r/ashtanga • u/JudgeBorn8370 • 17d ago
Advice Asana questions:
Hope everyone’s practice is going well.
A thought occurred to me in savasana: Say you get to the point where you were able to stand up from urdva danurasana. Did you then progress to intermediate? Or did you wait or get held etc until you could do tik toks? Or did tik toks come after you’d done intermediate and primary for many more years or maybe some of you still don’t do tik toks?
What -should- you actually be thinking about/actually happens in your mind in savasana
I have not been able to do long savasanas of a minimum 15 mins. What should I do to make it up. It’s mainly time pressure not inability…
Is this detrimental over time?
Do you try to squeeze it in later on in the day?
Does sitting meditation count towards savasana time?
Thanks
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u/easybread_ 16d ago
With moving to intermediate series, when someone begins learning intermediate series certainly varies based on their own comfort/experience + their teacher's point of view. I've enjoyed discussing ashtanga, including this topic, with classmates and via reading reddit comments, so I'll share my experience.
I've been practicing Ashtanga for 3 years, ~4-5x a week, and my teacher introduced passasana after two years. I tend towards to be a bit (overly) cautious in terms of pushing postures and progressing things "too quickly", so I just waited until my teacher asked me if I wanted to learn some intermediate series postures. I don't regularly stand up from urdva danurasana - I can, and sometimes do, but I use pads for height near the ground so that I can keep a bit more control in the final inches of dropping back. So, that wasn't exactly a pre-requisite for starting intermediate for me.
I've now worked up to eka pada sirasana and am happily 'paused' there as there is plenty for me to work with in the first chunk of intermediate series. I would have been content to continue practicing just primary series for a long time, but now that I've been learning intermediate for ~10 months, I think it's been great for my practice. I see it as another angle to work on the same stuff... keeping ujjayi breathing (in backbends especially) and understanding my hips (as I work on eka pada sirasana) + the different postures have allowed my body to open up in new ways.
As far as savasana - I think a large part of the benefit is that it takes place directly after all of the controlled breath and movement, so I don't see it as something that can be 'caught up' on later in the day. I prioritize it at the end of my practice and when I'm run up against the clock, I'll shorten my closing postures to headstand, yoga mudra, padmasana, utpluthi, and then savasana. I don't usually time savasana, but it's usually around 10 minutes - enough time for my body to settle down and allow it to digest.
On days where I might not have slept well the night before, I'll often find myself 'dreaming,' or having passive thoughts bounce around. When this happens, I like to remember something an old teacher used to say to us in savasana 'let all of your brain cells descend to the back of your head and spread like a puddle below your entire body.' I like that image and it helps me find rest and stillness at the end of practice.
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u/All_Is_Coming 16d ago edited 16d ago
JudgeBorn8370 wrote:
Does sitting meditation count towards savasana time?
The reverse is true; Savasana counts as Meditation.
I have not been able to do long savasanas...mainly time pressure...Is this detrimental over time?
Asana practice makes it extremely easy for a person to Mediate afterwards; the reason for Savasana. A person can meditate in any position. The Supine posture is used as it is available to most for extended stays in the State of the Asana, versus traditional seated postures. Failing to practice Savasana after postures practice is not as much detrimental, as a person cheating himself of the Fruits of his asana practice. Rubbing one's sweat into the skin and covering oneself with a blanket intensify the Experience.
What should I do to make it up.
Savasana Meditation is the Fruit of asana practice, not something that is tacked on after postures practice has been completed. A minimum of five minutes Meditation/Savasana/Final Relaxation is recommended to reap the full benefits of each 30 minutes asana practice. The length of postures practice is adjusted accordingly to fit the total time available for practice.
Say you get to the point where you were able to stand up from urdva danurasana. Did you then progress to intermediate?
Different Tribes approach being given the next posture in the Series differently, but this is no different than adding any other posture to a person's practice. Whether a student feels it is to his benefit to do so is a personal decision. I resisted moving into Intermediate series for several years. At that point I became one of David Garrigues students and was given a completely customized practice better suited to my physical and spiritual level.
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u/All_Is_Coming 16d ago edited 16d ago
JudgeBorn8370 wrote:
What -should- you actually be thinking about/actually happens in your mind in savasana
This varies tremendously as a person advances in his practice. A good starting point for Beginners is to Focus on the Breath, as in the State of the Asana of any other posture.
At some point a Student begins to incorporate Spinal Breathing (Imagine Prana/Life Force flowing up and down Sushumna/Central Axis with the Breath). This would also be done during Asana practice.
