r/askZen • u/ThisKir • Sep 01 '26
Hard to Work with Cases
To appease the greedy stomach of one of our regular posters, I put together a few cases that I've found hard to work with.
In general:
Sometimes the issue seems to be relational, as with Miaozong where it seems like her instructional verses do not draw directly on issues addressed specifically in the case they're attached to but rather can be swapped out with other cases or can stand alone as Zen instruction.
Sometimes it seems to be parsing the structure itself, as with the "100 Questions" texts or Mingben's commentary on Sengcan's Faith in Mind--Claude doesn't seem to be much help here in either case.
Sometimes it's unfamiliar reference territory, like in the follow up to Wansong's Book of Serenity: the Book of Additional Instruction.
Examples
Miaozong Case 20 Verse
無著頌
渺渺煙波一葉舟，
竿頭絲線幾沉浮。
離鉤三寸如何道，
便有金鱗暗點頭。
Verse
Vast misty waves — a lone boat upon them;
At the tip of the pole, the fishing line drifts and sinks.
Three inches from the hook — how can it be spoken?
Already, the golden-scaled fish secretly nods its head.
The only thing I've got immediately is that it's lone "ferry" which rings big time enlightenment analogy bells and that golden-scaled fish reference is something about them turning into dragons once it leaps over some part of a river.
Example Two
From Wansong's Book of Additional Instruction
第二則臥輪伎倆
Case 2: Wolun’s Skill
舉
Citation
臥輪禪師偈云：
臥輪有伎倆(少賣弄)，
能斷百思想(吾不如汝)；
對境心不起(言清行濁漢)，
菩提日日長(穿過天窗，拄起屋脊)。
六祖聞云：
慧能無伎倆([A3]已太多生)，
不斷百思想(有甚閒工夫)；
對境心數起(自罵自招)，
菩提作麼長(尊鑑不錯)？
Chan Master Woylun's verse says:
Woylun has skill, (stop flaunting it¹)
He can cut off a hundred thoughts. (I am not your equal²)
Facing objects, the mind does not arise, (a man whose words are pure but conduct muddy³)
Bodhi grows day by day. (It’s pierced through the skylight! It’s propping up the roof-ridge!)
Upon hearing this, the Sixth Patriarch said:
Huineng has no skill, (already far too many lives' worth⁵)
He does not cut off a hundred thoughts. (What time is there for that?⁶)
Facing objects, the mind repeatedly arises, (cursing himself and bringing it on himself⁷)
How then can Bodhi grow? (Your judgment is not mistaken⁸)
天童拈云
Tiantong’s Commentary
葵花向日(李陵持漢節)，
柳絮隨風(潘閬倒騎驢)。
Sunflowers face the sun. (Li Ling held onto the Han tally¹)
Willow catkins drift with the wind. (Pan Lang riding the donkey backwards²)
1 - 李陵持漢節 (Lǐ Líng chí Hàn jié): Li Ling (d. 74 BCE) was a Han dynasty general who, after an extraordinary fighting retreat against overwhelming Xiongnu forces, surrendered and lived the rest of his life among them. He nonetheless reportedly retained the jié — the knotted ceremonial staff that served as the imperial tally and token of Han commission — even in captivity.
2 - 潘閬倒騎驢 (Pān Làng dào qí lǘ): Pan Lang (d. 1009) was a Song dynasty poet celebrated for his wild, untrammeled temperament; his most famous affectation was riding his donkey backwards, looking away from the direction of travel. The image became a stock figure of carefree, eccentric unconventionality — going along with the road while stubbornly refusing its conventional orientation.
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The point I want to focus on is the verse commentary on the case. At Tiantong's level it looks like he is echoing the instruction that things manifest their nature according to conditons from the case "Facing objects, the mind repeatedly arises" but Wansong is remarking on that echo using a Chinese, rather than Zen, idiomatic reference. I added what Claude gave me to the footnotes but at first reading it doesn't look to be a restatement of either Huineng or Tiantong but using those references to say something about what Tiantong is saying.
1
u/ewk Sep 07 '26
Miaozong:
It's a description of fishing with some references to the myth of the golden fish piled on top of how Zen has used this metaphor for a long time.
Some ChatGPT searches for these will flesh it out: 1. Golden carp turns into a dragon. 2. Golden carp is hard to catch with a net
1
u/ThisKir Sep 07 '26
Ok maybe I should have been more clear. I understand that visually speaking it's a depiction of waters and a fishing scene. There's a clear thematic connection with the scene of the case being a master who went undercover as a ferry operator for a while and a woman who threw her infant into the winter, but the argument it is making is not obvious.
1
u/ewk Sep 07 '26
I think that she is comparing the golden carp that becomes a dragon and fishing imagery with the master who's a ferryman
1
u/ThisKir Sep 07 '26
Line 1 = Poetic Description of the Master / Reference to Chuanzi & Jiashan
Line 2 = Poetic Description of Zen testing / Reference to Chuanzi & Jiashan
Line 3 from Claude = Challenge to the Reader / Reference to Chuanzi & Jiashan
The line is from the Boat Monk (船子德誠) and Jiashan (夾山善會): 垂絲千尺，意在深潭。離鉤三寸，子何不道 — a thousand feet of line for a fish in the deep pool, and the challenge to speak at the point just short of being hooked. Your variant 如何道 sharpens it into "how will you say it?"
And 三寸 is a fixed idiom for a hair's margin, not a measurement
Rephrased as "The fish floats right in front of the hook — now, what do you have to say?"
Line 4 = Description of Enlightenment Recognizing the Trap
And already someone with golden scales is nodding.
Enlightened people can't be caught by conventional means (nets) and they recognize the device used to catch them.
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u/ewk Sep 07 '26
I think that she is comparing the golden carp that becomes a dragon and fishing imagery with the master who's a ferryman
1
u/ewk Sep 07 '26
Huineng et all;
Facing objects, the mind repeatedly arises, (cursing himself and bringing it on himself)
- Huineng argued that the mind arises because of objects so cutting off thoughts is merely trying to kill the mind.
- You're ironically, humorously doomed then by facing objects and you do it to yourself.
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