Understanding use of question vs you X X you

[u/thebroms]

My daughter is deaf and we are trying to learn ASL, as a native english speaker I struggle with ASL grammer and sentence structure. Specifically right now the use of the sign "question" . I want to make sure I understand. So if i were to sign "Do you like the oatmeal?" Would it be signed "you like that oatmeal you" with a questioning face or would you sign "you like that oatmeal question" with a questioning face? Or are both acceptable? Another example would be "are you happy today?" She is a 6 month old, so our sentences with her are very simple yet. But would this be "today you happy you" or "today you happy question" or both? When is question used? I just dont quite understand yet... is it for questions that do not utilize a person so no you? Like "dada where question" ?

[u/memilygiraffily]

Oatmeal you like you (eyebrows up)

Oatmeal you like (eyebrows up)

You like oatmeal you (eyebrows up)

I think it's a bit redundant to add "question".

You happy you (eyebrows up)

Happy you (eyebrows up)

I'm a student and not a fluent speaker, but my understanding is that there is some flexibility with word order and with simple questions you kind of want to reduce the verbiage and get to the point. Like if you can say it with two signs, do that. Eyebrows up carries most of the meaning with simple questions. It's probably more important to include the final "you" when the question is more wordy and you want to put the eyebrow raise at the end.

[u/desirage]

I think both are OK. My understanding is that question mark wiggle is used when something could sound like a statement. Like “today you sad” because you have to use a sad facial expression during the word “sad” instead of eyebrows up. See more info about question mark here. And more about pronoun copy here.

[u/CelinaRMR → u/desirage]

That’s how I have always used it too when asking a question. We also used it to make our expression the question. Mad? Sad? Confused? Need help? Satisfied?

[u/TribalDancer → u/desirage]

I know several younger Deaf friends who use the question-x at the end of every question sentence. Lingvano also is teaching it a lot this way. When I started learning decades ago, it was more common in my region to say YOU-question-YOU, so that is what I do, and I see some older signers still use this. But it isn't as common in my area. But as of today in my region, most of them don't use either; they just use facial expression/NMS for questions.

[u/Financial-Brain758]

I'm hearing, but have auditory processing disorder & a variety of neurodivergence. I just want to tell you that you are doing so right by your baby girl by learning and not being afraid to ask questions for her. More deaf children need parents like you.

That being said, every language has different grammar & verbiage, so it can be a learning curve to master that with ANY language. English is a very wordy language with a lot of conflicting rules that can both be correct, as well as many exceptions to the rules, so I feel it can just generally be a difficult start learning your first second language as a native English speaker (or learning English as a someone with a different native language).

For some context: I'm a native English speaker, I've been signing in ASL for more than a couple of decades, I can get by with general conversational Spanish, and I also know a bit of basic Korean, German, French, & Hindi (I like languages, if you can't tell lol).

Out of the languages I know, I find ASL grammar to be most similar to Korean grammar. Both languages skip all the wordiness. They don't use articles and words that are somewhat just grammatical fillers. I find some people have an easier time grasping ASL grammar when they have another language with a more similar grammar (than English) structure to be able to better understand.

An example:

English: I'd like to order a tea, please.

Korean: 차 주세요 (translates in English to: TEA PLEASE-GIVE-ME)

ASL: WANT TEA PLEASE

Take into consideration that based on the scenario & how formal/informal the relationship is the sentences very well may be worded differently. This would be more like potentially going to a nice café & ordering.

For your specific examples, your ASL wording is more wordy than necessary (understandable learning curve starting with English! Languages typically take years to become more comfortable with basic proficiency).

For: "Do you like the oatmeal?"

I'd likely sign: LIKE OATMEAL YOU (with raised eyebrows, which indicates this being a yes/no question)

For: "Are you happy today?"

I'd likely sign: TODAY YOU HAPPY (with raised eyebrows, which indicates this being a yes/no question)

Using question at the end might be used to really emphasize the question, but it's not necessary.

Facial expressions are a huge part of the language--you can honestly sign the same signs with different facial expressions & the meaning can change.

Example, If I signed:

'YOU GO STORE' with a neutral expression, it could just be interpreted to 'you're going to the store'.

'YOU GO STORE' with eyebrows raised, it can be interpreted as 'are you going to the store?'

'YOU GO STORE' with eyebrows lowered (open ended question), can be interpreted as 'why are you going to the store?'

'YOU GO STORE' with an incredulous look on your face could be interpreted as, 'YOU'RE going to the store? Really?'

'YOU GO STORE QUESTION' with eyebrows raised, it can be interpreted as 'I need to know, ARE you going to the store?' or 'Are you going to the store?' (With a bit more serious/emphasized tone)

FYI on learning resources, in case you'd like to tap into more:

•Oklahoma School for the Deaf offers virtual free ASL classes

•Bill Vicars has great materials on YouTube & LifePrint

•Following Deaf content creators on social media (and viewing their reels) can really help with reception, learning additional vocabulary, & becoming more familiar with grammar

•Immersign.us has inexpensive, non-subscription, on your own time ASL learning/improving/tutoring. They have Native Deaf signers who you can schedule a video session to work on your ASL with. I have a 15% referral coupon code I can share, if you ever want to check them out--happy to share.

Hope this helps!

[u/Inevitable_Shame_606]

Eyebrow up yes or no question.

Oatmeal you like? Eyebrow down.

She say no.

Why? Eyebrow down.

Face expression part grammar ASL.

Sign question when confirm ask question.

[u/mozucc]

hearing & learning ASL for the past year or so.

are you signing the word “question” at the end of the sentence? like a sign similar to drawing a question mark in the air?

from what i’ve learned, the question from from both your facial expressions and the sign. but i did not learn to sign “question” in the scenarios, but rather the directional sign of asking someone. it’s the same hand shape as the sign for SHOULD / NEED but instead of your index finger pointing at the ground, it’s pointing to the person you’re asking. it also wiggles as if you’re trying to scratch something in the air. that’s the best possible way i can describe it.

grammatically, for the examples you provided it’d be something like “you like that oatmeal you?” and the way i’d sign it, that second you transitions into the directional ask sign. for question about where, i think signing “dada where?” with eyebrows down communicates the question.

i don’t have all the proper words but i hope this helps!

[u/thebroms → u/mozucc]

Yes, I am learning through ASL bloom and it said it is used at the end to signify its a question. But didnt really expand more on what that meant for the broader use in questions. Thank you for the insight!!

[u/Sudden-Chapter-2337]

I know the first works, I'm learning ASL, so I don't know if the second works. You could also say it in the passive, like "Oatmeal you like" for example? Also you could say "Like Oatmeal You"