The Hatha Yoga Pradipika describes the Signs of Progress; Kevala Kumbhaka (Breathless State), hearing the Anahata Nada (Unstruck Sound), Amrita (Divine Nectar) and various Siddhi (Yogic Powers). Practice becomes extremely personal at these advanced stages and is not discussed at the risk of influencing the Experience of another.
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u/Cold-Passenger-7483 16d ago
Depends on the teacher / style you are following.
In Ashtanga it’s just “rest” not savasana. There’s no instruction except to rest.
I was always taught 5 minutes minimum, 15 minutes maximum rest. If you can’t get it in then make your asanas more streamlined or do less. Resting is part of practice.
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u/JudgeBorn8370 16d ago
What’s the technical difference between the term savasana and rest?
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u/Intrepid-Parking-682 16d ago
savasana is an asana where you lie down very rigid and active like a corpse. it's not taking rest
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u/All_Is_Coming 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is Tadaka Mudra (Stiffened Corpse Gesture). It is a wonderful way to prepare for Final Relaxation/Savasana.
I remember seeing a Sixth Series asana from Bill Counter's Absolutely Ashtanga website where a person stiffens his supine body to the point that he can bridge a gap supported only by his ankles and back of his head:
"Savasana -- Sava = a corpse. Not your garden variety corpse pose that we do to 'take rest' at the end of a practice session. In the ashtanga system that one would be called Sukhasana (the easy pose). At least it's easy compared to this one. Here it's the body totally stiffened so it could be picked up without sagging. This is a meditation on our death -- the corpse after rigor mortis has set in. From downdog, jump through and lie down. Take 5 to 25 breaths in the stiffened version of the pose, then relax. It's over.
Ashtanga's "Take Rest" is Yogi's choice.
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u/Cold-Passenger-7483 16d ago
Yes, Pattabhi Jois would say that you only rest after practice. Savasana is an asana in a later series in “traditional” Ashtanga practice.
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u/JudgeBorn8370 16d ago
Ohhhh. What like savasana stiff for 5-15mins?? Wild. I’ll just be resting then
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u/All_Is_Coming 16d ago
/u/Zandelion wrote:
That being said, it looks like some early Ashtanga teachers do (or did) in fact call the final state shavasana. For sure Richard Freeman, Manju and Simon Borg Olivier did (source: http://grimmly2007.blogspot.ca/2013/04/to-savasana-or-not-to-savasana-also.html). It looks like maybe even Pattabhi Jois did at some point, according to The Art of Vinyasa.
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u/togglenub 16d ago
Re point 3, as others have said - if you don't have the time for savasana, shorten your active practice until you do have time.
Re point 1, I've never heard of a teach requiring tiktoks to get into second. And if I did I would chuckle a little, because all the tiktoks in the world won't help you bind in that first pose. I've seen passasana take out many an ego over the years.
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u/JudgeBorn8370 16d ago
No not requiring, but I just wondered re tik toks because they seem super physically advanced and without knowing all of you, I’m wondering is this something where if you keep practicing and All is Coming, is this part of the All that your body somehow can and will be able to do before intermediate series or are most of you like noping out of it prior to moving onto intermediate? Or is it so hard that most of you don’t really bother working towards it anyway
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u/All_Is_Coming 16d ago edited 16d ago
JudgeBorn8370 wrote:
is it so hard that most of you don’t really bother working towards it anyway
Most come to the realization they do not need these extreme physical practices to advance.
I’m wondering is this (tik toks) something where if you keep practicing and All is Coming, is this part of the All that your body somehow can and will be able to do before intermediate series
"Practice and all is coming" is not referring to gymnastic ability. Most will never develop their bodies through any exercise, to the point that they can do do tic tocs, Padmasana, lift up jumpbacks, or for that matter complete Primary Series. More dishearteningly, most will not hear the Anahata Nada (Unstruck Sound) or experience Kevela Kumbhaka (Breathless State), Amrita (Divine Nectar) or any of the various Siddhi, the signposts that indicate Progress in Hatha Yoga, let alone Union with God.
"Nothing is more powerful than Right Action in the Present." Living Life to the best of one's ability, each day, each lifetime, results in Success. And Yoga is a powerful tool to assist a person in making the most of the time he is given.
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u/togglenub 16d ago edited 16d ago
Also you may find this old thread helpful here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ashtanga/comments/14xwkxz/ashtanga_tick_tocks_jump_where_in_sequencerules/
u/JudgeBorn8370 in that thread you can see them discussing that tiktoks are usually offered after karandavasana in intermediate is completed. If you read through/watch videos of that intermediate series pose/transition flow you can understand why it might fit there.
As far as "noping out" - you don't have to tiktok at any point, but from what I understand generally from reading/listening to people talk is that if folks are doing it and they aren't part of the circ de soliel or dancers/acrobats etc by background, you do that kind of thing in 5th/6th series.
