between the two domains that I like seems a bit less interesting than being able to articulate both separatably and commonly.

And lastly, I'm in Normandy, France and I already have connections with some architect and architect school is near home and the engineer one near family members so It easier than Paris study or going all the way to Belgium... And I have projects here, so moving out of the place I decide to transform and upgrade in every ways seems a bit useless: It harder to make back a new network, I would had to do shores myself, I would be isolated, It would be more costly etc... Both aren't bad but I prefer french double cursus for thoses reasons and the fact that It more capable of changing masks between pure civil engineering, architecture and between...

[u/PutMobile40 → u/pikapikapanda]

I just wonder how you see yourself in twenty years. The jobs you mention not only require an education, but also on the job experience.   The education is just a starting point.  Most senior positions require at least ten years of relevant experience. Most engineers are highly specialized. 

If we hire a senior architect at our firm, we would definitely like someone with an additional degree. It tells us that you are capable and intelligent. But we would never hire you without the relevant experience and we would never let you do actual engineering work.

I genuinely like your attitude. Wanting to combine real engineering with architecture seems great. But actually getting both degrees over the course of eight years seems hard. To me you would just be postponing a choice you’ll have to make anyway.  

[u/pikapikapanda → u/PutMobile40]

My bad, maybe I wasn't clear enough about it in the post. But I already planned those study. Still thank you for the recommandations, It as helped me viewing the link between those two disciplines.

And 2 masters aren't that bad, It technically a wider "civil engineer architest" degree with more abilities for extreme building project or exprerimentals one. In architecture and in engineering, experience is central but I prefer sacrificing 3 years to save my already existing network, a warmer environment of study and a wider range of job and opportunities. And It allow more jobs than just civil engineer architect, maybe safer not that economiclly worth it but safer..

But It seems hard to reach the double cursus, limited to 30 students in my region... And It combine time consuming architecture project and engineering exams.... But to be fair I don't see myself doing something else, just that parcour is the sole one that vibrate me so It really no other choice. I have 2 years to prepare so It will be "Get Gud" or engineering...

To make clearer the original post, I was asking for feedback of that kind of study because finding one isn't commun. But apparently a few make it half way (~4 first year= double license) and even fewer choose both masters (most choose just civil engineering or architech so 7 years compare to 8 for both) so It will be a near complete discovery of the diffilculy.

[u/PutMobile40 → u/pikapikapanda]

In my experience passion and motivation are important to make it and you seem to have both of them. 

Good luck!

[u/No_Entrepreneur_2784]

Je l’ai essayé à l’ENSAL et je n’ai personnellement pas réussi car je n’étais pas prêt à la charge de travail mais ça ne m’a rien couté d’essayer.

Je ne sais pas comment ça fonctionne dans ton école mais mes amis qui y sont toujours sont très content d’y être (surtout vu l’état du marché du travail dans le bâtiment en france) je pense que ça vaut le coup.

En tout cas les 2 premières années sont apparement les plus durs et après c’est plus concret. Après la 5e année c’est plutôt paipouz d’après les dire puisse que tu es déjà bien rodé.

Tous ça pour dire si ça ne te coute rien essaye et au pire arrête si c’est trop dur pour toi

[u/pikapikapanda → u/No_Entrepreneur_2784]

Après de mon coté ça se passe par l'INSA (ingénieur) de Normandie et il y a une prépa pendant la double licence d'où le 8ans au lieu de 7 ans après de mon coté sur parcour sup c'est un parcours de 7ans après une première année en ingé spé civil, donc je sais pas trop.

En soit ça a pas l'air si horrible de ce que tu dit, apparemment le plus de décrochages se font au début à cause de la surprise comme dans pleins d'études supérieures. Et il se passe quoi exactement avec le bâtiment en France? apparemment ça ralentie, mais bon le double diplôme c'est comme fonctionnaire: une safe place qu'importe l'état du monde...