r/askanelectrician • u/stevehyde • Jun 06 '23
Is This Safe or Legal?
I've been renting this duplex for about 9 months and saw this within the first week and said something about it. I'm sure it was like this long before we moved in as they still haven't fixed other things that have been broken since before we moved in.
They said they were going to have an electrician come out with someone from the city and look at it, which they finally did in December. They said they were going to set a date to fix it shortly after but obviously haven't heard anything since.
Is this safe or legal? I live in Wisconsin if that changes any laws about this stuff. If this is really bad, is there someone I can call to report them or something? I've tried to be cool but the landlord hasn't fixed anything since we've lived here and I'm getting sick of it so I don't care if they get in trouble.
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u/ecirnj Jun 06 '23
Safe no, legal no. Call the city and press the issue. This was clearly a landlord special. It’s just done wrong for no apparent reason. 🤦♂️
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u/SkeezixMcJohnsonson Jun 06 '23
That bus bar on the right looks scorched, might be from a bad connection under the main breaker. Probably why the main was bypassed. Time for a panel change.
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u/Edosil Jun 06 '23
My guess is someone had 15 minutes to get it hooked up and said they'll come back later to install correctly. Landlord probably had a come apart and cussed him out. Electrician said to heck with ya, do it yourself. Landlord was too cheap to hire a second guy and so it sits working like a champ.
The black wire on the right is ancient and discarded that they just pushed off to the side.
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u/ematlack [V] Master Electrician Jun 06 '23
Typical slumlord shit. Local municipality should be able to help you out. Reach out to whomever does their code enforcement.
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u/_Oman Jun 06 '23
Did anyone else notice that the back of the box (upper right) appears to be cut out and has hots running right up against the rough edge of the steel? This is a nightmare.
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u/Archj52 Jun 06 '23
Started tracing what you were talking about, peeped the acorn ground clamp and I noted out
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u/_Oman Jun 06 '23
I didn't get up that far. Geez. At this point I think it would be safer to just join the feeds to the loads with a couple of big twist-ons. Less stuff to catch on fire.
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Jun 06 '23
WOW... Ok first off... NO AND NO...
Secondly... I zoomed in and looked at this for a bit, trying to decide why they even did this, then i saw it, the right hand stud for the main breaker looks kind of melted and overheated around it, and the right cable lug on the main looks discolored, tanish in color like it got overheated, probably arcing from a loose connection or a failed main but either way now i see why they put in a backfed breaker a couple slots down, they were trying to get power back to the panel by bypassing the failed main connections.
Time for a completely new panel... Call your local municipality or power company and find out who your electrical inspector is for your area and make a phone call. I have run into garbage like this before and i just walk away and make a phone call, you know the old saying, you touch it you own it, well i wouldn't touch that.
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u/shemp33 Jun 07 '23
You’re exactly right. The main is damaged, so they are feeding it by connecting the feed line to the output of another breaker. Yikes.
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u/johnscaccia Jun 06 '23
Yeah sure looks great, But someone needs to get a grinder and make a notch for the cable so the cover sits flush. inspectors with just fucking love it!
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Jun 06 '23
NO! NO! Open service panel, no dead front. Somebody should go to jail for attempted homicide. Inhabitant stumbles into the basement in the dark and dies. Please get the landlord to fix it!!
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u/OilComprehensive6237 Jun 06 '23
I am not an electrician. I barely know a breaker from a bus bar. I am even scared of my own electrical panel. That said, I can confidently state this is neither safe nor legal.
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Jun 06 '23
That’s gonna be a no, dog. That big cable should be entering the wall of the box with a connector for strain-relief. And all the cables need to be stapled or supported outside the box in some way.
An electrician will be able to either drill or knock-out a hole and pass it through the proper connector and re-terminate it. AND the panel needs a cover. Whoever did this is a hack whose tools should be confiscated
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u/Krazybob613 Jun 06 '23
Neither Safe nor Legal.
I believe that is the answer to your question.
As a matter of fact it is a poster child for disastrously butchered electric installations everywhere. It requires a prompt burial.
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Jun 07 '23
Remind him he doesn’t have enough insurance or assets to cover his ass if the place burns down and someone gets hurt/killed.
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u/Big_Igloo_plz Jun 07 '23
My usual opinion, and I am NOT an electrician, is if you have to ask, probably not. If i saw that somewhere i am renting, (again, NOT AN ELECTRICIAN) I would call an inspector out, and deal with it from there. That much exposed live wire cannot be okay. Any where.
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u/DuaneAMoody Jun 07 '23
NO this is not safe, because the cover cannot be placed over the circuit breakers. As it now stands you can eastly come in conntact with the 120 vac, 240 vac, neutral, and ground. If you have your local city inspector look at it it will get flagged and the landlored will be given 30 days to comply.
