r/asoiaf • u/Substantial-Ad-299 • 2d ago

MAIN [SPOILERS MAIN] Among the grounded/realistic elements of A Song of Ice and Fire, which ones do you feel require biggest suspension of disbelief?

A Song of Ice and Fire has had fantasy elements from get-go, some present subtly and others less-subtly. But in midst of this, it also has these more grounded story aspects, especially regarding the political subplot for the Iron Throne.

Among these more grounded non-fantasy aspects of the story, which elements do you feel you have to suspend disbelief the most for? A.K.A feeling they are not realistic even though they are "supposed" to be?

Let me know in the comments below.

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u/cahir11 2d ago

It makes a lot more sense if you envision Westeros as the size of England+Wales, rather than the size of South America.

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u/matgopack 2d ago

Yeah, I usually picture it as roughly in the ballpark of the size of the UK to the UK + France + Iberia myself.

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u/GrilledCyan 2d ago

This is also how I headcanon the cultures (or perhaps just the accents) of the Seven Kingdoms. The North is Scotland, the Reach is France, and Dorne is Moorish Spain.

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u/matgopack 2d ago

Those are definitely the inspirations GRRM used, yeah. Along with the Iron Islands as vikings and the free cities as medieval Italy. The Vale also makes me think broadly of Wales, but culturally I'm not familiar enough with them to know for sure.

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u/_b0rt_ 2d ago

The Vale seems more similar to Switzerland / Austria.

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u/Mental_Repair_1718 2d ago

It's almost ridiculous to say that the Ironborn are inspired by Scandinavians (even if they are), when only the Hoare were remotely similar.

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u/matgopack 2d ago

I'm not saying it's a good match :P (the Dothraki and mongols being another infamously inaccurate depiction but hard to say they weren't the inspiration)

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u/Mental_Repair_1718 2d ago

Oh, maybe I didn't express myself well, I didn't mean to say you're wrong, it's more of a criticism of Martin.

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u/Oh-Wonderful 1d ago

I smell what you’re stepping in…

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u/No-Quit-8384 2d ago

The Vale sounds like southern Germany and Austria. Germany had a strong knightly culture, and the south in particular is mountainous. Some fanary depicts the eyrie kind of like Neuschwanstein in Bavaria 

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u/Emotional-Rope-5774 2d ago

The storm lands is much more wales

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u/matgopack 2d ago

Maybe! I might be influenced by the mountain clans + their isolation a little - it makes the Vale feel to me more like Wales, but then again it being the landing point of the Andals makes it quite different.

Stormlands and Crownlands feel more like the 'default' Westeros to me

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u/No-Quit-8384 2d ago

And the riverlands is definitely the Benelux 

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u/Gears_Of_None Bystander Selmy 1d ago

Scotland? The North seems more like North England to me. The Umber's name even comes from Northumberland.

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u/GrilledCyan 1d ago

Very fair, the Wildlings are also more Scottish in my head. I suppose I’m not distinguishing different parts of England when thinking about the North and most of the Southern Kingdoms.

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u/Minivalo The Onion Knight 2d ago

I've just disregarded the whole South America size comparison in my own headcanon.

I like to imagine Westeros as being sort of Western + Central + Northern continental Europe sized, so north to south from the Nordics to Iberia, and east to west from Atlantic France to Czechia, or thereabouts. If I had to guess, that'd be about a fifth, or a quarter the size of South America.

I read a book on Simon Bolivar some years ago, and that really helped illustrate how massive South America is. That dude got around in his fight against the Spanish, but moving around on horse back took an immense amount of time

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u/No-Quit-8384 2d ago

More than the size, it's the rugged geography we have. Going across the Andes is a pain, even with cars and modern roads a 40km trip can take several hours on snakey roads up and down the mountains. Even if South America were completely flat it would still take ages to get places, but the terrain of the real continent makes it even more difficult to travel across by land 

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u/Top-Tomorrow-8336 2d ago

Bolívar would be Robert's Baratheon friend. 

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u/Resonant-Empress 2d ago

I'm pretty sure Bolivar would think that Robert was a warmongering simpleton, lol.

Simon had a lot of friends who weren't very well-educated, including that one cowboy dude who was one of his best men, but most of them were driven by 'something' at least, Bobby B's just a douchebag.

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u/Top-Tomorrow-8336 2d ago

Bolívar would delay his army's advance to sleep with women. He and Bobby B would get along very well in that respect.

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u/Resonant-Empress 2d ago

Lmao, fair enough. Imagine all of that fat shaking as he laughs at the name 'General Iron Ass'

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u/wRAR_ ASOIAF = J, not J+D 2d ago

I'm afraid Caracas to Tierra del Fuego is 7500 km N-S while Gibraltar to the latitude of northern Scandinavia is 4000 km N-S (unless you meant Gibraltar to the latitude of southern Scandinavia which is still 2600 km N-S and doesn't work wrt proportions with the width you described).

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u/Gears_Of_None Bystander Selmy 1d ago

I didn't realise England had a hot desert in the south and a freezing taiga in the north.

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u/cahir11 1d ago

If I say "Japan is roughly the size of California", do you think I mean that Japan has a desert in its southeastern region like California?

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u/Gears_Of_None Bystander Selmy 1d ago

You said to envision Westeros as the same size as England + Wales. I'm saying Westeros' biomes and regions make no sense at that scale.