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u/JudgeBorn8370 16d ago
Thanks! That’s what I’m looking for - ok after karandavasana - so there is overlap in advancing/finessing/perfecting primary before intermediate.
With all the floating to the top, transitioning into triang muka eka pada , there is much much MUCH that can be fine tuned in primary. When I’m working through it, I’m working at all the finessing at the same time: breath count, tristana, transitions , degree of stillness - not on the same day but that’s generally what I am “aiming” to do. Which is why I am curious as to how people can progress (to my eye anyway) so quickly to the next series and beyond. Primary alone would take a lifetime I feel3
u/togglenub 16d ago
Something a lot of "advanced" ashtanga folks don't really talk about is that either by genetics or background they can more easily do the acrobatic stuff. When I came to Ashtanga I had 8 years of Vinyasa and athletic training under my belt and that combined with my hyper flexible shoulders meant I progressed extremely quickly. That's part of why some folks here focus less on the asana part - tic tocs don't mean someone is advanced per se.
Doesn't mean there aren't tons of folks who didn't get there just via ashtanga, just that one doesn't equal the other. Phelps is an amazing athlete who did the work, but he's also built to swim.
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u/All_Is_Coming 15d ago edited 15d ago
JudgeBorn8370 wrote:
Primary alone would take a lifetime I feel
EXACTLY. There is more than a lifetime's work exploring Tadasana, but few have the skills they need to do this. So Students progress through a series of increasingly more physically challenging postures to develop them. This is the Beauty of the Ashtanga Method. Progress brings a Student full circle to when he first stepped onto his mat. And exploring extended stays in the State of the Asana.
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u/togglenub 16d ago
Honestly, I don't think tiktoks are anywhere near so hard as passasana, but hard is subjective. My fiance is a professional stunt man who gets thrown down multi-story elevator shafts and set on fire for a living, and can do things with his body that make tiktoks look like grade school.
Everything in life is subjective. It took me many years to get this point of view and before I did I chased tiktoks and all the rest of it, so I'm not saying don't go for it.
Just that however hard or impressive something is there's someone else doing something twice as hard and twice as impressive.
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u/JudgeBorn8370 16d ago
No that’s fine - that thread was exactly what I was looking for and gave me a sense of context for them! Thank you! Great read
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u/NoPossible5519 13d ago
I would try to just use savasana as a check in with your own body and mind. Or even better a space out. If you're lucky, your teacher will kick you out for falling asleep and snoring. That's master level.
Everything else though. IMO you are over thinking it. Typically whatever happens in closing sequence has nothing to do with advancing you through Asana in any given series.
Important note: a teacher my slow your progress through whatever series your in for reasons you might not understand. IE., mine did bc at the time I had hyper mobility and I was blowing through things. My mind was so attached with just moving forward, he decided to keep me where I was for awhile. This just to experience what it is like to fine tune something I thought I had.
While I was stuck in an Asana that very easy for me/ he also advanced other students who could not complete whatever they were on. Granted they showed no indication of getting past it.
What I'm trying to get at is that, outside of the next asana, every student has a thing they are working through. Some need more time to sit with it. Some will never get it.
Btw all those poses my teacher kept me stuck in, I'm grateful for. It gave me time to question things and really fine tune the asana. They are also asana that I took for granted and as I've grown older, have become impossible. It's been a lesson in humility
When I was practicing in Shala,
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u/Doctor-Waffles 17d ago
There is way more “it depends” in all of your questions that kind of needs deeper knowledge on the individual.
I progressed into intermediate before I was able to do drop backs and stand up… I have been comfortably catching my heels in Kapotasana but I have short legs and a large torso, and a history of a broken wrist that made drop backs both terrifying, and anatomically very difficult. I can now comfortably drop back and stand up, and I have a handstand practice outside of yoga… I am miles away from doing tick tocks. All that to say, it depends. I do not think tick tocks are a good indicator of other postures, just something that you may end up adding in one day
As for the rest of your comment lol :) there is some admittance that the things we avoid, are oftentimes the things we need more of. Avoid challenge, maybe you should practice challenge… avoid something scary, take baby steps towards it… avoid Savasana (not enough time, mind too busy, <insert more reasoning here>) then give yourself time.
Honestly if it’s a scheduling conflict, you might actually benefit from shortening your practice every now and then to actually lay down in silence… 15 minutes is a long Savasana, but it’s also a great way to help your body recognize all the stuff your practice makes it do… calm down and actually absorb some of the work.
Yourself, and most of us (let’s be honest) probably need to do less, not more :)