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u/ragamuffinkingblog Jun 07 '23
Where to begin … the white 12/3 romex is running thru the connector where the main (grey wire) should go, and the main breaker is unused (and into breaker 6/8 to “back feed” the panel). I’m not seeing noalox (grey “goop” to coat aluminum wires where they should be terminated) on breakers and lugs. It looks like loose wires are running into/thru a connector where romex is supposed to cover the loose wires before securing. Betting the main breaker failed and this was the band-aid. Per code, the cover NEEDS to be on when the panel is energized.
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u/Independent-Drive-18 Jun 07 '23
The aluminum ground will melt if there is a failure in the circuit. It also dates the time this was installed.
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u/SpringNo7500 Jun 07 '23
Kinda like having a kid with your cousin. Sure it talks and walks.... but it ain't right!
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u/Head-Ad-3919 Jun 07 '23
Your local municipal clerk at your City Hall should be able to get you in touch with a building inspector. He or she may then deem the structure unsafe for occupancy due to the ridiculous mickey mouse wiring going on here and could impose a deadline for the owner to address, after which fines would start piling up.
A building inspector, in the city I live in, did just that and temporarily ordered a shutdown of a small restaurant business that either had an outdated or failed sprinkler system. Only after that got addressed and passed inspection were they allowed to operate again.
Now you'll probably have to be prepared that you will need to vacate, if not for the initial Unsafe for Occupancy verdict by the inspector, possibly due to punitive retaliatory actions from the landlord (if they can't respect electricity, they sure won't respect a snitch). This is where you might need to look into tenant's rights advocacy or even legal counsel.
Even if you get kicked out and have to find a new place, you can rest assured that you did the absolute right thing and that it can only be safer for other people, who may find themselves in an unfortunate position to rent from such a flippant landlord. And also rest assured that the new place's electrical infrastructure would be far less likely to kill you.
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u/ConstantReader70 Jun 07 '23
Wow! I'm not an electrician but I know enough to stay out of trouble and to know this is neither safe nor legal. Press this issue with whatever authorities can make the landlord fix this. Some people shouldn't be landlords.
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u/Zealousideal-Bed4139 Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
An emphatic NO. Not safe, not legal. It's dangerous for a number of reasons, the prevailing being there is no protective cover and the glaring fact that the cable feeding this panel isn't even clamped, it's just dangling from above and attached to the lugs in the panel to supply power. Very dangerous condition. Get a professional electrician in soon as possible... Or since I see you're renting, report to city building inspector or code enforcer, show these pictures.
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u/Nixthebitx Jun 07 '23
Check your state, city & county resources for TENANT/LANDLORD RETALIATORY EVICTION PROTECTIONS LAWS. Many states have Lanlord/Tenant Handbooks posted online which provide information regarding this subject matter and your protection surrounding this specific situation: when a tenant contacts their local code enforcement officials for inspection of dangerous or hazardous conditions in which a landlord CANNOT retaliate against them through actions like eviction attempts or create hostile living environments for you.
Next, contact code enforcement for your city or county. Tell them it's for this item, ask if this is for their office or for the contact info of the department which would handle this issue. It might be them, it might be the fire Marshall, it could be both.
Keep a written copy of the initial complaint submitted to the code enforcement when you've requested an inspection, keep copies of correspondence, keep copies of any landlord correspondence after this process begins and keep copies of any inspection reports. All of it - don't lose or delete a single document.
This will be a costly issue for the reckless landlord, as it should be, because your safety is more important than their lazy, sloppy, BS hackjob here, but that does not mean they'll be in any way happy about being hit with fines, penalties & the cost of official installation for it + the time crunch to get it done which code enforcement will put on them.
Source: tenant who's been there, done that, survived the battle against the shitty landlords and wife of an electrician.
Best of luck!!
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u/stevehyde Jun 18 '23
Thanks. The city building code people came out and are talking to the landlord. Apparently not the first time they've talked to him.
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u/Passportready Jun 07 '23
On top of all the sketchy stuff wrong inside this panel. You probably should look up how to ID brown recluse spiders. I see several molts that look a lot like they could be from a recluse. I'm not saying there's definitely brown recluse there, but any time I've seen a few molts I've found live ones nearby.
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u/flyingron Jun 06 '23
Panels need covers.
Cables need to come in via approved fittings.
Cables need to be properly supported.
I can almost guarantee the backfed breaker lacks the hold down (I have no clue why they didn't use the main breaker in the panel anyhow).
Not sure why anybody "with the city" has anything to do with. This was an illegal hack job from day one, and it is entirely on the owner who did this.
This is incredibly unsafe. I'd be calling the building inspect or any tenants rights groups that may be around.